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Ghost of Starman posted:I'd be interested in selling you mine The esteemed gentlemanne and I seem to be having a disagreement on the values of said amusement softeware programme. The offer to buy the Cult Sim key off someones bundle is still open.
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Feb 4, 2019 05:56
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Tenasscity posted:The esteemed gentlemanne and I seem to be having a disagreement on the values of said amusement softeware programme. The offer to buy the Cult Sim key off someones bundle is still open. I'll take you up on that. PM works fine for me, and I'm not terribly picky about value.
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Feb 4, 2019 11:33
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Kaethela posted:I'll take you up on that.  crimes.
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Feb 4, 2019 12:12
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Think I'll stop at three Ever After achievements. Grabbed the rarest ones on the Steam list because it takes so long to get one. I'll probably come back for more if the game ever gets some much needed quality of life streamlining.
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Feb 4, 2019 12:53
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super sweet best pal posted:I'll probably come back for more if the game ever gets some much needed quality of life streamlining bahahahhahahahhahahahhahhahahaha, don't expect that too easily BTW, what are those Ever After achievements? From the achievement titles I gathered that you both can't go on together, so both characters get some elder god punishments for bending the rules
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Feb 4, 2019 13:19
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Sunless skies has this thing where you can travel significantly faster by spamming the strafe move.
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Feb 4, 2019 13:28
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dead comedy forums posted:bahahahhahahahhahahahhahhahahaha, don't expect that too easily Yeah, we're talking about the dev responsible for Seeking Mr Eaten's Name so I'm not holding out too much hope. Ever Afters are the mortal romance victories. If you're about to ascend and win but are romantically involved with a cultist you'll get an option to give up your quest and settle down
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Feb 4, 2019 13:34
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Here's a question that's been bothering me, as the ending of my first playthrough continues to rattle around in my skull... Is it clear to anyone - and it might very well be unelucidated in the available textual sources, it seems like the sort of thing that could very well just be left ambiguous, but... - is it ever made clear whether (lore wankery follows) the various Aspects are derived from the nature of the Hours, or if the Hours are themselves shaped by previously-existing arcane principles? E.g., did Moth-the-mystical-resonances exist prior to Moth the Hour, and Moth looks like it does because it is so closely aligned with the principle? Or is the principle really just a reflection of being in closer alignment with / having the attention of the Hour, and (presumably) in times before there were other principles in place of Forge and Moth and Lantern et al? My default assumption based on what I managed to take in would probably be 'Aspects derive from Hours' (I think the highest Influences explicitly say they represent the attention of an Hour, or at least could), except for two things: 1.) the existence of Aspects like Edge and Knock, which have Hours that are closely aligned with, but not explicitly the same as, those Aspects - and so would seem to exist independent of any singular Hour or entity; and, 2.) many Hours that are associated with multiple Aspects (i.e., the Forge of Days is not just Forge but Forge+Lantern; Sun-in-Rags is Lantern+Winter), implying that the Hours resonate with existing principles rather than the other way around.
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Feb 4, 2019 23:36
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Ghost of Starman posted:Is it clear to anyone - and it might very well be unelucidated in the available textual sources, it seems like the sort of thing that could very well just be left ambiguous, but... - is it ever made clear whether (lore wankery follows) the various Aspects are derived from the nature of the Hours, or if the Hours are themselves shaped by previously-existing arcane principles? E.g., did Moth-the-mystical-resonances exist prior to Moth the Hour, and Moth looks like it does because it is so closely aligned with the principle? Or is the principle really just a reflection of being in closer alignment with / having the attention of the Hour, and (presumably) in times before there were other principles in place of Forge and Moth and Lantern et al? "Both", I think, but that's purely speculative. Kennedy seems to suggest that the principles are not uncreated. See also the comment on the Crime of the Sky, re: whether the Hours define or are subject to universal laws.
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Feb 5, 2019 01:19
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So like what an I supposed to do? My cult has a big following. I am geinding expeditions. I got the stag door, woods, and white door. No other way has opened, I'm really just reading a bunch of books
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Feb 5, 2019 01:24
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Phi230 posted:So like what an I supposed to do? You can find the next way after the stag door by the same means you found the others. Having answered the stag door's riddle will also allow you to advance your temptation.
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Feb 5, 2019 01:30
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Ayn Randi posted:You can find the next way after the stag door by the same means you found the others. Having answered the stag door's riddle will also allow you to advance your temptation. How do you advance your temptation and why would you do that?
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Feb 5, 2019 01:48
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Phi230 posted:How do you advance your temptation and why would you do that? Advancing your temptation is the only way to get a standard or better victory.
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Feb 5, 2019 01:50
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more specifically, your temptation is that thing you want that's why you advance it. because you want it
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Feb 5, 2019 01:52
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Any big gotchas in the new shiny/scary legacies/victories? I'm not super into spoilers but the game is slow enough that I'm cautious.
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Feb 5, 2019 02:20
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Ghost of Starman posted:Here's a question that's been bothering me, as the ending of my first playthrough continues to rattle around in my skull... Beaten to it, but my take from the Hours' bios (https://cultistsimulator.gamepedia.com/Hours) is also "both", and the distinction is probably immaterial: If you read through the bios, you can outline a rough and only slightly paradoxical history in which it's clear that there are: 1. Hours that predate humanity (5 of the 6 of these are dead/banished) 2. Hours that were created by The Glory (2, one of which was split into 5) 3. Hours derived from humans (the youngest, and what the player is trying to be) 1 and 2 exclusively have the 4 more 'primordial' Principles: Lantern, Forge, Knock, and Winter, while 3 mostly (but not exclusively) have the 'human' principles: Moth, Grail, Heart, and Edge. This implies that the human Principles didn't exist in the Mansus prior to the human-derived Hours, and therefore the Principles in general are not set-in-stone: either new ones can be created or existing ones can be redefined.
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Feb 5, 2019 02:25
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Nope! I feel like I don't agree about that last part. I guess it's intentional that space is big and it takes a long time to get places, but I find myself going "uuuugh" if I happen to need to go to Lustrum or Hybras or someplace in an rear end in a top hat long way off because god I just need to do one thing there and it's so drat far off
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Feb 5, 2019 11:01
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Hybras sucks because the paths that lead to it are always winding
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Feb 5, 2019 12:15
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BBJoey posted:Hybras sucks because the paths that lead to it are always winding But are the lights blinding?
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Feb 5, 2019 13:02
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Wow, I am so liking Sunless Skies more than Sunless Sea. I discovered a crazy windy spot in the fungal biome that makes plants grow spontaneously. Which means my supplies regenerate while in there. It's scary though, so not so good for my Terror.
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Feb 5, 2019 17:27
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Avasculous posted:Beaten to it, but my take from the Hours' bios (https://cultistsimulator.gamepedia.com/Hours) is also "both", and the distinction is probably immaterial: An interesting case is the creation of the Thunderskin. One of the books specifically notes that the Thunderskin was created by The Grail (Grail aspect) to act as a check on the power of the Witch-and-Sister (Grail/Heart). So it would seem that aspects are a sort of font of power that can be drawn from, and that multiple Hours drawing from the same aspect are in competition for that power. I would also agree that some aspects, like Edge are newer than others. Edge is sort of based around conquest, which seems to be a more recent phenomenon with the advent and evolution of human war, as the first Edge Hour we know to exist is The Colonel, who gained that aspect in part by defeating The Seven Coiled. It's possible that the Seven Coiled was the original Edge aspect though, as one of the books points to it being killed because of it's danger to humans, though that could easily be a revisionist history by the humans who chose to kill it. Moth also seems to be a human-based aspect, as we don't know what aspects The Wheel had, but since Moth is Moth-Aspect only, and also that The Moth "stole the Wheel's skin from the inside", it seems like it was created at that moment. Since Moth is defined a a "perilous, chaotic, yearning" aspect, my theory is that Moth aspect in general represents the propensity of mortals to ascend to Hour-dom, though at great personal risk..
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Feb 5, 2019 17:47
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:An interesting case is the creation of the Thunderskin. One of the books specifically notes that the Thunderskin was created by The Grail (Grail aspect) to act as a check on the power of the Witch-and-Sister (Grail/Heart). So it would seem that aspects are a sort of font of power that can be drawn from, and that multiple Hours drawing from the same aspect are in competition for that power. My take is that the aspects attributed can change as the world does and that the moth taking over the wheels skin is akin to the aspect of travel/migration/exploration giving way to a more modern yearning/peril. Similar to how the seven coiled represented predation/hunting and gave way to a more modern edge with war/conquest/murder. Trying to explain this games lore really feels like madness.
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Feb 5, 2019 18:22
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CrowdControl posted:Trying to explain this games lore really feels like madness. I know; isn't it great?  While we're on the subject - what the heck is up with the connection between Moth and barbers, of all things? Like, Knock and locksmiths seems pretty straightforward; but what's the symbolic link between "perilous yearning" and cutting hair?
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Feb 5, 2019 19:08
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Ghost of Starman posted:I know; isn't it great? Have you ever really wanted a cool haircut but couldn't quite bring yourself to explain to the barber what anime boy you wanted to look like?
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Feb 5, 2019 19:55
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CrowdControl posted:My take is that the aspects attributed can change as the world does and that the moth taking over the wheels skin is akin to the aspect of travel/migration/exploration giving way to a more modern yearning/peril. Similar to how the seven coiled represented predation/hunting and gave way to a more modern edge with war/conquest/murder. This has been my thoughts too. I believe that the Gods from Stone are basically a pre/early humanity sort of consciousness. The Tide represented the basic animal needs and desires (food, water, sex as a biological drive), but as human consciousness advanced and their desires became more advanced and complex (and inherently limitless) like good food, drink, drugs, sex for please ect. the Grail "drank the tide". The Flint, which probably acted as humanity's drive/ability to use very simple tools, was destroyed by The Forge as humanity became able to construct and destroy more tools. The Seven Coiled was animal-like predations, and as humans developed war and combat the Colonel and the Mother of Ants defeated it, giving rise to modern war and perhaps the general idea of religion. The Wheel is still kind of a mystery. My assumption is that The Wheel represented travel and exploration in a physical and geographic sense, but as the ability or capacity of humans to enter the Mansus (despite it's extreme danger), the Moth rose to usurp The Wheel. This could all be inversed too, as perhaps the rise of these new Hours are what gave humanity the ability to forge tools and the drive to eat/drink/gently caress endlessly. One thing I haven't sussed out is the exact nature of rise of the Thunderskin. Lore and books explicitly state that the Thunderskin was originally a Name of the Grail, who she "promoted" with the explicit purpose of making him into a Heart Hour to combat the growing strength of the Witch-and-Sister. One book mentions that the Thunderskin "ascended through the Peacock Door, which is an abomination of abominations. Yet there was no other way". That implies he initially rose as a human to become a Long/Name of the Grail. However, another book talks about a "pact between the Hours of the House and the Hours of the Wood". This pact was made to stifle the internecine war of the Hours of the Wood and the Hours of the House. The final condition of this peace treaty was the Horned Axe (the last of the Gods-from-Stone) demanding that the Thunderskin be destroyed as reparations for the previous destruction of the Gods-of-Stone by the current Hours. So does this mean that the Thunderskin, before he was an Hour, was destroyed by The Grail? Or was that "destruction" the moment the Grail flayed the human who became the Thunderskin? The first one seems implausible both because we haven't really seen full-fledged Hours be able to kill each other, and the fact that the Thunderskin obviously is still around. The second also seems strange, because if the Horned Axe demanded that he be destroyed, the Grail turning him into an Hour doesn't exactly seem like it would fulfill the Horned Axe's demands.
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Feb 5, 2019 20:23
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Ghost of Starman posted:While we're on the subject - what the heck is up with the connection between Moth and barbers, of all things? Like, Knock and locksmiths seems pretty straightforward; but what's the symbolic link between "perilous yearning" and cutting hair? The barber is the bringer of change, shedding unnecessary hair much like the moth sheds its cocoon.
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Feb 5, 2019 20:35
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Jan posted:The barber is the bringer of change, shedding unnecessary hair much like the moth sheds its cocoon. And more specifically, some folklore states that "secrets are held in the hair". There's Moth lore that basically says cutting your hair is one of the only ways to get rid of secrets, in addition to being a sort of "shedding of the skin". In pretty much every culture hair is very deeply tied to our perceptions of "self", and so cutting hair has always been a way to discard an old self.
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Feb 5, 2019 21:01
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:One thing I haven't sussed out is the exact nature of rise of the Thunderskin. Based on the Thunderskin's bio, this is intentionally ambiguous: "The Thunderskin was created by The Red Grail, who had grown jealous of the power of The Witch and Sister and sought to strengthen her dominion. She enticed a great musician to become one of her Names before flaying him." "The Thunderskin loved the Ring-Yew, and as a consequence of this was destroyed by the Grail in recompense for the killing of the Gods-from-Stone. However, he re-entered the House through the Peacock Door, which was considered rather scandalous. It is unclear whether he loved the Yew prior to his ascension and the destruction was the ascension, or if all of this took place after his ascension." Several of the Hours's bios have built-in ambiguity or outright paradoxes. Besides just adding hand-wavey mystery/spookiness, part of what I think he's going for is that the Secret Histories are accounts of the past in many different timelines, which become interwoven in the Mansus. Yorkshire Pudding posted:
Given the Moth's connection to creativity/passion, I think it's more likely that the Wheel is meant to represent the most primitive human invention. Maybe the Moth stealing his skin is meant to be higher/madder forms of creativity (painting, poetry, dancing) usurping purely need-based invention. Avasculous fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Feb 5, 2019 |
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Feb 5, 2019 21:14
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This makes me wonder if part of the wheels aspect was actually just the continuous natural cycles as well until moth usurped it with change.
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Feb 5, 2019 21:22
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Avasculous posted:Based on the Thunderskin's bio, this is intentionally ambiguous: "The Thunderskin was created by The Red Grail, who had grown jealous of the power of The Witch and Sister and sought to strengthen her dominion. She enticed a great musician to become one of her Names before flaying him." I assumed that Hours basically existed in all histories simultaneously, our outside of histories or something. I don't think I've seen another example of an Hour existing in one history but not another
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Feb 5, 2019 21:34
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I'm finally getting a hang of the mechanics, managed to get through the Stag Door on my last run and things were running smoothly until I decided to check out what the Glover & Glover ending held. Disappointment! Not even a mention of the fact that their new senior worker was a vampire man with fingers in odd places, or a hint that my character missed his fun cannibal parties. I'm probably going to pursue Grail again on my next run. Is there any reason to base my cult on any of the other lores, or is it optimal to match your cult and desire?
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Feb 5, 2019 21:50
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Big Mad Drongo posted:I'm finally getting a hang of the mechanics, managed to get through the Stag Door on my last run and things were running smoothly until I decided to check out what the Glover & Glover ending held. Disappointment! Not even a mention of the fact that their new senior worker was a vampire man with fingers in odd places, or a hint that my character missed his fun cannibal parties. Matching your cult to the specific desire you're going for makes it just a little bit easier, but not a huge amount. Besides the fact that some of the cultist abilities (looking at you, Heart) are just way better than others.
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Feb 5, 2019 22:03
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:And more specifically, some folklore states that "secrets are held in the hair". There's Moth lore that basically says cutting your hair is one of the only ways to get rid of secrets, in addition to being a sort of "shedding of the skin". In pretty much every culture hair is very deeply tied to our perceptions of "self", and so cutting hair has always been a way to discard an old self.  Seems legit to me!
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Feb 5, 2019 22:20
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:I assumed that Hours basically existed in all histories simultaneously, our outside of histories or something. I don't think I've seen another example of an Hour existing in one history but not another Unresolved Ambiguity [Secret Histories 10]: "In the Mansus, the Hours strive one against another. As the struggles are resolved, they iron out the impossible, exalt the possible, tie the fraying braids of what has been into one golden ribbon of future. Everything is resolved. history becomes the past. There are, however, exceptions. [Exploring with this scrap of knowledge may uncover secret locations in the Rending Mountains, three thousand miles away among the wreck of the oldest empires.]" The Forge of Days's bio also has a line that reads: "Later, in at least one history, The Forge of Days agreed to a peace with the Long of England..."
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Feb 5, 2019 23:01
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:The Wheel is still kind of a mystery. My assumption is that The Wheel represented travel and exploration in a physical and geographic sense, but as the ability or capacity of humans to enter the Mansus (despite it's extreme danger), the Moth rose to usurp The Wheel. Avasculous posted:
CrowdControl posted:This makes me wonder if part of the wheels aspect was actually just the continuous natural cycles as well until moth usurped it with change. I'm still inclined to read the Wheel -> Moth usurpation as representing a transformation in humanity's relationship to the wild and their conception of the unknown and unknown spaces more generally. Specifically, I think it's about the (first) agricultural revolution and the beginnings of cultivation. In the beginning, all the world is wild. Human spaces are confined to the immediate vicinity of the hearth; hence any travel (the Wheel, in my interpretation) is travel into the unknown and untamed land. Once cultivation begins, humanity takes the cultivated landscape into their control: there is now a distinction between cultivated land and wilderness. Wildness ceases to be an omnipresent aspect of space, and becomes a property of specific spaces- the Wood, where the Moth lives. And even those spaces that remain wild are subordinated by this act of division- they may still be chaotic and dangerous, but that chaos now has limits placed upon it. It has a boundary. I think this because, like Yorkshire Pudding, I'm inclined to read all of the usurpations anthropologically- Flint/Forge is the transition to metalworking, Coils/Colonel is the threat of human violence overtaking the dangers of the natural world, Tide/Grail is need giving way to desire. All of these you could reasonably locate in a similar period of time- the Chalcolithic, more or less- and they all seem to be about the transition of humanity from being part of nature to being something apart from it. So I'd expect Wheel/Moth to fit that pattern. This is speculation on top of speculation, of course- Flint/Forge is fairly straightforward, and I think Coils/Colonel is fairly defensible, but we know so little about Tide/Grail that it's impossible to be sure of anything. The "Wheel is invention" take I dislike in particular because I don't really think of the Moth as about creativity/passion directly, but about the wild and humanity's suppressed animal nature, and passion being a part of that. Similarly, I think Flint and Forge cover all human craft and invention. That said, a big hole in my position here is that wheels are actually a fairly late invention, in this context- they're younger than the agricultural revolution, in fact. Yorkshire Pudding posted:This could all be inversed too, as perhaps the rise of these new Hours are what gave humanity the ability to forge tools and the drive to eat/drink/gently caress endlessly. I'm going to propose that, as far as the game's metaphysics are concerned, there is no meaningful difference. The map is the territory. e: The Egg Unhatching, now that one has me stumped. So, it's "usurper" is the Watchman, okay. Who is all about knowledge and enlightenment. But what does an egg mean? They're things which turn it to other things, okay. Living things, traditionally. So there's potential, maybe. But this is the Egg Unhatching; it is potential never realised. And this transition was peaceful, or at least not violent. The new and the old Hour are allies. What does all of that add up to? KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Feb 5, 2019 |
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Feb 5, 2019 23:49
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Autonomous Monster posted:e: The Egg Unhatching, now that one has me stumped. So, it's "usurper" is the Watchman, okay. Who is all about knowledge and enlightenment. But what does an egg mean? They're things which turn it to other things, okay. Living things, traditionally. So there's potential, maybe. But this is the Egg Unhatching; it is potential never realised. And this transition was peaceful, or at least not violent. The new and the old Hour are allies. What does all of that add up to? Could the Egg Unhatching be a representation of potential knowledge? You can't see inside an unhatched egg. But eggs, ultimately, wish to hatch.
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Feb 6, 2019 00:51
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Autonomous Monster posted:I'm still inclined to read the Wheel -> Moth usurpation as representing a transformation in humanity's relationship to the wild and their conception of the unknown and unknown spaces more generally. Specifically, I think it's about the (first) agricultural revolution and the beginnings of cultivation. In the beginning, all the world is wild. Human spaces are confined to the immediate vicinity of the hearth; hence any travel (the Wheel, in my interpretation) is travel into the unknown and untamed land. Once cultivation begins, humanity takes the cultivated landscape into their control: there is now a distinction between cultivated land and wilderness. Wildness ceases to be an omnipresent aspect of space, and becomes a property of specific spaces- the Wood, where the Moth lives. And even those spaces that remain wild are subordinated by this act of division- they may still be chaotic and dangerous, but that chaos now has limits placed upon it. It has a boundary. Re: The Moth, I don't think Moth represents the difference between settled areas vs. wilderness so much as the actual world vs. the supernatural world of the Mansus. I think the symbolism of the moth is wild, dangerous yearning. Much like moths will fly into the flames, humans will recklessly destroy themselves in fits of whimsy. I think this more specifically relates to humans strange desire to seek out the Glory, despite it's dangers. One of the quotes about the Glory is "The Moth always answers Yes", much like whimsical humans will drive themselves mad if they have an opportunity to be closer to the Glory. As for the Egg Unhatching, my theory is that it is/was The Watchman. We know that the newer Hours tried to destroy all the Gods-from-Stone, and that the Egg Unhatching tried to escape to the Glory. We also know, thanks to the new Major Victories, that a part of you can be banished to Nowhere (as happens in, at least, the Grail and Lantern Major Victories) while another "you" can ascend. I think this is what happened to the Egg Unhatching. It managed to escape the predations of the New Hours, but that sacrifice killed "it" and let another "it" return from the Glory as The Watchman. Reveilled posted:Could the Egg Unhatching be a representation of potential knowledge? You can't see inside an unhatched egg. But eggs, ultimately, wish to hatch. This is in line with my theory, as The Watchman and Lantern Aspect represents knowledge and enlightenment. The Egg Unhatching reached The Glory, and hatched. The "yolk" became the Watchman and the "shell" was cast down into Nowhere. Both things still exist, and were/are in some ways the same entity. edit: Also I just realized that Alexander the Great is the Lionsmith. Yorkshire Pudding fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Feb 6, 2019 |
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Feb 6, 2019 03:01
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Gotta say that Sunless Skies is drat gorgeous and Failbetter seems to have learned a lot from Sea (there are gameplay modifiers that you can select on startup to make your life easier, I decided to get only aiming aid), so you guys should pick it up if you liked the first game (bummer that you are no longer a zailor though)
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Feb 6, 2019 04:33
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IMO it is wrong to explain gods from stone from anthropocentric point of view. They are forces of nature that manifested themselves into Mansus and are under no obligation to be defined by humanity this or humanity that. My understanding is that they hanged out there before humans even existed. As for aspects, I am kind of curious about was the aspect of Sun in splendor. All the hours that appeared due to its division (except Meniscate) have a winter aspect which is kind of logical since they appeared due to death of the sun but it doesn't feel like they "inherited" it. Out of 2 original hours, the forge has it's own aspect so it stands to reason that the sun had one too but it is now gone.
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Feb 6, 2019 10:06
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Reading about the lore of the game is so much more fun than the game itself 
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Feb 6, 2019 10:18
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