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GreyjoyBastard posted:Guaido with an accent mark over the o that none of us can be bothered to remember how to type Did you know that the AR in AR-15 stands for “Assault Rifle”?
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Jan 31, 2019 23:59
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Chomskyan posted:Did you know that the AR in AR-15 stands for “Assault Rifle”? on the one hand I guess I missed the joke, on the other hand pedantic corrections are part of my brand
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Feb 1, 2019 00:00
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elgatofilo posted:It's super simple and not confusing: No one insinuated anything of the sort. Nice meltdown. Rust Martialis posted:You keep saying this, but you have not posted anything that says PDVSA will be *privatized*. https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-backs-coup-oil-rich-venezuela-right-wing-opposition-plans-mass-privatization-hyper-capitalism/254194/ quote:“[C]entralized controls, arbitrary measures of expropriation and other similar measures will be abolished… For these purposes, the centralized model of controls of the economy will be replaced by a model of freedom and market based on the right of each Venezuelan to work under the guarantees of property rights and freedom of enterprise.”
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Feb 1, 2019 00:13
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Presenting Nipples posted:No one insinuated anything of the sort. Nice meltdown. I'm sorry you don't like being called a racist. Stop doubling down on your racism if that's the case. I would really like to know what it is about Venezuela that turns supposed liberals into MAGA hat wearing Breitbart readers. (lol, the answer is racism)
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Feb 1, 2019 00:24
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Homeless Friend posted:You're argument rest solely on this assumption it seems to me. What do you think it would do for a country that is in a crisis, has mass hunger, high levels of corruptions and some of the worst violence in the world? Anything is better than the status quo which is one of the worst run countries in the world with the most rapid decline of any country over the past few years. Of course Maduro stepping down would be ideal, even if it ends up not working fantastically, even a minor change is going to cause a lot of net good.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:29
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elgatofilo posted:I'm sorry you don't like being called a racist. Stop doubling down on your racism if that's the case. Can you point to one example of me being racist or are you just going to continue to meltdown?
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Feb 1, 2019 00:30
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Chomskyan posted:Did you know that the AR in AR-15 stands for “Assault Rifle”?
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Feb 1, 2019 00:37
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patonthebach posted:What do you think it would do for a country that is in a crisis, has mass hunger, high levels of corruptions and some of the worst violence in the world? Anything is better than the status quo That is where we part. It is wishful thinking, not a plan. It is amazingly optimistic to imply that anything is better than the status quo. If mass hunger was the issue, it would could be easily solved by a nation as powerful as the U.S. No particulars on why corruption would go down. Why would violence be reduced exactly? Just because Maduro is gone? If the material conditions stay the same how will Venezuelans react, I wonder, and how will the new government react to them in turn. How is Guaido going to turn it around? Nobody quite seems to have the answer. Just a great deal of faith.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:47
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Presenting Nipples posted:Can you point to one example of me being racist or are you just going to continue to meltdown? Presenting Nipples posted:I'm seriously confused at your ramblings on race at this point. I would seriously love to see you tweet this to Ta-Nehisi Coates or say it out loud to any person of color talking about their experiences with race and see what kind of response you get. Hint: It's not the duty of people of color to educate you on race. If you're confused about something on race, the correct response is not to tell a PoC that they're rambling and having a meltdown.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:47
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Homeless Friend posted:If mass hunger was the issue, it would could be easily solved by a nation as powerful as the U.S. How do you propose the US gets to deliver food all across Venezuela without contravening the authority of the PSUV and Maduro? Just wondering here.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:54
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elgatofilo posted:I would seriously love to see you tweet this to Ta-Nehisi Coates or say it out loud to any person of color talking about their experiences with race and see what kind of response you get. Ta-Nehisi Coates is a liberal Obama apologist, who the gently caress cares about his opinion. You seemed to deny that racism existed in Venezuela or say that by simply discussing racism I was reinforcing it? I'm not really sure as it was incoherent.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:55
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fishmech posted:How do you propose the US gets to deliver food all across Venezuela without contravening the authority of the PSUV and Maduro? Just wondering here.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:55
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fishmech posted:How do you propose the US gets to deliver food all across Venezuela without contravening the authority of the PSUV and Maduro? Just wondering here. Maduro accepted UN aid in december, do it through the UN. If he refuses, smuggle it in. Flood the market. A wasteful plan, but no less wasteful than anything else the U.S. does. What could be the criticism, we harmed a market already done in by price controls? Fed the starving?
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Feb 1, 2019 00:59
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Homeless Friend posted:Maduro accepted UN aid in december, do it through the UN. If he refuses, smuggle it in. Flood the market. A wasteful plan, but no less wasteful than anything else the U.S. does. What could be the criticism, we harmed a market already done in by price controls? Fed the starving? Considering the PSUV, associated paramilitaries, and the Venezuelan military already heavily diverts food for resale, I don't see how this does anything to guarantee the food gets to the people who need it.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:02
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Seems like it'd be more likely to be seized by the military and sold off/given to its own than going to most citizens given how people in this thread have spoken either from experience or via articles.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:03
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fishmech posted:Considering the PSUV, associated paramilitaries, and the Venezuelan military already heavily diverts food for resale, I don't see how this does anything to guarantee the food gets to the people who need it. Then we'll have their measure in absolute confidence. In a situation of over abundance, which we constructed, they left people starving. It's useful whether it works or not.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:09
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Homeless Friend posted:Then we'll have their measure in absolute confidence. In a situation of over abundance, which we constructed, they left people starving. It's useful whether it works or not. This sure sounds like you're proposing at the minimum, the US flagrantly violating all Venezuelan border and airspace controls, in order to accomplish that task!
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Feb 1, 2019 01:10
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fishmech posted:This sure sounds like you're proposing at the minimum, the US flagrantly violating all Venezuelan border and airspace controls, in order to accomplish that task! Ya the US had been intervening In venezuela for a while. What I suggest would be something that would happen by someone intervening in good faith, at the least, rather than flagrant self interest.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:15
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Homeless Friend posted:Then we'll have their measure in absolute confidence. In a situation of over abundance, which we constructed, they left people starving. It's useful whether it works or not. TBH I think anyone who has followed the economic situation in Venezuela already has a pretty good measure of this sort of "socialist" "organization" of the "economy". Sure, some tankies are "socialist labelblind" aka since someone at some point has declared Venezuela to be "socialist", it now means that the country can hath no fault and all woes are solely due to aggressive imperialistic CIA operations. But for sane people, you couldn't really watch Venezuela news for the last ten or so years and not have a very confident assessment about economic policy there. imo
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Feb 1, 2019 01:23
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Homeless Friend posted:Ya the US had been intervening In venezuela for a while. What I suggest would be something that would happen by someone intervening in good faith, at the least, rather than flagrant self interest. is intervening in Venezuela actually in the US's best interest tho
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Feb 1, 2019 01:33
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Flavahbeast posted:is intervening in Venezuela actually in the US's best interest tho probably not
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Feb 1, 2019 01:36
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Homeless Friend posted:Maduro accepted UN aid in december, do it through the UN. If he refuses, smuggle it in. Flood the market. A wasteful plan, but no less wasteful than anything else the U.S. does. What could be the criticism, we harmed a market already done in by price controls? Fed the starving? Would you support intervention if the US supplied boatloads of free food to Venezuela, and Maduro then filmed himself pissing on all of it and dumping it into the ocean?
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Feb 1, 2019 01:39
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Berke Negri posted:probably not But the question is genuinely a lot more if the people in charge think it is, and that they'll definitely get it right in latin america this time. qkkl posted:Would you support intervention if the US supplied boatloads of free food to Venezuela, and Maduro then filmed himself pissing on all of it and dumping it into the ocean? I would actually take that to be further proof that US intervention of any sort doesn't appear to be productive or beneficial, and assume it would mean we should stop shipping food to Venezuela. But he wouldn't do that. He'd forward it to loyalist enclaves in a continuation of his food weaponization that's been documented for at least four years.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:46
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I'd extremely support any intervention that's a) working closely with the venezuelan people to get food and medicine to the people that need it, b) is done by people I could trust to not just add more problems on top of the already existing ones. US isn't any of these, they could already be doing the first if they actually gave a poo poo, and lol at trusting trump's idiot friends to do the second.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:57
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Homeless Friend posted:Ya the US had been intervening In venezuela for a while. What I suggest would be something that would happen by someone intervening in good faith, at the least, rather than flagrant self interest. Please describe how the US has been intervening in Venezuela in a way comparable to forcing through millions of pounds of goods per month "for a while".
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Feb 1, 2019 02:03
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Truga posted:I'd extremely support any intervention that's I am also against a US intervention but consider a) Amount of people who die without intervention: Possibly a lot b) Countries who have no strategic (oil) interest in the 'zela: None I mean on the one hand, I'd say let China have a go for once. But one the other hand, CCP is happily genociding brown people so they don't have ways to fall moral wise
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Feb 1, 2019 02:20
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Presenting Nipples posted:
See I read that several times now, and nowhere is PDVSA mentioned. I agree there is mention of reversing the arbitrary nationalization of companies done by the government. Since PDVSA was nationalized over 40 years ago, it would take a galaxy brain I do not posess to believe this refers to PDVSA. So, where is the reference to privatizing PDVSA?
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Feb 1, 2019 02:23
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On my phone, but I basically imagine this scenario of the U.S. being a good faith actor going through the UN (compromised as it is) multiple times. At the very least, any intervention would be a last resort, basically and have some multinational /international legitimacy. Let's be clear, this is basically in the level of Sorkin'esqe fantasy though folks. The US back in the real world has no such intentions. fishmech posted:Please describe how the US has been intervening in Venezuela in a way comparable to forcing through millions of pounds of goods per month "for a while". Theres that time the US was involved in the Chavez coup, that was like 90 billion gdp country switching hands right there.
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Feb 1, 2019 02:24
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caps on caps on caps posted:I am also against a US intervention but consider It's pretty clear China and Russia are closer to just writing off their investments in Venezuela as a loss than they are to "have a go" at intervention. Maduro as been so idiotic as to squander practically all of their assistance under his government. That they are now demanding payment for everything upfront and in hard assets is not a sign of confidence.
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Feb 1, 2019 02:26
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Homeless Friend posted:
Got it, you have zero valid examples. OK then. Would you care to think of an example that's actually comparable to the sheer amount of territorial violation required to supply a nation with a population comparable to Canada against the will of its government?
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Feb 1, 2019 02:27
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Rust Martialis posted:See I read that several times now, and nowhere is PDVSA mentioned. I agree there is mention of reversing the arbitrary nationalization of companies done by the government. Since PDVSA was nationalized over 40 years ago, it would take a galaxy brain I do not posess to believe this refers to PDVSA. You are really smart. I am amazed at the inability of anyone who is pro US-Coup to do any research on the subject and continue to demand evidence. Once evidence is presented the goal posts get moved again. The law clearly outlines privatize of a number of industries which is going to quite clearly include the oil industry to anyone who isn’t oblivious to the situation. It’s also all over US press and John Bolton literally salivated at the prospect. A literal child can find this information in 1 minute. https://www.mintpressnews.com/venezuela-us-backed-coup-leader-immediately-targets-state-oil-company-requests-imf-money/254282/
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Feb 1, 2019 02:34
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fishmech posted:Got it, you have zero valid examples. OK then. Would you care to think of an example that's actually comparable to the sheer amount of territorial violation required to supply a nation with a population comparable to Canada against the will of its government? Yes it'd be a first. The US could be proud.
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Feb 1, 2019 02:40
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Presenting Nipples posted:You are really smart. I am amazed at the inability of anyone who is pro US-Coup to do any research on the subject and continue to demand evidence. Once evidence is presented the goal posts get moved again. I just want to point out that "mint press news" is an assad apologist rag. Wikipedia posted:
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Feb 1, 2019 02:45
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Venezuela should intervene in america since it has a corrupt president that is widely hated and dangerous, and used illegal and shady tactics to block legitimate votes in several areas, while the american people freeze to death on the streets. They could support a coup by center left candidate Hillary Clinton
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Feb 1, 2019 02:46
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Homeless Friend posted:Yes it'd be a first. The US could be proud. I'm baffled that you seem to be arguing against intervention in favor of even more massive intervention.
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Feb 1, 2019 02:51
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Let's do a compromise that everyone can get behind: new elections in both the US and Venezuela with UN observers and no restrictions on who can run for office
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Feb 1, 2019 02:51
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Flavahbeast posted:Let's do a compromise that everyone can get behind: new elections in both the US and Venezuela with UN observers and no restrictions on who can run for office Boring. Make it a caged death match instead, itll even entertain the kids
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Feb 1, 2019 02:56
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Control Volume posted:Boring. Make it a caged death match instead, itll even entertain the kids I'm liking this idea but I'd put Donnie up against Maduro. One fat man enters, one fat man leaves.
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Feb 1, 2019 02:59
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See I don't think this thread is really accurately summarizing the situation with food aid to Venezuela. I've watched the news, I've seen the videos. There's no way the government is seizing it and selling it off. No way. Maduro is just eating all of it himself. People posting like Venezuela is Iraq it's really Kirby's Dream Land
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Feb 1, 2019 03:05
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I guess that's an added level of on type visual surrealism to the whole waning-years-of-a-dictator imagery of Maduro. An authoritarian starts to look like he's gorged himself and/or stress eaten his way to hypertension, while he presides over a country he's inflicted crisis food insecurity and growing malnutrition on. For bonus points, have it conclude with that he keeps getting larger for a few years and then keels over with a LAD widowmaker, which will obviously, of course, have been a targeted CIA killing.
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Feb 1, 2019 03:18
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