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So there's that "You Can't Waste Your Vote" comic which goes through preferential voting for the house of reps. Is there a similar comic or simple explanation of the ballot for the senate? Like I've heard people say that voting above the line is bad but I don't really know why, and I'm not going to go and do research on every single person on that phone book of a voting form.
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Feb 7, 2019 03:32
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 18:26 |
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100YrsofAttitude posted:Thank you for doing my work for me. Seriously though this is very informative. I didn't realize there was such electoral strife in Australia. Of course that'd have huge impacts over time and it's clear it's been quite some time. And we haven't even gotten started on the wonderful way our similar frontier cultures deal with indigenous issues. Deaths in custody, stolen generation (well more than one, and it continues to this day), deliberate dispossession despite land rights laws going back 40 years, and many other forms of tyranny too numerous to mention. But roos do hop across the street where I live, kookaburras sing at dawn and dusk and there's probably a koala or two up the local eucalypti.
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Feb 7, 2019 03:37
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Solemn Sloth posted:Also when discussing the hostility to the environment by some parties, it’s literally actively and publicly hostile. Our current prime minister brought a lump of coal into parliament as a prop to taunt people who believe in climate change. A sitting senator wore a mining company’s work uniform into a session of the senate. High profile ministers were caught on camera joking about the impact of sea level rises on our neighbouring pacific island nations. Don't forget the senator who wore a burka into the senate in an attempt to protest the fact that anyone could walk into the senate wearing a burqa and no one would care or some s*** like thatb who cares what Pauline Hanson goes on about half the time Hey look my voice-to-text sensor my swear words f****** terrible
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Feb 7, 2019 03:40
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on the plus side though we did have that Western Australian minister for the arts that song the year in parliament song to the tune of sound of silence that was pretty Kick-rear end
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Feb 7, 2019 03:42
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Ten Becquerels posted:I went to my first Greens branch meeting... You can't make this up.
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Feb 7, 2019 03:42
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sounds more like a green brunch meeting
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Feb 7, 2019 03:49
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Steve Holt! posted:So there's that "You Can't Waste Your Vote" comic which goes through preferential voting for the house of reps. Is there a similar comic or simple explanation of the ballot for the senate? Like I've heard people say that voting above the line is bad but I don't really know why, and I'm not going to go and do research on every single person on that phone book of a voting form. Not yet, but I’m hoping to make one this year, so hearing about what people are confused by, or what questions they have about it, is really helpful! Hearing answers is helpful too, since I’m not an expert by any means.
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Feb 7, 2019 03:59
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Also to the guy wanting to know more about the backstory to oz current events: - we have no official overarching anti corruption mechanism at the federal level, and while australians current perceive the country as mostly not corrupt, this has been changing over time as it’s become obvious that federal parties seem to do things at the behest of a minority of powerful interests, domestic and foreign; - our economy has recently been proven to be ticking over mainly because of one of the worlds highest rates of immigration and if we didn’t have the rate we do now we would have been in recession a lot sooner; - our housing market is crashing, mostly in sydney and melbourne, because banks have recently been forced to reduce lending by tightening up lending criteria. lots of people in australia have their only major form of wealth in their house and in super so naturally this is causing issues with the economy too; - we have a habit of deregulating and streamlining business conditions, privatising government services where we can and regulating the labor market. if we hadn’t regulated labor in the seventies (cartoon???) then we would be in a similar position to a lot of american right to work states that have no conditions and slave wages - it is difficult for foreigners to grasp the size of this country and how empty it is. 95% of our population live in the largest eight cities of the country and millions of hectares of land has nothing in it but the odd endangered species and a few cockies and indigenous folks. this place is big, and a lot of our politics, economics and social issues stem from managing a land mass the size of the USA with only 25 million people (roughly 1/12th the population of the USA, just over a third the population of france)
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Feb 7, 2019 04:00
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https://twitter.com/squigglyrick/status/1093287663170244608?s=21
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Feb 7, 2019 04:03
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Steve Holt! posted:So there's that "You Can't Waste Your Vote" comic which goes through preferential voting for the house of reps. Is there a similar comic or simple explanation of the ballot for the senate? Like I've heard people say that voting above the line is bad but I don't really know why, and I'm not going to go and do research on every single person on that phone book of a voting form. Above the Line voting for the Senate used to be very bad because lead to people getting elected because of backroom deals rather than the wishes of the voters. It was fixed before the 2016 Federal election and but is a problem in places like Victoria at the state level (as we saw during the last election). Voting above the line now is a quick way of voting for all the candidates in that group, not all the candidates in that group and then whoever they did a deal with. ----- This is a slightly edited version of a writeup I did back in 2016 when the Senate voting reform changes were going through. Most of the links are to wikipedia entries about technical details. The really short summary of the system is this: popular people get elected, unpopular ones get excluded, less popular ones get elected, less unpopular ones get excluded, etc, etc. ---- Let's have a look at how Hare-Clark votes (also known as Single Transferable Vote or STV ballots) are counted. I'll try and keep it a relatively general explanation while still mentioning the specifics used in the Senate. There are a lot of fiddly details with STV, and it's easy to get bogged down in them. We'll start with a refresher on the much simpler preferential voting (also known as Instant-Runoff Voting, or IRV), familiar to everyone as the system used in the House of Representatives and many other lower houses. How does preferential voting work? Voters rank candidates in order of preference. Federally there is a requirement for all candidates to receive a preference, but Optional Preferential Voting (OPV) exists in some States The count proceeds as follows:
How could it be improved? For starters, if a Labor candidate wins 60-40% against their Liberal opponent then 40% of the electorate still got a candidate they didn't like. There's not much you can do about that if you only elect one person, but what if you could elect more? 2 Labor candidates and 1 Liberal might more accurately reflect the views of that electorate. How does STV voting work? Since we are trying to elect candidates who represent only portions of the electorate, it makes sense to reduce the number of preferences candidates require to be elected. This number is called the quota, and is best expressed as a fraction of the total votes. The common approach is to set the quota at 1/(number of positions + 1). For a normal Senate election with 6 senators the quota 1/7th of the vote (around 14%), and for a DD election (with 12 senators) the quota is 1/13 (around 8%). In the NSW state election (with 21 MLCs) the quota is 1/22 (around 4.5%). In fact, preferential voting is the same as STV where you are trying to elect only one candidate (and hence the quota is 1/(1+1) = 50%). This leads to a problem: once a candidate is elected, what should be done with their ballots? It's easy to imagine a system where a candidate receives far more than a quota, but you can't elect the same person twice (as much as Nick Xenophon* would like). There are multiple options for what to do with these surplus votes, with the common theme being that winning candidate's ballots are less significant, either because only some are reallocated or (as in the Senate) because the reallocated ballots are weighed to reduce their value. In the event that a ballot would be reallocated to another successful candidate it's easiest just to ignore that and continue looking at lower preferences (as happens for the Senate), but other options exist. This process continues until none of the remaining candidates have more than a quota. The next step is to start excluding candidates, and this follows broadly the same pattern as for the Reps: the least popular candidate is excluded, and their ballots are reallocated according to their next preference. So here's how it works:
This sounds complex! From a counting perspective, it is. It's much better handled by computers. Some of the variants exist to make things easier by hand (at the cost of some randomness or the theoretical possibility of strategic voting), while others allow or require recounting at basically every step (which is impractical unless done electronically). From the point of view of a voter, it isn't. You rank your preferences, then the system takes over. Popular people get elected, unpopular ones get excluded, less popular ones get elected, less unpopular ones get excluded, etc, etc. So how does optional preferential voting work? What happens if I number 1-12 and then stop? Exhausted ballots drop out of the count. In some systems (eg Tasmania) this means that the final candidate(s) will be elected with less than a quota. Other systems dynamically update the quota to reflect exhausted votes (and other factors). What about a system like MMP or Party Lists? These are other methods of handling multi-member electorates. I'm not familiar enough with them to do a write-up. What about First-Past-the-Post?  What about <issue>? Ask away. You got something wrong It happens. Give me a yell and I'll fix it. * This aged well. Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Feb 7, 2019 |
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Feb 7, 2019 04:11
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Feb 7, 2019 04:47
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Honest Government Ad | The ABC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa8rSc2dung
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Feb 7, 2019 04:57
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Les Affaires posted:Also to the guy wanting to know more about the backstory to oz current events:
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Feb 7, 2019 05:24
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Les Affaires posted:- it is difficult for foreigners to grasp the size of this country and how empty it is. 95% of our population live in the largest eight cities of the country and millions of hectares of land has nothing in it but the odd endangered species and a few cockies and indigenous folks. this place is big, and a lot of our politics, economics and social issues stem from managing a land mass the size of the USA with only 25 million people (roughly 1/12th the population of the USA, just over a third the population of france) This is very applicable in Europe. Living in Perth, I can drive 12 hours at 100km/hr to a holiday destination and not only still be in the same country but still in the same state. From where I am by car it takes me a minimum of 15 hours driving to get out of the state basically all of that at 100km/hr. I could drive from Paris to Budapest from where I live and not leave the State I live in. The nearest capital city is Paris -> Istanbul away (Perth -> Adelaide).
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Feb 7, 2019 06:08
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A man says taxation laws do not apply to him because he does not accept recognition as a person – an argument a magistrate has described as nonsense. Glen James Polglaise, of North Bendigo, failed to submit six tax returns for the financial years ending 2012 to 2017. On Wednesday, Polglaise – who stated his name was Glen, of the family Polglaise – told the Bendigo Magistrates Court that "as a human being who waives my right to recognition as a person", he did not accept the six charges of failing to provide an income tax return. Polglaise referred to international covenants to support his argument that he was not subject to taxation laws, including the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Universal Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, quoting the latter’s assertion that no one should be held in servitude. He also stated that the person named in the charges was not him, and argued his "natural wealth" was being withheld.
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Feb 7, 2019 06:24
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Lid posted:A man says taxation laws do not apply to him because he does not accept recognition as a person – an argument a magistrate has described as nonsense. Cool if he abandons all his rights, confiscate everything he has. Then tell him he's not a person and as such the objects have no ownership and are fair salvage.
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Feb 7, 2019 06:35
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Beat him with a cane until dead.
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Feb 7, 2019 06:39
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Macau has no public transport. Buses and trains run by different casinos.
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Feb 7, 2019 06:42
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lol the AstroTurf retiree group may have broken electoral laws regarding disclosure
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Feb 7, 2019 06:42
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Solemn Sloth posted:lol the AstroTurf retiree group may have broken electoral laws regarding disclosure 
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Feb 7, 2019 06:43
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Solemn Sloth posted:lol the AstroTurf retiree group may have broken electoral laws regarding disclosure Is this the truckies posing as retirees group?
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Feb 7, 2019 06:44
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Solemn Sloth posted:It’s actually about an infinite times the salary a local worker would get given the jobs will go to underpaid foreign workers on visas. Agreed that the Labor party was not formed to support immigrating labour (New Zealand shearers, I am looking at you) but Australia has successfully operated much higher levels of immigration than a lot of other countries and they need somewhere to work that pays a good wage. Also, they then they might become an underpaid (in their opinion, I know Aussies are paid more as overseas workers than even Brits or Europeans and especially South African) Aussie overseas worker like a lot of people have become - bringing in income into Australia through exporting skilled work rather than capital which is something that I believe Australia could and should do more of.
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Feb 7, 2019 06:45
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This place is nuts it's like Mafia city
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Feb 7, 2019 06:46
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Solemn Sloth posted:lol the AstroTurf retiree group may have broken electoral laws regarding disclosure Nothing ever comes of these lols
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Feb 7, 2019 06:52
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hooman posted:Cool if he abandons all his rights, confiscate everything he has. Then tell him he's not a person and as such the objects have no ownership and are fair salvage. Hell yeah ghosts don't need property, gives his poo poo to somebody on hold with centrelink
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Feb 7, 2019 06:55
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Have you traveled overseas before anidav?
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Feb 7, 2019 07:05
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Anidav posted:This place is nuts it's like Mafia city Level 1 Anidav -> Level 35 TOML
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Feb 7, 2019 07:12
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Thank you all for such useful information. It really helps put things into perspective. My main takeaways -The freeze on action born from electoral instability and the three major outside interests of the banking and mining sectors and the Murdoch press. -Impacted by climate change in a major way with current flooding and fires and wildlife die-off. This is compounded by a general ignoring or out right disbelief in the issue. -Despite a large intake of immigrants, both a possibility due to small population and the amount of land available, Australia hasn't got the best track record regarding non-whites, particularly regarding their own indigenous populations.
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Feb 7, 2019 07:26
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tell your students about how a famous auspol poster once applied for a job that had a requirement of being fluent in french despite not being fluent in french at all, hoping he could scam his way into the job by impersonating the spy from team fortress 2
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Feb 7, 2019 07:35
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hambeet posted:Have you traveled overseas before anidav? Yeah but special economic zones like Macau are very strange.
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Feb 7, 2019 07:38
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And that poster was. Mithranderp
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Feb 7, 2019 07:38
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Anidav posted:Macau has no public transport. Buses and trains run by different casinos. This is the future Liberals want
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Feb 7, 2019 07:48
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I went into a casino The minimum bet was about 1500 aud I moonwalked out of there
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Feb 7, 2019 07:51
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GoldStandardConure posted:tell your students about how a famous auspol poster once applied for a job that had a requirement of being fluent in french despite not being fluent in french at all, hoping he could scam his way into the job by impersonating the spy from team fortress 2 What
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Feb 7, 2019 07:56
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Don't listen to GSC and his tall tales. He's delirious. He lost a lung.
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Feb 7, 2019 08:00
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Ten Becquerels posted:I went to my first Greens branch meeting last night Being a rep can be some pretty easy business as a lot of proposals are remarkably dry and procedural, rather than anything that gets robust. You also get to meet some of the people in the wider state organisation and I've met a lot of cool people through the Greens. It's also just fun to bitch about politics to other people who are interested in it (much like this thread). Good on you for getting stuck in.
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Feb 7, 2019 08:04
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it was a short meeting and below quorum but everyone was very nice and a lot of the meeting was basically explaining things to me. I got roped into being the rotating rep but hopefully I won't have to do much since there was only one proposal and we won't have a formal vote or any real objections to it.
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I hate that the lnp can rob an entire generation with changes to education, housing, welfare etc and they need not do any public consulting or face much scrutiny, even if they were elected on promises not to make cuts to those areas. But if you try to stop giving public funding to a few thousand already wealthy old folk it will turn into a big enough deal to be considered a somewhat risky political maneuver. I've said it before, but media reform and lobbying/political financing need to be labor's number one priority once they make it in the door. It's not something to campaign on, but once in it is a necessary fight, no matter how suicidal it may seem to take on the media. Any positive change they might achieve will just be undone and then some if they cant hold power and shift the Overton window enough to permanently kill the lnp on both fiscal and social policy. Shout out to samsung keyboard for going beyond spellcheck and somehow knowing to suggest Overton window when all I could contribute was "political culture".
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Feb 7, 2019 08:09
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Anidav posted:Don't listen to GSC and his tall tales. He's delirious. He lost a lung. I think it was a Packer who owns a major casino in Macau?
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Feb 7, 2019 08:11
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Heads are starting to roll at the banks after the Royal Commission https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/feb/07/nab-shares-put-in-trading-halt-pending-announcement-regarding-leadership The poo poo thing is Thorburn still has the view that NAB and him personally did nothing wrong. Holy poo poo, the FSU assistant secretary has the view that Ken Henry has done no wrong. Is the FSU as bad as the SDA?
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Feb 7, 2019 08:11
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To be honest? I love a sunburnt country.
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Feb 7, 2019 08:12
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