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Kurnugia posted:Oh sure I could, but there isn't really much there to "rebutt" when you're arguing that there are two camps and i'm in the enemys corner. so i think maybe i'll go to bed instead I mean obviously there's a neutral camp but you have an ideology you're pushing, so you're not neutral. And what you are pushing claims that anyone who opposes Maduro is pushing for a worse off future for Venezuela than those that would have him stay. What else would you call that if not a pro-Maduro position?
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Feb 16, 2019 02:00
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Russia isn't exactly a hugely rich country, and they've loaned a lot of money to Venezuela. RT/Sputnik/etc. are all still ostensibly pro-Maduro, but there's a chance that Russia may be considering how much of their money they're likely to see again if Maduro continues to run the country into the dirt, versus how much the opposition will be willing to pay if they take over. This is a good point. I'm beginning to wonder what the residual value in Venezuela's oil actually is- especially factoring in refinement costs.
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Feb 16, 2019 02:10
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Venezuela's oil is cheaper than most of what USA exports today. It's not as cheap as that out of the middle east, but it's far cheaper than >$100/barrel tar sand, which is what "biggest oil producer" USA is doing to be the biggest exporter. Turns out fracking is kinda poo poo compared to literally anything else.Volkerball posted:I mean obviously there's a neutral camp but you have an ideology you're pushing, so you're not neutral. And what you are pushing claims that anyone who opposes Maduro is pushing for a worse off future for Venezuela than those that would have him stay. What else would you call that if not a pro-Maduro position? yeah, that's called a strawman, volk. one can see maduro for the corrupt dictator wannabe he is, and still see that probably working with mike "what is murder anyway?" pompeo and elliot "LA genocide" abrams isn't going to end all that well either. meanwhile you're here arguing imaginary maduro supporters. Truga fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Feb 16, 2019 |
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Feb 16, 2019 02:17
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Truga posted:Venezuela's oil is cheaper than most of what USA exports today. It's not as cheap as that out of the middle east, but it's far cheaper than >$100/barrel tar sand, which is what "biggest oil producer" USA is doing to be the biggest exporter. Turns out fracking is kinda poo poo compared to literally anything else. The real problem is extraction—the oil infrastructure has pretty much withered away to nothing, so even though the reserves are still extremely vast it's going to require a shitton of investment to build new wells and repair the port facilities and refineries. Not to say there aren't vast profits to be had, because there certainly are, but any attempt to get more oil out of the country by anyone is going to require a lot of money up-front.
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Feb 16, 2019 02:22
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Thanks for your response. Is there a good source for me to learn more about the details of current Venezuelan oil infra?
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Feb 16, 2019 02:29
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Discendo Vox posted:Thanks for your response. Is there a good source for me to learn more about the details of current Venezuelan oil infra? one issue is that the PDVSA hasn't always been, uh, fully forthcoming with the actual status of current oil infrastructure
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Feb 16, 2019 02:31
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What if we could get noted humanitarian Curtis LeMay on this Venezuela issue? Is he still around?
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Feb 16, 2019 02:47
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A Russian troll farm posted:What if we could get noted humanitarian Curtis LeMay on this Venezuela issue? Is he still around? thanks for your post about an american that died 30 years ago
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Feb 16, 2019 03:58
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Cease to Hope posted:thanks for your post about an american that died 30 years ago You're welcome. Hey, it's a shame ol' Elliott Abrams didn't die roughly 30 years ago, eh?
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Feb 16, 2019 04:02
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Truga posted:Venezuela's oil is cheaper than most of what USA exports today. It's not as cheap as that out of the middle east, but it's far cheaper than >$100/barrel tar sand, which is what "biggest oil producer" USA is doing to be the biggest exporter. Turns out fracking is kinda poo poo compared to literally anything else. Honest question. Aren't fracking and oil sand production very different things? Oil sands are almost entirely in Alberta, Canada. They are environmentally filthy and extremely expensive to produce. There are some oil sands in eastern Utah, but they are almost entirely undeveloped. Meanwhile, from what I read, fracking is a different process and breaks even at about 60 dollars per barrel. Venezuelan crude would be less than that if PSUV had maintained the infrastructure and know-how, but not that much less. And while no oil production is clean, safe or environmentally friendly, fracking is not nearly as environmentally despicable as oil sands.
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Feb 16, 2019 06:21
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Sorry that was a bit of an incoherent ramble and incorrect too, I'll try to explain. Fracking is hitting a ceiling of some kind, despite being highly subsidized by investor money, to break even price per barrel would have to be $60 minimum when the fracking was good, but that seems to be slowing down already, because many of the extra wells being drilled are already in the scraping the barrel stage: https://www.slb.com/news/presentations/2018/2018_0904_kibsgaard_barclays.aspx quote:The North American production base, which makes up the remaining 20% of global supply, has absorbed close to 70% of the demand growth since 2010, initially supported by the Eagle Ford and Bakken and, more recently by the Permian basin. And tar sand oil is going to cost $100/barrel or more. e: I remember reading somewhere that fracking would require at least $80/barrel to stay profitable for the next few years, but I can't find it now. Truga fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Feb 16, 2019 |
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Feb 16, 2019 07:42
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Truga posted:yeah, that's called a strawman, volk. That's exactly what he said.
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Feb 16, 2019 14:20
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CBC issues reluctant acknowledgment they published misleading & false information https://twitter.com/CBCWorldNews/status/1096336337467305984 Edit: Bob le Moche posted:I wonder how liberal interventionists must feel being proven wrong over and over again by events after every US and NATO imperialist adventure and consistently finding themselves on the wrong side of history, but continuing to place their trust in the same bankrupt worldview every single time nonetheless. Having all their allies be fascists, people like Trump, Bolsonaro, Rubio, etc, and finding themselves defending business owners and international corporations against the third world and working class, and yet managing to convince themselves that they're not tools and have noble intentions. Being constantly lied to and yet always coming back to the same sources as authorities. Having no problem with fellow pro-intervention posters in this thread posting racist poo poo like calling an Asian person "piss-colored" or defending Pinochet and making jokes about throwing people from helicopters, just because they happen to be on the same side with regards to Venezuela and against the evil leftist "tankies". Bob le Moche fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Feb 16, 2019 |
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Feb 16, 2019 15:06
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Because I'd like to understand: the bridge is completely built and functional, and it is just administratively closed? Or is it incomplete somehow, either the bridge or access infrastructure? So if the took the barriers down, would it be useable or not? Would it be *used* to truck supplies in, if it were open, if a land route was required? I am aware the sea route exists, but let's ignore that please for establishing the status of the bridge.
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Feb 16, 2019 16:01
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Rust Martialis posted:Because I'd like to understand: the bridge is completely built and functional, and it is just administratively closed? Or is it incomplete somehow, either the bridge or access infrastructure? My understanding is that the bridge has been built and finished for years but was closed on the Columbian side. However it could have been opened by the Columbian government to allow aid traffic through, which is why it was blocked off by the Venezuelan government.
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Feb 16, 2019 16:18
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Rust Martialis posted:So if the took the barriers down, would it be useable or not? Would it be *used* to truck supplies in, if it were open, if a land route was required? They'd need to deal with the armed guards first. https://twitter.com/BramEbus/status/1095362821876076544
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Feb 16, 2019 17:58
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beer_war posted:They'd need to deal with the armed guards first. Again that's just "administratively closed".
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Feb 16, 2019 18:08
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Great news, that LION Maduro won't take poo poo from nobody. His chavista government is so god damne well defined the 22 trillion dollar US economy had to elect a new president just to deal with it and THEY STILL FAILED to get the weapons into the country. I bet the trucks are full of butt cancer guns and RPGs, but those CIA goons will LIE and tell us its food.. Why food? Our people need no food. CLAP is there for them, PDVSA is there for them. 
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Feb 16, 2019 18:15
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Pedro De Heredia posted:Yes, that's exactly what I've done. Ah once again with the bi erasure  , Gotta be one or the other!
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Feb 16, 2019 18:16
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Acebuckeye is correct, the actual bridge is finished. All that's missing are toll booths and such.
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Feb 16, 2019 18:16
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Great news, that LION Maduro won't take poo poo from nobody. His chavista government is so god damne well defined the 22 trillion dollar US economy had to elect a new president just to deal with it and THEY STILL FAILED to get the weapons into the country. Right wing pro-coup Venezuelan expats: we need a wall at the border! Also right wing pro-coup Venezuelan expats: blindly open your borders so our
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Feb 16, 2019 19:28
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I don't think any of the expats in the thread are right wing, and it's still not a coup.
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Feb 16, 2019 19:37
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uninterrupted posted:Right wing pro-coup Venezuelan expats: we need a wall at the border! who is saying this? this is a totally new one on me
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Feb 16, 2019 19:41
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Discendo Vox posted:I don't think any of the expats in the thread are right wing, and it's still not a coup. They support cutting government food aid, cutting public housing, removing price controls, and [licks finger and daintily turns page] baby skull smashers; they’re right wing. Also it’s absolutely a coup; the silly constitutional argument for Fringed Flag Guaido has been flatly disproven and denied by the Venezuelan Supreme Court. Also before more people cry about it “buh buh buh the supreme court justices are all Maduro supporters” doesn’t make them not-supreme court justices. Honestly it’d be more surprising if they supported the US backed agent trying to overthrow the democratically elected government and install a US puppet state.
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Feb 16, 2019 19:48
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uninterrupted posted:They support cutting government food aid, cutting public housing, removing price controls, and [licks finger and daintily turns page] baby skull smashers; they’re right wing. You need help. your susceptibility to propaganda is seriously affecting your judgment. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Feb 16, 2019 |
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Feb 16, 2019 19:51
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Cease to Hope posted:who is saying this? this is a totally new one on me Likewise, and I'm one of the few in my old Highschool group who hadn't fled the Country so I usually have a good idea what the snobbier ones would think there... AstraSage fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Feb 16, 2019 |
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Feb 16, 2019 19:53
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:You need help. your susceptibility to propaganda is seriously affecting your judgment. Sorry, who here is supporting American nation building in
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Feb 16, 2019 19:56
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uninterrupted posted:Also before more people cry about it “buh buh buh the supreme court justices are all Maduro supporters” doesn’t make them not-supreme court justices. Honestly it’d be more surprising if they supported the US backed agent trying to overthrow the democratically elected government and install a US puppet state. It's ironic that "liberal" Americans want democrats to pack the supreme court here but then decry the packing of the judiciary in countries unfriendly to US interests.
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Feb 16, 2019 19:59
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beer_war posted:They'd need to deal with the armed guards first. this (the thing over this specific bridge) is an increasingly hilarious performative mess on both sides good thing there's not a humanitarian crisis going on or anything
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Feb 16, 2019 20:00
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There is nothing 'ironic' about it. Part of the point of packing the court is removing its legitimacy and independence and trading it for power. It's a good trade, but it's a trade; you don't get to keep both.
Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Feb 16, 2019 |
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Feb 16, 2019 20:00
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Discendo Vox posted:I don't think any of the expats in the thread are right wing, and it's still not a coup. It'd absolutely a coup lmao
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Feb 16, 2019 20:02
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Yeah honestly you are better off arguing that the coup is justified than arguing that it isn't one.
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Feb 16, 2019 20:05
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Pedro De Heredia posted:There is nothing 'ironic' about it. Part of the point of packing the court is removing its legitimacy and independence and trading it for power. It's a good trade, but it's a trade; you don't get to keep both. Funny how the coup-supporters are brave enough to outright say “the government loses legitimacy when they support people I don’t”. “The Venezuelan Supreme Court is illegitimate because they don’t support the Baby Smasher’s Golden Boy!”
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Feb 16, 2019 20:05
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uninterrupted posted:“The Venezuelan Supreme Court is illegitimate because they don’t support the Baby Smasher’s Golden Boy!” Are you having a heated posting moment?
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Feb 16, 2019 20:06
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A Russian troll farm posted:What if we could get noted humanitarian Curtis LeMay on this Venezuela issue? Is he still around? He'd just bomb all of Venezuela with potato seeds. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 16, 2019 20:09
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Pedro De Heredia posted:Are you having a heated posting moment? no, nuclear takes is his gimmick, and you people keep biting lmao
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Feb 16, 2019 20:09
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since we're apparently at this point on the carousel again, maybe someone should make an effortpost that includes the supreme court sequence of events oh, right Chuck Boone posted:The PSUV had lost a battle, but the war had yet to be fought. The party gave away its strategy for counteracting the opposition controlling the National Assembly even before the new legislature was sworn in. On December 23, 2015, in what would become the latest parliamentary session held by the PSUV-controlled National Assembly, the party appointed 13 new magistrates (and 20 substitute magistrates) to the Tribunal Supremo de Justicia (TSJ), Venezuela's top court. The magistrates, who would later be known as the "magistrados express", were appointed in a rush without any of the vetting process required by law. The PSUV even threatened and extorted magistrates into resigning early so that it could re-fill their seats before the opposition took control of the legislature.
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Feb 16, 2019 20:11
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Lmao literally all of that happened with the kavanaugh confirmation process
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Feb 16, 2019 20:13
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GreyjoyBastard posted:since we're apparently at this point on the carousel again, maybe someone should make an effortpost that includes the supreme court sequence of events Lol the first source is a dead link and the second one is basically rich Venezuelan freedomeagle.facebook. Ffs read any other article on there.
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Feb 16, 2019 20:16
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Jose posted:It'd absolutely a coup lmao Wouldn't it just be an attempted coup since he never gained power? Pretty poo poo coup anyways as he didnt even start a military action against the government, kinda the whole reason a coup would work. Just declaring yourself president is more a michael scott than a coup.
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Feb 16, 2019 22:35
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