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quote:i got accused on a sunday, vetted and hired a lawyer by monday night and did what everyone i know who's a public figure and every lawyer i talked to said and what i thought was right: put out a public statement I mean, maybe he only spoke to Donald Trump's lawyers? edit: Also (not linking to it) one of Zak's defenders dismissing Vivka's testimony because 'I didn't like her and didn't gently caress her' is one of the most wtf things i've ever read. PST fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 23:18
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Comrade Gorbash posted:http://cavegirlgames.blogspot.com/2019/02/thoughts-on-zaklash-personal-stuff.html Yeeeeeah, 'I unironically hang out at and think 4chan is pretty acceptable' is already setting flags off. E: also the 'people should stop saying that we, his defenders, should have known, because on some level we did and this makes me feel horrible.' Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 23:19
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Mors Rattus posted:Yeeeeeah, 'I unironically hang out at and think 4chan is pretty acceptable' is already setting flags off. I get that Zak is a manipulator and gaslights people and is very good at pushing a narrative, but we've been saying this for years. I'm sorry that engaging with the fact that they were complicit makes people uncomfortable, but they were still complicit. They should be uncomfortable. They hosed up and the only way not to gently caress up in the future is to confront how they hosed up in the past. And the post comes across as type specimen of that attitude, which is sadly common. Even Kenneth loving Hite is doing better than that, and he sucks. Ultimately it just means that there are people who I won't trust not to make the same error in the future, so any engagement with them has to keep that in mind and firewalls would have to be established.
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Feb 15, 2019 23:28
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Mors Rattus posted:Yeeeeeah, 'I unironically hang out at and think 4chan is pretty acceptable' is already setting flags off. There's also "Stop saying we should have known because that's just hurtful to the people who benefited from his presence." and "Stop attacking him because he'll take it out on the women in his life." Those sure are... positions.. you can hold I guess. PST posted:Also (not linking to it) one of Zak's defenders dismissing Vivka's testimony because 'I didn't like her and didn't gently caress her' is one of the most wtf things i've ever read. I.. I mean you said you aren't linking to it but what.
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Feb 15, 2019 23:28
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Kurieg posted:There's also "Stop saying we should have known because that's just hurtful to the people who benefited from his presence." and "Stop attacking him because he'll take it out on the women in his life." Those sure are... positions.. you can hold I guess. It's been just me and another guy (until someone who follows zak jumped in and says no one is allowed to say anything to zak's defenders) trying to engage with one of the women defending Zak. She's admitted she lived with them years beforehand, and had left before any of the abuse happened, and apparently hadn't been friends with them for years but believes Zak and clearly has long standing issues with Mandy based on stuff she's said. She's continued this 'everyone knows all about Mandy' defence, to which both me and this other person kept returning to 'but what about Hannah, Jennifer and Vivka After multiple rounds of this, she said quote:Vivka was annoying from the moment I met her I never hosed with her and all of them getting together for this nonsense is on brand. Which, err...
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Feb 15, 2019 23:49
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Kurieg posted:There's also "Stop saying we should have known because that's just hurtful to the people who benefited from his presence." Before she edited it out, she called those people ''cunts.''
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Feb 16, 2019 00:02
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I know it’s a little “complaining to the manager,” but is there any good in complaining to Wizards’ customer service line about Mearls and his enabling of this rapist?
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Feb 16, 2019 00:05
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CaptainRat posted:Edit: I was tired and angry and said something stupid. Off topic: Are you by chance named after a Midwestern cover band lol?
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Feb 16, 2019 00:49
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99 CENTS AMIGO posted:I know it’s a little “complaining to the manager,” but is there any good in complaining to Wizards’ customer service line about Mearls and his enabling of this rapist? I can't think of a reason it would hurt anything, as long as you're nice to the person you're talking to. He's clearly not listening to anybody reaching out directly.
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Feb 16, 2019 00:52
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malibu anime posted:Off topic: Are you by chance named after a Midwestern cover band lol? That was one of the influences, although I never actually heard them, just saw posters and such in my town when I was growing up and thought the name sounded cool. Also I do want to genuinely apologize for my dumb post. Sorry everyone.
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Feb 16, 2019 01:16
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Mors Rattus posted:Yeeeeeah, 'I unironically hang out at and think 4chan is pretty acceptable' is already setting flags off. /tg/ is pretty ok, they made some nice games.
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Feb 16, 2019 01:25
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in general if someone defends or champions any* individual board of 4chan rather than the website as a whole, it's probably fine, but the website itself has become associated so heavily with certain lovely attitudes and communities that unless a person talking about how 4chan is a great place is also specifically admitting the existence of said attitudes and communities and (at the very least) claiming not to be part of them, it's pretty safe to assume they support them. *okay, except that one. and that other one. and... okay.
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Feb 16, 2019 01:47
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a computing pun posted:in general if someone defends or champions any* individual board of 4chan rather than the website as a whole, it's probably fine, but the website itself has become associated so heavily with certain lovely attitudes and communities that unless a person talking about how 4chan is a great place is also specifically admitting the existence of said attitudes and communities and (at the very least) claiming not to be part of them, it's pretty safe to assume they support them. *Bedlam Dannishly* Ah, but what about Helldump and GBS and how they are emblematic of SA as a whole...
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Feb 16, 2019 01:51
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Kurieg posted:There's also "Stop saying we should have known because that's just hurtful to the people who benefited from his presence." and "Stop attacking him because he'll take it out on the women in his life." Those sure are... positions.. you can hold I guess. Not only that, but the same person thinks that you can tell a person wasn't seriously abused because they weren't constantly looking for an out and for help. As we all know, victims of abuse and hosed up domestic situations aren't ever afraid to reach out for help and would never, ever put up with a bad situation out of a belief that it's what they deserve or the best they can get. EDIT: For bonus weird, to 'prove' it was her on reddit, Frankie linked to her mostly dormant tumblr, made a post there, then deleted that link and the post.
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Feb 16, 2019 02:13
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CaptainRat posted:That was one of the influences, although I never actually heard them, just saw posters and such in my town when I was growing up and thought the name sounded cool. What the hell that’s so weird. Are you from Champaign area?
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Feb 16, 2019 03:13
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PST posted:It's been just me and another guy (until someone who follows zak jumped in and says no one is allowed to say anything to zak's defenders) trying to engage with one of the women defending Zak. The only thing I can think of is that "loving with" "not loving with" is pretty common slang for, well. A lot of stuff but with people usually means they hang out/don't hang out.
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Feb 16, 2019 03:17
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Plutonis posted:/tg/ is pretty ok, they made some nice games. The site is sinking as /pol/ infects every goddamn board, but /tg/ isn't too insufferable at the moment, as long as you keep to the right general discussion threads. /a/ was beyond saving even when I first saw the site in 06/07, but /co/ wasn't particularly bad - unfortunately /co/ has sunk into the mire since then.
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Feb 16, 2019 03:22
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LashLightning posted:The site is sinking as /pol/ infects every goddamn board, but /tg/ isn't too insufferable at the moment, as long as you keep to the right general discussion threads. /tg/ is suffering from the same problem every other board on 4chan is suffering which is the inevitable feedback loop that occurs when you have an online community with lax to no moderation or community enforced standards. The more lovely people who set up shop and aren't tossed out the more actual decent people leave and don't come back, then the low standards act as a beacon for even more lovely people and the cycle repeats itself. You can say "gently caress off back to /pol/" all you want but unless someone is actually taking steps to enforce that it's only a matter of time before things break down.
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Feb 16, 2019 03:45
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/pol/ was never a containment board, it was a beachhead.
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Feb 16, 2019 04:46
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Comrade Gorbash posted:http://cavegirlgames.blogspot.com/2019/02/thoughts-on-zaklash-personal-stuff.html At the bottom there's an excerpt from a chat with Zak where he says "she won't talk to the accused. like most accusers on the internet" which is certainly a demand to place on an abuse victim.
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Feb 16, 2019 05:55
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LatwPIAT posted:At the bottom there's an excerpt from a chat with Zak where he says "she won't talk to the accused. like most accusers on the internet" which is certainly a demand to place on an abuse victim. Because he wants everyone to engage him on a forum of his choosing, mainly one where he can edit what they say. It came up back when he posted here, he kept on wanting to engage people offsite. Also he probably thinks that once he gets to talking to them again he can get them back on his side... Or he just wants to hurt her more. Either way. gently caress him. Kurieg fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Feb 16, 2019 |
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Feb 16, 2019 06:12
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Don't forget his 'accusations on the internet' decision tree which basically just loops around hovering as far from 'ever believe accusations' as possible. He seems to be against anyone believing any accusation, presumably because he feels more secure that way. He's presumably constructed this as an ideology in order to try to convince other people to take up the cause of never holding Zak S accountable for his awful actions.
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Feb 16, 2019 06:18
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I don't know if it's been expressed yet but Frankie's defence of him includes the concept that if you're a victim of abuse, you must be reaching out for help or looking for a way out while the abuse is ongoing. That's just about the most hosed up, dangerous myth to be passing around because people in the middle of those situations often can't reach out at all, not just because of isolation but because of internalized attitudes stemming from the abuse that they deserve it, no one will be understand, etc. 'It can't be serious abuse if they aren't trying to run' is genuinely dangerous to put out there as an 'informed opinion'.
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Feb 16, 2019 06:46
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Frankie's unlocked her Twitter again, but please don't go and bother her over all this, it's probably a very complicated and painful situation for her. Rebuke her defence, but don't attack her. Instead, I suggest signal-boosing this gal: https://twitter.com/LadyNasse/status/1096610854580207617 She's one of Mandy's close friends, was mentioned in Frankie's defence of Zak, and has words to say about how the situation has been misrepresented and how she's been used as a weapon against Mandy.
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Feb 16, 2019 07:05
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Loomer posted:I don't know if it's been expressed yet but Frankie's defence of him includes the concept that if you're a victim of abuse, you must be reaching out for help or looking for a way out while the abuse is ongoing. That's just about the most hosed up, dangerous myth to be passing around because people in the middle of those situations often can't reach out at all, not just because of isolation but because of internalized attitudes stemming from the abuse that they deserve it, no one will be understand, etc. 'It can't be serious abuse if they aren't trying to run' is genuinely dangerous to put out there as an 'informed opinion'.
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Feb 16, 2019 07:06
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One thing in all of this that I've noticed is a common trend among everyone who's known Zak is that even when they were friends with him and maybe defending him or being caught up in his orbit, even then, they can't help but say "his obsession with arguing about D&D on the internet was really fuckin weird." There's something incredibly pathetic about someone who, even at their most manipulatively charismatic, just can't stop being mad about games even for a minute.
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Feb 16, 2019 07:39
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Loomer posted:I don't know if it's been expressed yet but Frankie's defence of him includes the concept that if you're a victim of abuse, you must be reaching out for help or looking for a way out while the abuse is ongoing. That's just about the most hosed up, dangerous myth to be passing around because people in the middle of those situations often can't reach out at all, not just because of isolation but because of internalized attitudes stemming from the abuse that they deserve it, no one will be understand, etc. 'It can't be serious abuse if they aren't trying to run' is genuinely dangerous to put out there as an 'informed opinion'. Internalizing abuse is really hard to overcome. That nagging sense of "You deserve this." can dominate your every thought. You don't ask for help because you don't think you need it, and you know that none will be offered anyway.
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Feb 16, 2019 09:12
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Several people from the OSR part of the industry have been talking about their experiences with Zak. It's nothing new to anyone here, if anything the only surprising thing is how he fooled so many for so long. https://maziriansgarden.blogspot.com/2019/02/crossroads.html https://twitter.com/chthonstone https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/2019/02/osr-on-zak-sabbath-smith.html Zak's twitter block/timeout thing looks to be up and his first action is to start to spam his defence in replies again (because he spammed his defence everywhere, he got a 24-hour timeout as it just let people report him for it) Loomer posted:And like clockwork he's back to it, now with the change that he's linking his statement and telling people to stop harassing him. That's what he was spamming before, now with added 'please stop harassing me' claims PST fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Feb 16, 2019 |
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Feb 16, 2019 09:27
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And like clockwork he's back to it, now with the change that he's linking his statement and telling people to stop harassing him.
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Feb 16, 2019 09:44
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90s Cringe Rock posted:"do you not see how that leads to everyone getting punched? i mean: that's storygames." -- zak s I will never stop laughing at this. I can only imagine I will think of this ten years now and laugh. And laugh. And laugh. What a hopeless, awful chud.
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Feb 16, 2019 14:18
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https://twitter.com/hottestsingles/status/1096633734969712641
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Feb 16, 2019 15:01
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PST posted:Several people from the OSR part of the industry have been talking about their experiences with Zak. It's nothing new to anyone here, if anything the only surprising thing is how he fooled so many for so long. Ben's article also touches on something important to keep in mind. The conspiracy of an "OSR vs Storygames" feud that Mark Diaz Truman fell for, which was the central focus of the Two Minutes Hate blog post, was a spin fabricated and perpetuated by Zak. It was never about the two communities feuding, it was about prominent people in one group having the distance needed to spot an abusive online presence (Zak) and calling him out, with Zak countering in his usual nasty way. Any conflict between the two wider groups always tied back into relationships (positive and negative) with Zak.
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Feb 16, 2019 16:25
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 Decided to pick at this a bit.
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Feb 16, 2019 17:23
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Definitely read these articles, especially this one.quote:Some of his arguments were logical. Some were appeals to my good nature. But they all lead to the same place. Arguing with Zak is like fighting smoke. You stop believing yourself. You lose track of your own principles, your own views, until eventually all that's left is Zak. The only way to make him go away was to make him think he won.
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Feb 16, 2019 18:06
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This Twitter thread is required reading, as well. https://twitter.com/PopCultOCD/status/1096749696033456128?s=19
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Feb 16, 2019 18:09
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JohnnyCanuck posted:This Twitter thread is required reading, as well. Yeah, the McFarlands are even worse than I thought. I’m horrified that the IGDN enabled them for so long, and I’m thankful they’re at least investigating now how the hell nobody stopped them. But the industry is clearly not a safe space, and is so goddamn unprofessional that abusers are clearly able to thrive.
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Feb 16, 2019 18:31
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JohnnyCanuck posted:This Twitter thread is required reading, as well. Holden's in that thread pretending to be the main whistleblower on Matt and the hypocrisy is deafening.
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Feb 16, 2019 18:52
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Kurieg posted:Holden's in that thread pretending to be the main whistleblower on Matt and the hypocrisy is deafening. It's kind of mind-blowing to see Holden get positive mentions in a thread about people using a different person's abusiveness coming to light to cover their own shittiness, and other people just going, "Oh man Holden you're so right, you are truly The Wokest" Why is everything poo poo.
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Feb 16, 2019 18:58
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It turns out that you personally hating someone is not sufficient to make them a social pariah? Like, seriously, I think Something Awful has gotten so accustomed to doing a Holden derail every time he tweets about social justice without asking you for absolution first that you forget that other people kind of don't care about your feuds. Rand Brittain fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Feb 16, 2019 |
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Feb 16, 2019 19:26
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Rand Brittain posted:It turns out that you personally hating someone is not sufficient to make them a social pariah? Did you read the goddamn thread? It's entirely about how people in this industry are too eager to protect abusers and sex pests because they're integrated into your social circles. You know the thing Holden has admitted to doing. I personally hate him because he's keeps using the hardships of others to deflect attention away from his friend. And was signal boosting him this wednesday.
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Feb 16, 2019 19:30
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