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Goons Are Great posted:Apologies, didn't think of reading the op To give you a primer about Conclave's council: 1. The most powerful vassals in your realm expect to be on your council. If they are not, then they get a massive -40 opinion penalty. Which can be a bit of a problem, making your most powerful vassals mad at you is rarely a good thing. So you have to juggle your councilors a bit. Some of your powerful vassals (PVs) will have good stats, and they are not a problem. Then you need to consider whether it's safe to leave some of your PVs out, and install somebody with higher stats, or if you can live with a less competent councilor. If you're a king or emperor, you get one or two advisor slots in your council, where you can park PVs with bad stats. 2. An empowered council will vote on law changes, and quite a lot of other things, depending on how much power the council has. Read the law panel carefully. For example, with an empowered council, you can force realm peace on your vassals, making all internal wars end inconclusively. If your council can vote on war declarations, then your council members cannot join factions against you, except for the "increase council power" faction. One thing you definitely don't want to happen is to fully empower the council. That makes it impossible for you to fire councilors and locks succession into elective monarchy. That's hard mode. 3. Be very wary of allowing the council to vote on title grants. If you win a holy war or one of the special CBs (invasion for example), you can end up with a lot of titles. Making your vassals unhappy because you're far above your demesne limit, and/or hold too many duchies. Then you unhappy councilors will refuse to vote for your title grants, making it impossible to get rid of your excess titles. This may cause a death spiral of unhappy vassals and rebellions. 4. Councilors have certain attitudes towards you. Loyalists will always vote with you, malcontents always against you. Zealot will approve stripping titles of unbelievers and waging war on heretics. Glory hound will not vote for war against much weaker enemies, while they will vote for wars against stronger neighbors. Pragmatists will do the opposite. 5. No councilor will vote against his interests. If you want to revoke one of you councilor's titles, he will vote against that even if he's a loyalist. 6. You can use favors to force vassals to vote with you. They can use favors to force you to initiate a vote for certain law changes. Be careful here. 7. You can overrule your council and declare war/imprison somebody/revoke someone's titles/etc. But this will incur a tyranny opinion penalty with all vassals. It will also make your council discontent for a few years, which makes your councilors eligible to join factions again. 8. You council will also be discontent upon succession for a while. Note that during a regency, the council can vote on any action as if the council was fully empowered, and you cannot overrule them like you could if you were an adult. So be aware that things can be dicey during regencies. Since you're so weak, it's not always a bad idea to cede more power to the council when they ask for it, in order to keep them happy. You can reduce council power again once your char reaches adulthood.
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Feb 1, 2019 15:51
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Torrannor posted:If your council can vote on war declarations, then your council members cannot join factions against you, except for the "increase council power" faction. Wow, I never knew that edit: elective monarchy can be the easiest succession mode, in ideal conditions. In my current game I have an empire title I created, so the only electors are the dukes on my original kingdom. Since this kingdom is only 4 duchys, I arranged things to hold 3 of them myself. This way I can choose whoever I want as heir at any time. Of course I get some "too many held duchys" malus (-10) and a "elector titles hold" malus too (-15), but thats pretty manageable
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Feb 1, 2019 16:04
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Torrannor posted:5. No councilor will vote against his interests. If you want to revoke one of you councilor's titles, he will vote against that even if he's a loyalist. Also one "buff" that conclave councils actually provide over base game is that in base game, some law changes (don't remember which ones) requires all count+ to have a positive opinion of you. In large empires, this can be near impossible. Conclave greatly simplifies that into the rest of the council system. lurksion fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 16:06
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Elias_Maluco posted:Wow, I never knew that Yes, you can cheese elective monarchy if you stay small enough. But if you grow larger, this will break down at some point. Unless you do very gamey things like keeping one province deliberately outside you empire so that it's de jure kingdom doesn't drift into your empire. I've delved a bit into the CK2wiki. It's true that members of a content council cannot join factions, but I can't find the exception for the "increase council powers" faction. I was like 95% sure that this was the case, but can't seem to find it on the wiki. Can anybody check in-game? I don't have CK2 installed at the moment.
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Feb 1, 2019 16:13
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Torrannor posted:Yes, you can cheese elective monarchy if you stay small enough. But if you grow larger, this will break down at some point. Unless you do very gamey things like keeping one province deliberately outside you empire so that it's de jure kingdom doesn't drift into your empire. Hum, Ill start to have problems when more land starts dejure drifting to my empire, but that takes a long time to happen
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Feb 1, 2019 16:22
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Nah they can't even join council power factions. I almost always empower the council to that point to make them easier to control once I hit King and Empire level.
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Feb 1, 2019 16:28
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lurksion posted:#6 overrides #5 though, which can be amusing. Succession laws change still require that, even with conclave on
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Feb 1, 2019 16:42
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This sounds really interesting. A bit like being almighty emperor VS having a council that's basically an aristocratic senate with you being merely it's lead figure. I feel like I missed a lot by not having conclave the past 300 hours of playing. Time to fix that. Also, while I didn't test it with conclave yet, I actually was a friend of elective monarchy in the past. It's loving hard to stay in the game, but it brings so many options and necessities with it, that in bad cases I spent like 50% of my game time trying to make sure my son or anyone I can play with gets elected after my character dies. That may sound like a bad thing, but I actually enjoy this constant struggle for power, as it makes it very hard but also quite realistic and opens up perspective that you can lose without being killed by that one pseudo-loyal vassal you gave three kingdoms to.
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Feb 1, 2019 17:12
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With conclave (I think its required, but Im not sure) you can also use favors to force electors to support your nomination, which also makes managing elective easier
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Feb 1, 2019 17:17
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Elias_Maluco posted:With conclave (I think its required, but Im not sure) you can also use favors to force electors to support your nomination, which also makes managing elective easier I never dare owe anyone a favour because they instantly ask for my best county. And I never seem to be owed favours except by landless foreigners of no use whatsoever. What am I doing wrong?
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Feb 1, 2019 17:25
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Oh dear me posted:I never dare owe anyone a favour because they instantly ask for my best county. And I never seem to be owed favours except by landless foreigners of no use whatsoever. What am I doing wrong? I can also buy favors (they not always accept, but mostly do, when you have good relations) Thats how I usually get mine Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 17:29
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Goons Are Great posted:This sounds really interesting. A bit like being almighty emperor VS having a council that's basically an aristocratic senate with you being merely it's lead figure. And there's the fun of systematically clawing away at their power until they're a useless social club, to boot. Painting the map is one thing, turning your loose confederation of pagan tribes into a theocratic absolute monarchy is another.
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Feb 1, 2019 18:06
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The sad part is when you fall into a regency and the fucker bumps council power all the way up- again
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Feb 1, 2019 18:36
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Yeah exactly, I can only imagine this being great and changing the entire scope of the game, as stability is a whole new thing like that. So far started a game, excited about conclave, got depression in my first year and died off it shortly after my wife got pregnant, most likely from another man. This game rocks.
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Feb 1, 2019 21:05
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Elias_Maluco posted:The sad part is when you fall into a regency and the fucker bumps council power all the way up- again Always go with a regent that is content and likes you as much as possible and pray he doesn't get ratfucked out of his position by some rear end in a top hat. Also avoid greedy regents. Oh dear me posted:I never dare owe anyone a favour because they instantly ask for my best county. And I never seem to be owed favours except by landless foreigners of no use whatsoever. What am I doing wrong? I've never had this happen. They always use them to get a council position in my experience, and if they're already on the council, they use it to start a vote to empower the council further.
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Feb 1, 2019 22:03
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Can you inherit threatening from another character? I was nicely hovering at 75% but then I died and my son (and heir) who I installed on another kingdom’s throne took over both kingdoms and now I’m at 100%. So I’m not sure if he was just being an rear end in a top hat to his neighbours in the interim or if inheriting large portions of land is deemed threatening
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Feb 2, 2019 02:01
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Any kind of expansion can set it off, I think. I got some from offering vassalizations after I founded a kingdom.
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Feb 2, 2019 02:12
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Threat doesn't care how specifically warmongering you are, it's all about size and how fast you're growing. Your clever little eugenics program is just as threatening as a massive hellwar. Even if you peacefully ask somebody to swear allegiance, threat goes up. It's a very simple system to make NPCs wary about big empires and let them band together against a real threat beyond normal alliance rules, but they really should've rejiggered them at some point. I see them forming against other non-player nations every so often, I wonder how much that changes things.
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Feb 2, 2019 02:17
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They always form against who you'd expect though. Byzantines, Abbasids, HRE, Karlings, Nomads, etc. Any of the blobby groups are the ones you always see with defensive pacts against them. Oddly enough I almost never see pacts against even successful pagans. Like I've seen games where Germanic or even Suomenusko is doing really drat well but somehow they don't get pacts. Iunno, maybe vassals get their own threat level or something so all those tribes doing their thing never really build up enough threat for their liege?
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Feb 2, 2019 04:38
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Hey weird question that just popped into my head. Can your spouse divorce you or is that purely a tool for the player?
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Feb 2, 2019 08:40
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I don't think I've ever seen the AI use divorce so I would assume it can't. They will happily plot to murder you though.
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Feb 2, 2019 08:49
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Honky Dong Country posted:They always form against who you'd expect though. Byzantines, Abbasids, HRE, Karlings, Nomads, etc. Any of the blobby groups are the ones you always see with defensive pacts against them. Oddly enough I almost never see pacts against even successful pagans. Like I've seen games where Germanic or even Suomenusko is doing really drat well but somehow they don't get pacts. Iunno, maybe vassals get their own threat level or something so all those tribes doing their thing never really build up enough threat for their liege? Vassals expanding do contribute to their liege's threat level. But it's based on their own threat. A one duchy vassal who conquers a county or even another duchy won't generate too much threat, since they are still relatively small. While an emperor who holy wars a duchy will generate a lot of threat. Additionally, only a part of the vassal's threat is transferred to his liege. So if there's a big viking empire where the vassals use county conquests, holy wars and prepared invasions, that emperor will have a much lower threat than the usual suspects like Byzantines and Abbasids, where most of the conquering is done by the top liege.
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Feb 2, 2019 08:53
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Ah yeah that makes sense.
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Feb 2, 2019 10:45
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About to start a 3 man game and I own all expansions played a lot of games already...My question is, have they fixed Pagan raiders constantly popping up after about 100 years in shattered realms? Also what is the option to fix the weird AI choices that make for example Denmark/Saxony show up ALL over the world but not centralized, for example, Denmark owns a piece of it's de jure land and random counties in Spain, Africa, Britain, and Russia but they aren't even powerful. This occurred in my co-op game when we played a Hellenic play through. We had to cut raiding off, which felt like cheating and I want to know if the 'blob' options can help with what I just described. Haven't used CK2+ since Old Gods, recommended for MP still? Thanks
Deception fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Feb 2, 2019 |
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Feb 2, 2019 22:01
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So played ck 2 a bit thinking of multiplayer... for those that multiplayer what’s great about it? What’s annoying about it?
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Feb 2, 2019 22:09
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Deception posted:About to start a 3 man game and I own all expansions played a lot of games already...My question is, have they fixed Pagan raiders constantly popping up after about 100 years in shattered realms? Also what is the option to fix the weird AI choices that make for example denmark/saxony show up ALL over the world but not centralized, for example, denmark owns a piece of it's de jure land and random counties in spain, africa, britain, and russia but they aren't even powerful. Haven't used CK2+ since Old Gods, recommended for MP still? Thanks For the first one, there are still a lot of raiders. For the second, there is a game rule when you start a new game that fixes this. It's called exclave independence. Depending on the setting, exclaves will get independence on succession unless part of a rule's de jure territory, or being connected via a limited naval path.
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Feb 2, 2019 22:09
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And if you don’t have friends that play can you reasonably join games and have a good time?
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Feb 2, 2019 22:10
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Torrannor posted:For the first one, there are still a lot of raiders. You are a gentleman and scholar, thank you! Sucks they haven't fixed the first part, it seems super broken in shattered.
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Feb 2, 2019 22:11
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Runaktla posted:And if you don’t have friends that play can you reasonably join games and have a good time? I doubt it, I only play MP, it is glorious and fun. Find a friend and convert bud.
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Feb 2, 2019 22:11
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I haven't played this game since The Old Gods, and I want to get back into it again. I have all the DLC. Does anyone have any advice on how I should start learning the game again? For example, I'm the Duke of Swabia in the 1066 start and I'm not sure what I'd like to do. I guess if I had a short term goal, it would be to enact the Form Grand Duchy of Swabia decision, and eventually become the Holy Roman Emperor. What should I be doing to get myself progressed towards those goals? Are there any other goals I should be trying to get, and how would I go about doing those? Man, I feel like I've forgotten basically everything.
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Feb 3, 2019 00:16
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The biggest one is tossing gavelkind if you got it. Ultimogeniture, primogeniture, even feudal elective or seniority will let you keep your conquests united on succession. You can fabricate claims or bring in claimaints to take land, and even marry into claims for titles, but Jade Dragon brought in new casus belis to "unlawfully" conquer. Basically versions of county conquest like vikings or muslims can do, but open to everyone. It carries higher costs than doing things the slow way, but it speeds things up. Get yourself a good bishop for coronations, and when you're getting big enough to be in the running for Emperor, be ready to snuggle up with the pope, or even promoting that bishop to antipope. Working your way to the coast could also be useful. Boats are handy. Have a bunch of kids and send them off to all the important ruling families of Europe and spread your dynasty wide. Regret spawning so many errant claimants and exterminate your errant kin after they start trying to take your titles. Pick a heresy, any heresy, and try to supplant catholicism with it. Forge bloodlines. Destroy France. Conquer Italy. Imprison that one annoying vassal you always hated and confiscate his lands, incurring a tyranny malus, and repeat until you're fighting unwinnable hellwars and busted back down to count. Those are a couple goals you can work towards. Although the most common one is just spreading all over the world like a cancer.
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Feb 3, 2019 03:22
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just lmao if you don't relentlessly persue the title of Cancerlord every single godamned game
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Feb 3, 2019 08:36
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Runaktla posted:So played ck 2 a bit thinking of multiplayer... for those that multiplayer what’s great about it? What’s annoying about it? I'm currently in a large (~8 player) multiplayer game. Good: Having that many people all plotting and fighting makes for some glorious chaos MP is basically ironman in preventing you from cheating You have actually intelligent people behind your enemies and their armies Bad: No, you absolutely need a regular group of friends in a scheduled game It's entirely possible for one person to snowball faster than everyone else and shut down the game Warfare is still basically a numbers game, which can make it feel bad to fight Once someone starts losing, it's really hard to stop losing because players can just push home advantages Overall I enjoy it, but it's not a game that lends itself well to a cut-throat competitive mindset. Players will be horribly imbalanced and you should try not to be a huge dick to each other
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Feb 4, 2019 01:00
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MP works best with 2 or 3 people who go in expecting to cooperate. if you go in expecting to compete, someone is going to become a notch in someone else's belt (likely without any actual fault or merit on either account, just circumstance) and then they're gonna figure out very quickly what happens after you punk and launder someone like all of us do routinely in the normal game. the answer is generally lots and lots of boredom. MP does work great for introducing newer players to the game though, if a senior player basically agrees to look out for/vassalize a junior player, the senior player gets a safe supervassal that they can actually rely on and the junior player gets guaranteed support the first 20 times they get ratfucked by the AI. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Feb 4, 2019 |
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Feb 4, 2019 01:21
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Thanks, was curious what I’d have to do to make it work and what I’d look forward to seeing happen. ^^ and you too.
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Feb 4, 2019 01:22
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It is the 1070s and I'm well on my way in my quest of uniting Africa: I accidentally cropped out the lower part of the map where I control everything up to Nubia. Which used to be Abbasid but has now fractured into a dozen tiny states after a revolt. A fact that I plan to take advantage off. Somehow the Karlings lost control off the HRE but gained control of Norway  also the British Isles are a mess 
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Feb 4, 2019 01:58
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FreudianSlippers posted:It is the 1070s and I'm well on my way in my quest of uniting Africa: Oh that's interesting, I tried the same thing once and had massive problems expanding due to the limited range for interactions, zero interest from NPCs to even talk to me and a massive lack of technology and people to build any army from. Where did you start and how did you manage to expand like that rather quickly?
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Feb 4, 2019 02:03
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Holy Fury (and I think some older patches have) added stuff to Africa.
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Feb 4, 2019 02:18
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Goons Are Great posted:Oh that's interesting, I tried the same thing once and had massive problems expanding due to the limited range for interactions, zero interest from NPCs to even talk to me and a massive lack of technology and people to build any army from. Have you seen the new Africa map since Holy Fury?
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Feb 4, 2019 04:29
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Are there any mods that allow Temporal reformed rulers like the Fylkyr to hold temples? I know Iqta government that Islam has allows it, but that has been one of the biggest itches in the middle of my back about how Temporal Rulers works that I can think of.
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Feb 4, 2019 10:26
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