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Arist posted:Please, I am begging you guys. while you were playing devil's advocate i answered this like three hours ago Expect My Mom posted:Being upset with an ending is fine and natural, but it's important to unpack why you feel that way. What did you want out of the story? What did you get? What did the story give you? Why did the author make the story give that to you? meanwhile you have given zero of your own thoughts about the ending, saying you Don't Know what you feel about it so please re-read Part 6 and come back and tell us what you think Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 9, 2019 21:22
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It is perfectly fine to be disappointed with an ending. It is also perfectly fine to feel like such an ending does not invalidate everything that came before it.
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Feb 9, 2019 21:24
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Expect My Mom posted:while you were playing devil's advocate i answered this like three hours ago Ehh it's a little wishy-washy and non-specific about this ending in particular. Also you're wrong, I did: Arist posted:I like the stuff you guys are getting out of the ending. My real main issue with it, I guess, is that the stuff it wants to communicate is incredibly large and dense and it has almost no time to express it, so we're forced to read a lot out of very, very little. I'm not saying that makes that stuff invalid, it's just kind of jarring.
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Feb 9, 2019 21:24
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Mine's an open-ended response, but I like it that way I think. I just really value articulation over why I didn't like a bit of fiction while recognizing what it was trying to do and what the intention was behind it. I feel like this way I rarely walk away just hating something I spent a lot of time watching or reading, but I can kinda meet in the middle. And yeah you're totally not wrong, Part 6 slams on the breaks while going 200 miles an hour, but I kinda like that it's this big conceptual abstract even that just ends suddenly. Like it feels like the ending to a David Lynch movie where it's suddenly over and it doesn't quite feel like it should be over, but now I have to do the homework to process my feelings. and i like that homework! some prob dont tho
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Feb 9, 2019 21:29
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I just like how Araki had the balls to do such a thing. He's never been shy about killing off characters, so it only feels fitting that the finale is Kill All The Characters.
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Feb 9, 2019 21:31
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A world was created where Joestars can live free of DIO's bullshit. It's a happy ending for the cast, better than what they could have hoped for in the original world. I suppose from the reader's perspective it can be somewhat disappointing that they aren't exactly the same people anymore, but the fact that they aren't the same is what allows the characters themselves to be at peace, which seemed to be the whole point of Araki "retiring" them. At least at the time. I feel like it's as simple as that. I don't want to imply anyone's selfish for wanting a different kind of ending, but it seems to me that Araki wrote that ending for his characters, not necessarily his readers, and if so I wouldn't disagree with that decision.
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Feb 9, 2019 21:34
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Is the new world actually free of DIO’s bullshit though or just Pucci’s bullshit?
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Feb 9, 2019 21:35
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legit at no point have i said it's Bad and Wrong for someone to feel the way they do about the ending, just that i personally view it as being a mixed bag in regards to how i feel about it and generally try to explain why since i know multiple people i've had the same conversation with who seemed a bit down on it overall like i genuinely apologize if things got weird about it but i was kind of operating under the assumption that we were all well aware that having different opinions is absolutely fine
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Feb 9, 2019 21:36
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Araki is honestly on the same level as Oda or Inoue. people who despite how grueling and uncaring the manga industry is, always manage to make it seem like their art is always play and never work. Like it's absolutely work and all those creators take regular breaks, but they just seem like they're always enjoying it, and anything that happens is on their own terms. That definitely comes with being a figure for twenty years but Araki's ability to just say gently caress It, I'll Do It Live and experiment on the fly and change things seemingly without a plan is honestly inspirational.
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Feb 9, 2019 21:38
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:Is the new world actually free of DIO’s bullshit though or just Pucci’s bullshit? I guess that's a decent question Either way, it's an improvement
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Feb 9, 2019 21:41
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My main issue with the theme work of parts 5 and 6 are that their main ideas are largely expressed through villain monologues explicitly about the theme, or having a Stand power be the theme, or both, so you have, like, the characters ranting about fate and [GRAVITY] while C-Moon is manipulating gravity, it's really drat blunt. And Made In Heaven shows up in the end and all the ideas about knowing one's fate and stuff kinda ties in with Weather and Pucci's backstory but also it still kinda feels like it comes out of left field. Same with Diavolo predicting the future to control it and Rolling Stone's theme of fighting fate. Part 4 doesn't really do it that bluntly. Kira's great and perfectly rejects the ethos of Diamond is Unbreakable because he's just a leech. While Josuke and the Duwang Gang defeat troublemaking Stand users, they ultimately befriend just as many as they turn into immortal rocks or living books or whatever. Josuke is constantly making friends and interacting with his peers and making Morioh better. Kira is just a parasite feeding his desires who takes from Morioh and never gives anything back to the community in any form. He doesn't really even interact with his coworkers, and when he does he doesn't reveal anything about himself at all. It's really well-done.
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Feb 9, 2019 21:41
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Expect My Mom posted:Araki is honestly on the same level as Oda or Inoue. people who despite how grueling and uncaring the manga industry is, always manage to make it seem like their art is always play and never work. Like it's absolutely work and all those creators take regular breaks, but they just seem like they're always enjoying it, and anything that happens is on their own terms. I've legit never seen Araki once complain about his job. In all his photos and interviews he always seems so happy.
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Feb 9, 2019 21:41
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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:Is the new world actually free of DIO’s bullshit though or just Pucci’s bullshit? It's not that the new world is free of DIO's bullshit or Pucci's bullshit, it's the the new world is free of Fate. Jolyne, Emporio, et al are free to live in a world where no one is dictating their lives. That is to say, the new world is free of Araki's bullshit. (The sequel continues the Death of the Author metaphor by literally being about a bunch of losers fighting over the corpse of God. The hero triumphs by defying paternal authority through repeatedly giving God away.) (Jojo rules hard.) Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 9, 2019 21:52
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Game Theory: Why I Gave the Pope Jojo
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Feb 9, 2019 22:02
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Schwarzwald posted:That is to say, the new world is free of Araki's bullshit. That doesn’t sound like a Wonderful World at all 
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Feb 9, 2019 22:02
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one of the things that makes me sad the most is that we never really get to see many instances of previous characters messing around and just interacting with each other, which is weird when you consider that it's about a big, overarching family
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Feb 9, 2019 22:07
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I don't think it's really accurate to say anybody who was alive by the time of part 6 is freed of fate or had a happy ending of any kind, because they're all dead. The new joestars are different people with similar (but not identical) names, physical characteristics and life circumstances. This is in the same part in which FF explicitly pointed out that, were she to be reborn, she would be a different person from the one she is now, so she'd rather stay dead. I don't think this happening a couple dozen chapters before everyone dies and is reborn is a coincidence so I'm inclined to take it like a very bitter ending with some sweetness to it. The old cast died and a new cast was born. The happiness of the new cast is irrelevant to the fact that the old cast's lives ended in the blink of an eye. The Death of the Author metaphor is rad tho.
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Feb 9, 2019 22:17
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I think that it would be interesting to compare Stone Ocean's ending to the concept behind Persona 2's two discs. I'm not gonna write that up but I figure someone here might think about the similarities in those two and thing "oh that is kinda neat how they took a similar concept and executed it differently" and stuff. Personally, I don't think that the new world lacks fate and gravity, and if anything, I'd argue that the group getting together to go to Cape Canaveral is just proof that fate and gravity still exist, but that things can be different now, after one long series of fight after fight after fight, the heroes can finally rest peacefully and be reborn as new people without the heavy baggage from their previous lives, living once more as new people who are similar to but definitely are not their older counterparts.
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Feb 9, 2019 22:33
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On another subject, I've finally decided to start rereading Steel Ball Run, and the colored version is good.
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Feb 9, 2019 23:41
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 Also my wife wants to know if him saying "di molto" is actually a reference to Heathers calling things "so very" and I can't handle the thought of that. Robviously fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Feb 10, 2019 |
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Feb 10, 2019 00:38
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Some great part 6 ending discussion in this thread imo. It's making me super excited to see it animated eventually and hear everyone's reactions to it. On the topic of an obtuse Araki Heathers reference I really want this to be true but am having a hard time believing a man who names characters after his favourite bands and fashion designers would be that incredibly subtle.
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Feb 10, 2019 01:34
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Didn't Rohan ignore the the changes because he was drawing so hard? So its definitely the best of endings.
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Feb 10, 2019 02:59
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been thinking about Star Finger and all the times that jotaro could have instantly killed kira or pucci with Star Finger but chose not to out of good sportsmanship.
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Feb 10, 2019 05:48
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You know I was just thinking of something. Do we have a rough timeframe for when Jotaro and Jotaro's Wife got divorced? I have a sneaking suspicion that it was during Part 4 but am wondering if we ever got clarification.
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Feb 10, 2019 08:04
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Dragonwagon posted:To be fair, we don't really know what kind of guy alternate reality Anasui is. At the very least, he's not a murderer. if he isn't a complete fuckboy then he can't be alternate anasui, which is acceptable i guess
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Feb 10, 2019 08:15
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:It is perfectly fine to be disappointed with an ending. It is also perfectly fine to feel like such an ending does not invalidate everything that came before it. basically i just want some confirmation that the last 5 parts still happened in some form and i'd be totally happy with it mostly part 4
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Feb 10, 2019 08:16
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Yinlock posted:basically i just want some confirmation that the last 5 parts still happened in some form and i'd be totally happy with it Part 4 happened but Jotaro brought Irene and she punched Kira in the nuts.
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Feb 10, 2019 08:17
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Darko posted:Didn't Rohan ignore the the changes because he was drawing so hard? So its definitely the best of endings. I think he was still affected by the time acceleration, he was just so talented that he could still keep up with it. halleys comet posted:been thinking about Star Finger and all the times that jotaro could have instantly killed kira or pucci with Star Finger but chose not to out of good sportsmanship. That’s one thing I liked about the anime. Even if it was just once, it was nice to see that they he still had it.
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Feb 10, 2019 08:18
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halleys comet posted:been thinking about Star Finger and all the times that jotaro could have instantly killed kira or pucci with Star Finger but chose not to out of good sportsmanship. When could he have?
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Feb 10, 2019 08:52
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it's kind of shocking how littl my friend and i remember of part 5. i guess it's because of the horrible old translation? but there are total gaps in our memory of stands and their users. hasnt been so for parts 1-4. will report in on part 6 in 2022
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Feb 10, 2019 09:31
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Could Star Finger pierce Sheer Heart Attack?
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Feb 10, 2019 10:25
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no
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Feb 10, 2019 10:38
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 I love the internet. Especially the broken English.
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Feb 10, 2019 11:24
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 Diego 2nd. Existing one is like green hair, green top, green with beige-ish tint pants.  The D4C is a definite no from me. (D4C and Funny 2nd versions)  Johnny 2nd.  Prosciutto 1st. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Feb 10, 2019 |
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Feb 10, 2019 13:41
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Josuke Higashikata posted:
Where the gently caress is Pesci
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Feb 10, 2019 18:25
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CodfishCartographer posted:Where the gently caress is Pesci Rubberized neck technology has not advanced that far, not even in Japan
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Feb 10, 2019 21:09
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Archenteron posted:Rubberized neck technology has not advanced that far, not even in Japan then what was the point of one piece?!
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Feb 10, 2019 21:38
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Zeruel posted:then what was the point of one piece?! We still haven't met Dr Vengapunk
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Feb 10, 2019 21:50
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dr vengabus
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Feb 10, 2019 22:17
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Pesci's entire head would be made out of the material some anime dolls use for the boobs Also that Prosciutto is so good, I want him, he's so great,
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Feb 10, 2019 22:43
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