Battlefleet Gothic: Armada 2

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Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

I will repeat this to my dieing day.

If you do multiplayer, the avenger is a trap ship. Never take it.

For single player it does wonderfully well.

But so many people are taking it into multiplayer instead of the superior choice, the dauntless MK II.

# ? Feb 4, 2019 08:13

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 22:19

Perestroika: Apr 8, 2010

Honestly, at this point I consider the nova cannon on the Mars to be a downside. Torpedoes & ramming spurs or bust :colbert:

# ? Feb 4, 2019 08:19

Raged: Jul 21, 2003; A revolution of beats

Third World Reagan posted:

I will repeat this to my dieing day.

If you do multiplayer, the avenger is a trap ship. Never take it.

For single player it does wonderfully well.

But so many people are taking it into multiplayer instead of the superior choice, the dauntless MK II.

I have had a good run with 3 Avengers in 2 v 2. Let my partner start the fight then just burn in for the triple ram and spam.

Probably doesn't work against good players.

# ? Feb 4, 2019 08:33

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

It doesn't and that is the main problem. Well that and eldar.

The ships of the IN are generally too slow to deal with eldar. You need something that has a lot of torps or goes 200 speed or more. The Dauntless MK II fills that roll pretty well with a dumb amount of torps and 200 speed.

It fires what 4 torps? Has 3 normal and 3 melta. You can create a wall of torps at the start of a fight, cause the enemy to at least move out of the way, and still have more left over at the end. For every avenger you can almost get 2 dauntless MK II which is a lot of torps.

Any light cruiser or cruiser build someone else has that has any speed will kite avengers and just snipe their engines. Any boarding faction can probably just hulk one real fast except for nids. RIP nids, nerfed too hard.

But if you want to brawl and so does the enemy, they work out. The lower tiers are mostly brawling anyways.

# ? Feb 4, 2019 08:39

Nickiepoo: Jun 24, 2013

Yeah, triple Avengers is dumb, though I've got a lot of mileage out of one Avenger doing tanking duty with all my other line ships spitting Torpedoes out.

But yes, this is lower ranks.

# ? Feb 4, 2019 11:46

deathbagel: Jun 10, 2008

Third World Reagan posted:

It doesn't and that is the main problem. Well that and eldar.

The ships of the IN are generally too slow to deal with eldar. You need something that has a lot of torps or goes 200 speed or more. The Dauntless MK II fills that roll pretty well with a dumb amount of torps and 200 speed.

It fires what 4 torps? Has 3 normal and 3 melta. You can create a wall of torps at the start of a fight, cause the enemy to at least move out of the way, and still have more left over at the end. For every avenger you can almost get 2 dauntless MK II which is a lot of torps.

Any light cruiser or cruiser build someone else has that has any speed will kite avengers and just snipe their engines. Any boarding faction can probably just hulk one real fast except for nids. RIP nids, nerfed too hard.

But if you want to brawl and so does the enemy, they work out. The lower tiers are mostly brawling anyways.

I played with a nid player in 2v2 the other day. I ran the 2 Kroot Warsphere build and we ended up fighting against 2 Space Marines. They came in and immediately killed all of my troops in both spheres, but the nid player just re-crewed them as soon as they hulked. The spheres killed all the Space Marines with their (I assume mostly genestealer) bug crews and the nids just ran around in the outskirts in stealth, re-crewing my big balls of death and cleaning up any stragglers. It was hilarious!

But yes, in general, the nids definitely need help.

# ? Feb 4, 2019 19:34

DOCTOR ZIMBARDO: May 8, 2006

Third World Reagan posted:

Some ships just outshine others. The shadow is the best ship that the corsairs have at the moment. Their carrier ships are not that good except for the voidstalker which is kinda a meme.

It depends on what chaos you fight but most of the time chaos is fast, long range, and tends to be heavier on lances than other people.

First, kill their escorts. Then keep your speed up, split your fleet if you have to, and regain your shroud stealth when you can by jumping into a nebula or sitting still in an asteroid field.

Target engines and shields then decks for normal ships and for flag ships make decks and engines the first two things you target.

The fragility trait really hurts you in this match up since chaos tends to have lots of lances. If you drop your shields for a moment, you will feel the pain.

But what hurts you even more is a chaos player that doesn't kite and rushes you down to macro your sides with a slaughter or carnage. Those are the big deadly ships to you at the start of a match.

Once you have crippled their engines and killed their scouts, the game is yours.

Thanks a lot for this advice by the way. Six Shadows and a pair of Aconites is a tanky, high DPS build that I find really enjoyable! It�s sort of like a chainsaw, as long as you keep moving and don�t get stuck you can just keep cutting!

# ? Feb 4, 2019 19:40

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

Third World Reagan posted:

It doesn't and that is the main problem. Well that and eldar.

The ships of the IN are generally too slow to deal with eldar. You need something that has a lot of torps or goes 200 speed or more. The Dauntless MK II fills that roll pretty well with a dumb amount of torps and 200 speed.

It fires what 4 torps? Has 3 normal and 3 melta. You can create a wall of torps at the start of a fight, cause the enemy to at least move out of the way, and still have more left over at the end. For every avenger you can almost get 2 dauntless MK II which is a lot of torps.

Any light cruiser or cruiser build someone else has that has any speed will kite avengers and just snipe their engines. Any boarding faction can probably just hulk one real fast except for nids. RIP nids, nerfed too hard.

But if you want to brawl and so does the enemy, they work out. The lower tiers are mostly brawling anyways.

Avengers are a really good choice in 2v2 MP against any faction other than Eldar. Even with LCs, they can't really kite you to death from out of your range in the way that Eldar can.

Plus, I would say that there is just as much brawling at high tiers as low tiers. In fact, low tier is where you find the people trying to run kitey lance builds and other long range gimmicks, and they stay low tier because those tactics dont work. Close range is where the damage happens.

# ? Feb 4, 2019 19:49

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

OctaMurk posted:

In fact, low tier is where you find the people trying to run kitey lance builds and other long range gimmicks, and they stay low tier because those tactics dont work. Close range is where the damage happens.

True to a point. You can definitely be successful with a long range damage gimmick, but it needs to rely on activated abilities, not guns. I think an important thing for any new player to learn is that, as funny as it sounds, waiting on your guns to kill the enemy is doing it wrong. At pretty much all ranges the heavy damage is done with fighters/boarding/torpedoes/ramming/bombs/whatever. Activated abilities are where it's at, primary weapons are for supplementary damage and cleanup work.

Possible exception for Chaos macro cannon swarm and some Tau firepower builds but that's about it.

Meme Poker Party fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Feb 4, 2019

# ? Feb 4, 2019 20:16

Lord Koth: Jan 8, 2012

Chomp8645 posted:

True to a point. You can definitely be successful with a long range damage gimmick, but it needs to rely on activated abilities, not guns. I think an important thing for any new player to learn is that, as funny as it sounds, waiting on your guns to kill the enemy is doing it wrong. At pretty much all ranges the heavy damage is done with fighters/boarding/torpedoes/ramming/bombs/whatever. Primary weapons are for supplementary damage and cleanup work.

While I entirely agree with this, it's honestly somewhat dumb how incredibly long it takes to kill something with actual mounted weaponry. It's a direct result of the decision to literally double the hp/shield values of all the ships, while keeping weapon damage basically the same.

Also due to making armor a simple damage reduction percentage against normal weapons, while keeping a bunch of high damage armor ignoring special abilities + strike craft & torpedoes.

Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Feb 4, 2019

# ? Feb 4, 2019 20:18

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

OctaMurk posted:

Avengers are a really good choice in 2v2 MP against any faction other than Eldar. Even with LCs, they can't really kite you to death from out of your range in the way that Eldar can.

Plus, I would say that there is just as much brawling at high tiers as low tiers. In fact, low tier is where you find the people trying to run kitey lance builds and other long range gimmicks, and they stay low tier because those tactics dont work. Close range is where the damage happens.

So there is a bad reddit image that helps with the point about high tiers.

Someone manually counted all the top ranked players vs total players, who knows how accurate this is but lets say it is for a second.

There are a lot of eldar kity fucks up high tier for a reason. The main reason is their speed and you need about 200-240 speed to keep up with them as a human or tau fleet and you can't do that as tau very well.

Chaos does well mainly due to the rank 10 skill for slaanesh that screws eldar and that they have slaughters and carnages that can catch eldar.

It does have a 3 minute cool down though.

Also here is there rank 10 upgrade which is also better than it looks.

It is roughly -12 morale per second the slaughter and can be up to -20 on one other ship.

And because I got super bored, here are rough ideas of speeds of the factions.

The ships that are considered good for the human factions are the dauntless MK II, strike cruiser MK II, slaughter, and carnage and all of those fall within 200-240.

Third World Reagan fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Feb 4, 2019

# ? Feb 4, 2019 20:28

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

Lord Koth posted:

While I entirely agree with this, it's honestly somewhat dumb how incredibly long it takes to kill something with actual mounted weaponry. It's a direct result of the decision to literally double the hp/shield values of all the ships, while keeping weapon damage basically the same.

Also due to making armor a simple damage reduction percentage against normal weapons, while keeping a bunch of high damage armor ignoring special abilities + strike craft & torpedoes.

It is dumb how high time to kill us but certain eldar have an insane dps output. There are just a lot of bad ships dps wise for other factions.

That and eldar torps ignore armor unlike other torps. The CWE and DE torp builds are just stupidly good and high alpha.

Realistically I think eldar factions may need to take a small hit while everyone else gets a larger buff.

# ? Feb 4, 2019 20:35

Reiterpallasch: Nov 3, 2010; Fun Shoe

What compositions are effective in the single player campaign? Just unlocked BC hulls in the campaign and choice paralysis is starting to affect me. For IN stuff lots of macro batteries and torpedoes seem to do well for me. The fact that Space Marine escorts have a boarding action feels kind of busted against Eldar, since the AI isn't really capable of using its speed advantage effectively.

# ? Feb 4, 2019 21:28

RFC2324: Jun 7, 2012; http 418

Reiterpallasch posted:

What compositions are effective in the single player campaign? Just unlocked BC hulls in the campaign and choice paralysis is starting to affect me. For IN stuff lots of macro batteries and torpedoes seem to do well for me. The fact that Space Marine escorts have a boarding action feels kind of busted against Eldar, since the AI isn't really capable of using its speed advantage effectively.

I've been enjoying rolling around with 2k pts of strike cruisers for my SM armada

# ? Feb 4, 2019 21:59

Cynic Jester: Apr 11, 2009; Let's put a simile on that face
A dazzling simile
Twinkling like the night sky

Reiterpallasch posted:

What compositions are effective in the single player campaign? Just unlocked BC hulls in the campaign and choice paralysis is starting to affect me. For IN stuff lots of macro batteries and torpedoes seem to do well for me. The fact that Space Marine escorts have a boarding action feels kind of busted against Eldar, since the AI isn't really capable of using its speed advantage effectively.

Ram ram ram ram ram ram board. Ram ram ram ram ram ram board.

Or nova cannons as far as the Omnissiah can see.

# ? Feb 4, 2019 22:02

Angry Lobster: May 16, 2011; Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

Today my usually weak Mechanichus almirant destroyed a chaos cruiser in single player with a single nova cannon shot without it even being in detection range (it turned out to be a carnage class cruiser). Omnissiah bless him with many toasters.

# ? Feb 4, 2019 22:17

Magni: Apr 29, 2009

So, campaign experience report... Macragge's Honor is every bit as stupendously ridiculous as I imagined her. Though the fight to get her is pretty drat spectacular, too. :stare:

She did allow me to poo poo all over the 'Nid Ancient One, though.

Edit: Spoiler me on Osmadiel vs Korahael. What do I get for either choice?

Magni fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Feb 5, 2019

# ? Feb 5, 2019 02:44

Flipswitch: Mar 30, 2010

I want to play this more but it consistently seems to crash for me, blah.

# ? Feb 5, 2019 13:41

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

I play this game 2v2 with buddy and whenever I'm ready to ram an opponent I like to yell "prepare for RAMMING SPEED" in the exact manner of Worf from the opening of First Contact.

Well that's my Battlefleet Gothic story I hope you liked it.

# ? Feb 5, 2019 18:03

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

Patch is out.

quote:

Greetings Admirals!

We're happy to announce that our first patch is now live! A huge thanks to everyone who provided us with invaluable feedback on both the public and beta branch! Without all of you, many of these fixes wouldn't be here.

The beta branch has now been closed, but expect to see it back for our next update. Read all about the thoughts behind this patch's changes and what we have in store for the future in our original announcement.

For the full patch notes, see below. We've just discovered an issue with naming saves using special characters (for example : ; ! ? . , > < etc.), so please stick to letters and numbers for now. Please be aware that co-op is still in an early access state, so if you run into any issues, or just want to give us your thoughts on the game, don't hesitate to let us know on our Steam community hub and official forum[forums.focus-home.com]. You can also join our Discord to meet fellow players and get the latest news from the devs: https://discord.gg/fqpAG2D

Now, go blow up some ships!
Tindalos Interactive & Focus Home Interactive

Patch 1 Change log Battlefleet Gothic Armada II

New feature:

Battlegroup: 2v2 A new mode (currently in beta) that increases max fleet points from 600 to 1000 per player in 2v2 mode.

Balancing:
(Campaign) Increased maximum requisition points from 1350 to 1650 for the highest admiral levels
(Campaign) Autobattle results are now more predictable, removing random positive/negative percentages
Lowered fleet power of enemy Space Marines in the Necron mission The Prize
Lowered fleet points of the enemy in the Imperium mission Silver Dawn
Impaler skill damage increased from 2 to 6
Critical chance of Lances/Zap/Pulsar/Shadowlance/Bio plasma/Gauss has been doubled
Ramming damage has been increased by 50%

Ships are now less likely to suffer system critical hit depending on their tonnage.

LC: remain unchanged (no critical reduction)
CR: critical reduction chance modifier reduced from 0.9 to 0.8
BC: critical reduction chance modifier reduced from 0.8 to 0.6
GC: critical reduction chance modifier reduced from 0.7 to 0.4
BS: critical reduction chance modifier reduced from 0.6 to 0.2

Spirit stone targeting node upgrade now applies only to the admiral ship
Drukhari ships' lock-on stance replaced by tracking sense stance
Inertialess drive cooldown reduced from 90 to 75
Tyranids ships� cost slightly reduced
Tracking sense critical hit chance modifier now properly applies a 100% modifier to critical chance instead of 20%
Disruption bomb channel time increased from 10 to 15 seconds
Disruption bomb cooldown increased from 60 to 90 seconds
Improved augur array/Many-Eyed Prophet/Nicassar Prescient/Multi-Spectrum Sensor upgrades detection range increased from 4500 to 9000
Mechadominator effect duration increased from 10 to 30 seconds
Daemonic infestation now applies to all line ships
Slaanesh promise duration reduced from 10 to 5 seconds
Dark matter cannon speed reduction reduced from 50% to 25%
Lictor brood upgrade now applies to line ships instead of light cruiser only
Resurrection orb now gives back 3 troops instead of 1

Co-op mode:
Stabilized flow system when going in/out of battle
Fixed game loading that didn�t automatically load the auto-save
Fixed end of battle screen
Fixed the result screen that was displaying a defeat on the guest-side and a victory on the host-side

Added:
Beta experience rating added in multiplayer score screen for sharing the player�s feedback with the dev team about the beta mode
Scrollbar on the saves list screen
Confirmation pop-up in the shipyard when revoking a ship
Space Medusae now have a feedback range when exploding

Bug Fixes:
1. Campaign:
Imperium Campaign & Prologue fixes:
Fixed validation of the mission Preparation for the End of Time
Fixed crash at the end of the mission The Chosen of Abaddon
Fixed a Chaos ship that has to be boarded in the prologue. It now has defence turrets to match the dialogue/narration
Fixed feedback of the player�s narrative choice in the mission Repentance
Fixed the Nurgle�s FX that links monuments in the mission The Chosen of Abaddon
Fixed inverted admiral icons on the pre-match screen in Stopping the Harvest
Fixed dialogue that wasn�t triggering at the arrival of the Phalanx
Fixed localisation text on the Aurent Pattern Munitions upgrade
Fixed reinforcement fleets as reward of the mission The Invasion (Tyranid Annihilation)
Fixed achievement �Stick with your Own Kind� (granted after the first Eldar Annihilation Ark mission).

Tyranid campaign fixes:
Fixed deployment areas in the mission Slip Through The Net
Fixed failed secondary objective display in the mission Slip Through The Net
Fixed secondary objective not giving the proper rewards in the mission Slip Through The Net
Fixed secondary objective not giving the proper rewards in the mission Surprise Appetisers
Updated reinforcement system in the mission Gourmet Meal
Updated dialogues in the mission Indigestible
Updated fleet points in the mission Flesh Is Weak
Fixed Infiltration skill so that it can�t be launched on a blocked system
Fixed the reward in the mission Buffet
Fixed a dialogue trigger that was activated in the end of the mission Buffet
Fixed the achievement trigger when destroying the Dark Throne
Fixed objective completion when boarding the Space Station in the mission Wounded Prey
Fixed the possibility to replace the Ancient One in the mission The Devourer Wakes
Fixed Death World POI attribute tooltip
Fixed Spore mine system defence item

Necron campaign fixes:
Fixed a crash in the Necron Campaign if you would capture Agripinaa from a save starting during PreOrderBeta 2 (if your save is from PreOrderBeta 2 and you have already captured Agripinaa you need to reload before that point)
Fixed validation of the mission The Prize
Fixed issue in the mission Star Makers where the player could be blocked after having destroyed the Blackstone
Fixed infinite life for escort ships from a Necron upgrade
Fixed the outro of the mission End of a Billion Souls (the Craftworld now disappears)
Fixed the Shards of Yggra'Nya upgrade effect in the mission Veil of Shadows
Fixed camera that was going through Space Hulks 3D meshes in the mission The Beast�s Last Stand

User Interface fixes:
Fixed Plasma Storm tooltip in Necron and Tyranid missions
Fixed a stuck weapon highlight when mousing over it
Fixed hidden sectors� names in which the player had no fleet
Corrected text on the fleet details title of the score screen
Updated a currency icon for tyranids (shipyard upkeep)
Updated the visibility of the laurel in the stats screen
Fixed the text display on fleet names that exceeded the pop-up size
Updated urgency gauge display when in disabled mode
Fixed game over sound FX
Fixed Roboute Guilliman�s name in dialogue
Fixed the boarding torpedoes� keybind in the prologue
Fixed empty tooltips on enemy turrets/space stations� experience level display
Fixed empty tooltips on the Space Hulk experience level display

General fixes:
Fixed crash linked to engaging fleets with 0 fleet power
Fixed an issue where a cinematic would not display properly in specific cases
Protection added against crashes that may occur when macro projectiles target Interfering Signals
Fixed admiral level-up sound that wasn�t impacted by the audio option settings
Fixed annihilation rewards display
Fixed bonus which added Battle Plan after X turns (Listening Post POI)
Removed the Macragge�s Honour from the Sons of Malice Chaos sub-faction
Fixed a problem where Space Titan kills weren't taken into account
Fixed Annihilation achievement trigger in the Necron and Tyranid campaigns
Fixed Nurgle worshipper POI effect (lowers troops regeneration)
Fixed hidden �buy a fleet� button on a selected system after having bought a new fleet
Fixed End Turn shortcut from not working.
Fixed wrong Chaos Battleship Despoiler�s wreckage
Improved Wind of Change skill FX
Fixed Interfering Signal warning event
Fixed wrong critical chance on the Tracking Sense skill

2. Battle Fixes
General:
Improved AutoLaunch Scuttle AI (AI will avoid triggering scuttle with allies around and will wait a bit less before using it, anyway it will be use at some point to allow AI reinforcement to be deployed on the the battlefield)
Improved Auto Launch skill disengage AI (AI will now try to disengage his ships)
Updated custom fleets� security check
Fixed localisation error panel in the main menu
Fixed launch bay number on the Despoiler�s prow
Fixed Armour Piercing Ammunition/Blessing of Vaul upgrades when target is close
Fixed Slavetaker attribute
Fixed AI that was firing Nova Cannon on hidden ships
Fixed Gravity Hook number on T�au ships
Fixed Scanner skill (now available on Platform Defences)
Fixed Cruiser Gothic�s torpedoes that had parallel trajectories
Fixed AI that was not following flagship vessels� rules
Fixed 1vsAI loading screen that was displaying �Waiting player� with a timer
Fixed Defeat text that wasn�t displayed when capitulating at the start of a game

User Interface:
Fixed a tooltip on the Burn Retro skill of the Orks Roks ship
Fixed the Massive Claws skill�s damage text display
New weapon icons for Tyranid Claws + common, light, and heavy launch bay
Updated ship overlay: The Action button now has more space at the bottom
Updated graphic code on ordnance icons
Fixed some manoeuvers that had no tooltip when under cooldown
Updated Ancient Psychic Scream feedback position
Fixed the disengage gauge fulfilment that wasn�t displayed guest side
VFX/SFX:
Updated FX collision between ships for optimisation
Fixed victory/defeat text
Fixed defence turrets� sound FX

3. Structure Fixes:
Optimization: Dark Eldar, Necrons, Tyranids FXs
Updated localisation for several languages
Updated loading ship screen when going to the ship viewer
Updated ship viewer feature: can now show/hide User Interface
Fixed the space bar that allows you to skip game turn
Increased visibility on checkboxes and sound option settings
Updated credit screen opacity background

https://steamcommunity.com/games/573100/announcements/detail/1743359227818862696

# ? Feb 5, 2019 18:11

Perestroika: Apr 8, 2010

Weirdly enough ramming actually feels a little weak in terms of damage. Even using an Imp cruiser with the ramming spur and the upgrade to ramming damage, and afterburning it into an enemy cruiser's flank only yielded like 1 to 1.5 healthbar segments of damage. Which was about one or two torpedoes' worth of damage. Which frankly seems a little on the low end considering how much you have to set things up to make it happen and how exposed it leaves you.

# ? Feb 5, 2019 18:13

Meme Poker Party: Sep 1, 2006; by Azathoth

Perestroika posted:

Weirdly enough ramming actually feels a little weak in terms of damage. Even using an Imp cruiser with the ramming spur and the upgrade to ramming damage, and afterburning it into an enemy cruiser's flank only yielded like 1 to 1.5 healthbar segments of damage. Which was about one or two torpedoes' worth of damage. Which frankly seems a little on the low end considering how much you have to set things up to make it happen and how exposed it leaves you.

It is a little on the light side. However, if you've been playing the regular version, the beta patch that just went live today carries with it a global 50% ramming damage increase.

Brace for impact fellas.

# ? Feb 5, 2019 18:16

hemale in pain: Jun 5, 2010

I'm crap with imperials in mutliplayer! All their ships seem so medicore. Am I missing something? I don't do much damage with macro batteries

# ? Feb 5, 2019 18:49

Nickiepoo: Jun 24, 2013

hemale in pain posted:

I'm crap with imperials in mutliplayer! All their ships seem so medicore. Am I missing something? I don't do much damage with macro batteries

As noted above, Imperial damage (and damage in general) is really about it's ramming and Torps (and bombers but Imps aren't great at those).

The advantages of their ships is that they're pretty tough, can go decently fast when boosting and can spit out decent DPS at good ranges with decent troop strength. They're mediocore in that they're very generalist ships but that means that you've always got a potential strength to leverage against whatever your opponent is bad at.

What fleet build are you using?

# ? Feb 5, 2019 18:57

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

Also are you doing 1200, 1000, or 600 pt battles.

# ? Feb 5, 2019 19:18

hemale in pain: Jun 5, 2010

I'm not really 100% sure as I've been changing it around trying to find a combo of something I like. I might just go back to orks.

Third World Reagan posted:

Also are you doing 1200, 1000, or 600 pt battles.

1v1s

# ? Feb 5, 2019 19:24

Panfilo: Aug 27, 2011; Can't post for 14 hours!

1000 pt 2v2 is pretty wild. If everyone stays close the center of the map becomes a massive clusterfuck. I'm still getting used to managing so many ships at once.

Ramming definitely got better, which is hilarious when you have a goddamn conga line of Ork light cruisers smacking into a battleship one after another.

# ? Feb 5, 2019 20:29

Nitrousoxide: May 30, 2011; do not buy a oneplus phone

I feel like the railgun based Tau ships are not so great. You have to stay pointed at the enemy rather than strafing them, meaning you're vulnerable to rams and torpedoes and can't avoid AOE abilities without boosting right into the middle of the enemy.

# ? Feb 5, 2019 22:25

Nickiepoo: Jun 24, 2013

1000pt 2v2 is amazing and 100% my jam.

# ? Feb 6, 2019 11:07

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

hemale in pain posted:

I'm not really 100% sure as I've been changing it around trying to find a combo of something I like. I might just go back to orks.

1v1s

Talked to someone and they said mass daunts or mass domis. Either daunt I assume.

Having a large flagship doesn't seem bad right now either.

# ? Feb 6, 2019 11:20

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Is there a decent guide/breakdown somewhere of the various ships and basic fleet compositions? Specifically for navy/marines/chaos?

# ? Feb 6, 2019 11:53

Angry Lobster: May 16, 2011; Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

I'm still playing the campaign and having a blast. When I'm finished with it I'll like to do some multiplayer, but I hate micromanaging large fleets, how viable are the less numerous factions like necrons or space marines?

# ? Feb 6, 2019 11:53

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

Space marines are super strong right now since they are a burn down and board faction. It is a one trick pony but it does it really well.

As for a guide on ships, do you want a guide on what ships are good or something that tries to explain all ships? There are a few spread sheets out there to help you get a feel for what is good for each fleet.

# ? Feb 6, 2019 12:07

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Just a sort of general thing pointing out which ships/loadouts are okay vs slightly useless.

# ? Feb 6, 2019 13:34

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

For the imperial navy here are my "good" ships.

Dauntless, Dauntless MK II, Endeavour, Dominator, Tyrant, Overlord, Vengeance, and Emperor. Comedy option is Avengers.

The entire imperial navy line has 2 main problems. Lack of frontal dps and lack of speed. They excel at broadsides, being cheap, having excessive torps, and gimmick spurs for ramming.

As for light cruisers, your Dauntless has a high value for frontal dps compared to most ships until battleships. It is a good ship to chase things down with.

The Dauntless MK II is a bit better with broadsides, loses none of the speed, and has a good number of torps. The Endeavour also kinda falls here but only if you want to trade some Dauntless in for something cheaper to get a bigger ship somewhere.

Once you cross over into cruisers, speed for the entire faction tanks so it is more about how much dps you can get for your value and then what kind of range you want to have.

The Avenger has probably the best damage but it is macro and close so fits as a brawler. Just don't plan to shoot anything beyond 4.5K with it. The Tyrant, Overlord, and Vengeance do the same thing as the Avenger but at a farther range which might be beneficial based on who you fight and how you fight. You are basically trading a few lances around as well as the range of your macros for most of these ships.

I like the Emperor battleship just because it has a few hangar bays which is never not bad on a flagship but it probably isn't the best choice. I have no real strong opinions on any of the battleships.

For marines, we have a nick name for their battleships. Brainlet barges. They just don't do what they need to for the cost compared to other space marine ships but may be a bit better now that you have some defense on them.

Some of the space marines have hangar bays but honestly you won't be using bombers or fighters too much from them, just the assault craft. Or you could pick up cheaper ships with boarding torpedos that are just more cost effective.

The Strike Cruiser MK II is the best ship you have for boarding actions cost wise. I know I have seen some light cruiser stealth boarding action from the space marines but I have never really feared that. Stopping strike cruier MK IIs from even getting to you is hard for most factions.

Chaos is a bit weird since they tend to be higher speed and longer range. Their torp ships tend to be pretty bad and their carriers tend to be a bit over priced until you get to their battleship.

Slaughters are your speedy ships to catch eldar with while Carnages are your brawlers. The Slaughters are also ok at brawling and I think have 2 dps less than a Carnage.

You also have a Avenger like grand cruiser called the Retaliator. Stat wise is is almost the same except it has 4 hangar bays and costs 101 more than the Avenger.

You also have 5 different types of chaos fleets. 1 for each of the gods and then one without any god skills. Slaanesh has a stun and morale debuffs, Tzeench has a stealth cloud it brings as well as a bad boarding skill, Nurgle has an aoe heal and immunity to destroyed deck skill, while Khorne tries to turn you into a pseudo space marine without any of the good bits of being a space marine.

Khorne can give you an extra boarding attack skill and increase your crit chance when boarding but space marines are at 60% base crit chance while chaos are 10%. The khorne skill may still be bugged as well, who knows. It says "Troop damage: " with no number.

Most of the competitive fleets I've seen just run Carnages or Slaughters and then pick Slaanesh. Even with the crit changes most of the larger chaos vessels are not great for their cost vs dps compared to the Carnage and Slaughter.

The Retaliator or Hades may be more worth it now but I haven't run enough fleets with them yet.

As for flagships, if you don't mind them staying far away from the fight, The Executor, Desolator, and Despoiler are all ok.

Third World Reagan fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Feb 6, 2019

# ? Feb 6, 2019 13:58

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

Turns out the khorn skill "bloodletters parties" does actually show info but since it is based on ship size, you have to see that in a match. Just looking at Khorne just... makes me question so much about them.

The khorne skill gives you +20% chance to crit with boarding actions. Boarding actions is one of the two assault skills. It does more crew damage and less morale damage than lightning strike but requires you to be close while ignoring shields.

The base chaos critical assault chance is 10% so now we are sitting at 30%. If you pick up the carrier skill, it will increase boarding actions another 20% sitting you at 50%. The best ship for that is the retaliator which will do 6-12 crew damage coming out at best around 50 ship cost per crew kill. It also assault boats that may or may not count as a boarding action. No one knows. The tool tip for them shows that they only have a 10% chance.

So what we have is a 300 cost ship that can kill 2-4 troops via assault craft (10% crit), 6-12 troops from a boarding action (50% crit), and 3-6 troops from bloodletters (10% crit) bringing it to 11-22 troops per 300 cost ship.

So lets go look at space marines.

For 178 pts you get a ship that can do 12-18 troops via boarding torpedos (0.6% crit per), 8-12 troop damage from a boarding action (60% crit), and Honour the Chapter for 4-6 (60% crit) bringing it to 24-36 troops per 178 cost ship with a rather high critical.

Space marines also have skill that boost their critical where lightning strike can have a 105% chance with terminators and you get a few other skills as well.

# ? Feb 6, 2019 14:19

Stanley Pain: Jun 16, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Mr Teatime posted:

Is there a decent guide/breakdown somewhere of the various ships and basic fleet compositions? Specifically for navy/marines/chaos?

Not really, just get in the game and play around. That's kinda 1/2 the fun.

Macro guns (dakka) good.

Lance (beamy) bad to meh.

Fleet comps depend on what you're playing.

# ? Feb 6, 2019 15:30

Thirsty Dog: May 31, 2007

Third World Reagan posted:

Turns out the khorn skill "bloodletters parties" does actually show info but since it is based on ship size, you have to see that in a match. Just looking at Khorne just... makes me question so much about them.

The khorne skill gives you +20% chance to crit with boarding actions. Boarding actions is one of the two assault skills. It does more crew damage and less morale damage than lightning strike but requires you to be close while ignoring shields.

The base chaos critical assault chance is 10% so now we are sitting at 30%. If you pick up the carrier skill, it will increase boarding actions another 20% sitting you at 50%. The best ship for that is the retaliator which will do 6-12 crew damage coming out at best around 50 ship cost per crew kill. It also assault boats that may or may not count as a boarding action. No one knows. The tool tip for them shows that they only have a 10% chance.

So what we have is a 300 cost ship that can kill 2-4 troops via assault craft (10% crit), 6-12 troops from a boarding action (50% crit), and 3-6 troops from bloodletters (10% crit) bringing it to 11-22 troops per 300 cost ship.

So lets go look at space marines.

For 178 pts you get a ship that can do 12-18 troops via boarding torpedos (0.6% crit per), 8-12 troop damage from a boarding action (60% crit), and Honour the Chapter for 4-6 (60% crit) bringing it to 24-36 troops per 178 cost ship with a rather high critical.

Space marines also have skill that boost their critical where lightning strike can have a 105% chance with terminators and you get a few other skills as well.

Isn't comparing cross faction a bad idea, though? It's about what the specialisation brings to your faction compared to the other options surely

Edit: surely not surly. I'm not that rude.

Thirsty Dog fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Feb 6, 2019

# ? Feb 6, 2019 16:05

Third World Reagan: May 19, 2008; Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

It is a bad idea but at the same time you can do it for funsies.

Like comparing the god of melee and melee fuckery to space marines.

You have a subfaction of chaos that gets 2 extra skills. In fact you got 4 subfactions that do that. So you would expect something to be useful from those skills.

As of now, nurgle and slaanesh is good while tzeench and khorne are not nearly as good.

# ? Feb 6, 2019 16:15

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 22:19

Thirsty Dog: May 31, 2007

Okay but is "makes them much better but still not as good as space marines who are designed around this mechanic" a huge negative? Like, are there any other areas where the khorne player has superiority over the space marines?

# ? Feb 6, 2019 19:48

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