Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

I think Russia already got to have their say.

Anyway, Hungary wants to exempt mothers of four or more children from income tax to promote family and population growth.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47192612

Great, right? Now the EE part: it's to avoid the need of dirty immigrants, of course. And also it's gonna be a huge tax scam because I can guarantee that suddenly all the high paying positions will be occupied by these women who'll never show up to the office.

# ? Feb 11, 2019 16:48

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# ? May 12, 2024 22:33

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

It'll be fun when some Muslim immigrant mother of six is going to want to benefit from this.

# ? Feb 11, 2019 18:16

Grape: Nov 16, 2017; Happily shilling for China!

I still find it funny that Hungary of all countries is one of the leading lights of "NO FERNERS IN EUROPE". The country based around a language whose closest relatives are from Siberia.

# ? Feb 11, 2019 22:07

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

Grape posted:

I still find it funny that Hungary of all countries is one of the leading lights of "NO FERNERS IN EUROPE". The country based around a language whose closest relatives are from Siberia.

All the more reason for them to preserve their unique language and culture, in their eyes.

# ? Feb 12, 2019 04:23

Grape: Nov 16, 2017; Happily shilling for China!

Grouchio posted:

All the more reason for them to preserve their unique language and culture, in their eyes.

We have crossed paths before on other worlds Grouchio.

# ? Feb 12, 2019 04:25

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Grape posted:

I still find it funny that Hungary of all countries is one of the leading lights of "NO FERNERS IN EUROPE". The country based around a language whose closest relatives are from Siberia.

Are the Estonians and Finnish the same way? Because they come from that same language root. You just don't hear about Estonian or Finnish nazis like you do Hungarian nazis.

Late last week the federal prosecutors in the 'did Russia help Trump become president' case, they made it clear that their investigation is currently heading down the road of Russia helped Trump get elected and Trump was supposed to lift sanctions once he was in office. The man responsible for this is Paul Manafort who was working with Konstantin Kilimnik according to the federal prosecutors. The sanctions are due to Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea and the conflict in Eastern Ukraine.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...m=.271e66e11e31

quote:

Politics Analysis
If there was collusion with Russia, here�s where it might have occurred
The known links are not very strong.

By Philip Bump
February 11 at 12:46 PM
From the outset, President Trump�s refrain on the investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential campaign and any coordination with his campaign has been consistent. Since May 2017 � shortly after Robert S. Mueller III was appointed special counsel to investigate the issue � Trump has tweeted some variant of �no collusion!� no fewer than 65 times. That refrain has been constant despite the evolving nature of the investigation, the myriad indictments and the sprawling assessments of who in Trump�s orbit knew what and when.

In reality, the question of collusion isn�t clear. At the poles are those who insist it is: On one end, there are those who, like Trump, seize on the uncertainty or on truncated investigations run by congressional Republicans to say that the absence of proof is proof of absence; and on the other are Trump critics who point to events such as the June 9, 2016, meeting at Trump Tower as proof of collusion in and of itself. In the middle is a lot of gray, no clear line from Trump�s campaign to the Russians seeking to get him elected.

Such a line may emerge. If it does, here are five places it might show up, listed in order from most to least likely.

Paul Manafort�s interactions with Konstantin Kilimnik

What we know: We know that, while serving as Trump�s campaign chairman for several months in the middle of 2016, Manafort had repeated email and in-person conversations with Kilimnik, a longtime business partner of Manafort�s who is believed to have links to Russian intelligence. That includes, among many other things, an in-person meeting in early August 2016 down the street from Trump Tower in New York that included Manafort�s business partner Rick Gates (who was also Manafort�s deputy on the campaign).

To some extent, this is a fairly simple point of interaction to identify as significant because a lawyer working for Mueller himself said that the Manafort-Kilimnik interactions and that Aug. 2 meeting in particular get �very much to the heart of what the Special Counsel�s Office is investigating.�

That comment came in a heavily redacted document detailing a hearing between Mueller�s team and Manafort�s attorneys in which a judge was asked to evaluate the extent to which Manafort might have lied to federal investigators. Those redactions include most of the details about what was discussed during that August meeting, leaving only that tantalizing sentence from attorney Andrew Weissmann.

But journalist Marcy Wheeler, who has been tracking the Mueller inquiry from the outset, matched other released details about Manafort�s time on the campaign to come up with a convincing argument: It was at the Aug. 2 meeting that Manafort shared polling data with Kilimnik, detailed data that came from the campaign.

When the revelation that polling data had been shared with Kilimnik emerged last month, it reportedly consisted largely of publicly available information and was shared in the spring of 2016, according to a person who spoke with the New York Times. If Wheeler�s theory is correct, the polling came much later and was much more closely linked to the campaign. (I noted in January that the campaign didn�t start logging polling expenses until late August, putting this sharing a bit closer to a feasible time frame.) The reports compiled by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele that eventually formed an infamous dossier included the specific allegation that, before his ouster from the campaign, Manafort was the point person on a partnership between Trump�s team and the Russians. This has not been publicly substantiated.

Manafort passing proprietary polling data from the campaign to a Russian with connections to Russian intelligence specifically to be shared with oligarchs linked to Russian President Vladimir Putin (as the Times also reported) would indeed get to the heart of what Mueller is trying to uncover.

Why skepticism is warranted: There are other reasons Manafort might have wanted to share that data. In another conversation with Kilimnik, Manafort asked how he might use his position with the campaign to �get whole� � to recoup money he was owed from former partners in Russia. Manafort had access to something of value and might conceivably have intended to use that to prime the pump. (This raises the ancillary question of whether collusion with Russia needed to have been intentional, which we�ll leave for another day.)

It�s also worth noting that the suggestion that Kilimnik has ties to Russian intelligence doesn�t necessarily mean that the information he was given was shared with those groups.

More compelling is the lack of evidence that any well-targeted effort was undertaken by Russian actors. Data released by social media companies has shown a broad effort to sow division in U.S. politics and to undermine Trump�s 2016 opponent, but we�ve seen no real evidence that there was the sort of targeted effort that might be undertaken with detailed polling data to persuade specific voters in specific places to take a particular action.

In other words, if this was the collusion, it�s not clear how it affected what the Russians were doing.

The article talks about other ways the federal prosecutors may prove their case, but it struck me that if Manafort's work with the Russians and Yanukovych are the reason why we have Trump making GBS threads his pants in the White House ... ugh.

# ? Feb 12, 2019 13:55

Guildencrantz: May 1, 2012; IM ONE OF THE GOOD ONES

Grape posted:

I still find it funny that Hungary of all countries is one of the leading lights of "NO FERNERS IN EUROPE". The country based around a language whose closest relatives are from Siberia.

Come to think of it, this might actually be tangentially relevant in a roundabout way. After all, an important factor in Hungary's right-wing political culture is nostalgic revanchism over the days of the Austro-Hungarian Empire when they dominated huge swathes of the continent, an important factor in that is that Magyarization policies were an abject failure that left very little trace of Hungarian cultural or political influence in its former territories, and a factor in that was that learning Hungarian as a second language is loving impossible. :v:

# ? Feb 12, 2019 19:39

Shy: Mar 20, 2010

Grape posted:

I still find it funny that Hungary of all countries is one of the leading lights of "NO FERNERS IN EUROPE". The country based around a language whose closest relatives are from Siberia.

Oh boy let me tell you about Hungarian fringe linguistic theories. Hungarian is actually Sumerian backwards.

# ? Feb 12, 2019 20:59

Grape: Nov 16, 2017; Happily shilling for China!

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

Are the Estonians and Finnish the same way? Because they come from that same language root. You just don't hear about Estonian or Finnish nazis like you do Hungarian nazis.

They come from the same larger language family, but Hungarian is on a totally different sub-branch, one whose only other relatives are indigenous minority languages from over the Urals.
The Hungarian language presence in Europe straight up comes from a steppe horde invading into Europe and taking over the Pannonian basin.

I really wonder how their particular nationalism mixes the usual huge deal founding myths with the usual xenophobia.

# ? Feb 12, 2019 21:51

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

Here's another example:

Today, the Republic of Macedonia officially changed it's name to North Macedonia.

Today is a good day for Greece.

# ? Feb 12, 2019 23:06

Flavahbeast: Jul 21, 2001

its actually an unacceptable compromise and a slap in the face to the true descendants of Alexander

# ? Feb 13, 2019 01:54

Grape: Nov 16, 2017; Happily shilling for China!

The whole thing is mega stupid.

# ? Feb 13, 2019 02:02

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

Grouchio posted:

Here's another example:

Today, the Republic of Macedonia officially changed it's name to North Macedonia.

Today is a good day for Greece.

Id like to report this post for anti greek rhetoric

# ? Feb 13, 2019 03:54

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Imagine being so beta you accept a directional adjective in your country�s name

# ? Feb 13, 2019 05:03

Grape: Nov 16, 2017; Happily shilling for China!

Even Greeks when you press them enough sheepishly admit it's dumb lol.
There's kinda sorta a bit of racism involved, since Greeks see the bordering Balkans peoples in pretttttty condescending terms (especially Albanians, but yeah Macedonians and Bulgarians too).

# ? Feb 13, 2019 05:48

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

My Greek roommate once offered me what he called an Albanian-style omelette, proceeding to steal German roommate�s eggs when I agreed.

# ? Feb 13, 2019 09:57

Gantolandon: Aug 19, 2012

Grape posted:

They come from the same larger language family, but Hungarian is on a totally different sub-branch, one whose only other relatives are indigenous minority languages from over the Urals.
The Hungarian language presence in Europe straight up comes from a steppe horde invading into Europe and taking over the Pannonian basin.

I really wonder how their particular nationalism mixes the usual huge deal founding myths with the usual xenophobia.

To be fair, that's the origin story of most of the nations in Europe. Italians are descendants of Lombards that invaded the peninsula after Justinian got rid of Ostrogoths; French origin story starts with an empire they forged after displacing the original Roman one in Gaul; the basis for the United Kingdom were various warlord states of Saxon mercenaries who got ambitious and conquered the previous inhabitants, then got conquered by the French descended from the Norse who conquered Normandy.

# ? Feb 13, 2019 12:18

Osmosisch: Sep 9, 2007; I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."; Grimey Drawer

It's genocides all the way down. For whatever reason this impels some people to be proud of their bunch.

# ? Feb 13, 2019 12:39

alex314: Nov 22, 2007

Slavs simply left their swamps and took all that decent land Germanics vacated while trying to trash Roman Empire..

# ? Feb 13, 2019 12:44

Dwesa: Jul 19, 2016

Osmosisch posted:

It's genocides all the way down. For whatever reason this impels some people to be proud of their bunch.

Nah, not really, there was probably more assimilation and mixing than genocides. Which means pretty much everyone in Europe is of mixed descent. For example, Hungarian far-right and anti-semitic politician Szegedi from Jobbik party found out in 2012 that his grandmother was Jewish.

# ? Feb 13, 2019 13:45

Grouchio: Aug 31, 2014

I wonder if there's still any celtic blood left in Turkey from the Galatians. Or Anatolian

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Feb 13, 2019 15:19

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Congrats, BM - Russia is banning both smartphone use and sharing information online for troops.

# ? Feb 13, 2019 17:50

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Dwesa posted:

Nah, not really, there was probably more assimilation and mixing than genocides. Which means pretty much everyone in Europe is of mixed descent. For example, Hungarian far-right and anti-semitic politician Szegedi from Jobbik party found out in 2012 that his grandmother was Jewish.

# ? Feb 13, 2019 18:10

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

Grouchio posted:

I wonder if there's still any celtic blood left in Turkey from the Galatians. Or Anatolian

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

May be the other way around: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/dec/28/origins-of-the-irish-down-to-mass-migration-ancient-dna-confirms

Also what a bizarre probation

# ? Feb 13, 2019 18:12

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

steinrokkan posted:

May be the other way around: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/dec/28/origins-of-the-irish-down-to-mass-migration-ancient-dna-confirms

Also what a bizarre probation

Party Plane Jones' reason is :yikes:

so it must be something bizarrely bad.

And :tipshat:

for explaining the differences between Estonian, Finnish, and Hungarian.

# ? Feb 13, 2019 18:32

chesnok: Nov 14, 2014

cinci zoo sniper posted:

My Greek roommate once offered me what he called an Albanian-style omelette, proceeding to steal German roommate�s eggs when I agreed.

kek

# ? Feb 14, 2019 05:47

Anne Frank Funk: Nov 4, 2008

So will the war with Iran have its humble beginnings in Warsaw? :unsmigghh:

# ? Feb 14, 2019 14:50

alex314: Nov 22, 2007

The new and improved Warsaw Pact :allears:

# ? Feb 14, 2019 15:14

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Anne Frank Funk posted:

So will the war with Iran have its humble beginnings in Warsaw?

Wait, what?

# ? Feb 14, 2019 15:33

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

OddObserver posted:

Wait, what?

Here you go.

# ? Feb 14, 2019 15:40

Anne Frank Funk: Nov 4, 2008

And this, and this (in Polish only so far)

Tasty quote from the Polish text:

Mike Pence posted:

The Iranian regime openly calls for another Holocaust. In Syria, Iranian soldiers support the Assad regime, in Lebanon, Hezbollah is supported by Iran. In Yemen, the rebels shoot Iranian rockets, spreading chaos and destruction across the country. The Iranian regime financed a kingdom of chaos.

Curiously, no mention of the other side of Yemeni war :mmmhmm:

# ? Feb 14, 2019 15:48

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Happy Independence Day, Lithuania :toot:

# ? Feb 16, 2019 17:00

Xerxes17: Feb 17, 2011

HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:

Happy Independence Day, Lithuania

Have some beer and traditional food on my behalf lads!

# ? Feb 16, 2019 23:50

OhFunny: Jun 26, 2013; EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1096369934513438720?s=19

Changed his tune over the last two months.

# ? Feb 17, 2019 15:07

Paladinus: Jan 11, 2014; heyHEYYYY!!!

OhFunny posted:

https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1096369934513438720?s=19

Changed his tune over the last two months.

The translation is a bit off, so it'd be nice to see some context.

'In coordinating, in uniting efforts of our countries and our nations, we are ready to go as far as you are ready to go. Listen, the two of us (gesturing toward Putin) can unite tomorrow, we have no problem with that.'

# ? Feb 17, 2019 16:32

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

Anne Frank Funk posted:

So will the war with Iran have its humble beginnings in Warsaw?

might have been too soon: Netanyahu seems to have angered Poles with a comment on how some collaborated with Nazis on the holocaust. Polish PM has cancelled visit to Israel and demonstrators have gathered in front of Israeli embassy in Warsaw: