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Tiggum posted:Aren't most super heroes conservative by their nature? They're generally on the side of the police or are even government sanctioned law enforcement agents themselves; they often very nationalistic (or at least patriotic); they tend to go after lower-class criminals such as burglars, drug dealers and and murderers (because Superman vs. the embezzler doesn't exactly scream excitement); they tend to support the status quo (eg. they generally seem to think that super powers you're born with are fine but if you try to give yourself powers later in life that's evil); they're often rich (or have powers that allow them to ignore their lack of money). I'm sure there are counter-examples, but as a genre it seems pretty right-leaning to me. Well, isn't Superman's most iconic enemy a CEO, unless they've completely rebooted Lex Luthor's origins? The X-Men also tend to fight racial supremacists of either flavour for most of their stuff, at least back when I still read that hot mess of a comic.
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Feb 8, 2019 11:25
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Twitter bots are not immune from getting ratioed. https://twitter.com/fckeveryword/status/1093789030624440321 https://twitter.com/getFANDOM/status/1093603103377580032
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Feb 8, 2019 11:38
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Feb 8, 2019 11:52
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hello darkness my old friend
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Feb 8, 2019 12:31
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TinTower posted:Twitter bots are not immune from getting ratioed. Can't wait for it to say gently caress trump!!!
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Feb 8, 2019 12:37
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PurpleXVI posted:Well, isn't Superman's most iconic enemy a CEO, unless they've completely rebooted Lex Luthor's origins? The X-Men also tend to fight racial supremacists of either flavour for most of their stuff, at least back when I still read that hot mess of a comic. Superman and the X-Men are also people who are just plain born better than everyone else and we're all expected to respect that. There's some strong liberal-leaning stories you can tell with them, but I'm not sure I'd call them 'liberal' as a character. Decent, consistently left-leaning heroes I've heard good cases for are Spider-Man and The Flash. They weren't just 'born better', nor do they just use their superpowers and call that the end of it; they're both fairly intelligent, rational and scientific, and tend to look for solutions to things other than pure force (although in the hands of some writers, The Flash especially can get goddamn brutal). They aren't quite fighting capitalism or anything like that, but I can never really picture them as 'conservative superheroes'. It all totally depends on the writer and the story, though.
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Feb 8, 2019 14:17
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Tiggum posted:Aren't most super heroes conservative by their nature? They're generally on the side of the police or are even government sanctioned law enforcement agents themselves; they often very nationalistic (or at least patriotic); they tend to go after lower-class criminals such as burglars, drug dealers and and murderers (because Superman vs. the embezzler doesn't exactly scream excitement); they tend to support the status quo (eg. they generally seem to think that super powers you're born with are fine but if you try to give yourself powers later in life that's evil); they're often rich (or have powers that allow them to ignore their lack of money). I'm sure there are counter-examples, but as a genre it seems pretty right-leaning to me. 
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Feb 8, 2019 14:35
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Some Golden Age Superman comics actually portrayed him as a hero of labor, and he did in fact go after bankers and predatory capitalists. The problem is that most people going into comics are young guys that never grew out of the power fantasies they had as kids, and so decided they wanted to write them as a living. This isn't a universal, obviously, but it's widespread enough that even comics that start out trying to subvert some inherent authoritarian themes lose all subtlety or shades of grey when passed to another writer. Just look at how half the people who have written for The Punisher don't understand the point of the Punisher.
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Feb 8, 2019 14:36
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I read an old "The Phantom" comic where the Phantom moved to the city to live with the humans. He got a job at a construction company but he was working too fast which made the union guys look bad so they attacked him and he beats them up. Explaining that "we are paid to work" Then at the end of the day it's time to get paid and he's upset that he's only getting half the money he was promised. The boss then explains about thing like insurance and union dues etc.
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Feb 8, 2019 14:42
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Poor Miserable Gurgi posted:Some Golden Age Superman comics actually portrayed him as a hero of labor, and he did in fact go after bankers and predatory capitalists. The problem is that most people going into comics are young guys that never grew out of the power fantasies they had as kids, and so decided they wanted to write them as a living. This isn't a universal, obviously, but it's widespread enough that even comics that start out trying to subvert some inherent authoritarian themes lose all subtlety or shades of grey when passed to another writer. Just look at how half the people who have written for The Punisher don't understand the point of the Punisher. The very first Superman comics basically had him as a personification of the fantasy of taking down all the people that cause you trouble in life. There was an entire issue about him becoming really upset at dangerous driving and going on a rampage against drunk drivers, auto manufacturers who made bad cars to save money, and car salesmen who intentionally sold lemons. It was basically “God, I wish I could just beat up my landlord and make him fix everything!” given a strongman’s outfit and invulnerability.
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Feb 8, 2019 14:43
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 Yeah, Captain America from the late sixties up through the mid? late? nineties was quite progressive as superheroes go — his characterization was (to make a long story extremely short) another 9/11 victim, unfortunately.
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Feb 8, 2019 14:45
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chitoryu12 posted:The very first Superman comics basically had him as a personification of the fantasy of taking down all the people that cause you trouble in life. There was an entire issue about him becoming really upset at dangerous driving and going on a rampage against drunk drivers, auto manufacturers who made bad cars to save money, and car salesmen who intentionally sold lemons. It was basically “God, I wish I could just beat up my landlord and make him fix everything!” given a strongman’s outfit and invulnerability. So... Everett True?
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Feb 8, 2019 14:48
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chitoryu12 posted:The very first Superman comics basically had him as a personification of the fantasy of taking down all the people that cause you trouble in life. There was an entire issue about him becoming really upset at dangerous driving and going on a rampage against drunk drivers, auto manufacturers who made bad cars to save money, and car salesmen who intentionally sold lemons. It was basically “God, I wish I could just beat up my landlord and make him fix everything!” given a strongman’s outfit and invulnerability. That's really the core of comic books and one of the reasons they're popular; a lot of poo poo you just can't control happens in life and there are not only people doing illegal things but perfectly legal things that are still lovely to do. I don't think there's a single person who hasn't fantasized about punching somebody that ripped us off right in the drat face but we don't do it. Superheros end up being extrajudicial and above the law so they do get to go beat the poo poo out of the crooked CEO whose deliberately negligent policies hurt people. They're zero calorie escapism and that's fine.
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Feb 8, 2019 14:48
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Katt posted:I read an old "The Phantom" comic where the Phantom moved to the city to live with the humans. He got a job at a construction company but he was working too fast which made the union guys look bad so they attacked him and he beats them up. Explaining that "we are paid to work" *For the Ghost Who Walks.
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Feb 8, 2019 15:05
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Tiggum posted:Did you get the name wrong or is there some Phantom other than Kit Walker*? Because that doesn't sound like the Phantom I know - either the early comics or the more recent ones. This one. 
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Feb 8, 2019 15:09
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https://twitter.com/LalaTraceyLady/status/1093599177186000896
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Feb 8, 2019 15:10
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In The Dark Knight Rises, a woman of colour convinces the political establishment to install a new environmentally friendly power supply that is secretly a nuke to blow up Gotham City. Meanwhile, the classic villains foment a revolution of the poor to overthrow the police and seize the financial industry, leaving the streets a lawless wasteland. It's up to one billionaire and his faithful black servant to put things right. It's always been my go-to of right-wing superhero stories because, god drat.
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Feb 8, 2019 15:13
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Katt posted:This one. 
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Feb 8, 2019 15:19
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Tenebrais posted:In The Dark Knight Rises, a woman of colour convinces the political establishment to install a new environmentally friendly power supply that is secretly a nuke to blow up Gotham City. Meanwhile, the classic villains foment a revolution of the poor to overthrow the police and seize the financial industry, leaving the streets a lawless wasteland. It's up to one billionaire and his faithful black servant to put things right. Also the villains claim to be an uprising of the powerless whose goal is a freer society, but really they're an extremely well-trained and highly-organized paramilitary conspiracy and even if they get everything they claim to want their goal is to just set off the nuke anyway because they think society is too corrupt to be reformed. It's basically all the right-wing fears about antifa but like five years early.
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Feb 8, 2019 15:26
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vyelkin posted:Also the villains claim to be an uprising of the powerless whose goal is a freer society, but really they're an extremely well-trained and highly-organized paramilitary conspiracy and even if they get everything they claim to want their goal is to just set off the nuke anyway because they think society is too corrupt to be reformed. It's basically all the right-wing fears about antifa but like five years early. It's Occupy Wall Street.
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Feb 8, 2019 15:26
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The important thing to remember about comics is that all long running comics are essentially fanfiction
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Feb 8, 2019 15:30
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Don't forget the army of cops showing up triumphantly stop the rabble!
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Feb 8, 2019 15:33
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felch me daddy jr. posted:It's Occupy Wall Street. Yea, catwoman's speech cements that. She's still not wrong though!
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Feb 8, 2019 15:34
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Comics are politcally all over the place in often amusing ways. There was a whole arc on Captain America involving Steve Rogers losing the title to a populist, nativist anti-immigrant nationalist replacement who was much more violent (and secretly being backed by nazis). So yeah, prescience. I remember another series, called Morituri, about artificial heroes created to fight an alien invasion. Except they discover that the Earth capitalistic elites are fine with the invasion (the aliens mostly raid now and then, and don't want to wipe out mankind because they are basically parasites) and getting high on the hog on all the military expenditures and lack of oversight thanks to having a big menace from the sky. And then there's Frank Miller, who is just a freaky, confused power-worshipper in several directions, but nearly all of them brush against some Great Man theory hogwash. He'd cheer for neoStalin is he just came back wearing a bat outfit and dunking on the stupid bovine masses. My first real encounter with politics in comics was a Batman one-shot in which he finds a group of kids stealing sattelite TV dishes and decides to follow them instead of busting them. Turns out they are being leaned on by an actual criminal gang, most come from broken homes and/or have neglected emotional and health issues, and their school is in shambles. He visits it as Bruce Wayne, talks to the guy in charge to learn what the real problems are. as Batman, he shuts down the gang, and as a billionaire he starts a program to help the school and offer scholarships to the kids that improve. I remember it feeling weird because it was the first time I read a comic where the solution wasn't punching the villain or tricking him into exploding himself with TOO MUCH POWAH. Also a bit of a sad shock because I was 9 bck then and that was how i discovered that hey, poor people exist in the US too, like in Brazil. And it had an ambiguous ending to boot, with Wayne thinking that even all he's done may not be enough, but if even one kid makes it, it'll be something.
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Feb 8, 2019 15:37
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Hey! 🎺 We are Number 1⃣ Hey! 🎺 We are Number 1⃣ Now listen 👂👂 closely Here's a little 👌 lesson ✒ in trickery 😈 This is going ⬇ down ⬇ in ✏ history 📚 If you wanna be a 😎 Villain 😎 Number 1⃣ You have to chase a 👮 superhero 👮 on the run 🏃 Just follow my 🙋 moves, and 🕵 sneak 🕵 around Be careful 🚫 not 🚫 to make a sound 🔇 Shh 🌲💥 🔉No, 🚫 don't 🙅 touch that! 🔊 We're Number 1⃣ Hey! 🎺 We're Number 1⃣ Ha 😈 ha 😈 ha 😈 Now 🔭 look 🔭 at this net 🏀, that I just 🔍 found 🔎 When I say 💬 go ➡, be ready to throw ➡ 💬 Go! ➡ 💥 💫 Throw 👐 it on him, 🚫 not 🚫 me! Uh 🤔, let's try something else 💡 Now watch 👀 and learn 📚 , here's the deal He'll slip 😨 and 😨 slide on this 🍌 banana 🍌 peel 🍌 Ha 😂 ha 😂 ha 😂, gasp 😮 ! what are you doing 😬😤!? 🎺ba🎷ba🎺biddly🎷ba🎺ba🎷ba🎺ba, ba🎷ba🎺ba🎷ba🎺ba🎷ba🎺ba We're Number 1⃣ Hey! 🎆 🎺ba🎷ba🎺biddly🎷ba🎺ba🎷ba🎺ba, ba🎷ba🎺ba🎷ba🎺ba🎷ba🎺ba We're Number 1⃣ 🎺ba🎷ba🎺biddly🎷ba🎺ba🎷ba🎺ba, ba🎷ba🎺ba🎷ba🎺ba🎷ba🎺ba We're Number 1⃣ Hey!🎇 🎺ba🎷ba🎺biddly🎷ba🎺ba🎷ba🎺ba, ba🎷ba🎺ba🎷ba🎺ba🎷ba🎺ba We're Number 1⃣ Hey! ✨ Hey!✨
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Feb 8, 2019 15:40
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Tiggum posted:Well that makes no sense, because in the very first Phantom strips he's well aware of the the modern, industrialised world outside the deep woods. Also the Phantom is just a normal dude in a costume. He isn't a mutant and doesn't have super powers or anything. Are you getting things mixed up with another story Katt?
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Feb 8, 2019 15:40
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Tiggum posted:Well that makes no sense, because in the very first Phantom strips he's well aware of the the modern, industrialised world outside the deep woods. The strip ended with him returning to the forest and proclaiming that life in the forest was better. The scene had a bunch of animals sitting around looking all serene and crap (predators and pray mixed of course) In the same issue he tells the story of his great great grandfather who was also the phantom in the 18th century or something like that and he helped some guy who was in love with a girl build a clockwork robot suit out of wood and metal. I think the guy died in the end using his clockwork robot suit to help someone. Mak0rz posted:Also the Phantom is just a normal dude in a costume. He isn't a mutant and doesn't have super powers or anything. Are you getting things mixed up with another story Katt? I never said he had super powers.
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Feb 8, 2019 15:42
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I used to love Captain America growing up in the 80's - 90's. When they made him a nazi it sucked. The worst part of it was Marvels response was "Shut up and stop complaining about it and read the whole storyline" which basically was all about pandering to the extreme right. Marvel can get hosed as far as the comics go for me now.
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Feb 8, 2019 15:44
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Katt posted:I never said he had super powers. Whoops I misunderstood what you meant by "live with the humans." Now I realize it's because he's a Tarzan type that prefers the company of wildlife or whatever.
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Feb 8, 2019 15:49
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It’s okay Kirk. There’s always a next time. And your movie was great!
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Feb 8, 2019 15:52
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Dr Christmas posted:Don't forget the army of cops showing up triumphantly stop the rabble! Good lord, that scene was dumb schlock. Especially because Nolan knew that having cops actually having a shootout with the unwashed rabble, using cover and such, would not be cinematic enough (or worse, look like a civilian massacre), so he just had the two sides charge into each other like it was loving Braveheart. Having an actual supervillain leading the howling revolutionary court was another bit of reactionary fluff worthy a chef's kiss. Do we know anything about why that movie came out the way it did? I mean, Batman has always had shades of near-Randian "ubermensch saving the dumb masses, but BECAUSE HE WANTS TO, NOT BECAUSE THEY DESERVE IT, it's just his thing ok", but even in Dark Knight he as least has the boats not blow each other up to affirm that hey, maybe people are cool and deserve better. Well, except for the pointless "Sure, let's pin this on Batman so he can bear our sins" twist at the end. Then one movie later it goes all "Blaargh, all we deserve is the lie concocted by our betters, any challenge to the system is terror, I tell you, terror!" Did Nolan just not care enough at that point and just went with whichever script felt more grandiose, or was it just his inner Zack Snyder stretching out?
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Feb 8, 2019 15:52
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I like to over-analyze comic book stories into the ground, wring out any fun that might be found, and put a bunch of my own 'meaning' to them as well. just a fun thing I do.
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Feb 8, 2019 15:59
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Mak0rz posted:Whoops I misunderstood what you meant by "live with the humans." Now I realize it's because he's a Tarzan type that prefers the company of wildlife or whatever. enigmahfc posted:I like to over-analyze comic book stories into the ground, wring out any fun that might be found, and put a bunch of my own 'meaning' to them as well.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:05
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i was sad when i found out that in context cap was dosed with super drugs that made him get woke about american imperialism for a little while
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Feb 8, 2019 16:30
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I had this old VHS of assorted Cartoons and one of them was a WWII-era Superman short. I forget the name, but every night at Midnight, Superman flew to Japan and just hosed poo poo up - bridges, battleships, basic infrastructure - then he'd come home and be the hero all day. It was pretty cool when I was 7 but it's pretty jarring now. Even the Japanese were shown in their "bucktooth yellowskin" hyper racist characterization.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:34
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robotsinmyhead posted:I had this old VHS of assorted Cartoons and one of them was a WWII-era Superman short. I forget the name, but every night at Midnight, Superman flew to Japan and just hosed poo poo up - bridges, battleships, basic infrastructure - then he'd come home and be the hero all day. 
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Feb 8, 2019 16:41
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Sephyr posted:Good lord, that scene was dumb schlock. Especially because Nolan knew that having cops actually having a shootout with the unwashed rabble, using cover and such, would not be cinematic enough (or worse, look like a civilian massacre), so he just had the two sides charge into each other like it was loving Braveheart. David S. Goyer seems to be the main culprit, as he's been getting more right wing with his scripts. His writing for Man of Steel and Batman v Superman took all that Randian poo poo even further. Nolan just seems happy as long as he can jack off to cops/the military.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:43
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Superman originally went after slumlords and corrupt floor managers. The Green Arrow did something similar in the first season of the CW show.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:46
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superman would only be interesting in a red son movie
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Feb 8, 2019 16:47
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sneakyfrog posted:superman would only be interesting in a red son movie Red Son Batman is best Batman
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Feb 8, 2019 16:50
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