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TG Forums As An Industry: d6 Mignogna
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Feb 12, 2019 02:16
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| # ? May 25, 2024 22:09 |
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Terrible Opinions posted:Hence saying "for a good long time" rather than just leaving it at the refuse. 2014 was long after it was known that Zak was a serial harasser. For a long time the board had a policy of not moderating people for what they did off-board. The rationale was that there was just too much rumor and innuendo to keep track of, and there was no way to prove what was true and what was not. Please understand that I am not defending this policy, but explaining how things were. And, indeed, those days are over - it has become VERY clear that we can't operate like that any more. Zak would have been banned much sooner today. Edit to add: And, yes, we used to give game developers more leeway. The rationale was that in the early days of the board many thought it was open season on developers ("your game sucks and you should die") 24/7. In retrospect this was taken too far, and that is not how things work today. Cessna fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Feb 12, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 02:21
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PST posted:That's...not what happened. That's a real misrepresentation of what happened. I don't see how I'm lying when I'm making jokes about unwelcome opinions on Matt's current (at that time) personal integrity being shared around and aging worse in retrospect. To be fair though, there was a lot of awkward hand-wringing from other people who were uncomfortable believing the first accusations without stacks of evidence that was way more obnoxious.
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Feb 12, 2019 02:43
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Why did Olivia Hill get banned on RPG.net back when?
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Feb 12, 2019 03:41
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ravenkult posted:Why did Olivia Hill get banned on RPG.net back when? She says it was related to Zak, actually. https://twitter.com/machineiv/status/1095147081239392256
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Feb 12, 2019 03:46
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That's why I'm asking.
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Feb 12, 2019 03:48
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According to RPG.net Olivia Hill was banned for doxxing Onyx Path writer Matthew Dawkins this past summer. Check your poo poo Nuns.
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Feb 12, 2019 03:55
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As I recall, she got banned officially for “doxxing” somebody, but it was a pretty transparent fig leaf. I’m not gonna lie, I think RPGnet needs to be officially revisiting their decisions to ban Holden and Olivia, because they seem to have had a lot more to do with them being disruptive to the industry than it did with them being disruptive on RPGnet. It’s a bad look today. I’ve historically been pretty indifferent to claims that RPGnet needs better conflict of interest rules, because, um, I honestly can’t think of any. But I feel like things are reaching the point where the industry’s ongoing incestuousness is creating problems, and not because of things like “nobody lets me say mean things about White Wolf games.”
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Feb 12, 2019 03:57
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Read the whole loving thread. https://twitter.com/machineiv/status/1095145225440288769
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Feb 12, 2019 03:57
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Lost_Heretic posted:Olivia Hill was banned for doxxing Onyx Path writer Matthew Dawkins this past summer. I posted that because it looked like ravenkult was asking for it, I'm sorry it came off like a rebuttal or fact, but can you elaborate more on that?
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Feb 12, 2019 03:57
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Rand Brittain posted:I’m not gonna lie, I think RPGnet needs to be officially revisiting their decisions to ban Holden lol
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Feb 12, 2019 03:58
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Beast practically seems like the woke rapist manifesto. 'Oh, we're such tragic and pitiful but also cool and righteous, and all the other cool kids like us because we're part of the club and not like we prey on anyone important, the only people who'd ever oppose us are crazy horrible bigots who deserve what they get'. I guess the theme of the day is sexual predators who hide behind a progressive facade and being part of the cool kids and apparently only getting by because of the Geek Social Fallacies. There's been a shitload of those lately.
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Feb 12, 2019 03:59
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Revisiting Olivia's ban would really be a good idea for RPGnet right now. There's not nearly enough redress to the people that were hurt going around yet. e: I get the impression Olivia wouldn't actually want to return even if the ban was lifted, but it would still be a helpful gesture.
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Feb 12, 2019 03:59
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Ratoslov posted:The only lessons Beasts teach is that Beasts should be killed and the value of keeping tarps and quicklime in your car. I can't say this enough, SHOVELS people SHOVELS. Also a bag of potting soil. Your lawyer will thank you.
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Feb 12, 2019 04:06
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and an animal carcass to bury above the corpse and throw off sniffer dogs.
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Feb 12, 2019 04:09
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Nuns with Guns posted:I posted that because it looked like ravenkult was asking for it, I'm sorry it came off like a rebuttal or fact, but can you elaborate more on that?
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Feb 12, 2019 04:21
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Rand Brittain posted:As I recall, she got banned officially for “doxxing” somebody, but it was a pretty transparent fig leaf. I’m not gonna lie, I think RPGnet needs to be officially revisiting their decisions to ban Holden and Olivia, because they seem to have had a lot more to do with them being disruptive to the industry than it did with them being disruptive on RPGnet. It’s a bad look today. Wasn't Holden standing up for a dude who people were calling out, I feel like I remember there being some poo poo about him when the Matt stuff first surfaced
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Feb 12, 2019 04:43
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Wasn't Holden standing up for a dude who people were calling out, I feel like I remember there being some poo poo about him when the Matt stuff first surfaced Yeah, he's always stood by his Exalted co-developer John Mørke, who demanded women break up with their boyfriends in order to work on Exalted. Also, Holden wrote some weird stuff about Abyssal rape ghosts and rape possession. After being ostracized by the RPG community for bad behavior, he's begun call out other people for bad behavior and hopes no one notices his track record. But SomethingAwful remembers. Lost_Heretic fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Feb 12, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 04:48
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Lost_Heretic posted:who demanded women break up with their boyfriends in order to work on Exalted. Ek-loving-scuse me? That's a new wrinkle I hadn't encountered. Did anyone actually do that, despite how big a red flag it was? Are they okay?
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Feb 12, 2019 04:58
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Oh right the rape ghosts That's a sentence I just typed excuse me while I sob
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Feb 12, 2019 05:00
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MadScientistWorking posted:To make a long story short the supposed doxxing was Olivia posting a public email. There's that moderation.
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Feb 12, 2019 05:03
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Xiahou Dun posted:Ek-loving-scuse me? Here's an incomplete list of tweets by one writer. It happened to others though: https://twitter.com/search?q=%40rufflejax%20morke&src=typd Lost_Heretic fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Feb 12, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 05:12
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Lost_Heretic posted:Morke Abuse Comes to Light: https://imgur.com/r/KotakuInAction/tG91P e: like, the tweets from Jacqueline are pretty damning, but ideally you'd link to just those and not a bunch of stuff about him criticizing an alt-right movement
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Feb 12, 2019 05:13
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Elephant Parade posted:Not to doubt that Holden is a shithead, but I'm not going to trust an imgur album sourced from an alt-right subreddit Sorry, this was the first thing to come up in Google. I'll see if I can find other copies.
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Feb 12, 2019 05:15
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Rand Brittain posted:I’ve historically been pretty indifferent to claims that RPGnet needs better conflict of interest rules, because, um, I honestly can’t think of any. But I feel like things are reaching the point where the industry’s ongoing incestuousness is creating problems, and not because of things like “nobody lets me say mean things about White Wolf games.” Opaque moderation procedures wherein the users cannot know what is going on behind the scenes, combined with a decent handful of OPP luminaries and freelancers in moderator positions, while threads about OPP properties were being moderated in ways that stifled criticism, did not look good. Apparently RPG.net had procedures to ensure there was no conflict of interest, but there was literally no way to tell: from what I recall (this happened years ago) any claim about there being a conflict of interest was met with "there isn't one" if not snide mockery. There weren't any guarantees offered, just assertions there wasn't a problem. And, you know, when you come to the staff of a place with "so hey this looks like it might be a problem" and all you get in response is a kind of brusque "there isn't a problem", when there's no apparent safeties or checks, it doesn't inspire confidence. Terrible Opinions posted:Hence saying "for a good long time" rather than just leaving it at the refuse. 2014 was long after it was known that Zak was a serial harasser. "Was known" is a very nebulous concept in abuse situations. Often when you hear about some abuser in the news you can find people speaking up about it years before - but there was no critical mass of people getting the message out. A decent chunk of people often know that someone is an abuser, but this doesn't mean that everyone knows. With Zak specifically I felt people were dragging their feet about recognizing it for an overly long time, but I also think of Marion Zimmer Bradley, whose malfeasance was known for decades by people who had actual court transcripts as evidence - but it was only recently that it got any traction. Or whatshername, RequiresHate. That she was an abusive twit was known within select fandom communities - but it took until someone put in a major effort in collating the evidence and broadcasting it for that to really penetrate the wider Internet consciousness.
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Feb 12, 2019 05:37
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MadScientistWorking posted:To make a long story short the supposed doxxing was Olivia posting a public email. Well. If memory serves. It was only really discovered that it was a public address after she posted it. And posting a private e-mail chain as a gotcha to try and own someone without even going through the motions of trying to santize it was a profoundly lovely move, particularly of someone who has been a victim of that. And Olivia copped to that.
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Feb 12, 2019 05:41
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Nuns with Guns posted:I don't see how I'm lying when I'm making jokes about unwelcome opinions on Matt's current (at that time) personal integrity being shared around and aging worse in retrospect. To be fair though, there was a lot of awkward hand-wringing from other people who were uncomfortable believing the first accusations without stacks of evidence that was way more obnoxious. Do you guys feel that Matt's banning on rpg.net was better, or worse than how SA handled Aatrek? I think the parallels were pretty interesting given that the situations were so similar. What's really impressive is that, somehow, rpg.net was able to avoid a massive crusade to de-tumblrfy the forums and didn't need to implement a mass purge of anyone even vaguely dissatisfied with the fact that a convicted sex offender was allowed to moderate the forums. LatwPIAT posted:Opaque moderation procedures wherein the users cannot know what is going on behind the scenes That sounds familiar, but I can't place where...
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Feb 12, 2019 05:48
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You ever notice how in this sort of thing, the people speaking up and pushing back against abuse are expected to conform to the strictest standards of behavior or else suffer the full punishment available? And the actual abusers' behaviors are allowed to slide with some variation of "Well I'm not excusing it but" and then no actual consequences? Because you should notice that. It always happens.
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Feb 12, 2019 05:50
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Bedlamdan posted:Do you guys feel that Matt's banning on rpg.net was better, or worse than how SA handled Aatrek? Wait. Is your problem that rpg.net didn't root out all the pro-rape people or that SA kind of half rear end did try? Either way why are you sad that people who are pro sex-offender can't use a private internet forum? What?
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Feb 12, 2019 05:58
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Xiahou Dun posted:Wait. I'm saying that both rpg.net and SA had mods who were outed as sex offenders, but somehow rpg.net was able to, you know, get rid of theirs without Cessna or whoever deciding the problem was actually the SJWs and how people were too sensitive about rape. And that the people on rpg.net were able to criticize rpg.net for McFarland without being mass-banned. How the gently caress did you read that and assume 'oh, the problem was that they banned the rapists' jesus gently caress
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Feb 12, 2019 06:01
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Bedlamdan posted:I'm saying that both rpg.net and SA had mods who were outed as sex offenders, but somehow rpg.net was able to, you know, get rid of theirs without Cessna or whoever deciding the problem was actually the SJWs and how people were too sensitive about rape. I... What??? Just. ?????????????????????? None of this the poo poo you just said makes sense, dude. Edit : I'm legit perplexed by how this could be a sentence written by a person. It contradicts itself so many, many ways. You're like an idiot savant if they were a savant in idiocy. I dont' even know what to do. You're so dumb I'm going to drink wine and then go to bed. There's no point in talking to you. Your loving first sentence doesn't make sense and goes against your own premise. How are you a person. Xiahou Dun fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Feb 12, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 06:13
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I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand, but, okay, feel free to flounce the gently caress off.
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Feb 12, 2019 06:20
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Kurieg posted:Well. Ah, okay, so a mix of bad mistakes and apologies that was also a "convenient" reason to slip a ban in.
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Feb 12, 2019 06:21
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Bedlamdan posted:I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand, but, okay, feel free to flounce the gently caress off. "I'm saying that both rpg.net and SA had mods who were outed as sex offenders, but somehow rpg.net was able to, you know, get rid of theirs without Cessna or whoever deciding the problem was actually the SJWs and how people were too sensitive about rape." This as an actual sentence you wrote that makes no loving sense. If it wasn't 12:30 here I'd diagram how this makes no sense semantically. None of this poo poo is related what are you doing. None of this poo poo is factual, logical, related or even loving cogent. Why are you bringing it up? By the same logic I could just mention that I have a ferret. And I don't. And it would still work.
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Feb 12, 2019 06:29
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Rand Brittain posted:I think this has put the final nail in the Beast coffin. It won’t get a 2e or another book. Wishful thinking. There's still Dark Eras 2 and the Contagion Chronicle, books that were already in development and had chunks written in them with the development goal of including Beast crossover focus. Beast already used the second edition rules, but if CofD went through a hypothetical third edition, I wouldn't put it past Onyx Path to try to rehabilitate it conceptually. The Olivia Hill tweet thread posted:Later that day, he outed a social justice blogger's real name to Gamergaters. He wasn't banned. Is there more detail available on this? I already knew I didn't like Matthew Dawkins, but I had just thought it was because his sense of taste ran opposite mine.
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Feb 12, 2019 06:36
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Bedlamdan bad faith defends companies keeping on sex offenders by going "but Aatrek" every single time.
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Feb 12, 2019 06:37
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Xiahou Dun posted:"I'm saying that both rpg.net and SA had mods who were outed as sex offenders, but somehow rpg.net was able to, you know, get rid of theirs without Cessna or whoever deciding the problem was actually the SJWs and how people were too sensitive about rape." I thought by all the ???????? you decided to just gently caress off, my dude. You seemed pretty done. Are you drunk or high or having a meltdown? My dude, Lowtax's response to Aatrek was to basically mass-ban anyone who was upset at him over letting Aatrek be a mod, and then the lesson the dude took away from it was that "oh, the forums are just too much like tumblr." I was being a sarcastic motherfucker with the first sentence that seems to mystify you, because from the way it looks to me, rpg.net handled their situation with McFarland way more effectively than SA handled its own situation with Matt. Do you need me to break this down further? Can you do it without spamming question marks??????? Because it's pretty clear that people here are unhappy with how rpg.net handled the Matt McFarland fiasco, but nobody here ever really seemed to ever take any issue with how Lowtax handled Aatrek, so I'm really loving curious if someone can explain to stupid me how SA was able to handle their own sex offender mod in a way that kept everyone here happy, and how rpg.net might be able to apply those lessons. Thanks. Terrible Opinions posted:Bedlamdan bad faith defends companies keeping on sex offenders by going "but Aatrek" every single time. Which sex offenders are still mods at rpg.net, my friend? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 12, 2019 06:41
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Bedlamdan posted:Do you guys feel that Matt's banning on rpg.net was better, or worse than how SA handled Aatrek? I mean that's not what happened at all, also the minute it came out that he was a sex offender he was demodded and perma banned The weird shift right and everything getting lovely wasn't until way later that year
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Feb 12, 2019 06:42
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Bedlamdan posted:I thought by all the ???????? you decided to just gently caress off, my dude. You seemed pretty done. Are you drunk or high or having a meltdown? It wasn't though The worst it got was getting irritated at people who wanted background checks on mods You're thinking of the shmorky thing, where he banned people who called him an unsafe father for letting shmorky be around his kids or a pedophile
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Feb 12, 2019 06:44
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Bedlamdan posted:I thought by all the ???????? you decided to just gently caress off, my dude. You seemed pretty done. Are you drunk or high or having a meltdown? HEY EVERYBODY IM GONNA MAKE THIS ABOUT AATREK FOR SOME REASON
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Feb 12, 2019 06:44
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