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ethanol posted:In my engineering courses I’ve seen the challenger mentioned In class an example probably 3 times. There was no explicitly failure analysis course but failure analysis is a huge part of several courses such as solid mechanics or statics or machine design. I Google “factor of safety” if you want to see how we are taught failure analysis. Essentially you are doubling or tripling your acceptable limits due to the material property unknowns or to compensate for your own assumptions. There was no explicit safety class except for the machine shop (you can’t use the shop without the osha safety course) but it is definitely a huge part of my education. I’ve probably done at least 12-20 Failure mode effects analysis inside my projects since I started and I’m about to finish. I’m by no means a safety expert but I’m shocked some other engineer students have said they saw zero safety stuff. Hell I did fake engineering (computer science w/ microelectronics) and we still did a course on fault tolerance and failure analysis. e: terrible post for a new page, also basically the same thing as the guy before me said better, here's some OSHA content:  Private Speech fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Feb 17, 2019 |
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Feb 17, 2019 13:24
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ethanol posted:In my engineering courses I’ve seen the challenger mentioned In class an example probably 3 times. The Challenger disaster was an analysis example for some of my behavior analysis courses.
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Feb 17, 2019 14:49
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CrazySalamander posted:He's probably drunkposting or trolling or both- I'm not sure of any other reason why he would post the OSHA attitude equivalent of going to the top of a mountain in a storm while wearing plate armor and cursing the gods in the OSHA thread. Two hours of sleep and right off a funeral. Angryposting, not drunk, but close enough. The lessons, as far as I see, are to not hire someone banned from operating heavy machinery to do any job where they could harm others, to not take safety advice from someone who has long since lost any real reason to care about their safety, and not to post when you're seriously drained.
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Feb 17, 2019 14:52
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I don't think it's that there is no safe engineering curriculum. It's kind of built into a modern curriculum, the things you learn generally have safety factors or safety thinking built in. But that's also a reason that gets deceptive. Yes, you learn statistics, and then get safety factors presented in terms of statistics. But do you really understand what 1/1000 years means versus 1/10000? Then ok, an incident happens. How do we figure if it's a big Bayesian deal or a little Bayesian deal. I don't know it's something you teach at an undergrad level because to understand, really understand, you get into a swampy mess of advanced statistics and some psychology. And with functional excellence maybe that's ok to have an expert on the subject who can direct and on the job train generalists but with the STEM shortage I feel like several someone's are going to get hung out to dry in a really tragic way with the level of safe design presented in an average undergrad.
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Feb 17, 2019 14:59
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jamal posted:Some of my field trips included mulholland's dam that failed and killed hundreds of people Am I reading this right that Mullholland was self-trained in engineering? Like, worked his way up from maintenance?
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Feb 17, 2019 15:12
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Pershing posted:Am I reading this right that Mullholland was self-trained in engineering? Like, worked his way up from maintenance? Yes.
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Feb 17, 2019 15:13
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zedprime posted:I don't think it's that there is no safe engineering curriculum. It's kind of built into a modern curriculum, the things you learn generally have safety factors or safety thinking built in. There’s truth to that. But it’s also the reason you can’t get a PE and sign drawings out of school without years of field experience. My professors highlighted the complexity of failures and the number of unknowns, assumptions and randomness in the reliability and failure equations available to us. There’s a responsibility at the government and professional level to specialize their engineers. To me saying a engineer should take “failure analysis” course is a bit like saying general psych 101 would be important for every psychologist. It’s not that narrow
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Feb 17, 2019 15:22
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Platystemon posted:Yes. The next time some libertarian is moaning about government licensure of professions I will cite the St. Francis Dam.
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Feb 17, 2019 15:25
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ethanol posted:There’s truth to that. But it’s also the reason you can’t get a PE and sign drawings out of school without years of field experience. My professors highlighted the complexity of failures and the number of unknowns, assumptions and randomness in the reliability and failure equations available to us. There’s a responsibility at the government and professional level to specialize their engineers. To me saying a engineer should take “failure analysis” course is a bit like saying general psych 101 would be important for every psychologist. It’s not that narrow More seriously it's just a check that you remember your formulas (with safety factors pre built in so no telling if you understand safe design still) after working N years with most states assuming that your position with engineer in the name is good enough experience if you're asking for a stamp. Then on top of that, state to state portability can be rough so you end up with a system where a company does all it's design internal across state lines and finds a local consultant to stamp the docs.
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Feb 17, 2019 15:42
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The next time someone suggests we need more engineers in government, remind them that Herbert Hoover was an engineer. Also, Google “Why are so many terrorists engineers?”
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Feb 17, 2019 15:48
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zedprime posted:I don't think it's that there is no safe engineering curriculum. It's kind of built into a modern curriculum, the things you learn generally have safety factors or safety thinking built in. In 4th year we took a probabilistic risk analysis course that went into stuff like that
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Feb 17, 2019 16:04
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What the gently caress is that a chart of? Why the gently caress is there no title nor context? argghh
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Feb 17, 2019 16:05
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zedprime posted:PE system is cool and good on paper but Grover was a PE. That’s probably fair I don’t really know the process
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Feb 17, 2019 16:12
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Serephina posted:What the gently caress is that a chart of? Why the gently caress is there no title nor context? argghh It’s the ratio of professors who are registered with the Democratic party to those who are registered with the Republican party in a small sample. Losing to geoscience by a factor of seventeen is pretty bad.
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Feb 17, 2019 16:24
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Platystemon posted:It’s the ratio of professors who are registered with the Democratic party to those who are registered with the Republican party in a small sample. I refuse to believe that 100% of the Anthropology faculty are registered Democrats. At least at my school, a good 30% of the department were full-on registered communists. (Not even DSA, straight-up old-school Communist Party USA members.)
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Feb 17, 2019 16:32
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I’m not going to lie: I, too, am suspicious of the methodology.
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Feb 17, 2019 16:33
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Platystemon posted:The next time someone suggests we need more engineers in government, remind them that Herbert Hoover was an engineer. Here's the source. I went searching for the graph's title: quote:Figure 1
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Feb 17, 2019 16:34
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LanceHunter posted:I refuse to believe that 100% of the Anthropology faculty are registered Democrats. At least at my school, a good 30% of the department were full-on registered communists. (Not even DSA, straight-up old-school Communist Party USA members.)
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Feb 17, 2019 16:35
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DrPossum posted:I would have thought safety would be a required engineering course where you might engineer something unsafe. I did a "computer ethics" course with my CS degree and we learned about this nightmare hellwheel, the Therac-25 Yeah, the Therac-25 is the gold standard of "double check your code, fucklers".
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Feb 17, 2019 16:53
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Splicer posted:It's a democrat to republican ratio. The communists aren't either democrats or republicans, so they're not on the ratio. 1.6 to 1 is a lot lower than many of the others but it's not super damning since it's still better than the 1 to 1 ratio in the general public. I'm actually kind of surprised chemistry and geoscience are so high because you'd think they'd be all gently caress yeah oil edit: or maybe it's just chemical engineers that like to guzzle the oil? iospace posted:Yeah, the Therac-25 is the gold standard of "double check your code, fucklers". Also maybe don't strip out hardware interlocks even if you think your software is perfect, because maybe you don't want to be counting nickels and dimes when speccing out something that shoots radiation into people BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Feb 17, 2019 |
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Feb 17, 2019 16:56
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The 70:1 ratio in religion is... Let's say difficult to believe. Even if the faculty aren't believers themselves.
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Feb 17, 2019 17:01
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Trabant posted:The 70:1 ratio in religion is... Let's say difficult to believe. Even if the faculty aren't believers themselves. The article that is the source of that graph is using a sample of 51 top ranked liberal arts colleges. I could see that greatly screwing the numbers.
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Feb 17, 2019 17:34
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Trabant posted:The 70:1 ratio in religion is... Let's say difficult to believe. Even if the faculty aren't believers themselves. A shitload of the religion faculty at my college (UConn) were Jewish, who tend to skew pretty dem. Our engineering department also had a mandatory Ethics class and failure analysis type stuff was a part of a lot of classes (statics and materials science come to mind, I swapped to poli sci after my sophomore year so I don’t know about the later stuff)
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Feb 17, 2019 18:12
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DrPossum posted:I would have thought safety would be a required engineering course where you might engineer something unsafe. I did a "computer ethics" course with my CS degree and we learned about this nightmare hellwheel, the Therac-25 I would've thought the same as an Ethics & Technology course was a prerequisite for any CS degree at the school I went to. However, every time I've bought it up at work with a co-op student (paid intern) who wasn't in the same CS program, I received blank stares, at which point I send them the Wikipedia link. I'll say, it never fails to change how seriously they take their work, and we're not building anything close to so immediately dangerous. Ultraklystron fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Feb 17, 2019 |
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Feb 17, 2019 19:28
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Platystemon posted:The next time someone suggests we need more engineers in government, remind them that Herbert Hoover was an engineer. Lol I have an anthropology degree.
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Feb 17, 2019 19:51
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Ultraklystron posted:I would've thought the same as an Ethics & Technology course was a prerequisite for any CS degree at the school I went to. However, every time I've bought it up at work with a co-op student (paid intern) who wasn't in the same CS program, I received blank stares, at which point I send them the Wikipedia link. I'll say, it never fails to change how seriously they take their work, and we're not building anything close to so immediately dangerous. Did we attend the same co-op based school closely tied to the auto industry?
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Feb 17, 2019 20:12
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LifeSunDeath posted:Lol I have an anthropology degree. as an anthropologist, do you think the human race is good, or bad?
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Feb 17, 2019 20:48
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Mozi posted:as an anthropologist, do you think the human race is good, or bad? there is no objective good/bad. some cultures are more interesting than others imo but it doesn't make them better.
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Feb 17, 2019 20:51
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Mozi posted:as an anthropologist, do you think the human race is good, or bad? The human race created furries but it also created short people so it's impossible to say whether it's bad or bad.
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Feb 17, 2019 20:53
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LifeSunDeath posted:there is no objective good/bad. some cultures are more interesting than others imo but it doesn't make them better. but is it passable or at least tolerable
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Feb 17, 2019 20:56
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Nenonen posted:but is it passable or at least tolerable Not sure what you mean.
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Feb 17, 2019 21:01
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lol asking an anthropologist about a homogenized human race's worth without considering geographic, sexual, gender, social, economic and personal boundaries. you wacky
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Feb 17, 2019 21:13
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it was not a serious question
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Feb 17, 2019 21:14
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i would bill you for my wasted time flying mobile eyeball but i am not an anthropologist.
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Feb 17, 2019 21:15
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sneakyfrog posted:i would bill you for my wasted time flying mobile eyeball but i am not an anthropologist. turns out our time is not valuable at all, I have no qualms with that, it's life.
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Feb 17, 2019 21:17
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I have a history degree and humanity is 100% bad
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Feb 17, 2019 22:01
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Endman posted:I have a history degree and humanity is 100% bad Please take a look at extreme poverty and child mortality statistics. Humanity is improving. I would suggest reading Hans Rosling’s Factfulness or at least watching one of his TED talks.
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Feb 17, 2019 22:08
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Endman posted:I have a history degree and humanity is 100% bad Likely your job prospects too 
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Feb 17, 2019 22:12
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CrazySalamander posted:Please take a look at extreme poverty and child mortality statistics. Humanity is improving. I would suggest reading Hans Rosling’s Factfulness or at least watching one of his TED talks. Nah, still bad sorry Please accept Forlift Driver Klaus, which I'm sure we've all seen before but need to see again, as recompense for this derail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oB6DN5dYWo
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Feb 17, 2019 22:25
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BattleMaster posted:Does this guy think that universities haven't thought of that? I had a class that was a semester just on Challenger, Chernobyl, and Exxon Valdez and the techniques used to analyze the things that led to them happening
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Feb 17, 2019 22:38
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