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I like to call mine a musclemancer tyvm
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Jan 31, 2019 17:57
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Warthur posted:Numenera's greatest invention is a title which it's even more tempting to do the Muppet "doot-doot, doo-doo-doo" after than "In Nomine". Back when he Kickstarted it, I asked Monte Cook how he pronounced "Numenera," and he said it's like "New Men Era." So it doesn't scan the same as "Mah Nà Mah Nà."
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Jan 31, 2019 18:06
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Numenera Numenera Hey, hey, hey Don't buy
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Jan 31, 2019 18:07
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I have a reasonably strong dislike of Numenera, but Cyphers as a mechanical idea ("give players one-time options to break encounters wide open") is something I love and have stolen for many other systems.
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Jan 31, 2019 18:10
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homullus posted:Back when he Kickstarted it, I asked Monte Cook how he pronounced "Numenera," and he said it's like "New Men Era." So it doesn't scan the same as "Mah Nà Mah Nà." How many syllables do you use to pronounce "Era" then?
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Jan 31, 2019 18:16
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Man I disliked the computer game but from what Rope Kid has been tweeting from the Pillars TRPG it looks like Ars Magica a lot...
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Jan 31, 2019 18:23
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homullus posted:Back when he Kickstarted it, I asked Monte Cook how he pronounced "Numenera," and he said it's like "New Men Era." So it doesn't scan the same as "Mah Nà Mah Nà."
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Jan 31, 2019 18:32
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Kurieg posted:How many syllables do you use to pronounce "Era" then? Scansion includes both the number of syllables and the stress placed on each. Compare "phenomenon" (doot-doot, doo-doo-doo).
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Jan 31, 2019 18:48
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homullus posted:Scansion includes both the number of syllables and the stress placed on each. Compare "phenomenon" (doot-doot, doo-doo-doo). Beware the pyrrhic spondee punch.
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Jan 31, 2019 20:11
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homullus posted:Scansion includes both the number of syllables and the stress placed on each. Compare "phenomenon" (doot-doot, doo-doo-doo). I’m not sure if you’re suggesting phenomenon scans perfectly or doesn’t scan at all. At least in my accent both phenomenon and numenera scan perfectly into manamana.
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Jan 31, 2019 20:22
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CitizenKeen posted:I have a reasonably strong dislike of Numenera, but Cyphers as a mechanical idea ("give players one-time options to break encounters wide open") is something I love and have stolen for many other systems. I'm not really familiar with that game, but how is this different from potions and scrolls? Or are Cyphers basically like those except really, really powerful?
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Jan 31, 2019 21:21
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Sage Genesis posted:I'm not really familiar with that game, but how is this different from potions and scrolls? Or are Cyphers basically like those except really, really powerful? Cyphers are, ideally, supposed to be mysterious things you don't fully understand but that clearly do something strange and useful. It's supposed to be a little more interesting than just "heal 1d8 hp" or "cast It's an okay basic idea, but, you know. Monte Cook Presents a Monte Cook Game by Monte Cook.
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Jan 31, 2019 21:44
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Reveilled posted:I’m not sure if you’re suggesting phenomenon scans perfectly or doesn’t scan at all. At least in my accent both phenomenon and numenera scan perfectly into manamana. are you saying NU me NER ah or are you saying nu MEN er AH? If the former, it does not scan, if the latter, you have a very strange accent
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Jan 31, 2019 21:47
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Leperflesh posted:are you saying NU me NER ah or are you saying nu MEN er AH? who the gently caress says "MA na MA na" it scans with the latter
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Jan 31, 2019 21:51
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:who the gently caress says "MA na MA na" Exactly. But numenera is pronounced the former way.
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Jan 31, 2019 21:52
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Leperflesh posted:Exactly. But numenera is pronounced the former way. Numenera is not a real word with typical usage, and whatever stress pattern one thinks appropriate is equally correct.
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Jan 31, 2019 21:59
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Joe Slowboat posted:Numenera is not a real word with typical usage, and whatever stress pattern one thinks appropriate is equally correct. that's true, but most english speakers will default to numen-era, partially for linguistic reasons and partially because numen is a real word, and era is a real word, and the title is an obvious compound word, I mean, it's not pronounced, "Pan-ka-kay"
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Jan 31, 2019 22:09
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It is only right now that I have realized it's Numenera, not Numenara.
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Jan 31, 2019 22:11
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Mors Rattus posted:It is only right now that I have realized it's Numenera, not Numenara. it is Not A Good Name
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Jan 31, 2019 22:12
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Halloween Jack posted:Numenera This, however, both scans and contains valuable survival advice for a world not meant for humans.
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Jan 31, 2019 22:18
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Impermanent posted:that's true, but most english speakers will default to numen-era, partially for linguistic reasons and partially because numen is a real word, and era is a real word, and the title is an obvious compound word, What are these “linguistic reasons” you cite? Like actual ones not your tummy feels.
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Jan 31, 2019 22:47
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Joe Slowboat posted:Numenera is not a real word with typical usage, and whatever stress pattern one thinks appropriate is equally correct. Normally I think some deference is given to the author who invents a name if they provide a pronunciation, though. And of course anyone can pronounce anything however they please, but a novel usage draws attention to itself and may trigger cognitive dissonance to listeners who must interrupt their attention to meaning briefly to puzzle out what the speaker might be intending. In poetry and by extension song, this can mean something "just sounds wrong" to the listener. A poet who understands meter and rhyme well can use this device intentionally, of course, but more often it gives the impression of a lack of skill. Probably that's what prompted people to pick on Warthur's comment to begin with.
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Jan 31, 2019 22:55
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https://twitter.com/hexcrawl/status/1090452881952645121 This comment at the end of his thread trying to justify his nonsense boggles my mind.
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Jan 31, 2019 22:58
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Why does his av picture look like one of Tobias Funke's "leading man" headshots?
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Jan 31, 2019 23:00
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Xiahou Dun posted:What are these “linguistic reasons” you cite? Like actual ones not your tummy feels. English has rules about which syllables are emphasized. Complicated ones, with many exceptions. If a new word is coined for use in English and the author doesn't want it pronounced with emphasis according to the convention, there are tools available to tell the reader, although many (maybe most) English speakers/readers are not well skilled in their usage. https://www.druide.com/en/reports/using-accents-and-diacritics-english
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Jan 31, 2019 23:01
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Leperflesh posted:English has rules about which syllables are emphasized. Complicated ones, with many exceptions. If a new word is coined for use in English and the author doesn't want it pronounced with emphasis according to the convention, there are tools available to tell the reader, although many (maybe most) English speakers/readers are not well skilled in their usage. Yes but this isn't an English word. (I'm a linguistics professor.)
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Jan 31, 2019 23:14
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Sage Genesis posted:I'm not really familiar with that game, but how is this different from potions and scrolls? It isn't and they aren't. Numenera is just D&D with a vague Book of the New Sun patina over it.
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Jan 31, 2019 23:16
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This is an English speaker coining a proper noun in an English work: and when asked, he provided a pronunciation guide which also obeys the conventional emphasis.homullus posted:Back when he Kickstarted it, I asked Monte Cook how he pronounced "Numenera," and he said it's like "New Men Era." So it doesn't scan the same as "Mah Nà Mah Nà."
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Jan 31, 2019 23:16
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Y'all putting more creativity into this argument than went into Numa Numa Nera.
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Jan 31, 2019 23:17
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Leperflesh posted:are you saying NU me NER ah or are you saying nu MEN er AH? Sure, but if as you suggest we give deference to the author, you're supposed to pronounce it like "New Men Era". "NU me NER ah" can't be the right way to pronounce it, because "men" has to be its own syllable. I'd instinctively pronounce it like "NU me NER ah", but that doesn't sound like "new men era", it sounds like "New meh nerah" or "New menera". At least to me.
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Jan 31, 2019 23:21
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Leperflesh posted:This is an English speaker coining a proper noun in an English work: and when asked, he provided a pronunciation guide which also obeys the conventional emphasis. English stress is more complicated than you think, its orthography is really not good at explicating stress, and the joke was funny. Native English speakers read a made-up word differently from you, calm down. You also haven't actually given a reason why the stress should be where you want it to be. English doesn't have a uniform stress pattern in regards to syllables (it's not like French or Hungarian or whatever), as we can see in examples like "content" the adjective and "content" the noun or "digest" the verb and "digest" the noun. And again, it's a made up word. I can make up words that don't obey my native language's phonology. "Ktot". There, I just did it.
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Jan 31, 2019 23:24
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I just automatically pronounce unfamiliar words with Japanese syllables. Nu-me-ne-ra.
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Jan 31, 2019 23:25
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If you really want it there's an RPG that works for both lines anyway. TMNT And Other Strangeness
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Jan 31, 2019 23:26
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Really thought it was Numenara (pronounced 'Noo-men-ahr-a'). I find the additional e unpleasant and shan't be acknowledging its presence in the future.
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Jan 31, 2019 23:36
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Reveilled posted:Sure, but if as you suggest we give deference to the author, you're supposed to pronounce it like "New Men Era". "NU me NER ah" can't be the right way to pronounce it, because "men" has to be its own syllable. I'd instinctively pronounce it like "NU me NER ah", but that doesn't sound like "new men era", it sounds like "New meh nerah" or "New menera". At least to me. The emphasis winds up on the E in either case, it's really hard to emphasize a consonant. Xiahou Dun posted:English stress is more complicated than you think, its orthography is really not good at explicating stress, and the joke was funny. Convention always trumps the general rule but that doesn't mean the rule is entirely absent. In this case I think the rule is combining stress on the first syllable for proper nouns with secondary stress on the penultimate syllable especially for those ending in a vowel. Compare to: Minnesota, Alabama, Madagascar, Londonderry, and contrast to an exception like Australia (but perhaps the slang 'Stralya is used in part because the deemphasized first syllable is weird?). e. And just to acknowledge what your'e saying, I'm very much aware that English pronunciation is ridiculously complicated. I think this whole discussion exemplifies why (especially fantasy) authors should pay more attention to how they spell and guide pronunciation of their made-up proper nouns. Cook could have written Numenéra and made things more clear. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jan 31, 2019 |
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Jan 31, 2019 23:48
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Leperflesh posted:The emphasis winds up on the E in either case, it's really hard to emphasize a consonant. The slang is 'straya, everything else gets dropped hth.
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Jan 31, 2019 23:51
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Leperflesh posted:The emphasis winds up on the E in either case, it's really hard to emphasize a consonant. This argument is just surreal. THIS ISN'T AN ENGLISH WORD. Secondly, what you said about English stress patterns isn't a "rule" ; it's something you pulled out of your rear end. And your examples are not natively English words either. It's very weird. Also I have a masters and most of a PhD in this, why are you trying to do this weird stress-splaining thing???? Specified in the beginning that I wanted these supposed "linguistic factors" and none have come up. You're just making poo poo up. You don't actually know anything about language just from speaking a language, please stop. It's a made up word and we can pronounce it however we want cause it's not like he gave an IPA transcription. I could make a perfectly cogent argument (in very bad faith) that it should be pronounced /kɛvɪn/, cause we're just making poo poo up based on a fake orthography made by a hack. Please dear god drop this stupid loving argument. We don't even know whatever the hell language this is supposed to be in has stress. Maybe it's mora-timed. Maybe it's stress-less. Maybe it's god drat tonal. The made up word was not created to have this much detail because Cook doesn't know anything about language.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:05
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Leperflesh posted:The emphasis winds up on the E in either case, it's really hard to emphasize a consonant. I figured the easiest way to explain how I'm getting to the result I've got would be to record it: https://vocaroo.com/i/s0nOONzhTJB8
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Feb 1, 2019 00:07
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Xiahou Dun posted:This argument is just surreal. Don't forget this whole thing started because we were joking about it wrong.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:08
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Xiahou Dun posted:
I learned the concepts Xihaou Dun is explaining to Leperflesh in a loving first year survey course, no less, like you don't even need to have the masters to know this if you've studied linguistics almost at all. Which Leperflesh clearly hasn't and legitimately needs to quit while he's ahead on this.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:10
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