|
It's like trying to beat him in being aware about lovely titty niche anime games
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2019 21:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 12:24 |
|
|
Why is GT Trunk's outfit so loving bad
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2019 21:57
|
|
|
Cargo pants in space is a terrible fashion faux-pas.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2019 21:57
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:Why is GT Trunk's outfit so loving bad Toriyama was clearly very burnt out by the time he had to design the GT stuff, giving us some incredibly poor designs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2019 22:28
|
|
|
Every single thing in GT is irredeemable garbage.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2019 23:11
|
|
|
GT had a HANDFUL of good ideas and sadly it did nothing good with a single one of them I dig the idea of SSj4, I liked the idea of the Tuffles coming back for ancestral revenge, the Dark Dragons were a very cool way to punish them for all the years of ball abuse, and it's clear the Black Star balls were inspirations for the much cooler Super Dragon Balls with the whole universal scavenger hunt to find them, but all of it was done in the most bland boring banal way possible
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2019 23:14
|
|
|
The dark dragons are such a good idea it's a drat shame they were wasted on GT.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2019 23:23
|
|
|
There really wasn't anything wrong with any of GT's Big Ideas. Depowering Goku through the kid thing and trying to go back to the comedy dragon ball hunts of the original series just with more aliens? Cool. The Saiyan's ancestral enemy making a comeback and turning their own powers on them? Sure, why not? Evil dragons born from overusing the dragon balls? Actually an awesome idea. Even Super 17 was perfectly workable, he's really not that much more out there than making Z's final boss a candy-munching weirdo made out of living bubble gum. It's just that all of that was paired with passionless writing, mostly weak designs, and incredibly bland visual execution.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 00:39
|
|
|
Wasn't Omega Sheron big moment blowing up a rollercoaster? Something that regular 17 in the future time line did along with the rest of the theme park?
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 00:42
|
|
|
Nope, I still take offense with deaging Goku. That was pointless and ineffective marking at kids when you don't need that. You already had Pan and Trunks, you could have included more young characters. Why the gently caress does Kakarot need to be 12 again?
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 00:44
|
|
|
How is Kid Goku marketing to children when they had become very familiar with grown man rear end Goku the entire previous series?
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 00:46
|
|
|
Depowering in general is a terrible idea because it doesn’t do anything. You can just do what they do with 17 and just power him up because at this point power levels are so nebulous it doesn’t matter
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 00:46
|
|
|
Crabtree posted:Nope, I still take offense with deaging Goku. That was pointless and ineffective marking at kids when you don't need that. You already had Pan and Trunks, you could have included more young characters. Why the gently caress does Kakarot need to be 12 again? Well, you're not wrong, but that was far from the most egregious example of the story tying itself into knots to make Goku the hero, lol. It could still totally have worked if any part of the actual dragonball hunt was, you know, good.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 00:47
|
|
|
Why else turn him into the exact same he was at the beginning of Dragonball and try to recreate lighter hearted adventures than Z if it wasn't a bad decision from Toei to go after a younger demographic? In a franchise this dominated by marketing, where I still bark at the moon at how good Super Broly is, we all know why they specifically set out and made a new canon movie about him. It was good because it was way more than a cash grab, but we know what set this all in motion at the start.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 00:51
|
|
|
Crabtree posted:Why else turn him into the exact same he was at the beginning of Dragonball and try to recreate lighter hearted adventures than Z if it wasn't a bad decision from Toei to go after a younger demographic? In a franchise this dominated by marketing, where I still bark at the moon at how good Super Broly is, we all know why they specifically set out and made a new canon movie about him. It was good because it was way more than a cash grab, but we know what set this all in motion at the start. According to the main writer, it was both to bring back "the feeling" of the original series and to avoid Goku from steamrolling any obstacle or enemy. Atsushi Maekawa posted:Why did Goku turn back into a child in GT? http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-gt-dragon-book-dragon-ball-q-atsushi-maekawa-story-qa/ YMMV on whether it was the right call or not, but I very much prefer this approach than Super's. Since the series will keep making stronger and stronger villains, I prefer when there's a logic to the escalation, instead of having a supposed benchmark (the GoD) that keeps getting upped up to the point it becomes a meaningless benchmark.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:05
|
|
|
Except there wasn't any logic to the escalation. Goku was still fighting stronger and stronger enemies and got stronger and stronger forms. The previous benchmarks also got effortlessly one-upped. (Remember when General Rilldo was stronger than the magic bubblegum genie who terrorized the galaxy?) Like nothing in DBGT REALLY ended up weaker because eventually they introduced people who had to be a threat to end-of-series Goku/Vegeta, their new bigger penis super forms, and of course their fusion. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Feb 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:15
|
|
|
Weakening only really works if you establish some other way to win. But GT still goes with the more powerful dude/attack wins so it doesn’t really work.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:22
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Except there wasn't any logic to the escalation. Goku was still fighting stronger and stronger enemies and got stronger and stronger forms. The previous benchmarks also got effortlessly one-upped. (Remember when General Rilldo was stronger than the magic bubblegum genie who terrorized the galaxy?) It followed the simple logic of "new guy is stronger than the previous one". And even then, they weren't that strong from the get go. Baby had to enslave the entire planet and get the energy of four saiyans to be able to clown Goku. Super 17 grew stronger by absorbing the attacks of the Z warriors and Goku's. The Shadow Dragons were all of different strengths, with the weaker ones having gimmicks to even the playing field and only One and Four stars being at Goku's level or higher. And then once One Star became Omega all the bets were off. Compared to Super that build up Bills as THE strongest being in the universe and that trading mere punches with Goku was enough to shake the universe. Then all of that was never mentioned again and at least a dozen of new characters are introduced that are at a higher level that Goku was when he fought Bills, making the claims about Bills strength exaggerated at best, silly at worst. And they just keep getting dumber and dumber with the introduction of progressively stronger characters like Jiren, Moro and Broly. Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Feb 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:24
|
|
|
Power levels are better when they are in flux and goku's whole gimmick is finding stronger enemies. As much as Super has turned the dial past 11 in terms of cosmic threats Goku faces, it has also laid down the ground work to destroy the necessity to be beholden to the exact size of a battle power number no matter what. GT, conceptually and in execution, decided to take a character that helped pioneer aging your protagonists through the story and decided "NOPE, REDUCE IT ALL BACK TO 0 AGAIN. THAT'S HOW WE SOLVE THINKING UP CHALLENGES TO GOKU". Buu, in a sense, is a prototype in trying to utilize action and comedy again. As well as making Frieza a petty bitch that is still evil and a schemer, but not the greated threat - aka - a New Pilaf. Super is not perfect, but what ultimately matters is the execution of the show and the Grand Tour suffered more than Super in my opinion. Spiritus Nox posted:Well, you're not wrong, but that was far from the most egregious example of the story tying itself into knots to make Goku the hero, lol. It could still totally have worked if any part of the actual dragonball hunt was, you know, good. Yeah, execution of an adventure is what makes the difference and you could do the exact same in super. Have them visit U11 or the 4 we don't see and, oops, the atmosphere/universal matter of that universe is like a very oppressive gravity and Goku/Vegeta/Broly/Etc struggle to adapt and move in this new environment, let alone fight in it. This scenario can be poo poo when utilized. The pieces of GT could be used again and in better ways, hell, they salvaged and redeemed Big Green Boy. But simply deaging and depowering is not "recapturing" Dragonball.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:26
|
|
|
Beerus literally has never been in a serious fight.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:27
|
|
|
Crabtree posted:Power levels are better when they are in flux and goku's whole gimmick is finding stronger enemies. As much as Super has turned the dial past 11 in terms of cosmic threats Goku faces, it has also laid down the ground work to destroy the necessity to be beholden to the exact size of a battle power number no matter what. GT, conceptually and in execution, decided to take a character that helped pioneer aging your protagonists through the story and decided "NOPE, REDUCE IT ALL BACK TO 0 AGAIN. THAT'S HOW WE SOLVE THINKING UP CHALLENGES TO GOKU". This is a funny statement to make considering the way Super (and Toriyama a for association) refuses to ever let the characters grow again narratively and in age because he thinks older characters aren't interesting. quote:Buu, in a sense, is a prototype in trying to utilize action and comedy again. As well as making Frieza a petty bitch that is still evil and a schemer, but not the greated threat - aka - a New Pilaf. Super is not perfect, but what ultimately matters is the execution of the show and the Grand Tour suffered more than Super in my opinion. I never understood the hard on everyone has for Freezer these days but I found very jarring the way he was handled in the Broly movie. quote:Yeah, execution of an adventure is what makes the difference and you could do the exact same in super. Have them visit U11 or the 4 we don't see and, oops, the atmosphere/universal matter of that universe is like a very oppressive gravity and Goku/Vegeta/Broly/Etc struggle to adapt and move in this new environment, let alone fight in it. This scenario can be poo poo when utilized. The pieces of GT could be used again and in better ways, hell, they salvaged and redeemed Big Green Boy. But simply deaging and depowering is not "recapturing" Dragonball. They blew their load already with those approachs. On one hand you have the ludicrous training that Whis puts Goku and Vegeta through and on the other you have Broly living 40 Years on a "hellhole" planet without knowing what water is. So, there's no way they can use the environment as a real hurdle for the protagonists to overcome.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:34
|
|
|
Weakening a character accomplishes nothing. DB fights have been the same thing since Frieza. Weakening them, making them stronger are accomplishing the same thing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:40
|
|
|
Also no mater what you do you cannot make Super 17 a decent villain. FighterZ story almost feels like they took some of the concepts of that arc and use them better, but "An evil 17 and the good 17 fuse and absorb ki" was just terrible from the start.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:42
|
|
|
I fondly remember that time Goku's master plan for killing Super 17, a villain who absorbed energy, was to shoot him with more energy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:44
|
|
|
Wait GT stood for Grand Tour? What the gently caress?
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:48
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:It followed the simple logic of "new guy is stronger than the previous one". Okay, except... Beerus is still held up as the strongest dude in the universe. Broly is the only real competition and that is because Saiyans have a loving absurd amount of natural potential baked into their genes, something that was previously established with Kale. (And also every other loving Saiyan.) Jiren is from another universe and Moro is from an arc still in progress and has magic bullshit stuff to justify being a threat. Edit: Also Beerus has the Frieza problem of not really training or exerting himself due to his massive overwhelming power so if they reach the point of "Beerus needs to try" he has a baked-in justification for powering up already. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Feb 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:49
|
|
|
Billzasilver posted:Wait GT stood for Grand Tour? What the gently caress? Step into it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:54
|
|
|
Dexo posted:Beerus literally has never been in a serious fight. That doesn't stop them from billing every new villain/adversary as being stronger (or possibly stronger) than him. Momomo posted:Also no mater what you do you cannot make Super 17 a decent villain. FighterZ story almost feels like they took some of the concepts of that arc and use them better, but "An evil 17 and the good 17 fuse and absorb ki" was just terrible from the start. Super 17 was the "Captain Planet" of Gero's Android's actually: endless power source like 17&18, absorbing skills as 19&20 and cannons on his arms like 16. Bumper Stickup posted:I fondly remember that time Goku's master plan for killing Super 17, a villain who absorbed energy, was to shoot him with more energy. That was Goku falling victim of his own hubris. He got cocky and when he realized what happened was too late.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 01:56
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:This is a funny statement to make considering the way Super (and Toriyama a for association) refuses to ever let the characters grow again narratively and in age because he thinks older characters aren't interesting. Yes, it is crap now with Toriyama scared of having a grandpa Shonen Protagonist as it was in GT. Probably because it makes him feel old. Point still stands that they should embrace and age characters, Goku and everyone else. GT did at least half of that, but set the precedent of being scared to take Kakarot further. Let Trunks and Goten age up and make their own dumb martial arts school. Let Gohan become a scholar that introduces earth to ki control and start a martial arts Renaissance. Let Videl be active again in martial arts because her Pan is absolutely in love with Grandpa Goku and wants to fight strong people just like him. Let Pan, Broly and Cheelai be cute. Let Goku learn what its like to be a teacher through his silly friendship with Broly. Let Krillin start thinking about teaching his kid after watching and helping Goku along with Vegeta. Let Vegeta visit U6. Let Kale be gay and happy. Let characters progress! Super is like a cork on the edge of potentially cool and interesting things for the franchise and it needs to finally pop. GT has good pieces that can be re-utilize and one of those good pieces was at least letting Trunks be a Teen and Pan sort of fights. We can do better. Crabtree fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Feb 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 02:01
|
|
|
Bumper Stickup posted:I fondly remember that time Goku's master plan for killing Super 17, a villain who absorbed energy, was to shoot him with more energy. This happened in Z.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 02:20
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:That doesn't stop them from billing every new villain/adversary as being stronger (or possibly stronger) than him. When has that ever been stated?
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 02:21
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:When has that ever been stated? They say it with Jiren kind of but that’s it
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 02:26
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:This is a funny statement to make considering the way Super (and Toriyama a for association) refuses to ever let the characters grow again narratively and in age because he thinks older characters aren't interesting. But Broly knew what water was.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 02:28
|
|
|
I love Hit
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 02:31
|
|
|
I think they mostly imply it with Jiren, since he's stronger than Toppo, the GoD candidate, but I'd be willing to bet Beerus is much stronger than Toppo. Then i think Goku says something to Broly like, "whoa! you might be stronger than Beerus!" But we haven't really seen Beerus fight at full-tilt, so we still have no way of knowing exactly how strong Beerus actually is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 02:32
|
|
|
Didn’t fighting regular red ssgod make Beerus fight at around 75%? Wouldn’t Goku with ssgsskkx20 be already more than a match for him? I remember Beerus doing the collar tugging thing and muttering something about needing to train when goku pulled that out
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 02:41
|
|
|
Beerus was very worried about Goku achieving UI; that doesn't automatically mean he would lose to Goku, especially given Goku's general attitude and that he can't maintain UI or even control it. Jiren did well against UI but still got rocked hard. Gogeta Blue almost effortlessly bodied Full Power Broly, who didn't have any real training to speak of. Jiren beats Broly, maybe can hold his own with Gogeta Blue. Vegito Blue was beating Fused Zamasu pretty well until you account for the immortality and Potara time limit. All of it is dumb but "Who would win?" has been a cornerstone of DB discussion for decades so who cares. Of course, Beerus easily destroyed regular Zamasu but was that just Destruction or was Zamasu way beyond outclassed? Calaveron posted:Didn’t fighting regular red ssgod make Beerus fight at around 75%? Wouldn’t Goku with ssgsskkx20 be already more than a match for him? I remember Beerus doing the collar tugging thing and muttering something about needing to train when goku pulled that out Was that in Super? Anything from BoG can be dismissed as non-canon, Super is less readily dismissed but was also over three years ago and things change 
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 02:47
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:Beerus was very worried about Goku achieving UI; that doesn't automatically mean he would lose to Goku, especially given Goku's general attitude and that he can't maintain UI or even control it. Jiren did well against UI but still got rocked hard. Gogeta Blue almost effortlessly bodied Full Power Broly, who didn't have any real training to speak of. Goku clowned Zamasu pretty effortlessly
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 02:49
|
|
|
Zamasu needed Goku's body to achieve any sort of real power. Without that he's just an edgelord.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 02:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 12:24 |
|
|
Calaveron posted:Goku clowned Zamasu pretty effortlessly You're right, I just remembered that. Zamasu himself was pretty useless in a fight comparatively.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2019 02:50
|
|