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Who do you want to be the 2020 Democratic Nominee? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe "the liberal who fights busing" Biden |
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27 | 1.40% |
| Bernie "please don't die" Sanders |
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1017 | 52.69% |
| Cory "charter schools" Booker |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Kirsten "wall street" Gillibrand |
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24 | 1.24% |
| Kamala "truancy queen" Harris |
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59 | 3.06% |
| Julian "who?" Castro |
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7 | 0.36% |
| Tulsi "gay panic" Gabbard |
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25 | 1.30% |
| Michael "crimes crimes crimes" Avenatti |
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22 | 1.14% |
| Sherrod "discount bernie" Brown |
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21 | 1.09% |
| Amy "horrible boss" Klobuchar |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Tammy "stands for america" Duckworth |
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48 | 2.49% |
| Beto "whataburger" O'Rourke |
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32 | 1.66% |
| Elizabeth "instagram beer" Warren |
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284 | 14.72% |
| Tom "impeach please" Steyer |
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4 | 0.21% |
| Michael "soda is the devil" Bloomberg |
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9 | 0.47% |
| Joseph Stalin |
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287 | 14.87% |
| Howard "coffee republican" Schultz |
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10 | 0.52% |
Jay "nobody cares about climate change  " Inslee |
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13 | 0.67% |
| Pete "gently caress the homeless" Butt Man |
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17 | 0.88% |
| Total: | 1930 votes | ||
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LionArcher posted:It’s fun watching a lot of you being inherently racist against Harris (holding her to a standard that Bernie fails at) but not shocking considering she’s an articulate measured black woman who’s actually done something in the last 25 years. Her speech today was straight Bitch she talks about how she's big on fixing the cops and yet as the attorney general she enabled them gently caress off
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Jan 28, 2019 02:49
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. Yes, she has issues that have been brought up, but it’s one or two things that are going to be addressed considering all the trolls are already hammering her with it. Online on twitter im seeing a lot of women, and men fired up because of today. It’s also going to be fun watching this thread melt down over it if she wins the nomination 
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Kamala Harris is probably a garbage cop BUT a huge chunk of the opposition to her is gonna be driven by racism and sexism and that's just gonna be a thing Yeah but just asserting that as a given when people are discussing the things she said and how they line up with her record is lovely
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Jan 28, 2019 02:50
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Kamala Harris is probably a garbage cop BUT a huge chunk of the opposition to her is gonna be driven by racism and sexism and that's just gonna be a thing I dunno; I'm mainly seeing Withers pump her and black twitter correctly pointing out her heinous record at this point.
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Jan 28, 2019 02:51
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Every election cycle is gonna have your LionArchers, those that care about checking the ID boxes above all else.
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Jan 28, 2019 02:53
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I think this is a pretty fair take on Harris’s law enforcement record that tries to look at it from all sides https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/1/23/18184192/kamala-harris-president-campaign-criminal-justice-record
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Jan 28, 2019 02:55
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It's p. weird to assume black people don't have political agency based on policy and will instead vote for another black person reflexively.
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Jan 28, 2019 02:55
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theblackw0lf posted:I think this is a pretty fair take on Harris’s law enforcement record that tries to look at it from all sides Nah; it's just the standard succ-dem tropes of SHE WAS CARRYING OUT HER VOTERS' WISHES and SHE HAD TO PROVE HER HARSHNESS BONA-FIDES BC SHE'S BLACK.
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Jan 28, 2019 02:58
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Willa Rogers posted:Nah; it's just the standard succ-dem tropes of SHE WAS CARRYING OUT HER VOTERS' WISHES and SHE HAD TO PROVE HER HARSHNESS BONA-FIDES BC SHE'S BLACK. I don’t think that really reflects the article. There are quite a few instances where it looks at the Harris defense, and then says, in effect “even if true, she could have done more”. Like this quote:Harris’s supporters argue that Harris likely wasn’t closely involved in these cases because Justice Department policy didn’t require state lawyers to seek approval from the attorney general. As Harris said at a campaign event, “There are cases … where there were folks that made a decision in my office and they had not consulted me, and I wish they had.” But Harris could have changed department policy and become more hands-on in pushing reform, if she was willing to risk a potential backlash from the people under her. And I would say that article has even more power to influence because it does take a genuine stab at looking at things from Harris’s perspective, before being critical.
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Jan 28, 2019 03:06
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Majorian posted:Are you going to tell me how I was lying when I said... I would disagree with “every” but a lot of them, yes. I don’t think that’s a lie. The lie was that her speech was “I’m a cop, I’m a cop!” which was total BS, and only someone not just expecting but WANTING to see that would summarize it that way. It was standard center-left poo poo, and if anything she was avoiding getting into the details of her coppery - she knows it’s a liability in the primary.
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Jan 28, 2019 03:12
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Mellow Seas posted:The lie was that her speech was “I’m a cop, I’m a cop!” I didn't say her speech was "I'm a cop, I'm a cop."
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Jan 28, 2019 03:18
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LionArcher posted:It’s fun watching a lot of you being inherently racist against Harris (holding her to a standard that Bernie fails at) but not shocking considering she’s an articulate measured black woman who’s actually done something in the last 25 years. you're all being inherently racist to harris, who talks ~much~ more like a real person than LionArcher expects a black woman to that there sure is a sentence, man
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Jan 28, 2019 03:48
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If these emotions and arguments are what the Dem primary is going to drudge up, which I have a hard time seeing coalesce hard enough behind a single candidate, I'm looking forward to President Trump in 2020.
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Jan 28, 2019 03:58
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LionArcher posted:It’s fun watching a lot of you being inherently racist against Harris (holding her to a standard that Bernie fails at) but not shocking considering she’s an articulate measured black woman who’s actually done something in the last 25 years. Her speech today was straight I'm not going to attack you, but I would like discuss Harris. I assume so far she's your number one pick, yes? I'm curious about your opinion on what you think a Harris presidency would look like. What policy will she fight for and enact? How will she behave to Venezuela, Israel, and any hot spots that pop up? How will she deal with Wall Street, and banks, debt? Will her administration be different from Obama's in goals and direction? I really would be interested in hearing your thoughts on that.
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Jan 28, 2019 03:58
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:you're all being inherently racist to harris, who talks ~much~ more like a real person than LionArcher expects a black woman to I think the 'who has actually done something' is the icing on the cake. I'm not nearly as anti Harris as some here, but let's be honest and admit that her instinct is to be as close to the center as she can get. She may not be a complete Hillary clone, but she tries to angle herself in the same way, and it is worrying were she to pull out the nomination.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:00
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Brony Car posted:If these emotions and arguments are what the Dem primary is going to drudge up, which I have a hard time seeing coalesce hard enough behind a single candidate, I'm looking forward to President Trump in 2020. God willing we are not representative of the whole.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:03
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Majorian posted:I didn't say her speech was "I'm a cop, I'm a cop." Ah geez, must’ve been someone adjacent to you. Sorry about that.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:03
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Brony Car posted:If these emotions and arguments are what the Dem primary is going to drudge up, which I have a hard time seeing coalesce hard enough behind a single candidate, I'm looking forward to President Trump in 2020. If the democrats nominate another right winger that's what'll happen regardless.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:04
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Mellow Seas posted:Ah geez, must’ve been someone adjacent to you. Sorry about that. That was Raskolnikov38.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:05
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its fine, the Obama Boys have always all looked the same to hillaryfolk
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Jan 28, 2019 04:06
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Willa Rogers posted:It's p. weird to assume black people don't have political agency based on policy and will instead vote for another black person reflexively. For me at least, it’s not this, it’s more that in all of my experience, both online and off, it feels like the primary battle lines were drawn in 2016 and haven’t moved since. The people I know who backed Hillary are backing Harris and vehemently anti-Bernie; the people I know who backed Bernie are, by and large, backing him again and vehemently anti-everyone-else. I’m just not seeing anything that really shows that the core split of Bernie-vs-Establishment has changed (if anything, it feels like the lines have solidified).
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Jan 28, 2019 04:07
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Majorian posted:I didn't say her speech was "I'm a cop, I'm a cop." I didn't say that either, but I will now.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:09
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Also, she's a cop.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:10
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Z. Autobahn posted:For me at least, it’s not this, it’s more that in all of my experience, both online and off, it feels like the primary battle lines were drawn in 2016 and haven’t moved since. The people I know who backed Hillary are backing Harris and vehemently anti-Bernie; the people I know who backed Bernie are, by and large, backing him again and vehemently anti-everyone-else. I’m just not seeing anything that really shows that the core split of Bernie-vs-Establishment has changed (if anything, it feels like the lines have solidified). Agreed. And everyone is pretending to be engaging in good faith efforts to engage the other faction, but in reality they are just shouting at each other and scoffing at the idea of a middle ground.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:13
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Hot drat, I knew for a while there were a shitload of white people who assume they can speak for black people and in the process frequently out themselves as being incredibly racist, but this is really bringing them out of the woodwork. That's what happens when you've been letting the conservatives define the discourse for so long, maybe.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:13
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Brony Car posted:Agreed. And everyone is pretending to be engaging in good faith efforts to engage the other faction, but in reality they are just shouting at each other and scoffing at the idea of a middle ground. You could say... both sides are bad, the truth is in the middle?
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Jan 28, 2019 04:14
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Z. Autobahn posted:For me at least, it’s not this, it’s more that in all of my experience, both online and off, it feels like the primary battle lines were drawn in 2016 and haven’t moved since. The people I know who backed Hillary are backing Harris and vehemently anti-Bernie; the people I know who backed Bernie are, by and large, backing him again and vehemently anti-everyone-else. I’m just not seeing anything that really shows that the core split of Bernie-vs-Establishment has changed (if anything, it feels like the lines have solidified). I guess the argument of hope I'd give is that throughout the last 2 years we've seemed to have the same deal but it doesn't seem to matter come Election Day. Like I look at a player like Beto O'Rourke who is now ripped to shreds by the leftists but when he was running against Ted Cruz the support seemed to be there. For the most part I think people seem to be recognizing the mutual enemy of the Republican party at the point that it matters most. Hopefully once the primaries actually happen and reality begins to shape we see that more or less come together. More people saying "If Bernie isn't the candidate its best we have 4 more years of Trump" or "I will never vote Bernie under any circumstance" is bad. But hopefully they're either the vocal fringe or they're venting and will come around by November 2020. That seems to me like its been the pattern these last But I might be deluding myself.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:17
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a bad candidate will cause people who aren't politically engaged to stay home, and a heavily contested primary will weaken even the best candidate by putting their flaws on stark display.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:20
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Ghost Leviathan posted:You could say... both sides are bad, the truth is in the middle? I don't know. I basically have no idea how this primary is going to unfold, but I suspect a lot of people are going to ragequit instead of making the best of what real voters actually want and pressing on from there. I can see annoying suburban voters staying home over Bernie due to the baggage and I can see the Sanders-lovers staying home over Kamala and viewing any win, no matter how narrow, as another rigging. I just want to move in the right direction and have a person who doesn't just sling big ideas around. We need execution and constant efforts to get better. I basically want LBJ with an actual soul and I know that's not happening.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:20
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STAC Goat posted:
i don't think anyone is actually saying that Cease to Hope posted:and a heavily contested primary will weaken even the best candidate by putting their flaws on stark display. didn't hurt obama
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Jan 28, 2019 04:25
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Brony Car posted:I don't know. I basically have no idea how this primary is going to unfold, but I suspect a lot of people are going to ragequit instead of making the best of what real voters actually want and pressing on from there. I can see annoying suburban voters staying home over Bernie due to the baggage and I can see the Sanders-lovers staying home over Kamala and viewing any win, no matter how narrow, as another rigging. All of this sounds like vapid nonsense. What actual policies do you want to see implemented and which candidate best represents that.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:26
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Z. Autobahn posted:For me at least, it’s not this, it’s more that in all of my experience, both online and off, it feels like the primary battle lines were drawn in 2016 and haven’t moved since. The people I know who backed Hillary are backing Harris and vehemently anti-Bernie; the people I know who backed Bernie are, by and large, backing him again and vehemently anti-everyone-else. I’m just not seeing anything that really shows that the core split of Bernie-vs-Establishment has changed (if anything, it feels like the lines have solidified). I was responding in that post to the troll guy, not you. As I've said, I think it's fairly likely Harris will win the nomination (bc lol succ dems) and I think Bernie will have a tough row to hoe, not in the least because of Withers. But just because she's one of two PoC to have announced to date I don't think it's fair to (a) assume black voters won't examine her political history (they're doing a better job of it than white women stanning for Harris uncritically, from what I've seen) or (b) assume that the anti-Sanders vote will all aggregate to Harris, especially given Warren's party standing. (As I've said, Warren's prolly the one candidate I could see uniting both factions.) In other words, it feels like you're making the assumption that the entire anti-Bernie crowd will coalesce behind Harris and I'm just not seeing that at this point in the race.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:27
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STAC Goat posted:Like I look at a player like Beto O'Rourke who is now ripped to shreds by the leftists but when he was running against Ted Cruz the support seemed to be there. How many of the people ripping O'Rourke right now for lacking leftist credibility are from Texas, though? I think Beto was viewed as a major sign of progress from a Texan frame of reference, but the minute anyone tried to push the idea of him running for national office, it changed the judgment criteria (and it rightfully should).
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Jan 28, 2019 04:28
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The Muppets On PCP posted:i don't think anyone is actually saying that There's definitely been discussion of how if a lovely Dem wins it just paves the way for someone worse in 2024
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Jan 28, 2019 04:29
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The Muppets On PCP posted:i don't think anyone is actually saying that I don't want to fight over it, but at least one guy totally did today in great length before all the Harris stuff. I'm not saying he's the norm. Matter of fact I was actively arguing that I don't think he is. Brony Car posted:How many of the people ripping O'Rourke right now for lacking leftist credibility are from Texas, though? I think Beto was viewed as a major sign of progress from a Texan frame of reference, but the minute anyone tried to push the idea of him running for national office, it changed the judgment criteria (and it rightfully should). And that's my hope. People have legitimate problems with O'Rourke that they're expressing. But in the reality of "Beto or Cruz?" people seemed to recognize that he was the right option. My hope is that whatever concerns one might have with Bernie or Harris or whoever when its "X or Trump?" we find some sort of mutual ground. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Jan 28, 2019 |
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Jan 28, 2019 04:30
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mila kunis posted:All of this sounds like vapid nonsense. What actual policies do you want to see implemented and which candidate best represents that. Thank you. I love you too. I like a lot of what Warren has been proposing. The DNA video announcement makes me fear that she's a horrific campaigner and I wish she had more natural speaking charisma. (If you ignore ideological preferences, I think she comes across a lot like Hillary Clinton did and I think that's a non-starter.) I'm probably going to end up voting for Sanders if he makes it official because I can see him doing the necessary barnstorming and inspiration and at least his baggage come from one consistent political direction. I was told I was a big lefty growing up by the people in my southern hometown but you guys definitely give a different perspective.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:36
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The animosity would be significantly lessened if there wasn't this continuous need to disingenuously pretend that policy differences don't exist. Harris, outside of her M4A support, is a pretty standard centrist democrat, from her unabashed support of Israel and status quo on foreign policy, to her centering tax cuts as the key policy addressing inequality, to her comfortable position with wall street. The poo poo starts when people start going "actually shes just as left as Bernie, so you must be racist and sexist to not vote for her"
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Jan 28, 2019 04:36
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The Muppets On PCP posted:i don't think anyone is actually saying that to be fair, plenty of people have said that, including, like, 2 pages ago itt. I'm not saying it's the majority view, but "Bernie or Bust" is definitely a not-uncommon position. Willa Rogers posted:I was responding in that post to the troll guy, not you. Yeah, I don't disagree with any of this; Harris is the candidate I've seen getting the most traction, but it could go a lot of different ways. My bigger thing is the certainty that her lovely cop record will doom her feels a lot like a reprise of the "Hillary said super-predators, she's doomed in the South!" vibe of 2016. I'm definitely seeing a lot of folks online criticizing Harris, but at least from what I'm seeing, they're all leftist activists who were already on the Bern train; what I'm not seeing is her being particularly criticized by Hillary people, which is the significant demographic she's targeting. I'll believe her record matters electorally when I see centrists critiquing it; until then, it just feels like it's limited to the people who were already not going to vote for her.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:41
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Brony Car posted:If these emotions and arguments are what the Dem primary is going to drudge up, which I have a hard time seeing coalesce hard enough behind a single candidate, I'm looking forward to President Trump in 2020. The only candidate who I can see generating actual enthusiasm across the left and center left after they win the nomination, with minimal sniping, is Warren. Just saying  On the other hand, I think the center left would stop their sniping if Bernie won the nom, and he would generate more enthusiasm from the left, and get out more voters who usually don’t vote. So if we’re looking at voter turnout, I would say Bernie generates the most, followed by Warren.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:42
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Yinlock posted:Hillary fans are very much not who the democrats need right now
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Jan 28, 2019 04:47
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:There's definitely been discussion of how if a lovely Dem wins it just paves the way for someone worse in 2024 while that's undoubtedly true, it's not quite the same thing as saying it'd be better if trump won in the absence of a sanders nomination
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Jan 28, 2019 04:47
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