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Discendo Vox posted:They came to the thread already past that point. Scratch that, make it hundreds of thousands.
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Jan 31, 2019 17:30
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It’s simultaneously funny and sad that DnD liberals have been taken in by the Venezuelan equivalent of a bunch of MAGA CHUDs
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Jan 31, 2019 17:36
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Chomskyan posted:It’s simultaneously funny and sad that DnD liberals have been taken in by the Venezuelan equivalent of a bunch of MAGA CHUDs Agreed 100% how this particularly applies to the "tourist" Maduro supporters flocking in here.
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Jan 31, 2019 17:42
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Chomskyan posted:It’s simultaneously funny and sad that DnD liberals have been taken in by the Venezuelan equivalent of a bunch of MAGA CHUDs Do you know anywhere I can go to hear from the other side of Venezuela? I mean like a discussion forum, not just articles. Unfortunately Venezuela Analysis does not allow comments. I can find their comments on youtube sometimes but its annoying to find new content there. Squalid fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jan 31, 2019 |
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Jan 31, 2019 17:43
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e:^^^ Fucker. You beat me to it.Chomskyan posted:It’s simultaneously funny and sad that DnD liberals have been taken in by the Venezuelan equivalent of a bunch of MAGA CHUDs I know, right? How did they take you in? Alternatively, ¿Por qué no te callas?
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Jan 31, 2019 17:43
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Oh drat. Hoisted on my own petard. You sure owned me
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Jan 31, 2019 17:45
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Here are just snippets from the report.quote:The Independent Expert inquired from the Government and the opposition about the impact of measures adopted by several States aimed directly and indirectly at affecting the functioning of the Venezuelan economy. He also looked at the problem of currency speculation, one of the preferred tools to destabilize targeted economies, and the activities of credit rating agencies,42 which, although they have neither democratic legitimacy nor oversight, have a significant impact on the financial ability of States to issue bonds and obtain financing. The Banco Central de Venezuela informed him that risk rating agencies, primarily Standard & Poor’s, Moody’s and Fitch, have consistently issued negative ratings based on the country’s ability to make external payments, forgetting that the Government has a history of excellent debt response. That has had a significant effect on the country’s risk level and has essentially shut down its possibilities of accessing the financial market. quote:Over the past sixty years, non-conventional economic wars have been waged against Cuba, Chile, Nicaragua, the Syrian Arab Republic and the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela in order to make their economies fail, facilitate regime change and impose a neo-liberal socioeconomic model. In order to discredit selected governments, failures in the field of human rights are maximized so as to make violent overthrow more palatable. Human rights are being “weaponized” against rivals. Yet, human rights are the heritage of every human being and should never be instrumentalized as weapons of demonization. quote:Richard Nixon told Henry Kissinger that the United States would not tolerate an alternative economic model in Latin America and gave orders to “make the Chilean economy scream”, and when all the boycotts and sanctions failed, Allende was removed by Pinochet’s coup in September 1973. The Spanish economist Alfredo Serrano, head of the Centro Estratégico Latinoamericano de Geopolítica, analyses the manipulation of the “country risk factor”, the refusal of banks to process Venezuelan international transactions, the obstacles to obtaining insulin and other medicines, the artificially induced inflation, and the arbitrary “dollar today” figures. Furthermore, staff of the Banco Central de Venezuela explained to the Independent Expert that the pernicious exchange rate published on a website that was not grounded in factual purchase and sale transactions had been negatively impacting the economy, primarily, as a price marker, raising inflations levels, constituting an instrument of war that had risen constantly, accumulating during the year an upward variation trend over 2,465 per cent.
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Jan 31, 2019 17:46
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Chomskyan posted:It’s simultaneously funny and sad that DnD liberals have been taken in by the Venezuelan equivalent of a bunch of MAGA CHUDs Honest question, what do you mean by this I'm open to reading venezuela analysis or w/e source you wanna post
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Jan 31, 2019 17:46
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Chomskyan posted:You're gonna eat so much crow by the time this is over The irony of this statement when there are hundreds of thousands starving right now that would eat crow if they got the chance. But yeah, lets keep Maduro propped up after a fake election because red reasons.
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Jan 31, 2019 17:47
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Presenting Nipples posted:Here are just snippets from the report. The report by the UN Special Rapporteur?
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Jan 31, 2019 17:50
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Rust Martialis posted:The report by the UN Special Rapporteur? Yes https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/venezuela-us-sanctions-united-nations-oil-pdvsa-a8748201.html
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Jan 31, 2019 17:54
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ChaseSP posted:Are we getting to the point of preemptively bragging how owned people will be when a situation they have zero control over may possibly get even worse, including the full on deaths of thousands if not more? Actually people do have some amount of control over this. For example, they could have avoided playing into the propaganda buildup justifying the intervention by refraining from posting on US-based English-language online platforms for years about how evil the Venezuelan government is and how something should be done against it, and more importantly by not systematically shutting down opposition to US foreign policy and any discussion about the risk that this was leading to foreign intervention. Believe me I take no pleasure in you being "owned". I know it's hard to understand but I'm actually here because I care, and because I'm tired of seeing this story repeat itself over and over again and always leading to so much suffering and injustice. Bob le Moche fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jan 31, 2019 |
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Jan 31, 2019 17:57
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Bob le Moche posted:Actually people do have some amount of control over this. For example, they could have avoided playing into the propaganda buildup justifying the intervention by refraining from posting on US-based English-language online platforms about how evil the Venezuelan government is
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Jan 31, 2019 18:04
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Bob le Moche posted:Actually people do have some amount of control over this. For example, they could have avoided playing into the propaganda buildup justifying the intervention by refraining from posting on US-based English-language online platforms for years about how evil the Venezuelan government is and how something should be done against it, and more importantly by not systematically shutting down opposition to US foreign policy and any discussion about the risk that this was leading to foreign intervention. the degree of narcissism required to think that posting on DnD has any impact on either public opinion or actual policy is more funny than anything else lol, that much I think everyone itt could agree on
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Jan 31, 2019 18:09
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It was me, my complaining on a dead gay comedy forum destroyed my country. How shall I ever pay for this sin?
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Jan 31, 2019 18:10
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Blue Nation posted:It was me, my complaining on a dead gay comedy forum destroyed my country. How shall I ever pay for this sin? A 12 hour van ride with the threads top tankies.
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Jan 31, 2019 18:12
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The only thing that can prevent US intervention, or intervention from any other imperialist government, is pressure from the citizens of these governments against their own rulers' foreign policy. With regards to the Venezuela situation this should be the top priority of any North American who actually gives a poo poo, because it's not up to them to cast judgment on how Venezuelans are running their country. What's the point of an English-language thread about a South-American government, on a US-based forum, where the only discussion allowed is condemnation of this government, and where criticism of US foreign policy with regards to it is forbidden. What is the point of this? What do you all think you're doing? If you really want to prevent US intervention, start reaching out to Americans and telling them to oppose their government in its attempts at regime change, and to counter the propaganda that justifies it.
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Jan 31, 2019 18:16
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Bob le Moche posted:What's the point of an English-language thread about a South-American government, on a US-based forum, where the only discussion allowed is condemnation of this government, and where criticism of US foreign policy with regards to it is forbidden. What is the point of this? What do you all think you're doing? you do realize that most ppl who post online, especially on a forum as small and inaccessible as DnD, about politics do it for entertainment and not as a form of activism right?
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Jan 31, 2019 18:20
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Typo posted:you do realize that most ppl who post online, especially on a forum as small and inaccessible as DnD, about politics do it for entertainment and not as a form of activism right?
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Jan 31, 2019 18:21
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Typo posted:you do realize that most ppl who post online, especially on a forum as small and inaccessible as DnD, about politics do it for entertainment and not as a form of activism right? Your excuse is also the one used by people who spent the last few years posting "ironic" fascism and pepe memes on 4chan
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Jan 31, 2019 18:24
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Bob le Moche posted:Your excuse is also the one used by people who spent the last few years posting "ironic" fascism and pepe memes on 4chan but 4chan was only notable because they actively start brigading facebook/twitter/reddit etc in other words, because they went from posting in their own insular message board to actively trying to reach larger audiences also are you essentially saying -any- criticism of Venezuelan government written in english is tantamount to supporting fascism?
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Jan 31, 2019 18:27
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Presenting Nipples posted:Yes What particular expertise did the author of the report have in relevant areas, might one ask? What was his area of specific competency?
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Jan 31, 2019 18:29
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Rust Martialis posted:What particular expertise did the author of the report have in relevant areas, might one ask? What was his area of specific competency? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred-Maurice_de_Zayas
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Jan 31, 2019 18:32
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Bob le Moche posted:The only thing that can prevent US intervention, or intervention from any other imperialist government, is pressure from the citizens of these governments against their own rulers' foreign policy. With regards to the Venezuela situation this should be the top priority of any North American who actually gives a poo poo, because it's not up to them to cast judgment on how Venezuelans are running their country. I can't believe I'm seriously reading an argument that claims the Trump administration and the State Department are taking their cues from a publicly inaccessible, tiny comedy forum for aging millenials that peaked over a decade ago. If people feel so strongly about non-intervention in Venezuela, they should take to twitter or calling their elected representatives. However, most of the anti-intervention people I've seen on twitter have been the usual suspects in small academic circles or the far left, hardly a convincing choir of voices to effect change in the Trump administration.
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Jan 31, 2019 18:32
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elgatofilo posted:I can't believe I'm seriously reading an argument that claims the Trump administration and the State Department are taking their cues from a publicly inaccessible, tiny comedy forum for aging millenials that peaked over a decade ago. You’re not
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Jan 31, 2019 18:33
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Typo posted:but 4chan was only notable because they actively start brigading facebook/twitter/reddit etc in other words, because they went from posting in their own insular message board to actively trying to reach larger audiences Bob le Moche isn't new to this song and dance and he's been put on ignore by any regular of this thread. He constantly comes on, engages in bad faiths arguments supporting Maduro then leaves after enough time.
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Jan 31, 2019 18:33
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https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonnyc/status/1090807153068306432?s=21
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Jan 31, 2019 18:34
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Found an actual 2018 UN report on human rights in Venezuela. Oddly the other report by the one rapporteur doesn't mention any of this. https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Countries/VE/VenezuelaReport2018_EN.pdf quote:Deep economic recession, hyperinflation and the loss of purchasing power, together with the
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Jan 31, 2019 18:34
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I love the whole “serially elide the first word of the article title and fail to link it until prompted, leaving no doubt about my bad faith” schtick
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Jan 31, 2019 18:37
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I've seen interviews by this guy and he's pretty much 100% in the tank for Maduro. For example: quote:Now, we all believe in democracy. Your program is called Democracy Now! Now, there’s nothing more undemocratic than a coup d’état, and also boycotting elections. As you know, there have been 26, 27 elections in Venezuela since Chávez was elected in 1998. So, if you want to play the game, you have to participate in the elections. And if the opposition refused to participate in the elections, they bear responsibility for the situation that has ensued. quote:We have here an unconstitutional situation in which the legislature is usurping competences that belongs to the executive and to the judiciary. The judiciary has already declared all of these actions and declarations of the National Assembly to be unconstitutional. quote:Now, when I went to Venezuela, I again took the opportunity to interview representatives of Amnesty International and PROVEA and the other opposition NGOs, but I also had the opportunity to study the documents, to compare, to see the statistics, etc., etc. And, of course, there was no humanitarian crisis. There was hunger. There was, what we say in Spanish, zozobra. https://dezayasalfred.wordpress.com/2019/01/25/former-u-n-expert-the-u-s-is-violating-international-law-by-attempting-a-coup-in-venezuela/ These are the standard propaganda lines from pro-Bolivarian Revolution partisans. "The only bad thing about the election is that the opposition sabotaged it", "the impartial Supreme Court says they're wrong," "everyone's just a wee bit hungry." Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jan 31, 2019 |
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Jan 31, 2019 18:38
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I see he was named a "UN Independent Expert on the Promotion of a Democratic and Equitable International Order" until May last year. I wonder why his report is so wildly varying from the 2018 OHCHR report on the causes of the food shortages? I find that curious.
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Jan 31, 2019 18:39
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Tag yourselves I’m “amnesty international and other opposition orgs”
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Jan 31, 2019 18:40
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I found a list of OHCHR Independent Experts. It seems they gave assigned areas of expertise. I note the gentleman in question was not an expert in economics, food, or really, any really relevant area. Oddly he was one of the only Independent Experts *permitted * into Venezuela. Funny that.quote:The independent experts are:
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Jan 31, 2019 18:44
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Pedro De Heredia posted:I've seen interviews by this guy and he's pretty much 100% in the tank for Maduro. Yeah we get it, any source that contradicts the opposition narrative is “in the tank for Maduro”
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Jan 31, 2019 18:46
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This is reminding me I need to do a deepdive on intra-UN politics and appointments sometime; it’s a total shitshow.
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Jan 31, 2019 18:46
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Frankly, from an electoral perspective, the only people likely to remember this by the time 2020 rolls around are Latinos in South Florida. This is a pretty transparent play for Florida in 2020 and it's frankly likely to succeed. Trump won FL in 2016 by a razor thing margin, so every vote counts. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/30/trump-venezuela-florida-policy-1138307 quote:“There’s a great camaraderie with different groups that have been victims of leftist movements: Colombians who fled FARC, and Nicaraguans who fled Ortega twice,” Curbelo said. “So yeah, there are just a few thousand Venezuelan voters. But everyone in Miami hates Nicolás Maduro. And if Trump wins by 20,000 votes, this will be why.”
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Jan 31, 2019 18:47
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Funny how the pro-coup posters have coopted the liberal tactic of dismissing inconvenient truths as “talking points”. They know their audience well lol
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Jan 31, 2019 18:50
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it won't be cause Trump will tweet out some racist epithet of venezuelans by 2020
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Jan 31, 2019 18:51
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Chomskyan posted:Yeah we get it, any source that contradicts the opposition narrative is “in the tank for Maduro” You can find leftist, even pro-Bolivarian revolution sources that contradict this narrative. For example, here's an article in Jacobin (originally from NACLA), by Gabriel Hetland: quote:A series of government actions since early 2016 has made it increasingly difficult to contest the idea that Venezuela is moving in an authoritarian direction. First, throughout 2016 the Supreme Court, which is clearly and even openly subordinate to the executive branch, blocked the opposition-controlled National Assembly, which won the legislative majority in December 2015, from passing any major legislation. In some cases, the legislature was attempting to act beyond its authority, for example, in seeking to grant amnesty to prisoners like Leopoldo López. Yet the Supreme Court’s systematic blockage of the National Assembly effectively rendered the opposition’s newly captured legislative majority — and thus the December 2015 election results — null. Second, after months of foot-dragging, the government cancelled a constitutionally allowed recall referendum process in October 2016. At this point the only people insisting that there's nothing wrong with Venezuelan democracy are just shamelessly lying to you. Probably because someone's paying them to; they can't all be that stupid and have come up with the same arguments at the same time.
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Jan 31, 2019 18:53
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https://twitter.com/rokhanna/status/1090997456970616833?s=21
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