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Is there some part of proposed UBI systems that would help prevent them from basically just being an excuse to inflate the cost of everything? I am certainly cynical enough to believe if there was a basic level of income for people in order for them to have food and housing etc that companies and landlords etc would just raise their prices by that much because "hey it's the market/we can charge more/etc" e: this is me showing my ignorance on the topic for sure. and dog tax I suppose 
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Jan 29, 2019 20:15
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robotsinmyhead posted:Yep. I do technical work for a nonprofit health system. Our pay is lower than similar other jobs. I have more than once considered ditching this poo poo to go work at Costco or something. Well, to tie this into UBI, not every job will have to pay more when people have extra income. You work for a non profit. Often those have worthy goals that people like supporting. In a world where people are getting basic needs covered, someone who likes your non profit (healthcare is a minefield so im handwaving that facet) might sign on for slightly below market rate because they like contributing to your non-profits goals.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:15
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CubanMissile posted:Hell not even that. Once you hit CEO level, even if you've majorly hosed up you can still get a cushy CEO or top executive position somewhere else. It's not like you have to fade away. It's all pure ego. Thinking about it more a lot of it seems like they see that company as being "theirs", which is a hilarious level of misunderstanding about how capitalism and public companies work for somebody supposedly at the top of that food chain.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:15
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DrNutt posted:You don't even have to be a CEO, NBC gave Megyn Kelly something like 67 million dollars to fire her. Adam Gase got hired to coach the Jets as an alternate example.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:15
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Harik posted:Completely unrelated but every time I see fart city's av I think it's willa (or maybe crow jane?) Did one of them have a similar av at some point in the past? SA makes me type the weirdest sentences.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:16
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bobua posted:WTF? I'll speak about some of my colleagues in the "higher tier" of my job where they're shorthanded: Without going too much into it, the way you do it push the necessary work off on the other 2 guys who are doing the work of 3 guys and just let them deal with it. Those 2 guys are, obviously, pissed off. They're likely cutting corners to get things done. Starting pay for that position is low-mid 60ks and should be over 80k. It requires MINIMUM Bachelor's Degree in Science and/or equivalent and like 5 years industry (specialized) training. Just a really broad example. CoL is pretty low here, but those wages are not up to snuff either way. edit: Like most healthcare, a TON of our money comes from Medicare, which is pretty much fixed and the rest of it is really up-and-down depending on insurance fuckery - there's a lot of insurance fuckery. I don't deal with this stuff at all, I just see our Quarterly budget reports now and then. robotsinmyhead fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jan 29, 2019 |
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Jan 29, 2019 20:16
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it's wild how quickly trump having quarterly one-on-ones with his manager got normalized
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Jan 29, 2019 20:17
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Mahoning posted:https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1090259634861105152 At least it's honest
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Jan 29, 2019 20:17
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robotsinmyhead posted:All this talk of UBI is is hard to grasp for me. I work in a field that kinda weird and we've been trying to fill a couple positions for literally YEARS now. Starting pay is low considering the requirements they want, and if UBI puts pressure on wages to go up in easier jobs, this work will never get done unless my employer raises wages.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:17
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Vile Pilot posted:I would be fine with a UBI system that doesn't give money directly to people, but provides extremely spartan dormitory/housing project style accommodations. Dont we basically already have this? They're the projects in major cities and they're basically where you concentrate all the poor people. They're ghettos.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:17
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Mahoning posted:It's not like there's something sinister about a SOTU response that makes it special. The careers it has ended were going to be ended the moment that person had to make ANY big speech, the fact that it was the SOTU response is just incidental. If she crashes and burns it's because she wasn't going to be able to handle the spotlight anyways. If she doesn't, at worst her political prospects don't change a bit. SOTU response is a purely reactive speech, unlike a convention speech where you can lay out some positive new ideas. It’s just going on TV and saying “everything that guy just said is bullshit” without the charm of Vincent Gambini.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:18
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Lemming posted:She won't need to run, she'll be president after Trump and Pence get impeached and convicted You probably don't need to be told this but even if Senate Republicans could be convinced to convict Trump there's zero chance they'll do it for Pence. Even if he's the mastermind behind Trump/Russia or something.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:18
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Mahoning posted:https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1090259634861105152 "I figured I'd just buy a presidency rather than pay taxes. Seemed easier."
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Jan 29, 2019 20:18
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Well, to tie this into UBI, not every job will have to pay more when people have extra income. You work for a non profit. Often those have worthy goals that people like supporting. In a world where people are getting basic needs covered, someone who likes your non profit (healthcare is a minefield so im handwaving that facet) might sign on for slightly below market rate because they like contributing to your non-profits goals. If I had access to a UBI I'd pretty much never stop doing my job (until there was no more need for it because we managed to lift everyone to a decent standard of living  )e: "we" as in society, not to imply that my job is capable of lifting people out of poverty, rather it's focused on providing assistance.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:19
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Infinite Karma posted:If management has to do work themselves, or take a pay cut (i.e. be accountable) to raise wages enough to pay people appropriately to do it for them... I don't see the downside. They weren't offering enough in the first place, or if they filled the job at that low price, they were underpaying people. It's not crazy to make "pay people what they're worth" a cornerstone of our economy. UBI won't ever make people deserve more pay, but it will prevent people from being so desperate to make ends meet that they'll accept lovely offers. Right and it will make it easier for people to spend more time looking for jobs, less worry about the risk of unemployment if they have a lovely job etc.. It will in general place upward pressure on wages and increase total compensation to workers by empowering them vs capital.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:19
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Levitate posted:Is there some part of proposed UBI systems that would help prevent them from basically just being an excuse to inflate the cost of everything? I am certainly cynical enough to believe if there was a basic level of income for people in order for them to have food and housing etc that companies and landlords etc would just raise their prices by that much because "hey it's the market/we can charge more/etc" That's why I suggested the housing project system. It's not like people would be stuck there unless they either didn't work or didn't save their money.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:19
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Vile Pilot posted:I would be fine with a UBI system that doesn't give money directly to people, but provides extremely spartan dormitory/housing project style accommodations. Why this particular trait?
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Jan 29, 2019 20:20
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Crow Jane posted:I've had avs of Peggy and Joan from Mad Men, and I believe Willa's is a Warhol painting of Jackie Kennedy, both of which have a similar mid-century vibe to Fart City's. Also, someone other than Fart City had an animated gif avatar of the same person in the same outfit. What's that from, anyway?
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Jan 29, 2019 20:20
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Vile Pilot posted:That's why I suggested the housing project system. It's not like people would be stuck there unless they either didn't work or didn't save their money. The reason UBI is being talked about is because of the possibility that automation will make it so that many people can't just go out and get a job.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:21
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Vile Pilot posted:That's why I suggested the housing project system. It's not like people would be stuck there unless they either didn't work or didn't save their money. If someone is seen having fun in the projects what would the punishment be?
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Jan 29, 2019 20:21
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SKULL.GIF posted:Why this particular trait? Poors must suffer. Work shall set them free.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:21
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Infinite Karma posted:If management has to do work themselves, or take a pay cut (i.e. be accountable) to raise wages enough to pay people appropriately to do it for them... I don't see the downside. They weren't offering enough in the first place, or if they filled the job at that low price, they were underpaying people. It's not crazy to make "pay people what they're worth" a cornerstone of our economy. UBI won't ever make people deserve more pay, but it will prevent people from being so desperate to make ends meet that they'll accept lovely offers. This is the part I was getting at - the shakeup at the inevitability of UBI to push wages upward, especially in a field where wages are suppressed.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:21
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Vile Pilot posted:That's why I suggested the housing project system. It's not like people would be stuck there unless they either didn't work or didn't save their money. It's a loving terrible idea that rhymes with any number of horrors from history and the present day. Just give people money.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:21
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SKULL.GIF posted:Why this particular trait? It's cheaper and more practical. Unlike the vast majority of people here, I'm not for any serious amount of wealth redistribution. Just the basic necessities of life provided to all citizens.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:22
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Vile Pilot posted:It's cheaper and more practical. Unlike the vast majority of people here, I'm not for any serious amount of wealth redistribution. Just the basic necessities of life provided to all citizens. Would you care to explain why, given the undeniable realities of how wealth is acquired?
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Jan 29, 2019 20:23
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Vile Pilot posted:I would be fine with a UBI system that doesn't give money directly to people, but provides extremely spartan dormitory/housing project style accommodations. We already have section 8 housing vouchers why do you want to go back to literal dickensian poor houses
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Jan 29, 2019 20:23
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Vile Pilot posted:That's why I suggested the housing project system. It's not like people would be stuck there unless they either didn't work or didn't save their money. But why force certain living conditions on them instead of just taking that same monetary investment and empowering them to chose what works for them?
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Jan 29, 2019 20:23
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Levitate posted:Is there some part of proposed UBI systems that would help prevent them from basically just being an excuse to inflate the cost of everything? I am certainly cynical enough to believe if there was a basic level of income for people in order for them to have food and housing etc that companies and landlords etc would just raise their prices by that much because "hey it's the market/we can charge more/etc" you can't really inflate the price of food that much, as food is highly elastic and there are a ton of different food producers. plus, people aren't going to start eating 2x or 3x the amount of food with higher income. rich people don't eat 40k calories a day, for example housing prices would see some inflation in highly desirable areas but there's a lot of land in america that could still be developed for housing, as well as making existing housing denser. the problem with housing prices in america is not insufficient supply in aggregate, but rather insufficient supply in specific areas along with minimum housing prices still being higher than many people's ability to pay Hieronymous Alloy posted:We already have section 8 housing vouchers why do you want to go back to literal dickensian poor houses section 8 is a terrible program that is mostly in place just because the federal government is highly restricted in what it can do regarding direct housing provision
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Jan 29, 2019 20:23
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Vile Pilot posted:It's cheaper and more practical. Unlike the vast majority of people here, I'm not for any serious amount of wealth redistribution. Just the basic necessities of life provided to all citizens. Leaving them to die in the streets is cheap and practical too
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Jan 29, 2019 20:24
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SKULL.GIF posted:Why this particular trait? Are you not a fan of enclaves of human misery?
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Jan 29, 2019 20:24
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Vile Pilot posted:It's cheaper and more practical. Unlike the vast majority of people here, I'm not for any serious amount of wealth redistribution. Just the basic necessities of life provided to all citizens. How many posts away are we from the Chuck Asay bears cartoon?
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Jan 29, 2019 20:25
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Vile Pilot posted:It's cheaper and more practical. Unlike the vast majority of people here, I'm not for any serious amount of wealth redistribution. Just the basic necessities of life provided to all citizens. It's not though. There are external costs associated with concentrating all the poor people into one place like that.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:25
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TheScott2K posted:It's a loving terrible idea that rhymes with any number of horrors from history and the present day. Just give people money. :Shutlz: b-b-b-ut I specifically WANT them to live like John B. Calhoun's Rat Utopia experiments!
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Jan 29, 2019 20:25
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:We already have section 8 housing vouchers why do you want to go back to literal dickensian poor houses Yeah but section 8 housing isn't entirely free. Unoriginal Name posted:Leaving them to die in the streets is cheap and practical too That would go against my opinion that no one should be homeless, starving, dying of lack of medical care, etc. OctaMurk posted:It's not though. There are external costs associated with concentrating all the poor people into one place like that. Ok I mispoke, I'm pretty sure it would be cheaper if it was well run.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:26
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I feel like every 2 or 3 years I read an article about how companies are asking for huge qualifications for poo poo pay and then shrugging, saying "we just can't find qualified workers"
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Jan 29, 2019 20:26
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luxury handset posted:
Tell that to the people trying to get the vouchers It's drastically underfunded but the concept is just food stamps for housing
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Jan 29, 2019 20:26
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Crow Jane posted:I've had avs of Peggy and Joan from Mad Men, and I believe Willa's is a Warhol painting of Jackie Kennedy, both of which have a similar mid-century vibe to Fart City's. FYI if anyone is curious my av is an illustration I did of Aunt Martha from Sleepaway Camp, aka my spirit animal https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DKcF4R7tmlE
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Jan 29, 2019 20:26
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gently caress it, just have them sign contracts to work for WorryFree.
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Jan 29, 2019 20:26
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Vile Pilot posted:I would be fine with a UBI system that doesn't give money directly to people, but provides extremely spartan dormitory/housing project style accommodations. A Modest Proposal
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Jan 29, 2019 20:27
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SKULL.GIF posted:You probably don't need to be told this but even if Senate Republicans could be convinced to convict Trump there's zero chance they'll do it for Pence. Even if he's the mastermind behind Trump/Russia or something. They're going to impeach God first and then there will be no more rules I think if there's any chance that the Senate convicts Trump then I think that Pence goes down too, they're all too stupid to have actually insulated him. I agree Trump isn't getting convicted no matter what though so it's not realistic, just my hilarious dream scenario. We're in Nightmare World so it's not happening
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Jan 29, 2019 20:27
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