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Gozinbulx posted:It doesn't matter that the guy is with Press TV or that its a PR trip funded by the Venezuelan government (though I suspect all the pro-Maduro posters in this thread would not be so charitable as this), what matters is that he is clearly at a private supermarket exempt from price controls and that literally 99% of the country cannot buy anything in that store. That or it is completely staged. Maoist China did propaganda tours like that with staged markets to show off to foreigners how well off they had it. I think North Korea still does the same. Considering that it is obviously pro-regime propaganda that's what I'm leaning towards.
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Feb 18, 2019 17:45
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DoctorStrangelove posted:That or it is completely staged. Maoist China did propaganda tours like that with staged markets to show off to foreigners how well off they had it. I think North Korea still does the same. Considering that it is obviously pro-regime propaganda that's what I'm leaning towards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDu7bXqx8Ig&t=97s indeed, far from unprecedented
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Feb 18, 2019 17:52
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just came here to say recently spent some time in colombia for 3 weeks, and you can easily pick the venezuelans out from the crowd. there are many venezuelans living on the street, of course, and they are in a really bad situation, but even the venezuelans who have managed to find work, say in food service or a retail job, are extremely gaunt. all of them look like they just came out of a famine and its very difficult to see firsthand. local discourse by colombians old enough to remember when cartel and paramilitary violence created a reverse refugee crisis, where millions of colombians fled to venezuela, was that most colombians felt a great deal of sympathy and a debt to venezuelans, that they needed to take them in and do what they can. but there are a ton of venezuelan refugees there. far more than colombia can handle. Bellum fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 17:56
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDu7bXqx8Ig&t=97s Whoa so it's good then?!?
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Feb 18, 2019 18:12
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Bip Roberts posted:Whoa so it's good then?!? just a little something to keep in mind for your next daily appointed ration of being told we'll be greeted as liberators.
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Feb 18, 2019 18:15
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Bip Roberts posted:Whoa so it's good then?!? In all likelihood the truth is probably somewhere in the middle when it comes to these kinds of things.
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Feb 18, 2019 18:17
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:just a little something to keep in mind for your next daily appointed ration of being told we'll be greeted as liberators. Good to hear that per you Madero is as good as 2004 vintage Paul Bremer.
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Feb 18, 2019 18:22
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Bip Roberts posted:Good to hear that per you Madero is as good as 2004 vintage Paul Bremer. manages to clear that lowest of all possible bars, by not openly signing off on ethnic cleansing in the name of preserving his personal power. man, can you imagine how awful someone would have to be to come off as worse than that?
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Feb 18, 2019 18:26
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:manages to clear that lowest of all possible bars, by not openly signing off on ethnic cleansing in the name of preserving his personal power. man, can you imagine how awful someone would have to be to come off as worse than that? "Noun! Verb! Elliot Abrams!"
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Feb 18, 2019 18:49
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:the truth is probably somewhere in the middle
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Feb 18, 2019 18:52
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I think he meant it as a joke but who knows.
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Feb 18, 2019 18:56
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Rust Martialis posted:"Noun! Verb! Elliot Abrams!"
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Feb 18, 2019 19:05
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Can you explain why you think concern about the involvement of a notorious career war criminal is worthy of mockery? they, like most pro-coup posters itt, agree with the war criminal that you can't make a democracy without braking a few eggs* *child skulls
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Feb 18, 2019 19:10
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Because he says literally nothing but it and offers nothing else besides fearmongering about Elliot Abrams. Not to say it isn't a black mark he's involved but there's bigger ongoing concerns like the millions of starving people in Venezuela right now rather than trying to fortune tell the future. Of course I'm sure people will now try to blame the utter collapse of the agriculture sector due to stringent price ceilings on the US now I'm sure or even deny it despite the multiple reports on it.
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Feb 18, 2019 19:10
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ChaseSP posted:Because he says literally nothing but it and offers nothing else besides fearmongering about Elliot Abrams. Not to say it isn't a black mark he's involved but there's bigger ongoing concerns like the millions of starving people in Venezuela right now rather than trying to fortune tell the future. You realize this argument basically justifies every single atrocity the USA has done? "Well we had good intent who could have foreseen it would be a disaster?" lol at the notion that the USA gives a poo poo about those people by the way. After they privatize they'll call it a good job and go home. By the way Nicaragua's GDP per capita is an eighth of Venezuela's. Black mark = children's heads smashed with sledgehammers lol Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 19:23
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For those that believe mr.supermarket sweep and believe its not dire in Venezuela, when we have mass amounts of refugees leaving the country from Venezuela, should they be denied at borders and told to return, or should they be accepted and helped in the new country they arrive?
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Feb 18, 2019 19:25
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This framing of the question is erroneous / false dichotomy. There's more than one way to help those people, that one way being USA backed regime change. It's not either people continue starving or the CIA gets its way.
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Feb 18, 2019 19:26
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Moridin920 posted:This framing of the question is erroneous / false dichotomy. There's more than one way to help those people, that one way being USA backed regime change. It's not either people continue starving or the CIA gets its way. Im not talking about USA intervention. We get it, that can end badly. Either you believe its a serious crisis in country or not. If you think western media is lying and they are in fact healthy and well fed, then why are the fleeing the country en masse?
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Feb 18, 2019 19:35
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I'm sure as hell not advocating for a military intervention in Venezuela nor anything along those lines. But supporting Gauido sure as hell isn't that for the present moment unless the PSUV just starts to unilaterally arrest and imprison the National Assembly. If the decision comes to military intervention or allowing the PSUV I will very much sit out of that horrible decision of which to support. Also previous coups in Latin America has involved the military actively taking place in it, which is unlikely to happen in Venezeula due to the higher branch being much better off being loyal to the PSUV with the head of the National Guard General Manuel Quevado being named President of the PDVSA as well as the Oil and Gas ministry, as well as other army leaders being in other positions of power in the civilian government. ChaseSP fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 19:38
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https://twitter.com/woodruffbets/status/1097571416151674881
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Feb 18, 2019 20:43
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This should be interesting.
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Feb 18, 2019 20:53
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Bob le Moche posted:In the socialist dictatorship of Venezuela, people are so oppressed they don't even have the freedom to choose between coke and pepsi, there is only coke Are you guys seriously believing that there is no famine in Venezuela? Really? Its pretty amazing how millions of refugees and tons of news reports about how hard it is to get food in Venezuela are considered fake news.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:21
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Gozinbulx posted:This should be interesting. extremely so. who wants some more domestic american politics chat! there is a reemerging strain of american conservatism that is opposed to american adventures abroad not because of the broken nations, starving peoples, and mass graves we leave in our wake- those parts they're huge fans of- but because empire leads invariably to race-mixing. once upon a time the neocons had taught these people a new racial paradigm whereby all peoples were one, in their subservience to WASPs who went to an Ivy League School and owned stock in Halliburton. after the bloody collapse of their Iraqi adventure, they've got very little movement credibility left. part of that old neocon script for justifying American military intervention demands that no, really, we're acting on behalf of human rights. so of course we'll allow more of your people to escape to the US. because if we didn't, it would be agonizingly transparent to all involved parties that this was about american hegemony first and any benefit to the locals was considered a regrettable side-effect. this plays extremely poorly with Team Build The Wall. the way that contradiction gets resolved will be interesting to watch.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:27
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:part of that old neocon script for justifying American military intervention demands that no, really, we're acting on behalf of human rights. so of course we'll allow more of your people to escape to the US. because if we didn't, it would be agonizingly transparent to all involved parties that this was about american hegemony first and any benefit to the locals was considered a regrettable side-effect. Don't forget that "exiles" are the biggest cheerleaders for spending American lives and money overseas in colonial adventures. Under the old logic this was justifiable for reasons like you said, but increasingly people are getting fed up with being asked to fight wars on behalf of a half dozen or more governments-in-exile when most Americans don't even have $500 in the bank for an emergency.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:34
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Have any of you dirty yankee imperialists ever taken into considering that maybe food and medicine is bad?
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Feb 18, 2019 22:43
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A couple of days ago, Richard Branson announced that he wants to raise $100 million for the humanitarian effort. He's putting on a Venezuela Aid Live concert in Cucuta on February 22, the day before the humanitarian aid warehoused there for about a month now is scheduled to be delivered. https://twitter.com/richardbranson/status/1096401760476909568 Earlier today, Minister of Communication Jorge Rodriguez announced that Maduro is putting on his own concert that same day in near the Simon Bolivar international bridge, which is the other bridge that connects Cucuta to Venezuela. Rodriguez said that they're going to bring 20,000 food boxes as well as medical supplies to give away to the people of Cucuta. No, I am not joking. Yes, he did say that. A big part of the regime's propaganda is the lie that conditions in Colombia are as bad or worse than in Venezuela, so this fits squarely within their cosmology. Pharohman777 posted:Its pretty amazing how millions of refugees and tons of news reports about how hard it is to get food in Venezuela are considered fake news. This is always sad to see, but never surprising. Name a tragedy and you'll find people denying the evidence because it lines up with some pre-determined opinion that they hold. The Sandy Hook parents were crisis actors (because really, the government wants to take away your guns); Obama's birth certificate is fake (because really, he's a secret Kenyan); jet fuel can't melt steel beams (because really, 9/11 was an inside job); there isn't a crisis in Venezuela (because really, the US is trying to take their oil). Critical thinking skills are rare, so people who peddle these kinds of lies will unfortunately never be without an audience.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:45
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Pharohman777 posted:Are you guys seriously believing that there is no famine in Venezuela? Really? Folks here like to pretend they are not reproducing US ideology but I can't think of anything more american than believing that having too few brands to choose from at your supermarket is an indicator that you need to get regime-changed. Edit: Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:part of that old neocon script for justifying American military intervention demands that no, really, we're acting on behalf of human rights. so of course we'll allow more of your people to escape to the US. because if we didn't, it would be agonizingly transparent to all involved parties that this was about american hegemony first and any benefit to the locals was considered a regrettable side-effect. Northerners need to not just oppose their governments' imperialist designs in Venezuela, but also put pressure to open borders to refugees fleeing the crisis. I hope that the need for first-world countries to make an effort to welcome Venezuelan refugees is something that "both sides" in this thread can agree on at least... Bob le Moche fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 22:49
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ChaseSP posted:I'm sure as hell not advocating for a military intervention in Venezuela nor anything along those lines. But supporting Gauido sure as hell isn't that for the present moment unless the PSUV just starts to unilaterally arrest and imprison the National Assembly. Heres something I don't understand, what is Gauido going to do that will end all the hunger and issues? Oh thats right, by virtue of him getting power the US would drop all sanctions. Why will the US drop sanctions and support Gauido? This is the important part now, why does the US support him, and have been trying to get rid of Chavez (and his movement) since he first came to power? What is the benefit to the US to support Gauido, while squeezing an already suffering national economy? Why is the US using pressure to try and force a regime change? Do you think its: A) The US is a humanitarian country that is concerned with the suffering of people? B) The US and groups in the US have a financial interest in ~something~ the country has? If you said A, lol they wouldn't have put in sanctions. If you said B, how is US involvement anything more than an attack to capture and steal that which doesn't belong to them? Because they're using crippling sanctions and not bombs (yet), that makes it ok? The US throwing its weight around in what should be internal matters for sovereign nations because someone will make money, is wrong to its core. If the US really cared about the people of venezuela, unfreeze all the accounts, stop all the sanctions, send in aid unconditionally with the support and help of the UN and red cross, stop taking a public stand on who its leader should be, and work with the UN to make sure the next elections are heavily monitored for any foul play.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:01
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Chuck Boone posted:A couple of days ago, Richard Branson announced that he wants to raise $100 million for the humanitarian effort. He's putting on a Venezuela Aid Live concert in Cucuta on February 22, the day before the humanitarian aid warehoused there for about a month now is scheduled to be delivered. How about this billionaire gently caress just spend $100 million of his own money if he really cares, instead of grandstanding so he can spend a couple days hanging out with Bono.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:05
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Tom Guycot posted:Heres something I don't understand, what is Gauido going to do that will end all the hunger and issues? Just a minor point, people might take your ideas more seriously if you could actually spell Guaidó correctly.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:10
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Tom Guycot posted:How about this billionaire gently caress just spend $100 million of his own money if he really cares, instead of grandstanding so he can spend a couple days hanging out with Bono. Because this is an event to raise awareness about the plight of Venezuelan and allow lots of people who didn't know much about this issue to easily donate. He also probably wants to put on a concert for the refugees to enjoy. Pharohman777 fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 23:12
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Gonna be fun to see all the "billionaires are pure and good and need to be defended from people who criticize them on the internet" takes from people who claim that this is not about left vs right
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Feb 18, 2019 23:18
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Bob le Moche posted:Gonna be fun to see all the "billionaires are pure and good and need to be defended from people who criticize them on the internet" takes from people who claim that this is not about left vs right So you don't want a charity concert?
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Feb 18, 2019 23:21
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I've just seen the results of a new survey by Meganalisis. The highlights (I've bolded the answers with the biggest response for clarity):
This one stands out and is a bit longer, so I'm typing it up separately: quote:"Section 11 of Article 187 of our constitution says 'The National Assembly has the power to authorize the use of Venezuelan military missions abroad'. Do you think that the National Assembly should authorize foreign military missions in the country?" Yes (85%); No (10.1%) The survey was conducted between February 13 and 16, and had a sample size of 1,250 people with a margin of error of 3.1% and a confidence level of 97%. Tom Guycot posted:How about this billionaire gently caress just spend $100 million of his own money if he really cares, instead of grandstanding so he can spend a couple days hanging out with Bono. Totally agree! The concert is nice from an awareness-raising point of view, but if raising that money is a concern for him, he could fix that problem a couple of times over pretty easily. Or, at least match the donations 1-1 or something! EDIT: Trump is talking about Venezuela right now in Miami and he's brought up Oscar Perez's mom to the stage  https://twitter.com/ElyangelicaNews/status/1097620510530330624 Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 23:23
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Ah Branson the sex cult millionare.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:24
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Tom Guycot posted:Heres something I don't understand, what is Gauido going to do that will end all the hunger and issues? Oh thats right, by virtue of him getting power the US would drop all sanctions. Why will the US drop sanctions and support Gauido? This is the important part now, why does the US support him, and have been trying to get rid of Chavez (and his movement) since he first came to power? What is the benefit to the US to support Gauido, while squeezing an already suffering national economy? Why is the US using pressure to try and force a regime change? US interests likely want a great amount of oil, which is obvious and I doubt anyone here would think otherwise, as well as others being sympathetic for the current plight of people in Venezuela. Why does Maduro and other PSUV cronies have billions in off shore accounts when Venzeuala has been going through an economic crisis for over a decade in the first place? They don't give a poo poo about Venezeula at all is the obvious answer, only enriching themselves while leaving the common man to starve. Proclaiming there to be no food crisis and refusing any and all aid while malnutrition raised, coinciding with massive inflation and dwindling crude oil output. Giving them the accounts wouldn't do anything to the common man at all and would only let them continue to enrichen themselves. The decay starting long before Trump's sanctions, and will continue even if he reversed them.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:33
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It appears likely that whatever else their opinions were, the poster that mentioned the GOP is using this opportunity to shore up votes in Florida was dead on.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:59
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Perez being used as a hero figure for mushbrains like Trump to trot out shouldn't be shocking at this point but fuckin lol anyway
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Feb 19, 2019 00:03
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Discendo Vox posted:It appears likely that whatever else their opinions were, the poster that mentioned the GOP is using this opportunity to shore up votes in Florida was dead on. i for one am shocked that a bunch of Miami Republicans favor military intervention in Latin America, as he assured me that this community ~definitely~ has considered an opinion other than full-throated screaming for the blood of uppity peasants at some point over the past sixty years.
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Feb 19, 2019 00:13
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When your coup is very organic and cool
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Feb 19, 2019 00:15
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