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TheGreatEvilKing posted:While you're right about Susan, I don't remember Peter getting the interests of an adult man either. None of the Pevensies interests are mentioned except Susan's, which my argument has always been that it's her turning to vanity and pursuits of the flesh rather than believing in the Jesus lion, and that's why she isn't raptured Not necessarily loving but definitely turning away from spiritual progress Also the world, presumably, ends in The Final Battle, so if she isn't in Narnia with the chosen believers, she's fuckin non-existent Edit I googled it apparently it's just Narnia that ends and is reborn as Aslans Country, the real world still exists but all the English characters died there except Susan This is actually more hosed up imo as nothing implies that there's any way from the real world to Heaven 2.0 and if the one character we know is left behind is the one who doesn't believe in the lion, then that would imply that our world is hell, being the absence of God, this gets worse the harder I think about it BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 9, 2019 06:27
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Lewis said that she could get back to Narnia if she stopped denying it.
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Feb 9, 2019 06:41
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its a really basic christian allegory and you're way overthinking it. she didnt come back to narnia because she consciously chose, as a rational being gifted with free will, not to go back to narnia. if she chooses to accept narnia - which she knows on some level is real - she can go back to narnia. Antivehicular posted:Even if it's not an intentional choice by Lewis, it's very telling that the descent into materialism/loss of spiritual self is signified by Susan, as an older adolescent girl, developing the interests of an adult woman. It's an extremely common sexist attitude, in both fiction and real life, to treat feminine material interests as inherently more shallow, crassly "worldly," and bankrupt of deeper value than equivalent masculine interests. (Said feminine material interests are pushed onto women by the same society, and women who don't take interest in them chastised just as badly, but that's a whole different discussion.) Adolescent male characters in male-written/targeted genre fiction are allowed to be infatuated with girls and have gender-stereotypical interests without it implying anything about their overall spiritual character, but similar female characters who exhibit any gender-stereotypical interests or take interest in boys beyond a single token love interest are practically always considered to be dumb, silly, and frivolous. It's particularly galling in Narnia because, as mentioned, she ends up loving locked out of Heaven for it. it doesnt matter whether she rejects narnia because she likes lipstick or racehorses or guns or resident evil 2, out now for the playstation 4 and xbox one. what matters is that she oriented herself towards the worldly rather than the spiritual, and (more importantly) that she rejected narnia. neither racehorses nor lipstick are inherently more worldly. choosing either over god removes you from his presence. but that's not really the point; the lipstick is only the outer sign of the inner movement (i.e., away from Narnia-God). cannot believe you've got me stanning for c. s. lewis, of all people, an author whom i do not and have never liked. y'all need to read something besides twitter. chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 9, 2019 06:53
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chernobyl kinsman posted:its a really basic christian allegory and you're way overthinking it. she didnt come back to narnia because she consciously chose, as a rational being gifted with free will, not to go back to narnia. if she chooses to accept narnia - which she knows on some level is real - she can go back to narnia. I guess you don't, like, get it, but Lewis choice of which character failing to enter heaven is part of thousands of years of oppression of women and support of misogyny by the Christian church. Lilith leaves Adam because she has control over her sexuality, Eve causes orginal sin, etc.. Lewis demonification of Susan is just another part and parcel of christianities war on women. It's not a coincidence that it's lipstick and pantyhose and not racehorses.
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Feb 9, 2019 07:04
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noted Christian figure Lilith e: "the Christian church"
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Feb 9, 2019 07:05
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It's true, apostasy makes her a demon, just like how Lewis himself spent the '20s as a demon after rejecting Christianity as a teenager.
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Feb 9, 2019 07:29
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Lewis himself spent the '20s as a demon after rejecting Christianity as a teenager. please don't spoil my Inklings Real Person Fanfiction
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Feb 9, 2019 07:34
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chernobyl kinsman posted:its a really basic christian allegory and you're way overthinking it. she didnt come back to narnia because she consciously chose, as a rational being gifted with free will, not to go back to narnia. if she chooses to accept narnia - which she knows on some level is real - she can go back to narnia. Can I start ranting about the Screwtape Letters as a recovering evangelical next?
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Feb 9, 2019 07:35
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Because its really bad
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Feb 9, 2019 07:36
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you can do whatever you want; i haven't read it and i'm not going to. i will say that if you're interpreting anglican theology through an evangelical lens you're probably not going to end up with a reading that's very fair to the text
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Feb 9, 2019 07:37
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That is probably correct and I should probably just shell out for therapy but god drat do I hate that book.
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Feb 9, 2019 08:05
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alternatively you could convert to islam and thus escape both your heretical upbringing and the morass of apostasy into which you've now fallen
chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 9, 2019 08:06
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I don't think my family have been Anglican properly for at least 500 years that's a lot of apostasy hope purgatory is heated
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Feb 9, 2019 08:19
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oh wait purgatory is probably reserved for catholics WELP
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Feb 9, 2019 08:20
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Bilirubin posted:Because its really bad I remember enjoying the screwtape letters when I read them way back, but I'd love to hear some thoughtful, genuine criticism of them, if that's what you've got in mind.
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Feb 9, 2019 10:15
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:By the way, since Kingkiller discussion has basically been exhausted, some time ago Hieronymus Alloy gently prodded me to start my own thread for reviews instead of blessing the scifi/fantasy general thread with them. So I'm preparing to start a new general genre trashing discussion, where can freely vomit on Butcherwork and Sanderspergson and whatever, and also discuss good books maybe.
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Feb 9, 2019 13:01
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In retrospect, C S Lewis could've saved himself a lot of trouble if he had made it Peter instead of Susan, and given the reasons as turning away from Narnia to focus on, say, his new internship at some stuffy English bank.
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Feb 9, 2019 16:06
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offering my services as a woke consultant to authors, helping them craft narratives in a way least likely to get people mad at them 50 years down the line
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Feb 9, 2019 17:41
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How do I write a compelling plot where all the characters are inclusive, none are villains, and nothing bad happens to anyone? I’ll give you fifty bucks
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Feb 9, 2019 17:54
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Imagine thinking you need to have a villain in your story.
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Feb 9, 2019 17:57
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chernobyl kinsman posted:offering my services as a woke consultant to authors, helping them craft narratives in a way least likely to get people mad at them 50 years down the line how would you fix WMF?
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Feb 9, 2019 17:59
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Crimpolioni posted:I remember enjoying the screwtape letters when I read them way back, but I'd love to hear some thoughtful, genuine criticism of them, if that's what you've got in mind. "Thoughtful and genuine" *checks my AV again* Seriously though that would probably involve reading it again and life's just too short. Even worse though is "Pilgrim's Progress"
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Feb 9, 2019 17:59
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poisonpill posted:How do I write a compelling plot where all the characters are inclusive, none are villains, and nothing bad happens to anyone? I’ll give you fifty bucks Tell the story of an anonymous, nondescript person reading The Third Policeman in an armchair with two dogs. I'll PM you my paypal deets.
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Feb 9, 2019 18:07
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poisonpill posted:How do I write a compelling plot where all the characters are inclusive, none are villains, and nothing bad happens to anyone? I’ll give you fifty bucks Henry Green
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Feb 9, 2019 18:25
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Henry Green He said "compelling plot."
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Feb 9, 2019 18:40
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Lol
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Feb 9, 2019 18:55
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:He said "compelling plot." His works have compelling plots.
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Feb 9, 2019 19:17
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Mrenda posted:Imagine thinking you need to have a villain in your story. doesn't have to be a person, the villain in "the grapes of wrath" was capitalism for instance
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Feb 9, 2019 19:29
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Tim Burns Effect posted:doesn't have to be a person, the villain in "the grapes of wrath" was capitalism for instance And the hero was the friendships we made along the way? I'm all in favour of twisting words to fit your writing, but not when you're twisting beyond meaning what other people have written.
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Feb 9, 2019 19:37
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Thanos has been defeated... but at great cost. And now changed team of heroes must confront the most diabolical villain of all in Avengers 5: The Invisible Hand.
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Feb 9, 2019 19:41
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:Thanos has been defeated... but at great cost. And now changed team of heroes must confront the most diabolical villain of all in Avengers 5: The Invisible Hand. You’re just describing Black Panther from the real protagonist’s perspective Genre is...art?
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Feb 9, 2019 19:49
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poisonpill posted:How do I write a compelling plot where all the characters are inclusive, none are villains, and nothing bad happens to anyone? I’ll give you fifty bucks Paradiso by Dante Alighieri Pay me bitch
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Feb 9, 2019 20:33
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If a "plot" is defined as a protagonist conflicting with an antagonistic force, then no, there is no fictional work with a plot that doesn't have a protagonist conflicting with an antagonist.
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Feb 9, 2019 20:36
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Hieronymous please ban poison pill if he doesn't give me 50 dollars since it was technically a toxx God bless
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Feb 9, 2019 20:37
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You get one dollar for each year Buzzfeed doesn’t declare me “problematic”
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Feb 9, 2019 20:48
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...and that comes to *checks buzzfeed* zero dollars
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Feb 9, 2019 20:54
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Pay me bitch
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Feb 9, 2019 20:59
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Paradiso by Dante Alighieri not inclusive; all the characters are Christians.
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Feb 9, 2019 21:33
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pospysyl posted:If a "plot" is defined as a protagonist conflicting with an antagonistic force, then no, there is no fictional work with a plot that doesn't have a protagonist conflicting with an antagonist. what is the conflcit in the divine comedy or the book of the duchess or the house of fame or pearl chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 9, 2019 21:34
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What is the antagonistic force in Caligula: Divine Carnage?
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Feb 9, 2019 21:39
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