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Randler posted:Why do right-wing idiots almost always go for "valorous defeats" when invoking military traditions? Aren't there at least some victories of English forces throughout history? This book is a really good deconstruction of the politics of self-pity and masochism and how that helped shape the Brexit vote. Some relevant quotes: quote:Of all the pleasurable emotions, self-pity is the one that most makes us want to be on our own. Since no one else can fully share it, it is best savoured in solitude. Only alone can we surrender completely to it and immerse ourselves in the steaming bath of hurt, outrage and tender regard for our terribly wronged selves. Brexit therefore makes sense for a nation that feels sorry for itself. The mystery, though, is how Britain, or more precisely England, came not just to experience this delightful sentiment but to define itself through it.
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Feb 4, 2019 22:12
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agincourt poitiers and crecy top 3 english victories and they were all in the middle ages lol there's also trafalgar i guess but boats were you guys special talent
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Feb 4, 2019 22:12
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hobbesmaster posted:I mean it was half British and half Prussian wasn't it? Prussians did the heavy lifting and then the English surrounded the decimated French old guard and obliterated them if I remember correctly.
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Feb 4, 2019 22:12
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Subjunctive posted:which are your three top ringing English victories? The 1966 World Cup Bucks Fizz at Eurovision 1981 Killing Diana before she could squeeze out a brown baby.
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Feb 4, 2019 22:13
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Agean90 posted:How about world war one, where the working class was slaughtered enmasse for spurious reasons not revealed to the public until well after it was started Solely in the interests of historical accuracy, I'll point out that the first waves of recruits sent to die on the wire were middle class as industrial life in early 20th century Britain was so unhealthy that working class recruits were initially turned away as they couldn't meet the fitness requirements (which were relaxed considerable once conscription was enacted). Loads of upper class twits also got killed as they rushed to gain glory as officers, and subsequently also got fed to the German guns.
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Feb 4, 2019 22:27
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Elevator Screamer posted:The 1966 World Cup "i know that was then but it could be again" should be the country's motto at this point
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Feb 4, 2019 22:29
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any British battle involving victory by longbow is a pyrrhic one as you have to deform the hell out of your body to fire the drat thing properly
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Feb 4, 2019 22:30
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all british victories are pyrrhic because they have all in some form or another, brought britain to brexit
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Feb 4, 2019 22:32
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A deformed Englishman is a given all things considered. Longbow or not.
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Feb 4, 2019 22:33
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hobbesmaster posted:"i know that was then but it could be again" should be the thread's motto at this point
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Feb 4, 2019 22:40
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hakimashou posted:there's also trafalgar i guess but boats were you guys special talent well Trafalgar wasn't so much a victory so much as an absolute thrashing, and Nelson still ended up dead during the course of the battle
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Feb 4, 2019 22:41
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Deformed English, Great Albion, plunging yourself into poverty to show dem drat uuropeans.
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Feb 4, 2019 22:45
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An insane mind posted:Deformed English, Great Albion, plunging yourself into poverty to show dem drat uuropeans. they hold all of the cards actually
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Feb 4, 2019 22:59
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https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1092548899896811520
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Feb 4, 2019 23:32
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looking forward to the Royal Navy resuming the ancient policy of impressment to deal with shortages after the brexit
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Feb 4, 2019 23:39
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Solely in the interests of historical accuracy, I'll point out that the first waves of recruits sent to die on the wire were middle class as industrial life in early 20th century Britain was so unhealthy that working class recruits were initially turned away as they couldn't meet the fitness requirements (which were relaxed considerable once conscription was enacted). Loads of upper class twits also got killed as they rushed to gain glory as officers, and subsequently also got fed to the German guns. Also the reasons for Britain's participation in the war were well known to the general public, both the immediate ones (Germany invades Belgium, triggering Great Britain's guarantee of the latter's independence) and underlying ones (tensions over German colonial and naval ambitions). The outbreak of war seemed to happen very quickly for the French and British public mostly because the press was distracted by the Caillaux Affair and unrest in Ireland, respectively. It wasn't immediately obvious that the killing of Archduke Ferdinand would trigger a 'general war' since similar near-misses like the Agadir Crisis had been settled by the traditional conference diplomacy between great powers; many observers expected it would lead at most to a regional conflict like the just-ended Balkan Wars. It was only when Austria-Hungary issued their ultimatum to the Serbs that people realized war was very possible and even then it wasn't until Russia mobilized that it was understood for certain. It's a myth that the great powers went to war over forgotten, possibly secret alliances; each great power had to actively maintain its alliances since there was no guarantee that they would be honored. Italy for example was technically allied to Germany and Austria-Hungary but, as most observers expected, declared neutrality at the start of the war, ostensibly because it was an offensive war but actually because of a conflict with the Austrians over Italian speaking parts of the Empire.
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Feb 4, 2019 23:39
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System Metternich posted:Also I found this: I honestly don't know if this is a serious good faith pondering or if it's sarcastic. Can we think of any events just prior to the 2016 referendum that might have made the historically pro-EU British Jewish community suddenly think the EU maybe doesn't consider their safety a major concern?
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Feb 4, 2019 23:41
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at the CoE going hard Brexit. I guess that correlates with the rural/urban split?
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:looking forward to the Royal Navy resuming the ancient policy of impressment to deal with shortages after the brexit .
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Feb 4, 2019 23:42
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Let me get this straight, the Brits are planning to unilaterally self-impose Napoleon's Continental System?
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Feb 4, 2019 23:42
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FMguru posted:Unnecessary - the chance to win ship prize money and the guarantee of grog and ship's biscuit every day would make service in the RN positively appealing relative to other economic opportunities in the post-Brexit UK pros: prize money cons: the prize money is in british pounds
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Feb 4, 2019 23:44
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Vitamin P posted:I honestly don't know if this is a serious good faith pondering or if it's sarcastic. what the gently caress are you on about
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Feb 4, 2019 23:52
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The Glumslinger posted:Let me get this straight, the Brits are planning to unilaterally self-impose Napoleon's Continental System? The continental system only limited trade with European countries; if no deal happens the UK is going to be on WTO rules (not even, actually) with everyone.
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Feb 4, 2019 23:53
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Coohoolin posted:what the gently caress are you on about Unironically put your cis white het male privilege aside for a moment and think about what happened in 2015, and why some minority groups might find that more threatening than you do. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 4, 2019 23:58
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Vitamin P posted:Unironically put your cis white het male privilege aside for a moment and think about what happened in 2015, and why some minority groups might find that more threatening than you do. i'm jewish you loving moron
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Feb 4, 2019 23:58
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Coohoolin posted:what the gently caress are you on about I think he's suggesting the 2015 attack in Paris might have aroused some fears about migrants. IMO the margin of support for Leave among British Jews in that poll is so slim that I don't think you can read too much into it, a lot the correlation probably just has to do with the average age of the respondents. Atheists/Agnostics, Muslims, 'other' = younger, pro-remain, Anglicans = older, pro-leave, other religious groups somewhere in between.
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Feb 5, 2019 00:00
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Coohoolin posted:i'm jewish you loving moron That's p. white
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Feb 5, 2019 00:00
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Fallen Hamprince posted:I think he's suggesting the 2015 attack in Paris might have aroused some fears about migrants. IMO the margin of support for Leave among British Jews in that poll is so slim that I don't think you can read too much into it, a lot the correlation probably just has to do with the average age of the respondents. Atheists/Agnostics, Muslims, 'other' = younger, pro-remain, Anglicans = older, pro-leave, other religious groups somewhere in between. you can shut the gently caress up anaw as well
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Feb 5, 2019 00:02
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Man spending your whole life in abject fear of migrants must make bird watching very hard to do.
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Feb 5, 2019 00:11
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Vitamin P posted:Unironically put your cis white het male privilege aside for a moment and think about what happened in 2015, and why some minority groups might find that more threatening than you do. just to be clear before the probe goes through as am i quite stoned but the implication of this argument is that british jews became anti-EU racists because of the paris attack, right
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Feb 5, 2019 00:13
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somebody explain to me for the fifth time why corbyn doesn’t just outright say he opposes brexit...? something another a referendum and will of the people despite the referendum being a bare majority and fatally flawed. ijdfgi
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Feb 5, 2019 00:14
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Raskolnikov38 posted:just to be clear before the probe goes through as am i quite stoned but the implication of this argument is that british jews became anti-EU racists because of the paris attack, right I thought referring to 2015 was about the refugee crisis and not necessarily the Paris attack, but he's being (deliberately) vague so who knows
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Feb 5, 2019 00:15
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Der Meister posted:somebody explain to me for the fifth time why corbyn doesn’t just outright say he opposes brexit...? something another a referendum and will of the people despite the referendum being a bare majority and fatally flawed. ijdfgi because rupert murdoch won
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Feb 5, 2019 00:16
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SKULL.GIF posted:I thought referring to 2015 was about the refugee crisis and not necessarily the Paris attack, but he's being (deliberately) vague so who knows regardless the implication is that british jews supported leave because of anti-muslim feelings correct?
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Feb 5, 2019 00:17
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It's because birds migrate you see.
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Feb 5, 2019 00:17
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Feb 5, 2019 00:18
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Vitamin P posted:Unironically put your cis white het male privilege aside for a moment and think about what happened in 2015, and why some minority groups might find that more threatening than you do. I can't believe the rise of TRUMP turned Jewish Brits into racists
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Feb 5, 2019 00:18
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Blurred posted:This book is a really good deconstruction of the politics of self-pity and masochism and how that helped shape the Brexit vote. Some relevant quotes: I'm reminded of something a Yorkie coworker once told me several years ago. He was looking a bit morose, and when I asked him what was on his mind he said "England doesn't have any action heroes anymore." I thought this was funny because his nickname was The Transporter for his resemblance to Jason Statham. It seemed to me like he was troubled by long term decline of UK cultural, economic, and military global dominance, and what that implied about his own place in the world and identity as an Englishman. When I see the absolutely nonsensical debate over brexit I am reminded of this conversation. That maybe it is driven by a desire to reassert the fading Imperial glory, and a refusal to accept Britain's relegation to a bit player in history. I just hope people can learn their lesson and come to their senses without too much self inflicted injury.
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Feb 5, 2019 00:22
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Vitamin P posted:what happened in 2015  Show me on the bank statement where Corbyn nationalized you.
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Feb 5, 2019 00:25
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old whites tend to say they’re Coe when they are practically areligious I think it’s been noted that the geographic picture of brexit is a bit skewed though, like while the north had more areas voting 50%+ for brexit, it was the south east that provided the most votes by volume
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Feb 5, 2019 00:26
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Der Meister posted:somebody explain to me for the fifth time why corbyn doesn’t just outright say he opposes brexit...? something another a referendum and will of the people despite the referendum being a bare majority and fatally flawed. ijdfgi Corbyn campaigned (reluctantly) against Brexit but like most politicians he committed to honoring the result of the referendum and outright jettisoning it would be very unpopular. Labour's overwhelmingly remainer membership got a platform commitment to a second referendum if Labour can't get an early election but there's no parliamentary majority for either of those things. Brexit is putting Labour frontbenchers and backbench MPs in leave areas in an extremely awkward situation which is why Corbyn is being intentionally cagey about the whole thing; the strategy seems to be to let voters project their preferred Brexit policy onto Labour, force an early election and then hope that the Tory party rips itself in half since their divisions are even worse. Corbyn himself is pretty frosty on the EU. There is a small left-Leave faction on the fringes of Labour and while he probably isn't in it he does share a lot of the concerns that the hard left has with the EU, enough not too be very enthusiastic about trying to reverse the referendum result. But honestly in the mirror universe where Yvette Cooper were opposition leader Labour's handling of the Brexit fiasco probably wouldn't be too different. The Tory party is on fire trying to confront the material implications of the referendum vote and the smart thing for an opposition party to do in these circumstances is to point at them and say "Look how much they're loving it all up."
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Feb 5, 2019 00:32
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