|
Javid posted:In DD2, he was doing that. The two seasons of his show portray him trying to go back to being something other than a murder machine once he's eliminated everyone involved with his personal tragedy. In season 1 there were just loose ends he hadn't been aware of that he had to go back and kill; season 2 showed him just flat out enjoying hurting bad people even though they had absolutely nothing to do with him, and coming to grips with that fact. The kid said it in one of the early episodes, it was like he was waiting for the excuse. By the end of sesason 2 he's at the point where he doesn't need that excuse anymore. Like he said in season 1, "I am home."
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2019 01:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 07:59 |
|
|
The therapist and Billy's thing basically killed the back end of the show for me. I don't get her heel turn, and the show does nothing to make me care. Like Billy meets her with no memory and then IMMEDIATELY goes back to indiscriminately killing people and that makes her ... swoon? Then they spend endless hours faffing about how "Oh, Billy and Frank are the sAaAmE" when the difference is way too obvious and AHHHHHH I dunno I'm kinda glad Netlfix Marvel is dead. And I'm a guy who's watched all the runs and more or less enjoyed them. This season, though, was rough. Not bad TV, but certainly bad Punisher cause they somehow made it boring.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2019 02:07
|
|
|
I'm finished. It was okay, but I couldn't understand anyone's motivations this entire season. I don't get why everyone is constantly letting Castle go, and I don't get why those vets would follow Russo at all. "I just hosed up our first robbery, had an obvious mental breakdown in the middle of the street, got the cops involved, got a bunch of our guys killed and then after we got away murdered part of our crew. If you stick with me it'll be that times 100!"  I was glad when one of Frank's several black one legged friends finally just said gently caress it I'm out.I was also really disappointed in the "Punisher takes on neo fascist cult" marketing. A single former nazi who by every account has renounced his former life to the point where he stole from his former friends and they tried to kill him, that's bullshit. Yeah, his new crowd was were some religious extremists but they were so vague about their plans and never did much of anything except murder people and quote the Bible. They didn't even seem to be all that put out by their gay son, except for the inconvenience it caused in running him for president.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 07:47
|
|
|
That should have been the major plot, and the hangover stuff from last year really got in the way. The Pilgrim was a far more interesting antagonist, or at least could have been. You could easily maintain all the same "WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND <BAD GUY>!?!" nonsense from the other storyline, and removed the problem of the two storylines competing with each other for screentime and diluting each other.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 09:29
|
|
|
Just remembered that the trailer misrepresented the plot of the show as "Jigsaw teams up with the Pilgrim" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrLhP5sK2wI&t=67s It's a drat dirty shame all that poo poo got in the way of the tight two-hour action movie they're advertising here.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 09:37
|
|
|
counterfeitsaint posted:I was also really disappointed in the "Punisher takes on neo fascist cult" marketing. A single former nazi who by every account has renounced his former life to the point where he stole from his former friends and they tried to kill him, that's bullshit. They'd hardly want to piss off one of their core viewerships. That's why he's fighting an ex-Nazi. (I mean, I'm being overly cynical, but the thread's talked before about how the Punisher is big with neo-nazis and the alt right.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 12:02
|
|
|
They wanted you to root for Pilgrim, and they can’t ask you to root for someone who is still a Nazi.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 13:57
|
|
|
Wait so what were Pilgrim & CO motivations? The rich jerkwards had a son who was gay, which they wanted to hide so they sent Pilgrim and his crew of paramilitary mercenaries (???) off to kill the kid? And pilgrim was in this to repent or something? Like I watched the entire season and I have no idea what any of that was about.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 14:14
|
|
|
Basically he was a mercenary who had repented but the rich assholes kept using his sick wife and eventually his kids as leverage to get him to go be evil. It’s definitely extremely heavy handed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 14:20
|
|
|
MiddleOne posted:Wait so what were Pilgrim & CO motivations? The rich jerkwards had a son who was gay, which they wanted to hide so they sent Pilgrim and his crew of paramilitary mercenaries (???) off to kill the kid? And pilgrim was in this to repent or something? No they wanted to get the film so that word of their gay son didn't leak to the world since having a gay president is too far fetched for the blind vigilante ninja fighting an army of zombie ninjas that still need to breathe, Marvel universe. America just isn't ready for the gay agenda to be shoving itself down their throats like that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 14:27
|
|
|
MiddleOne posted:Wait so what were Pilgrim & CO motivations? The rich jerkwards had a son who was gay, which they wanted to hide so they sent Pilgrim and his crew of paramilitary mercenaries (???) off to kill the kid? And pilgrim was in this to repent or something? The Russian (Poloznev?) hired Amy and her friends to get incriminating photos of Senator Schultz in order to get influence over him. The Schultzes found out about it and sent Pilgrim to eliminate everyone involved to sweep it under the rug because it would have derailed their son's career/run for President/didn't mesh with their supremacist ideology. So Pilgrim was taking out everyone on the Schultzes say-so because they were bankrolling his wife's treatment/medical bills. Once she died, he wanted out so they switched to using his sons' safety as a bargaining chip. I thought Pilgrim was a cool character, and I agree a tighter, shorter season with him as the main antagonist would've been great. Since this season was juggling Pilgrim and Russo, I felt like neither one of their plots quite built up the proper 'momentum'.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 15:03
|
|
|
I liked that The Pilgrims seemed to have just as many fanatical women working for them as they did men.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 15:19
|
|
|
bring back old gbs posted:I liked that The Pilgrims seemed to have just as many fanatical women working for them as they did men. I got the impression those were just mercs, not necessarily followers. I did like that they threw out the designated girl fight trope, and had Frank immediately dealing with women who were actual credible threats.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 20:17
|
|
|
LadyPictureShow posted:
Did anyone else get the impression, that when we first saw the church/Schultzes, that they were also responsible for the people in their congregation for being ill?
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 20:28
|
|
|
Davros1 posted:Did anyone else get the impression, that when we first saw the church/Schultzes, that they were also responsible for the people in their congregation for being ill? Certainly everyone was in danger of irony poisoning.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 20:35
|
|
|
The whole "what would you do in my position?" justification for Pilgrim's kid killings kinda fell flat when we saw how easily Frank took out the Schultzes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 21:54
|
|
|
Their control over him was as much psychological as it was leverage. It sounds like they'd been the ones who "saved" him from his aryan ways, so they'd been feeding him his religious indoctrination for a while now. Every time the old couple shows up, their dialog gets slightly more ominous; at the beginning it's like "do good work and the lord will provide", later it's a slightly less veiled "do it for your wife and kids", and the last contact he has is basically just shy of "just get it done if you want to see your sons again, you piece of poo poo" and he just stands there and takes it from an old woman he could loving destroy; that's indicative of a loooong term pattern of abuse and conditioning. Note how little convincing it took for their son to realize what kind of poo poo his parents were behind.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 22:38
|
|
|
Yeah, the rich assholes are some kind of vague hyper conservative mega rich religious nuts but the show never really gets into it. They've been grooming their son since birth to be president so he can TAKE BACK ARE COUNTRY and get us right with their twisted version of god again, except the son turns out to be gay. The Russians get wind of this and hire Amy to take blackmail photos. Rich rear end in a top hat parents send pilgrim dude to murder anyone remotely associated with the photos to make sure they stay covered up as to not interfere with the plan. Gay son actually has no idea any of this is going on behind the scenes. Also rich rear end in a top hat parent discuss several times how the plan all along has always been to get rid of pilgrim once he's finished.Open Source Idiom posted:They'd hardly want to piss off one of their core viewerships. That's exactly why I wanted this to happen.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 00:03
|
|
|
Davros1 posted:Did anyone else get the impression, that when we first saw the church/Schultzes, that they were also responsible for the people in their congregation for being ill? Yea. The way the camera kept focusing on the mystery bottles made me think she was either poisoned or kept contained with an opiate addiction. Can't recall if they did a close-up to show what was in them or not so that could have just been a red herring.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 00:37
|
|
|
Davros1 posted:Did anyone else get the impression, that when we first saw the church/Schultzes, that they were also responsible for the people in their congregation for being ill? Yeah I kept waiting for this to be a reveal but it just never came up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 01:22
|
|
|
The entire jigsaw plot just felt like s1 had a hangover that lasted for a week
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 15:52
|
|
|
Finally got around to finishing the second season of Punisher. Such a frustrating show. I can only guess but maybe this second season is actually them combining the planned plotlines for season 2 and 3 knowing they'll never be getting a third season from Marvel? I can't really rationalize it any other way. Even at the end you've got Curtis straight up explaining to Mahoney "yeah this is all a mess eh, these stories had nothing to do with each other and probably shouldn't have been in the same season of this show buddy i'm as confused as you and the viewer are". A pure Russo season, where maybe you have him pull a full Nicky Cavella and do 'Up is Down and Black is White' could have been great. Or as has been brought up before, season 2 could have been cribbed from 'The Slavers' and replace Bosnians with religious whackos. The pieces are all good, i genuinely like all the supporting cast and Bernthal is perfection but it's so frustrating that it isn't all put together better. Writing good Punisher storylines is super difficult as has been shown by the entire existence of the character in comics, there's no shame in directly taking from the runs that worked. You're doing dark gritty violent Frank Castle, steal all of Ennis' poo poo. The stinger at the end of the season, setting Madani up as a sort of Nick Fury role to potentially place Frank into higher stakes conflict while also showing the Punisher well, being the Punisher now... makes me sad. Maybe a season 3 could have mixed all the decent ingredients together properly. We'll probably never know.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 17:05
|
|
|
i know there isn't going to be another season but in the highly unlikely event it happens the whole thing being the nicky cavella story line from punisher max would be cool to see
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 20:59
|
|
|
I actually hated Billy this season and he and his psycho bitch therapist can go kick rocks. Nothing about Billy’s motivations or plans holds up to even a light analysis, he’s just coocoo for Cocoa Puffs
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 21:06
|
|
|
I kept expecting him to have an epiphany moment where he would remembered and then just go for revenge and just understand what the gently caress is going on. But nope, he’s just a broken shell and crazy with no idea of what the gently caress is actually going on until the very end and then he dies.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 21:25
|
|
|
Did Netflix officially cancel Punisher yet, or is it still to come?
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 22:22
|
|
|
Bust Rodd posted:I actually hated Billy this season and he and his psycho bitch therapist can go kick rocks. Nothing about Billy’s motivations or plans holds up to even a light analysis, he’s just coocoo for Cocoa Puffs I thought that relationship would get more negative attention, honestly. It's such a shallow, lovely romance trope -- she knows he's dangerous but he's so dark and dreamy, and she can be there for him, but the whole season he never did anything besides be weird and dangerous and also good-looking. It makes that character into a really dumb version of that archetype, considering she even throws away her job and tries to stab an FBI agent.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 22:22
|
|
|
And also considering that the character is supposed to be horrifically disfigured
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 22:23
|
|
|
Bust Rodd posted:And also considering that the character is supposed to be horrifically disfigured To be fair, when the women of the show have knock-down fights, are shot in the head, or get thrown out of windows, the only facial marks apparent are a single scratch and a faded scar near the hairline. Compared to everyone else’s super-reconstructive powers, Jigsaw might as well be the Phantom of the Opera.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 23:17
|
|
|
I appreciate that the boiling tea kettle was a red herring. That was the first kitchen fight scene I've seen where one was set up and then not used, which made the actual conclusion a surprise.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 23:31
|
|
|
The show did legitimately dump a lot of common tropes and I love it
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 00:46
|
|
|
in_cahoots posted:To be fair, when the women of the show have knock-down fights, are shot in the head, or get thrown out of windows, the only facial marks apparent are a single scratch and a faded scar near the hairline. Compared to everyone else’s super-reconstructive powers, Jigsaw might as well be the Phantom of the Opera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_tHIqhmmIc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8AvWkrppsg Now remember the first episode of the first season of the show.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 04:44
|
|
|
The more I think about it, the more I think they desperately need to get away from Frank's origin. His origin story was at it's absolutely best in that graveyard scene with Daredevil, that was all we needed. But they keep adding layers and layers onto it and it gets shittier every time they do. His family got killed buy a bunch of lovely gang members in a drug deal gone bad, the cops are covering it up because they had an undercover guy there, and a bullet in his brain means he's in constant fight or flight mode, the end. Perfect. Nothing more is needed. But actually it's because his old unit was smuggling heroin so they had to kill him because he wouldn't go for it and the least suspicious way was to kill a ton of other people too, family included. But actually it's because the heroin was just to fund their heinous war crime poo poo with the CIA so they had to kill him because he knew too much. But actually also his best friend who he trusted more than anyone was the one that set up the hit because greed. But actually his best friend is now a super villain who's super power is that he doesn't know he killed Frank's family and he's crazy. No. Just loving stop. Move on to something else already.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 10:09
|
|
|
counterfeitsaint posted:No. Just loving stop. Move on to something else already. I agree. I've been saying for a while that season 2 needed to be something completely unrelated to his origin, but just something he couldn't see and not stop, like how the Slavers arc starts. They HAD that with this season, if they cut 3 episodes and the entire Billy plot they would've pulled it off. S2 started strong with him happening to be present for a kid being kidnapped and jumping into somebody else's problems instead of his own, but then billy keeps Being Crazy in the middle of it so you know the streams are gonna cross and ugh
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 10:27
|
|
|
Javid posted:I agree. I've been saying for a while that season 2 needed to be something completely unrelated to his origin, but just something he couldn't see and not stop, like how the Slavers arc starts. They HAD that with this season, if they cut 3 episodes and the entire Billy plot they would've pulled it off. Funnily enough it reminds me of season 2 of Dardevil where the writers got bored of the Punisher partway through and decided to play with lovely ninjas instead.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 11:27
|
|
|
Happy Noodle Boy posted:I kept expecting him to have an epiphany moment where he would remembered and then just go for revenge and just understand what the gently caress is going on. But nope, he’s just a broken shell and crazy with no idea of what the gently caress is actually going on until the very end and then he dies. Yeah, at the very beginning with the amnesia it kinda looked like they might have been going for an interesting angle where it opened up the question if "new" amnesiac Bobby could still be held responsible for the crimes of old Bobby. That could even have led into a neat parallel where both Bobby and Frank end up doing more or less the same things for similar reasons borne out of a similar trauma. Except then like two episodes later Bobby ends up gunning down his own guys in cold blood for shits and giggles and we're back to the old "he's just a psycho I guess".
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 19:47
|
|
|
This was basically "You And I, We're The Same - the season"
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 20:04
|
|
|
O'Connor was right, all this touchy feely bullshit helped no one. The decision to have Frank Castle be visible in the show was a mistake. He should've just been a presence that got people killed like when he took out the Irish(?) bar in DD season 2 and the mob in the first episode.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 23:22
|
|
|
GeorgieMordor posted:A friend of mine said it best: "The whole point of the Punisher is that he's constantly shooting people." Almost zero iconic scenes about the punisher revolve around him shooting people.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 03:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 07:59 |
|
|
Catfishenfuego posted:Almost zero iconic scenes about the punisher revolve around him shooting people. I would love to see you expand on this, because I'm pretty sure you're either wrong or have a very specific idea of what constitutes an iconic punisher scene
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 04:23
|
|
