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Squalid posted:Is there a reason the cities are tightly clustered in the middle? The Yellow River was essentially the mother of Chinese civilization. Also add topography to that and lots of it is clustered around where the Yellow River emerges from the mountainous areas and enters into the North Chinese Plain.
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Feb 15, 2019 03:36
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Two big reasons. 1. like Grape said it was simply the demographic and economic heart of China, basically from its earliest history until the Han (although cities themselves only really flourished from the later parts of the Spring and Autumn, the period just prior to this). 2. a bit related to 1., the region was at basically the crossroads between all of the most powerful states--Wei, Qin, Qi, and Chu, and so was where most of the fighting took place:  in addition to the normal economic reasons, cities during the Warring States were placed and built for their strategic value. Sometimes political (like the Qin moving their capital to a position where they were within striking distance of everybody) but also usually to help solidify borders and stuff. That region is wide open, so they relied on cities to do that a lot. There are better maps for this I can't find right now but this showcases it a bit:  Some other regions were demographically/culturally super important too (the Wei River Valley in the West beyond those mountains to the west, the corridor of lakes near those mountains at Shandong in the east) but they had other geography to secure their locations that the central region didn't. As for the other flat regions to the north and southeast, they were still marginal land at this point--the cities map illustrates that pretty well if you look at the line that shoots straight north to Beijing while barely deviating at all. To its east the land was still mostly just marshy and worthless. That'd change over this period and in the Han though and as land got cleared populations moved a bunch.
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Feb 15, 2019 03:57
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Grape posted:The Yellow River was essentially the mother of Chinese civilization. mhmmm doesn't really look like they're on the Yellow river, the really tight cluster around what i think is the city of Kaifeng is close but I think even that is several kilometers away and on a tributary or parallel river. I agree though that it seems to be kinda where the river enters the plain, not sure why that would be important though. edit: the need for defense in the middle of a contested region also makes sense, as does the suggestion that it just happens that area was the historical nexus of the Han polity and civilization. Squalid fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 03:57
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Squalid posted:mhmmm doesn't really look like they're on the Yellow river, the really tight cluster around the city of Kaifeng is close but I think even that is several kilometers away and on a tributary or parallel river. I agree though that it seems to be kinda where the river enters the plain, not sure why that would be important though. A lot of human traffic would be forced into that sort of choke point by the lay of the land, which would help to build up the settlements around there even further. Like Koramei mentioned it's a sort of crossroads.
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Feb 15, 2019 04:03
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Squalid posted:mhmmm doesn't really look like they're on the Yellow river, the really tight cluster around what i think is the city of Kaifeng is close but I think even that is several kilometers away and on a tributary or parallel river. I agree though that it seems to be kinda where the river enters the plain, not sure why that would be important though. It's not just the Yellow River. The northmost tributary of the Yangtze you see there, the Han River, was also hugely important both for irrigation and passage between north/south (and the south, despite not being as attested in later Chinese sources and so kinda getting the shaft in history, was likely just as rich as the north). With the exception of some treacherous routes to the far east and west via Sichuan, it was basically the only link between north and south China. Also to reiterate, China's land was not as developed as it'd later be. That's basically the space for a significant number of cities, basically everywhere else was either mountains, forest, marsh, or the much smaller valley regions (that do have a lot of cities in them on that map).
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Feb 15, 2019 04:12
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Actually with that said, I'd have thought there'd be more around Shandong still, that was the other very rich and populous part and it was also pretty contested (by less significant states though, so maybe they didn't have the resources to develop so many cities). Here's a map from a couple of hundred years later where you can see that a bit: (Han Dynasty census figures ~1 CE) Those regions around modern Hebei/Beijing would have (mostly--there was still some stuff before) gotten developed in the intervening centuries, but the area around Lu/Dongping/Pengcheng had been wealthy all the way back to the Western Zhou from 1000 BCE. e: I've been reading intently about the Warring States period for the past year but know next to nothing about later Chinese history so someone else will have to cover these, but here's some more population maps from the same book (Richard von Glahn's The Economic History of China) as the first few maps I posted:  Population of Tang China, 742  Population of Northern Song China, 1102 Richard von Glahn posted:In the course of the An Lushan rebellion, whose aftershocks reverberated for decades afterward, millions of families in North China had been uprooted. Many migrated to the south, settling in Jiangnan and the still largely frontier areas of the Middle Yangzi River valley. This shift in population, a dramatic acceleration of a trend underway since the steppe nomad invasions of the fourth century, marked a key turning point in the demography of China. Before the An Lushan rebellion approximately two-thirds of the population lived in the dryland farming regions of North China, with the densest concentration in the Central Plain heartland. By 1100 that ratio had reversed: two-thirds of the population inhabited the rice-growing regions of South China, and only one-third lived in the north, a distribution that has remained roughly constant down to the present Crazy difference Koramei fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 04:23
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Reading about the An Lushan war really underscores the lesson that the worst war is a civil war, and the worst kind is the one that swings back and forth and just goes on and on for years and years.
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Feb 15, 2019 05:27
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Koramei posted:It's not just the Yellow River. The northmost tributary of the Yangtze you see there, the Han River, was also hugely important both for irrigation and passage between north/south (and the south, despite not being as attested in later Chinese sources and so kinda getting the shaft in history, was likely just as rich as the north). With the exception of some treacherous routes to the far east and west via Sichuan, it was basically the only link between north and south China. The map could also be showing the modern course of the river for reference, or a rough estimate of its course at the time. It was so long ago and that river's course shifts a lot.
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Feb 15, 2019 07:42
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All declassified domestic (including Puerto Rico and Guam) military installations of the US Armed Forces. I dunno how comprehensive this really is, here's the map if you want to take a closer look. Dark Blue = Navy (I guess this also covers the Coast Guard?) Light Blue = Air Force Green = Army Red = Marines Yellow = Pentagon  And here's just the lower 48:  Interesting to see how e.g. the Marines are still mostly clustered along the coast or at least somewhat near to it, with the exception of Kansas City for some reason (this is labelled as an MCSPTACT, anyone know what that is supposed to be?) e: and what's up with those navy installations that are hundreds or even thousands of miles inland? System Metternich fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 14:37
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The Navy base in Nevada is top gun school and a live fire bombing range. I expect a fair amount of the naval aviation stations are inland. I've done work at a navy textile research lab inland that was set up with flags and guards like a real base, despite uniform prototypes being the only secret. Which honestly is a waste - the traditional neckerchief sailor suit is already the perfect warfighting garment.
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Feb 15, 2019 14:51
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System Metternich posted:All declassified domestic (including Puerto Rico and Guam) military installations of the US Armed Forces. I dunno how comprehensive this really is, here's the map if you want to take a closer look. MCSPTACT means Marine Corps Support Activity apparently
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Feb 15, 2019 15:09
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System Metternich posted:e: and what's up with those navy installations that are hundreds or even thousands of miles inland? The base in Indiana is the Navy Surface Warfare Center, which mostly handles logistics, and weapons procurement and testing. The one on Tennessee is Naval Support Activity Mid-South, which mostly is in charge of personnel and human resources. The one in West Virginia is now closed (and is being turned into a veterans hospital), but it was a joint Navy/NSA listening post and communications monitoring center that recorded international communications coming into the east coast. The one in Fort Worth, Texas is a Navy reserve airbase.
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Feb 15, 2019 15:44
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WTF is going on in Alabama?
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Feb 15, 2019 18:39
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A whole bunch of tiny dirt air strips
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Feb 15, 2019 18:47
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Orange Devil posted:WTF is going on in Alabama? the data is kind of old so some of those bases are closed, but the navy has a couple of training airbases on the gulf coast and where you have training airbases you tend to have a bunch of outlying airstrips to use for practice and in case a trainee pilot has a problem and needs to land quickly. these airstrips are little more than a paved runway or two and maybe some kind of office building, definitely no hangars or any support infrastructure a lot of military aviation training happens in the southeast united states because the climate is good and land is super cheap
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Feb 15, 2019 19:00
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poking around some more many of those pins on the map refer to facilities that were closed over a decade ago, or are mixed military/civilian facilities. for example, st. louis international airport is on the map because the missouri air national guard flies out of there
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Feb 15, 2019 19:13
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Some of them aren't quite right either, the one that looks like it's in Detroit should be Tank and Automotive Command in Warren but the one just north of that should be Selfridge Air National Guard Base and so should be blue. Also I like how you can just see the sliver of green that is Fort Custer in Battle Creek hidden behind the Battle Creek ANGB, which is just a part of W.K. Kellog Airport and isn't nearly as big a facility as Custer. Also, the UP stands alone, free from US military occupation, at least since KI Sawyer and Kincheloe closed down.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:55
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Wasn't there a deep lake in Idaho where they did submarine stuff?
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Feb 15, 2019 21:23
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Feb 17, 2019 22:36
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 https://easyzoom.com/imageaccess/ec482e04c2b240d4969c14156bb6836f
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Feb 17, 2019 22:48
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No tar? 
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Feb 17, 2019 22:51
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HDI, I assume. Interesting to see it at the subnational level like that. One of the few countries that really surprise me is Japan, I'd have assumed it'd be dark blue in its entirety.
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Feb 17, 2019 23:00
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It's pretty sad that most of Europe is only as developed as West Virginia or the Deep South.
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Feb 17, 2019 23:17
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Mantis42 posted:It's pretty sad that most of Europe is only as developed as West Virginia or the Deep South. Actually it's good since development per the existing model is destroying the biosphere and we need to reverse it asap
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Feb 17, 2019 23:21
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Mantis42 posted:It's pretty sad that most of Europe is only as developed as West Virginia or the Deep South. Or Russia, for that matter. Also Japan and best Korea don't really make sense for HDI really.
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Feb 17, 2019 23:23
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According to your logic we should emulate China to improve our environmental footprint?
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Feb 17, 2019 23:25
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Mantis42 posted:It's pretty sad that most of Europe is only as developed as West Virginia or the Deep South. Alternatively, it's pretty sad that the US has a bunch of states that are only as developed as Russia.
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Feb 17, 2019 23:27
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Mantis42 posted:It's pretty sad that most of Europe is only as developed as West Virginia or the Deep South. It's probably the GDP/c that does it, which makes up 1/3 of the HDI value.
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Feb 17, 2019 23:30
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Here's an alternate subnational units based HDI map from last year: This map's author noted that Western Australia's outlier status is due to the very small population, mostly concentrated around Perth, getting a GDP per capita boost from the vast amounts of relatively low worker mines that do tons of business in the rest of the state. They also provided a list of the top 20 rated regions: 0,972: 🇦🇺 Australian Capital Territory 0,969: 🇨🇭 Zurich 0,964: 🇩🇪 Hamburg 0,959: 🇳🇴 Oslo og Akershus 0,958: 🇳🇴 Vestlandet 0,957: 🇦🇺 Western Australia 0,955: 🇬🇧 London 0,955: 🇺🇸 Massachusetts 0,952: 🇳🇴 Trondelag 0,952: 🇺🇸 Connecticut 0,951: 🇮🇪 Dublin 0,947: 🇳🇴 Agder og Rogaland 0,946: 🇺🇸 District of Columbia 0,946: 🇺🇸 North Dakota 0,945: 🇨🇿 Praha 0,945: 🇩🇰 Hovedstaden 0,945: 🇺🇸 Minnesota 0,944: 🇫🇷 Ile de France 0,944: 🇳🇿 Wellington 0,943: 🇳🇱 Utrecht They of course noted that a lot of this would look different if things were to be broken down further in certain countries where the immediate subdivisions are too big to capture individual city regions. Of course doing a fair comparison gets even trickier then as some city-regions in this version would need to be broken down much further. fishmech fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Feb 17, 2019 |
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Feb 17, 2019 23:40
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Yeah, I think that's one of the problems with the subnational division, as interesting as it is - GDP plays an important role, which means that the population centers with a high concentration of economic activity will be a darker shade, even if the generated wealth doesn't necessarily flow back to the people who live there. Many of the cities in question such as London and Brussels have serious problems with issues like poverty, crime, and urban decay.
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Feb 17, 2019 23:53
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This is insanely cool.
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Feb 18, 2019 00:47
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Mantis42 posted:It's pretty sad that most of Europe is only as developed as West Virginia or the Deep South. Where did you find that map, because that seems heavily suspect in lots of ways. Did the HDI people release this? fishmech posted:0,955: 🇺🇸 Massachusetts  Phlegmish posted:Yeah, I think that's one of the problems with the subnational division, as interesting as it is - GDP plays an important role, which means that the population centers with a high concentration of economic activity will be a darker shade, even if the generated wealth doesn't necessarily flow back to the people who live there. Many of the cities in question such as London and Brussels have serious problems with issues like poverty, crime, and urban decay. Is it just the economic activity? Or also the pay that follows people home. CT being so enormously high in the second map doesn't seem explainable by just what we have here. There is HUGE wealth in the state, but lots of it comes from people who go to work in NYC. So their activity is over state borders... otherwise I don't get how we can be so absurdly high. Grape fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 03:35
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Ras Het posted:Actually it's good since development per the existing model is destroying the biosphere and we need to reverse it asap Emptyquote.
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Feb 18, 2019 07:16
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https://twitter.com/esthermcvey1/status/1097449128504819713 That’s quite the map, Esther.
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Feb 18, 2019 12:27
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does that train picture in the background have a giant watermark on it?
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Feb 18, 2019 12:36
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A watermark that reads Adobe Stock no less.
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Feb 18, 2019 15:34
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Adobe Rolling Stock
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Feb 18, 2019 16:24
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northern england
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Feb 18, 2019 16:28
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Hainaut and London are like the little dots of the opposite color in the yin-yang symbol. ☯ Edit: actual map of HS2:  Kinda hosed up that the UK doesn't have high speed rail yet. Except for the tiny bit between the Channel Tunnel and London. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 17:19
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Hainaut is poor for exactly the same reason that a lot of those Northern English places are - post-industrial decay. Thatcher was a piece of poo poo, but I think that particular outcome was hard to prevent. Of course the Brits are rather unique in that they're not content with merely wrecking their industrial base, they've also decided to YOLO Brexit their way into ruining their service economy
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Feb 18, 2019 18:39
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