Fancy_Breakfast posted:

I've heard some crazy stories about Hatzollah EMS and the things they get away with. They've definitely done some OSHA stuff.
I can't find it right now but I remember seeing a hatzollah ems SUV driving at high speeds erratically through the city with like 4 guys standing on the side steps of it hanging on for dear life trying to look all tacti-cool.
Probably responding to a non urgent call too. Wackers man.

Ornamental Dingbat posted:

Foone did a good thread about normalization of deviance and the Challenger disaster

https://twitter.com/Foone/status/1095550629919961088?s=20

Powershift posted:

Ornamental Dingbat posted:

There have been numerous legal disputes presented against the modern day wires but the eruv committees usually don't have a problem getting competent legal council and generally win the cases.

Communist Zombie posted:

What do you mean by legal disputes here because I can't imagine what could be the problems outside of zoning/building codes.

Also does the wire have to be above ground because then calling LHC an eruv seems like a good idea.

quote:

In the United States, legal controversies about an eruv in a community often focus on provisions of the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, which addresses relations between government and religion. Opponents of an eruv typically take the view that the government participation in the eruv process necessary to approve its construction violates the First Amendment's prohibition of governmental establishment of religion. Proponents take the view that it constitutes a constitutionally permissible accommodation of religion rather than an establishment. Proponents have also argued that the Free Exercise Clause affirmatively requires government acceptance, on the grounds that government interference with or failure to accommodate an eruv constitutes discrimination against or inhibition of the constitutional right of free exercise of religion.[29]

In the 2002 decision on Tenafly Eruv Association v. Borough of Tenafly (309 F.3d 144), Judge Ambro, writing for the United States Third Circuit Court of Appeals, held that Eruv Association members had no intrinsic right to add attachments to telephone poles on Borough property and that the borough, if it wished, could enact a general, neutral ordinance against all attachments to utility poles that could be enforced against the eruv. However, Judge Ambro held that in this case, the Borough had not enacted a genuinely general or neutral ordinance because it permitted a wide variety of attachments to utility poles for non-religious purposes, including posting signs and other items. Because it permitted attachments to utility poles for secular purposes, the court held, it could not selectively exclude attachments for religious purposes.[30] The United States Supreme Court declined to hear the case. It was subsequently cited as precedent by a number of other federal courts deciding disputes between an eruv association and a local government.

In Outremont, a neighbourhood in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, the city adopted a policy of removing eruv wires. In 2001, the Hasidic community obtained an injunction preventing such action by the city authorities.[31]


Original white PVC pipe, attached to a utility pole in Mahwah, New Jersey, serving as a lechi to demarcate an eruv
Between 2015 and 2018, there were ongoing issues with eruv markings extended on utility poles in a section of New Jersey. The adjoining municipalities of Mahwah, Upper Saddle River and Montvale, all border the state line[32] on the other side of which is Rockland County, New York, where there are large communities of Orthodox Jews. After some eruvin were extended into Bergen County, allowing travel in the area, the municipalities took action in 2017 to dismantle the lechi markings. The matter was taken to court, and in January 2018 the presiding judge in the lawsuits made it clear he felt the municipalities did not have a strong case, and urged them to settle. The three municipalities have settled with the eruv association, allowing the eruv borders to remain in New Jersey, reimbursed the association’s legal fees, received agreement from the association to adjust the color of the lechi mounted on local utility poles, and agreed to work through a few remaining route details.

In general, state law has dealt with whether and to what extent government can permit or assist the erection and maintenance of boundary demarcations on public property. It has not dealt with the nature of the aggregation agreement or recognized an eruv as having legal effect or as implementing a meaningful change in real property ownership or tenancy. For purposes of accident liability, trespass, insurance, and other secular matters occurring on Shabbat, State law treats the properties within an eruv as continuing to be separate parcels.

Ugly In The Morning posted:

I was behind on on the Tappan Zee Bridge transporting someone to Westchester medical and there was a Hatzollah ambulance that blew by me with lights and sirens doing at least 110- on the TZ, that’s madness. Even at normal speeds you’d be going up and down in your seat, at a buck ten the guys in the back (all eight of them) had to be getting launched.

I saw them at the hospital and asked what they brought in- it was a dude with a temperature of 101. Not something that needed an ambulance, let alone going code at that speed.

E:they have a really bad reputation in the Hudson valley for their insane driving and overloaded ambulances. They’re a major hazard on the roads.

Fancy_Breakfast posted:

110 is insane for what sounds like a bumpy road. Most I've done is100mph (160km/h) on auto bahn like freeway with good conditions and even then it was Jesus take the wheel territory for a large heavy vehicle.

Having like 8 people respond in a single vehicle is total BS too. It must be comical watching them fall over one another..
I find even having a third person on the crew to be a nuisance unless it's a life threatening call.

But the people who call them probably love it.

Sagebrush posted:

the general rabbinical agreement is that our big brains are a gift from god, so he obviously intended for us to use them, and it pleases god when we use our big brains to come up with clever interpretations of his laws.

it's actually quite a nice sentiment i think. the same logic is why judaism is generally very sex-positive (why would he make it so fun if you weren't supposed to do it??) and open-minded on many topics.

Moist von Lipwig posted:

Yeah exactly. You're literally supposed to lay around eating good food and reading and loving on the Sabbath. I'll take that over Catholicism any day.

Ornamental Dingbat posted:

Foone did a good thread about normalization of deviance and the Challenger disaster

https://twitter.com/Foone/status/1095550629919961088?s=20

endlessmonotony posted:

It does highlight the difference between doing things properly and doing them the way I do them.

Every little bit of gear I have - and me - is always ran at well over sustainable levels. Ending up with solder on my fingers or overvolting hardware to make it a hazard to me and it alike is perfectly ordinary. Or just assembling something where the expected safety measures just don't exist.

I couldn't live any other way and I'm going to dodge the consequences forever.

But you put anyone else in my seat, and my tools are significant hazards, my work methods are a mess where comprehending them takes longer than reinventing them, and trying to copy what I do the way I do is completely unsustainable.

But I know my tools in extreme depth, have knowledge how to fix them when they inevitably fail, and put nobody in danger.

Most of this thread is images of people doing things the way I do. But there's a fairly big difference between knowingly doing something that should fail and doesn't because you know you'll never pay the price for it, and the way people grow comfortable with doing things in a way that doesn't seem all that bad while being just outside the limits of safety.

"Either actually play it safe or embrace the fuckup you are and go well beyond reasonable."

Is that actually good advice?

Bloody Hedgehog posted:

EKDS5k posted:

You are the reason I have a safety officer breathing down my neck trying to micromanage every little thing I do.

Ugly In The Morning posted:

Holy Christ please do not come to my job site. Though you’d probably get the boot on a life-critical safety violation in like five minutes from the sound of things.

Sagebrush posted:

the general rabbinical agreement is that our big brains are a gift from god, so he obviously intended for us to use them, and it pleases god when we use our big brains to come up with clever interpretations of his laws.

it's actually quite a nice sentiment i think. the same logic is why judaism is generally very sex-positive (why would he make it so fun if you weren't supposed to do it??) and open-minded on many topics.

endlessmonotony posted:

What I'm wondering is if being obviously unsafe is actually not all that unsafe

endlessmonotony posted:

It does highlight the difference between doing things properly and doing them the way I do them.

Every little bit of gear I have - and me - is always ran at well over sustainable levels. Ending up with solder on my fingers or overvolting hardware to make it a hazard to me and it alike is perfectly ordinary. Or just assembling something where the expected safety measures just don't exist.

I couldn't live any other way and I'm going to dodge the consequences forever.

But you put anyone else in my seat, and my tools are significant hazards, my work methods are a mess where comprehending them takes longer than reinventing them, and trying to copy what I do the way I do is completely unsustainable.

But I know my tools in extreme depth, have knowledge how to fix them when they inevitably fail, and put nobody in danger.

Most of this thread is images of people doing things the way I do. But there's a fairly big difference between knowingly doing something that should fail and doesn't because you know you'll never pay the price for it, and the way people grow comfortable with doing things in a way that doesn't seem all that bad while being just outside the limits of safety.

"Either actually play it safe or embrace the fuckup you are and go well beyond reasonable."

Is that actually good advice?

Endman posted:

What

Ugly In The Morning posted:

In the Talmud there’s a story about some rabbis out-ruleslawyering god, who, IIRC, thinks it’s hilarious.

Ornamental Dingbat posted:

Foone did a good thread about normalization of deviance and the Challenger disaster

https://twitter.com/Foone/status/1095550629919961088?s=20

endlessmonotony posted:

The question I asked is actually a sensible one - I'm wondering which is more dangerous, having a reckless disregard for safety, or having a false feeling of safety from being unsafe never having backfired yet.

endlessmonotony posted:

The question I asked is actually a sensible one - I'm wondering which is more dangerous, having a reckless disregard for safety, or having a false feeling of safety from being unsafe never having backfired yet.

quote:

But I know my tools in extreme depth, have knowledge how to fix them when they inevitably fail, and put nobody in danger.

Wingnut Ninja posted:

I'm not really seeing the distinction between these two. People often have a reckless disregard for safety because they have a false feeling of safety due to a lack of immediate consequences.


In aviation ORM this attitude is known as the "hotshot" personality type. Hotshots are good, and know they're good, and start to believe that safety rules don't need to apply to them. A classic example of this is Lt Col Arthur "Utter loving Assclown" Holland, who got away with pushing the limits repeatedly, right up until he flew a B-52 into the ground and took several other people with him. "Darker Shades of Blue", the case study on that crash, is required reading for many ORM/CRM discussions: http://gwclei.com/darker-shades-of-blue-a-case-study-of-failed-leadership/

Ultraklystron posted:

A variation of the notion that any computer science major that didn't learn about the Therac-25 disaster as a mandatory part of their coursework probably shouldn't be writing code professionally until they do. It's amazing how immediately dangerous bad code in certain applications can be.

ekuNNN posted:

https://i.imgur.com/JpcRKtC.gifv
https://www.nu.nl/263859/video/schip-raakt-man-op-haar-na-bij-tewaterlating-in-hoogezand.html

Google Translate posted:

Ship touches man after her at the launch in Hoogezand

A launch of a large ship in Hoogezand almost went wrong on Friday. A man was able to get out of the ship just in time when it began to move toward the water.

February 16, 2019 08:21