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moths posted:I checked Google+ for reactions and Venger Satan had a brain-wormsy "Zak is bad but so is Socialism" rant. Never change, G+.
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Feb 12, 2019 15:11
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There's been a lot of constructive advice on how to move forward, make amends, and apologize for enabling or defending Zak, and I think that's kind of nice and really under-discussed as far as supporting the victims of years-long harassment campaigns goes.
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Feb 12, 2019 15:20
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Nuns with Guns posted:There's been a lot of constructive advice on how to move forward, make amends, and apologize for enabling or defending Zak, and I think that's kind of nice and really under-discussed as far as supporting the victims of years-long harassment campaigns goes. One of the big things, IMO, is that people should look through the works of his targets, buy ones that speak to them, and tell other people why they're cool. People like Anna Krieder, Olivia Hill and Filamena Young had their ability to promote their work greatly curtailed. So, for example, take a look at Anna's Thou Art But a Warrior, The Watch, and The Starlit Kingdom, and Olivia and Filamena have Maschine Zeit, a cool sci-fi ghost story game, and also have a playtest you can sign up to participate in for iHunt, an RPG about the monstrous gig economy and killing vampires that oyu can sign .
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Feb 12, 2019 15:29
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Nuns with Guns posted:There's been a lot of constructive advice on how to move forward, make amends, and apologize for enabling or defending Zak, and I think that's kind of nice and really under-discussed as far as supporting the victims of years-long harassment campaigns goes. Agreed, yes.
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Feb 12, 2019 15:51
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moths posted:I checked Google+ for reactions and Venger Satan had a brain-wormsy "Zak is bad but so is Socialism" rant. Never change, G+. Thank God G+ is going away
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Feb 12, 2019 16:11
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Flavivirus posted:One of the big things, IMO, is that people should look through the works of his targets, buy ones that speak to them, and tell other people why they're cool. People like Anna Krieder, Olivia Hill and Filamena Young had their ability to promote their work greatly curtailed. So, for example, take a look at Anna's Thou Art But a Warrior, The Watch, and The Starlit Kingdom, and Olivia and Filamena have Maschine Zeit, a cool sci-fi ghost story game, and also have a playtest you can sign up to participate in for iHunt, an RPG about the monstrous gig economy and killing vampires that oyu can sign . If anyone has other titles to name drop (and preferably link), please do so. I am interested in this kind of action.
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Feb 12, 2019 16:20
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I know Mikan's game is free now, but is there an official place to download it from?
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Feb 12, 2019 16:31
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I'm gonna vouch for Olivia Hill's iHunt novels as briskly paced fun reads that feel like what I've always imagined World of Darkness to be, set against the backdrop of late-stage capitalism and economic precarity
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Feb 12, 2019 16:46
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Edit: Dumbassery removed.
TheDiceMustRoll fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 16:52
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:I've defended Zak on this forum....a lot. lol I saw this post when it was a ban me nice job.
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Feb 12, 2019 17:02
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:I've defended Zak on this forum....a lot. Get banned, i hope!
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Feb 12, 2019 17:04
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https://twitter.com/GauntletRPG/status/1095199472047529984 New user 'Sak Z' starts suddenly decrying the outrage. Although for real, good on them.
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Feb 12, 2019 17:07
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:I've defended Zak on this forum....a lot. Accept that you've been a lovely person who defended a shittier person. Apologize. Admit you were wrong. Stop being an idiot.
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Feb 12, 2019 17:15
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:I've defended Zak on this forum....a lot.
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Feb 12, 2019 17:20
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I used to hang out in a big OSR discord that had a lot of people in it who liked Zak's products. Zak himself popped up in it after the G+ shutdown was announced, and I immediately left. I wonder if he's been banned from there, too.
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Feb 12, 2019 17:48
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moths posted:I checked Google+ for reactions and Venger Satan had a brain-wormsy "Zak is bad but so is Socialism" rant. Never change, G+. That wasn't what Columbine was about was my point you fuckin dingus Jesus Christ
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Feb 12, 2019 17:52
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:I've defended Zak on this forum....a lot. I'm thankful people quoted you, because I have you on ignore and I've been avoiding the OSR thread because I don't feel safe posting there because of loving you, and the OP of that thread for defending you. Reflect deeply on this and how you should change your approach to gaming, the internet, and life.
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Feb 12, 2019 17:52
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:That wasn't what Columbine was about was my point you fuckin dingus Jesus Christ E: Oh! Yeah the story in Beast also didn't involve bullying. That's what I said. moths fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Feb 12, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 17:56
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moths posted:
It also didn't have anything to do with real or imagined slights and comparing basically any school shooting narrative to it, real or fictional, in 2019 is dumb as poo poo and a pet peeve of mine but also I'm done
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Feb 12, 2019 18:08
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So it looks like Onyx Path's story about why they fired Olivia Hill, according to Olivia and other sources I spoke to, is that they decided to fire Olivia several months before the Zak thing, and they just didn't tell her she was fired for some reason. The Zak thing was just the day they chose to make it public. In any other industry I would call this a ridiculous lie, but in tabletop RPGs it's almost the right level of dumb to be believable.
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Feb 12, 2019 18:16
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:It also didn't have anything to do with real or imagined slights and comparing basically any school shooting narrative to it, real or fictional, in 2019 is dumb as poo poo and a pet peeve of mine but also I'm done The only thing I compare Columbine to is UAC_DEAD.WAD.
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Feb 12, 2019 18:17
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It's only been what, 24 hours and the hot takes are flying on Twitter. There's a dude trying to make it about himself and implying that holding Magpie accountable is ''racism'' and it's a bad look.
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Feb 12, 2019 19:42
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In a more perfect world Mearls' active assistance of Zak's shittiness during 5E's runup would make the man a goddamn pariah who could never find work again But there'll be a vague "we didn't know" apology if anything and it'll fly because the lovely underbelly of the hobby is actively ignored because if you ignore something it doesn't actually exist, that's how we fix things no I'm not bitter at all
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Feb 12, 2019 20:01
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The actual industry giants - Mearls and anyone else connected to WotC, and likewise Paizo and people like Erik Mona - aren't going to say anything. They profited from him for years and ignored all warnings to ensure he had as much field to play in as they could offer. And they're gonna continue doing so. I truly doubt Mearls is gonna post poo poo. He'll continue to wait for this to all wash out.
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Feb 12, 2019 20:06
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:I've defended Zak on this forum....a lot. You could admit that was deeply wrong, admit you enabled an abuser in spite of everything, and apologize for a start. Or yeah just repost your banme. Alhireth-Hotep posted:I'm thankful people quoted you, because I have you on ignore and I've been avoiding the OSR thread because I don't feel safe posting there because of loving you, and the OP of that thread for defending you. Reflect deeply on this and how you should change your approach to gaming, the internet, and life. Do we seriously have Zak defenders and defenders of Zak defenders on this forum in this day and age? Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Feb 12, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 20:25
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ravenkult posted:It's only been what, 24 hours and the hot takes are flying on Twitter. I'd say it's a bit more nuanced, and his thread accurately points out the discrepancy in the response to Ken Hite's apology after repeatedly working with Zak (the internet loves it) and Mark Diaz-Truman's apology after siding with Zak and never actually working with him (the internet hates it). This is attributed to racism. Maybe it is. Frankly the Hite apology was alright, but he has a lot to apologize for in this and it's tough to say what's good enough. The fact that Diaz-Truman's original post was walking into a war between harassers and the harassed that he wasn't involved in, siding with the harasser and then acting judgemental as hell definitely irks people. There is a definite difference in how these apologies have been received, though, when Hite has likely done more to help Zak than Magpie ever could. https://mobile.twitter.com/drcaptainkobold/status/1095378655038058497
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Feb 12, 2019 20:28
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Ken Hite working with Zak was abominable and a much taller ladder for Zak to climb up on, and I don't agree with any aspect of Hite's American military apologism or right-wing view of global politics/history, but his post also expressed what he was doing going forward and conclusively disowned Zak. MTD's tweets were apologetic, sure, but also transparently done only because it was socially expected after years of quietly ignoring the damage he caused. He said he was considering ways to address it further, but until those materialze it's a lot less ground to build trust on than what Ken Hite provided.
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Feb 12, 2019 20:47
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EverettLO posted:I'd say it's a bit more nuanced, and his thread accurately points out the discrepancy in the response to Ken Hite's apology after repeatedly working with Zak (the internet loves it) and Mark Diaz-Truman's apology after siding with Zak and never actually working with him (the internet hates it). No, gently caress that. Diaz knew what he was doing the entire time. He named names and gave up people he worked with to Zak S for no goddamn reason other then to try and appear the "better" of whatever he thought the argument was, and he gleefully did it all under the company banner. He was warned copiously and loving just did it anyways. He is a grown-rear end man who made his decisions, and now he can live with the consequences of them. Does Hite and Mearls deserve far worse? loving of course they do! But that doesn't mean we just shrug and declare nothing can ever be done, better not push it ever! If that dude has a problem, he can take it up with Diaz for starting this particular fire in the first place. Not with the people finally demanding justice.
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Feb 12, 2019 20:47
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ProfessorCirno posted:He'll continue to wait for this to all wash out. He can certainly try, but people are going to hound him about his cowardice and culpability for a long time afterwards. Mearls isn't going to walk away from this 100% clean unless and until he officially disavows and apologizes for his actions. And maybe make a financial contribution to a good cause. He won't do this of course, because again he's a loving coward. But he can wait for as long as he likes, this poo poo isn't going away so easily.
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Feb 12, 2019 20:53
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Hite working with and legitimizing Zak is bad, real bad, but at least he didn't mount his high horse and lecture Zak's critics about how rude and uncouth and potty-mouthed they were and declare that their pointing out that Zak was an abusive creepy harasser was literally the same thing as the Two Minute Hate from 1984.
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Feb 12, 2019 21:00
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One of the key differences as well being that Diaz is getting called on his poo poo by some of the people who were directly warning him about what Zak S. was when he decided to wade in to that shitfest. I don't doubt that Hite had knowledge of Zak being lovely in some form, but as far as I'm aware he never jumped into any big social media fight for Zak and had people lay out the whole thing for him to ignore. There's a much clearer and obvious track record of Diaz being informed about Zak being poo poo and ignoring it than there is for Hite.
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Feb 12, 2019 21:03
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Slimnoid posted:He can certainly try, but people are going to hound him about his cowardice and culpability for a long time afterwards. Mearls isn't going to walk away from this 100% clean unless and until he officially disavows and apologizes for his actions. And maybe make a financial contribution to a good cause. He's not even replied to a tweet since saturday. He's taking the Ostrich approach rather than actually addressing the mess he made. But people are not going to forget.
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Feb 12, 2019 21:11
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Slimnoid posted:He can certainly try, but people are going to hound him about his cowardice and culpability for a long time afterwards. Mearls isn't going to walk away from this 100% clean unless and until he officially disavows and apologizes for his actions. And maybe make a financial contribution to a good cause. Largely speaking, Mearls will still come out with minimal damage since the spray of all of this isn't really gonna hit Wizards or Hasbro in any major manner at this point. It'll get acknowledged, maybe, with some token efforts to resolve it and then just keep chugging along trying to court people who have zero idea of who even Mike Mearls is, let alone Zak S.
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Feb 12, 2019 21:12
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EverettLO posted:This is attributed to racism. Maybe it is. Frankly the Hite apology was alright, but he has a lot to apologize for in this and it's tough to say what's good enough. The fact that Diaz-Truman's original post was walking into a war between harassers and the harassed that he wasn't involved in, siding with the harasser and then acting judgemental as hell definitely irks people. There is a definite difference in how these apologies have been received, though, when Hite has likely done more to help Zak than Magpie ever could.
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Feb 12, 2019 21:15
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it is an extremely light-skinned poc thing to do to retreat to identity when you suddenly find yourself outflanked by the left, signed a light skinned poc.
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Feb 12, 2019 21:26
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dwarf74 posted:I dunno, man. I had absolutely no idea that MDT was a PoC until this twitter post. And I am not saying that as a dumb 'oh gosh i don't even see color' whitewashing thing; I mean that I literally had no idea because I can't say I have ever seen either of them, or even pictures of either of them. Fair enough, but his whole opening vignette in the Two Minutes Hate post was about not being white. I personally think he's getting a more or less appropriate reaction considering how unnecessary, damaging and ill-advised his post was. I just think Hite appears to be getting off light. The real test will be Mearls.
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Feb 12, 2019 21:33
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EverettLO posted:Fair enough, but his whole opening vignette in the Two Minutes Hate post was about not being white. personally hite can't lose any more of my respect so there ain't much to say other than he's bad folks
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Feb 12, 2019 21:40
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There's some talk over on ENWorld about stripping Zak's ENnie away from him. And some awful people defending him, of course, and hand-wringing about how that might mar the 'integrity' of an 'award' about 'art,' but the mods are not as forgiving about that sort of thing as they were 5 years ago.
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Feb 12, 2019 21:49
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Ghost Leviathan posted:He can join Wil Wheaton in 'gathering his thoughts'. I heard something happened with Wheaton at some point but missed it. What happened there?
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Feb 12, 2019 21:52
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Edit: Removed whiny handwringing.
TheDiceMustRoll fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 21:57
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