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Alpha Phoenix posted:Then he talked to a PP rep who convinced him to buy 2-3x of the whole (new) grymkin line. We ended up with one semi regular who bought a few and the rest rotted on the shelf, and we never saw another new warmachine product in the store. PP used to have a $400 and an $800 "starter kit" for game stores to pick up that gave them battleboxes, plus the common units, jacks, beasts, solos and attachments that were "core" to the factions in the game. It was a ready made list that, to my recollection, was made available on the press ganger forums, or to the press gangers for the asking. I would be very suprised if they didn't still have something like that. Though, after reaching out to PP this last week, myself, and having them reply with a message where the person *clearly* didn't read anything from the 3rd sentence on, I wouldn't be surprised if their customer service and retail support people aren't turning into the new marketing and sales focus with PP seeking to go more direct-sales. Edit: Found it on their retail support page: http://files.privateerpress.com/retailsupport/Essential%20RangeJan2017.pdf https://privateerpress.com/support/retailer-support#tools koreban fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 00:09
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koreban posted:... I wouldn't be surprised if their customer service and retail support people aren't turning into the new marketing and sales focus with PP seeking to go more direct-sales. This is what I'm blaming in this case, he was convinced that grymkin was going to be the new hotness by the rep. Combined with that store owner being fairly gullible / poor at business... that store isn't around anymore for a couple reasons. But that aside, my points on metrics and casual play still stand. I predict that the new CEO is going to make 'more chill casual game' changes that pro players will hate because it means time is being spent on not-them, but will be healthy for the game on the whole and bring more people into it.
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Feb 1, 2019 00:54
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Here's my hot business plan: "What if Kill Team but Warmahordes and not 40k" I await my check, Privateer Press.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:05
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Alpha Phoenix posted:But that aside, my points on metrics and casual play still stand. I predict that the new CEO is going to make 'more chill casual game' changes that pro players will hate because it means time is being spent on not-them, but will be healthy for the game on the whole and bring more people into it. On that note, apparently William Q. Hungerford Esq. posted on facebook the other day something to the tune of: quote:“#Warmachine community, let’s chat. Boy oh BOY did that go over like a steaming turd in the cheerios of local folks on discord. You're probably right, and given some consideration, it's probably not a bad thing for the game overall. Ash from Guerilla Miniature Games had a "Top5 games in need of a New Edition" youtube video at the end of last year, and #1 on his list was Warmahordes. He argued that the game had been creeping steadily toward a full blown miniature wargame (vis-a-vis Warhammer) sized game while still claiming to be a "skirmish wargame" and that they should probably just embrace the full wargame idea and go to 100 point lists on a 6x4 table. So it's not like Hungerford is asking this question in a vacuum, and if the goal of the games are to remain "skirmish wargames", then given the amount of models people are putting down these days and the values in free points that themes are granting, dropping to 50 points isn't the worst idea. Personally, and without giving it a ton of though, I might have suggested doing steamrollers at 50 points, and keeping Masters/Champions/Iron Gauntlet in the 75 point range. At least that way the hardcore guys have a game mode and the not-ultra-competitive players had a game mode more to that speed, but I can see the argument that if tournaments are played at 75, everyone will only ever play at 75.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:06
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I like 75 points pretty well, but I agree that warmahordes really should make the choice to either reduce size back to a skirmish game with a stronger focus on battlegroups, or increase size to full wargame with a stronger focus on combined arms. That's def a question for a new edition though, and I don't think they want to go there.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:17
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My personal bias in Mk2 was 35 point lists. I played a 50 point list against IRSmartLikeRock a couple weeks ago and it felt limiting when I put it together, but it felt good as a "getting back into it" game and adding 1-2 more units and a couple of solos might have just overwhelmed the board. I'm organizing a JML to get locals back into playing, so I'll be doing the 0-75 progression with a steamroller tournament at the end for participants. I'm sure I'll have a much better feel for it after the JML concludes, so take what I say now with that bias in mind. That said, I don't think WMH would benefit from larger scale full wargame rules in a new edition because there's just no way it wouldn't turn into a situation where you'd bunker your warcaster and try to fish out the other one for assassination with everything you can bring with huge threat extensions.
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Feb 1, 2019 01:24
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Serenade posted:Here's my hot business plan: "What if Kill Team but Warmahordes and not 40k" not after Company Of Iron i don't think 
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Feb 1, 2019 02:09
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koreban posted:My personal bias in Mk2 was 35 point lists. I played a 50 point list against IRSmartLikeRock a couple weeks ago and it felt limiting when I put it together, but it felt good as a "getting back into it" game and adding 1-2 more units and a couple of solos might have just overwhelmed the board. 50 points currently is almost exactly the same scale that the old 35 point games were, fwiw. Also, I think part of WMH advantage is that it's between a skirmish game and a full sized company scale game. The game was never a skirmish game past the initial battlegroup box releases. If Riot Quest ends up getting some actual support, even if the rules aren't amazing out of the gate (ahem, Company of Iron), that will absolutely fill an important niche in getting people into the models and universe. The new CEO is probably not going to change anything as far as the games focus on competitive play, but Riot Quest is an excellent way to introduce more casual players without having to change that. mp5 posted:not after Company Of Iron i don't think I mean, that's what Riot Quest is being hyped as, to a degree. I'm mostly just interested in seeing how much of the current model range will be able to be used in RQ.
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Feb 1, 2019 03:00
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S.J. posted:The new CEO is probably not going to change anything as far as the games focus on competitive play, but Riot Quest is an excellent way to introduce more casual players without having to change that.
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Feb 1, 2019 05:34
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S.J. posted:I think part of WMH advantage is that it's between a skirmish game and a full sized company scale game. The game was never a skirmish game past the initial battlegroup box releases. I agree, it straddles the line well enough that someone who wants to play a skirmish game can play against someone who wants to play a full scale wargame and still have a fairly balanced game. At 75 points, I can play a list with 11 models + 6 paingivers against an opponent with ~50 infantry and the game doesn't fall apart at a fundamental gameplay/dice level the way Warham does in the same situation.
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Feb 1, 2019 06:08
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S.J. posted:50 points currently is almost exactly the same scale that the old 35 point games were, fwiw. I think that was poorly worded. I was and am aware of the points scale difference between editions. The statement I was trying to make was that when I initially built the list it felt limiting at 50 points. But once I played out the game, I felt like 50% more “stuff” on the board would have felt like it was crowding the table. I liked not being able to pressure both sides equally, and having to come up with a defense for my “weak” side instead of just luck of the turn order and/or attrition.
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Feb 1, 2019 09:26
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koreban posted:I think that was poorly worded. I was and am aware of the points scale difference between editions. Remember that 50-75 isn't 50% more stuff. There's 24-30pts of Jacks/Beasts involved in both. So you're talking about 80 total points in a '50pt' game compared to '105' in a '75pt', which is really just a ~25% bump.
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Feb 1, 2019 10:35
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Harkano posted:Remember that 50-75 isn't 50% more stuff. There's 24-30pts of Jacks/Beasts involved in both. So you're talking about 80 total points in a '50pt' game compared to '105' in a '75pt', which is really just a ~25% bump. I was playing S1 in Winter Guard Kommand. I had 2 jacks on the table. If I added more, it would have been another unit of winterguard (rifle corps) plus rockets, plus 2 more free solos. This is on top of a full WG infantry block with attachment and Joe, snipers and marksman, and mechanics, which I likely would have dropped to replace for in-theme points and more free theme stuff, maybe a min WG infantry block and field gun. I understand that it doesn’t always work out like that, but in this case, yeah it would have.
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Feb 1, 2019 12:53
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koreban posted:I was playing S1 in Winter Guard Kommand. I had 2 jacks on the table. If I added more, it would have been another unit of winterguard (rifle corps) plus rockets, plus 2 more free solos. This is on top of a full WG infantry block with attachment and Joe, snipers and marksman, and mechanics, which I likely would have dropped to replace for in-theme points and more free theme stuff, maybe a min WG infantry block and field gun. Ah yes. You also definitely unlock more freebies as you level up as well, which can't help.
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Feb 1, 2019 15:28
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While the world outside was busy freezing over and I had some days off had the time to paint some gun pig. Edit: Remembered how the gently caress to use my cameraphone and got a better version. darnon fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Feb 2, 2019 |
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Feb 2, 2019 01:40
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darnon posted:While the world outside was busy freezing over and I had some days off had the time to paint some gun pig. That looks great. Nice job.
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Feb 2, 2019 02:58
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I’m prepping for my JML that kicks off in a week and while I was all set to jump into Sorscha1 leaning into Armored Corps for a week 4 Sorscha3 swap... I sort of want to take advantage of the rule allowance I made to play Cylena -1. I’m tempted to play Winter Guard Kommand though that could get janky quick with Rifle Corps. (Rules are week 1-3 byobb - bring your own battlebox. No 2/3/4 iteration casters, battlegroup should add up to allotment on card. -1/1 casters okay for week 1-3, full caster/battlegroup swap allowed on week 4.) Alternatively, there’s Jaws of the Wolf, which could be fun, too. Does anyone have insight from last summer’s event on Cylena as a Khador warcaster?
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Feb 5, 2019 04:14
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I mean, she looks like a ton of fun. You'll never probably use her in a tournament, so I say go hog wild man.
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Feb 5, 2019 06:24
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S.J. posted:I mean, she looks like a ton of fun. You'll never probably use her in a tournament, so I say go hog wild man. As I told someone in discord tonight when they asked about the -1 casters: "When the hell else will you get an opportunity to play them?" Plus, painting her up in black leather armor with red highlights like Zerkova2 just seems real good.
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Feb 5, 2019 06:34
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Definitely not for the league play, but the end of event steamroller tournament I might just drop this list.quote:War Room Army
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Feb 5, 2019 09:32
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Just uh pray you won't have a Grymkin player fielding the Harbinger. Still not seeing why you are holding to the "Only version 1 of casters" bits, but hey your league, your rules.
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Feb 5, 2019 11:03
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Iceclaw posted:Just uh pray you won't have a Grymkin player fielding the Harbinger. Still not seeing why you are holding to the "Only version 1 of casters" bits, but hey your league, your rules. Mostly to avoid having someone show up with large-base casters or caster units. It's only for the first 3 weeks and then people can swap to anything on week 4. I'm trying to avoid people walking into situations they just have zero answer to on weeks 1-2. edit: rifle corps, decimators, rockets, field gun, widowmakers... all have greater than 12" range on their guns so they can dodge her feat. She can only sac pawn so many models a turn before she starts taking true hits. I take your meaning, though. koreban fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Feb 5, 2019 |
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Feb 5, 2019 17:49
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Well... I don't mean to rain on your parade, there, but even legit Harbinger is a 1 caster. In terms of large bases, you have Butcher 1, Karchev, Child, Malekus, and quite a bunch. I would have went with a list of actually banned casters.
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Feb 5, 2019 18:54
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Got a game in for the first time in something like a year, and certainly the first time since the Gator CID dropped on war room. 50 points, took all loving afternoon because game is hard and brain is bad. Played Jaga against Steelheads, 30 infantry made me really regret taking a swamp horror instead of a spitter. Battle host and signs & portents are so drat good, and I'm really fond of the max posse + max croaks + min ambushers module for hitting 40pts exactly. Need to work on screening and initiating trades, both of us were very tentative and I got shot a lot.
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Feb 5, 2019 19:07
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Iceclaw posted:Well... I don't mean to rain on your parade, there, but even legit Harbinger is a 1 caster. In terms of large bases, you have Butcher 1, Karchev, Child, Malekus, and quite a bunch. I would have went with a list of actually banned casters. I think he meant huge based casters like Reznik 2 and Lylyth 3
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Feb 5, 2019 19:23
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Iceclaw posted:Well... I don't mean to rain on your parade, there, but even legit Harbinger is a 1 caster. In terms of large bases, you have Butcher 1, Karchev, Child, Malekus, and quite a bunch. I would have went with a list of actually banned casters. I was unclear, I meant 120mm base casters.
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Feb 5, 2019 19:48
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MCPeePants posted:Got a game in for the first time in something like a year, and certainly the first time since the Gator CID dropped on war room. 50 points, took all loving afternoon because game is hard and brain is bad. I did the same a couple weeks back and my 50 point game took several hours as well. It comes back though. Besides if you had fun for several hours, that’s what matters.
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Feb 5, 2019 19:50
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Played my first game in months using Double Judicator High Reclaimer for the first time against Orion, who I'd also never fought before The crapton of Shield Guards meant my Judicators couldnt do as much work as I wanted, and he did eventually one-round one of them with his Prime Conflux and some lucky puncture-bots. The shield guards prevented me from taking his jacks off the table at the rate I needed to, but putting No Spells on the jacks meant Orion could never feat on me so that was good It was good to get back into playing though, and rolling 5 dice and dropping the lowest 2 on POW 14-17 ranged attacks is crazy
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Feb 5, 2019 20:03
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The sprays are the most dangerous part and can't be shield guarded. That particular list can dish out some insane damage spikes
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Feb 5, 2019 20:21
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Yeah I was still doing work with the sprays but I left a couple of jacks on 3-4 boxes sometimes which the Choir buff would have taken care of. Fun list and I'm gonna finish painting it and play it again for sure
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Feb 5, 2019 20:25
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Oof that hurts but yeah glad you're having fun with it. It's definitely a meta bender list. I'm currently on the Ret train but eventually I'll go back to my first love Menoth
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Feb 5, 2019 20:30
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:Oof that hurts but yeah glad you're having fun with it. It's definitely a meta bender list. I'm currently on the Ret train but eventually I'll go back to my first love Menoth Dooo itttt Judicators make me rage irl
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Feb 5, 2019 23:35
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The first time I played against that list. I literally stopped the game and had them explain the whole rules interaction to me because I couldn't believe it was real
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Feb 5, 2019 23:53
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I don't really know how to deploy the rest of the list yet though, and part of me wants to take Kreoss1 with it instead but the points are so tight it'll mess everything up
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Feb 5, 2019 23:58
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koreban posted:I did the same a couple weeks back and my 50 point game took several hours as well. It's interesting, I find the scale of WMH a bit bloated for my taste so 50pts should be right in the sweet spot, but the Blindwater theme really encourages at least 40pts of infantry and I want more beasts than that leaves available! 75 ain't so bad though, especially with just one unit of small based infantry.
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Feb 6, 2019 17:17
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Privateer CID is up! ROCKET FIST COLOSSAL AND EXPLOSION MONKEYS e: Holy poo poo the theme benefit gives a loving ship bombardment S.J. fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Feb 6, 2019 |
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Feb 6, 2019 18:20
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MCPeePants posted:It's interesting, I find the scale of WMH a bit bloated for my taste so 50pts should be right in the sweet spot, but the Blindwater theme really encourages at least 40pts of infantry and I want more beasts than that leaves available! 75 ain't so bad though, especially with just one unit of small based infantry. I have a *real unpopular*, as in being told to shut my face, unpopular, opinion on my local area discord when I said I thought there was probably a place for 50ish point games, while leaving high level competitive tournaments in the 75 point range. Someone with an equally *unpopular opinion* suggested there may be a sweet spot closer to 60 points that could be in that not-too-big range where themes seem to play okay, but you’re not getting absolutely everything. With themes giving away so many free points now, and warcaster getting 2 full jacks allowance in battlegroup allotments, 75 points in mk.3 really does feel like it’s much bigger than 50 point mk.2 games. I fully capitulate to someone with strong opinions that I’m way wrong because it’s been a few years, but I don’t think I am. 50 feels about right. Some themes might have to have their point thresholds adjusted down slightly, but I’m confident it would work.
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Feb 6, 2019 21:32
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S.J. posted:Privateer CID is up! ROCKET FIST COLOSSAL AND EXPLOSION MONKEYS Yo loving ho! I’m definitely going to need a bigger case for my tiny case-o-pirates. 
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Feb 6, 2019 21:36
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Pirates getting to use the Cryx Scharde units in theme is a pretty big deal in terms of diversity. I like that the new Pirate caster is a Cryx partisan too. Yeah it's more poo poo for Cryx which is already a rich faction but I really like that kind of crossover stuff. Let's them do less with more.
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Feb 6, 2019 21:52
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I love Fiona and my immediate response was that I could get into Mercs, but my recent frustrations with there not being any communication from PP about updates to the pigs half of Minions stuff makes me not want to put money into a faction with an undefined release schedule.
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Feb 7, 2019 00:00
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