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yeah now the racism and immigration fear mongering are even more topical
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Feb 18, 2019 21:00
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Mrs Incredibles arc not changing her all that much is one of the things that bothered me, but I thought it might just have been me. Bob goes through more of an emotional rollercoaster in both movies, each the first one. Helen just kind of warns up to superheroing again and solves a mystery, it's not really as much hell as she even went through the first movie. No matter what you say about the first movie, like if it had a bad message or if it was a rip off, it was still surprisingly harsh at many points and I think people wanted more of that. The sequel was okay, but it didn't do anything unexpected really.
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Feb 18, 2019 21:36
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I feel like anyone who says Syndrome is right is only listening to the last two lines of his motive rant, and literally ignored the fact he's doing it for profit and only after he's done playing King of the Mountain by being the only super around. Syndrome is the Randian archetype, not Bob. But that's digging up a huge debate that's been nitpicked to death over and over again. but yeah, Angry Bird has that huge ugly 'Immigrants are evil' subtext, it's one thing if the Pigs were outright invading the island, but no they come in waves peacefully pushing out the birds with their numbers (echoing the 'we're no longer gonna be white' panic) and then revealed secretly planting dynamite.
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Feb 18, 2019 21:48
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IMDB Trivia: “Angry Birds 2” “Angry Birds 2 holds the world record for longest urination on screen, clocking in at a substantial 7 minutes 34 seconds.”
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Feb 18, 2019 22:26
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I wonder if they'll use SPI again or get a different studio to handle the animation
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Feb 18, 2019 22:38
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Robindaybird posted:I feel like anyone who says Syndrome is right is only listening to the last two lines of his motive rant, and literally ignored the fact he's doing it for profit and only after he's done playing King of the Mountain by being the only super around. Syndrome is the Randian archetype, not Bob. Yeah, believing that Syndrome is a man of the people with the world's best interests at heart requires taking him 100% at his word, and ignoring the fact that he's a serial murderer with a private island weapons-development compound who's accountable to absolutely nobody.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:41
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Nikaer Drekin posted:Yeah, believing that Syndrome is a man of the people with the world's best interests at heart requires taking him 100% at his word, and ignoring the fact that he's a serial murderer with a private island weapons-development compound who's accountable to absolutely nobody. and ignoring half of his words, given he outright admits to only selling his super gadgets after he gets bored playing with them.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:20
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Plus the implicit “I’m not actually gonna give too much of a poo poo about who I sell this stuff to”. Though it would have been delightful if he’d wound up getting killed by one of his lesser inventions that he’d completely forgotten about.
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Feb 19, 2019 00:23
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dirksteadfast posted:IMDB Trivia: “Angry Birds 2” A man on twitter is extremely determined to inform me that the angry birds drink the pee. In other piss related content, I caught hotel transylvania on tv a few days ago, for like the third time in the last month (Australian free to air tv sucks and I am often stuck in front of it at work). A witch uses a sentient sponge to soak up werewolf piss. It makes an ambiguous facial expression and vocalization that I can only interpret as bliss.
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Feb 19, 2019 00:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esH6xoQUExA
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Feb 19, 2019 00:41
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No you see Bob Parr, a man who becomes so enraged by the unjust exploitation of capitalist institutions such as insurance companies that he decks his boss clear across the room, is clearly a Randian super- *prrrrrrrt*
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Feb 19, 2019 00:53
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That was actually way less ambiguous than how I remembered it.
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Feb 19, 2019 01:10
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Moon Atari posted:A man on twitter is extremely determined to inform me that the angry birds drink the pee. given it was in the drat trailer (what is with all the piss jokes in kid's movies in that year?) it's kind of hard not to notice that even if you didn't even see the movie.
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Feb 19, 2019 01:27
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Ratchet and Clank failing killed Sly Cooper but at least it gave us the weirdest remake of Ratchet and Clank 1 possible that was still pretty darn good.
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Feb 19, 2019 02:08
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Accordion Man posted:No you see Bob Parr, a man who becomes so enraged by the unjust exploitation of capitalist institutions such as insurance companies that he decks his boss clear across the room, is clearly a Randian super- *prrrrrrrt* I remember seeing someone praise Incredibles 2 for having "less Randian bullshit" when, to me, 2 felt a bit more... Randian isn't the right word, but something someone could easily mistake for Randian, than the first one was
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Feb 19, 2019 02:26
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Angry Brids was (is?) the highest-rated video game movie on RottenTomatoes simply by virtue of being an inoffensive film for kids so I'm not surprised it got a sequel since it made money. Honestly it will probably end up like the Resident Evil movies or the CGI Pac-man show from a few years ago where it being based on a videogame is largely forgotten and it just becomes its own inexplicably popular and long-running thing among a different demographic than Gamers. Listening to Blank Check discuss and praise the Hotel Transylvania movies made me legitimately want to check them out sometime because them trying and failing to explain the increasingly batshit things that happen thanks to cartoon logic, culminating in the third movie where they stop Van Helsing from using Atlantis to kill all the monsters by doing the Macarena so hard that the sheet music for the summoning ritual dances itself to death, was wonderful even if they did kind of gloss over the True Love thing. Barudak posted:Ratchet and Clank failing killed Sly Cooper but at least it gave us the weirdest remake of Ratchet and Clank 1 possible that was still pretty darn good. It's still happening, they just turned it into a series. https://pgsentertainment.com/franchises/sly-cooper Digamma-F-Wau posted:I remember seeing someone praise Incredibles 2 for having "less Randian bullshit" when, to me, 2 felt a bit more... Randian isn't the right word, but something someone could easily mistake for Randian, than the first one was 2 kind of has a strong Neoliberal benevolent capitalism bent to it in that while there was interference from bad actors in the end wealthy business interests acting outside of the government wound up ultimately being correct and on the side of good since Winston Deavor's efforts are directly responsible for making supers legal again and turning the public back into supporting them. It also kind of legitimately supports them as being above regular people since a lot of their plan involved using marketing to sway public opinion, even if it was couched in the broader concept of civil disobedience being acceptable as a response to injustice.
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Feb 19, 2019 03:05
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Barudak posted:Ratchet and Clank failing killed Sly Cooper but at least it gave us the weirdest remake of Ratchet and Clank 1 possible that was still pretty darn good. Actually, it just killed the movie. It got changed into a TV series instead. e:f,b
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Feb 19, 2019 04:53
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dirksteadfast posted:IMDB Trivia: “Angry Birds 2” Coincidentally, it also holds the record for longest defecation on screen, clocking in at [entire movie's runtime]
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Feb 19, 2019 05:13
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Nikaer Drekin posted:Yeah, believing that Syndrome is a man of the people with the world's best interests at heart requires taking him 100% at his word, and ignoring the fact that he's a serial murderer with a private island weapons-development compound who's accountable to absolutely nobody. Making the representative of socialism secretly a greedy dominator in it for personal profit by indulging the idiot masses is a rhetorical tactic straight out of Ayn Rand's books. Note that the movies don't rebut him with 'but you're just doing it so you'd be superior!' or 'you can't murder people', and when he's defeated no one goes 'well, he did it the wrong way, but maybe he did have a point, let's try and democratise superpowers'. Basically go look at Black Panther if you want to see how you can depict a villain with a point, without taking a hatchet to their position. There's exactly three types of non-supers in these movies. 1. Idiot rubes easily taken in by the villains and dependent on the heroes to save them. 2. Loyal servants of the supers who don't have any independent motivation but a desire to be useful to them because the heroes deserve it. 3. Mass murderers with mental health issues. Accordion Man posted:No you see Bob Parr, a man who becomes so enraged by the unjust exploitation of capitalist institutions such as insurance companies that he decks his boss clear across the room, is clearly a Randian super- *prrrrrrrt* He just doesn't like working for them, he's not opposed to them existing. He assaulted his boss because his boss was stopping him from chasing a mugger. It's not like he blows up the company after the events of the film. Fangz fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Feb 19, 2019 |
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Feb 19, 2019 13:11
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Incredibles 2 strikes me as being hacked together from multiple drafts a bit.
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Feb 19, 2019 13:13
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I really don't see how the man who wants to commercialize and sell superpowers is the socialist representative.
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Feb 19, 2019 13:43
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The Bee posted:I really don't see how the man who wants to commercialize and sell superpowers is the socialist representative. The bad guys in Ayn Rand's books are *still trying to commercialise and sell stuff*, their problem is that they are doing it for the wrong reasons - to establish equality and keep the mediocre on top, while secretly aiming to dominate the social order. The Randian claim is that everyone is actually in it for themselves, that there's a natural state of the world with the superior on top, and anyone who claims otherwise is either than idiot or a lying hypocritical 'looter'. It's exactly the same setup as the Incredibles, and Syndrome plays the Ellsworth Toohey/Floyd Ferris role. EDIT: Syndrome's secret base is literally called Nomanisan Island. Fangz fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Feb 19, 2019 |
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Feb 19, 2019 14:46
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Fangz posted:Basically go look at Black Panther if you want to see how you can depict a villain with a point, without taking a hatchet to their position. Except Black Panther handles Killmonger in a sort of weird way. It's like they realized he had a really good point and had to compensate for that by making him a psycho special forces murderer for the sole purpose of making sure we didn't like him TOO much.
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Feb 19, 2019 15:45
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Kilmonger was dressed like Vegeta, there was no way he wouldn't be likeable
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Feb 19, 2019 15:47
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Nikaer Drekin posted:Except Black Panther handles Killmonger in a sort of weird way. It's like they realized he had a really good point and had to compensate for that by making him a psycho special forces murderer for the sole purpose of making sure we didn't like him TOO much. My point is that the Incredibles does the same in making Syndrome a psycho killer, but crucially unlike Black Panther does not take the time to separate between the good and bad parts of the character. For example, by having T'challa see Killmonger's point and uphold his legacy, by having Killmonger die with dignity on his own terms, show important scenes from his point of view, have good characters agree with him, have people be very specific on the points they disagree with him about.
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Feb 19, 2019 16:05
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Fangz posted:My point is that the Incredibles does the same in making Syndrome a psycho killer, but crucially unlike Black Panther does not take the time to separate between the good and bad parts of the character. For example, by having T'challa see Killmonger's point and uphold his legacy, by having Killmonger die with dignity on his own terms, show important scenes from his point of view, have good characters agree with him, have people be very specific on the points they disagree with him about. Right, but I don't think they're comparable because Syndrome isn't supposed to be the same type of character- he's not meant to be a flawed but well-meaning figure who's going about a noble cause the wrong way, he's a screwed-up kid who was rejected by his idol and never let it go. Would it really be a good thing for everyone in this society to have access to superhuman powers? Fangz posted:He just doesn't like working for them, he's not opposed to them existing. He assaulted his boss because his boss was stopping him from chasing a mugger. It's not like he blows up the company after the events of the film. It's not just about the mugging, that's the tipping point but it's clear that things have been building for a long time. The entire scene before that one shows that Bob is opposed to the way Insuricare is set up on a fundamental level- he has to deliberately work against the rules to help people.
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Feb 19, 2019 16:21
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Again, Syndrome does say he's going to sell his inventions, when he's too old to play engineered heroics anymore (and we can imagine how little regard he has for collateral damage) and gets tired of it. And doing so entirely for selfish and petty reasons, which doesn't bode well for him making them affordable or safe. I feel Incredibles works better with the supers being used as metaphors for people with creative talent who are constrained by commercialised art, censorship and moral panics. (something which the superhero genre has a very real history with, Comics Code and all) Mr Incredible is forced into a boring and exploitative office job he's bad at and hates, Elastigirl gets a seemingly cushy solo offer that while having its perks, is at the price of her freedom to operate and her privacy, and Syndrome wants to appropriate them all for himself and have a monopoly before eventually commercialising it when he's too old to do it all himself. Either that, or with supers as a metaphor for a social safety net, with statistically insignificant failures and greed causing it to be stripped away, and later commercialised and sold back to people.
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Feb 19, 2019 17:56
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Again, Syndrome does say he's going to sell his inventions, when he's too old to play engineered heroics anymore (and we can imagine how little regard he has for collateral damage) and gets tired of it. And doing so entirely for selfish and petty reasons, which doesn't bode well for him making them affordable or safe. Given how his outing at heroics went, he did not care one wit about about making sure people are safe, and the moment it goes pear-shaped, he doesn't fix it, or crawl away to lick his wounds - he goes to kidnap Jack Jack because he's an angry, self-centered, petty manchild who can't let poo poo go and wants to gently caress Bob over all for the crime of getting kicked out of the man's car and told to go home.
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Feb 19, 2019 18:19
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You can read a lot of things into Incredibles 1. Not enough happened in Incredibles 2 and it did not feel as purposeful, so there's not as much to discuss or feel about it, in my opinion. The fake news/escapism thing is pretty surface level. 2 needed to feel harsh like the first movie, especially if it was to have Helen as the character it was exploring. At no point does Helen have two motivations pitted against each other. We never see what happens to Helen when she feels like she's lost everything.
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Feb 19, 2019 18:32
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Moon Atari posted:It has some moments I like (elastigirl train set piece and jackjack vs raccoon), and the characters still have appeal, but overall it was peak unnecessary sequel and never managed to cohere into a satisfying narrative as opposed to a collection of skits and scenes, before coasting to a weak conclusion. It's a sitcom episode with action set pieces. I think My Hero Academia is kinda running with some of those ideas, actually. Can we just get an Incredibles/MHA crossover?
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Feb 19, 2019 19:03
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Fangz posted:
This is literally something Bird cites as an example of how wrongheaded randian interpretations of the plot are, that Bob's selfish attempts at individualism that endanger everyone he ever cared about takes place on an island named after the movie's central theme of how no man is an island. He has spoken openly about his intentions of the film and actively opposed randian misinterpretations of the film's events and messaging, same with other people who worked on it. At this point you have to be operating on an incredible degree of bad faith and paranoia to think that literally every major creative input on the film is intentionally lying to try and push an agenda on kids. It's like a lefty version of the people who think that Nickelodeon sitcoms are covertly pushing interracial cuckoldry on impressionable children. DizzyBum posted:I think My Hero Academia is kinda running with some of those ideas, actually. Bad news, Pixar's biggest and most public anime fan just got kicked out of the company.
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Feb 19, 2019 20:44
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Speaking of which, apparently Emma Thompson walked out on her voice role in a major production because of the studio's decision to hire Lasseter.
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Feb 19, 2019 21:31
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Guy Mann posted:Bad news, Pixar's biggest and most public anime fan just got kicked out of the company. i feel like lasseter is way more interested in telling people how good and real his friendship with miyazaki is than any actual film
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Feb 19, 2019 22:28
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Agent Escalus posted:Speaking of which, apparently Emma Thompson walked out on her voice role in a major production because of the studio's decision to hire Lasseter. Hell yeah, good for her
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Feb 19, 2019 22:36
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Nikaer Drekin posted:Except Black Panther handles Killmonger in a sort of weird way. It's like they realized he had a really good point and had to compensate for that by making him a psycho special forces murderer for the sole purpose of making sure we didn't like him TOO much. This is pretty much every movie or show that tries to give realistic depth to a villain while still adhering to the constraints of the blockbuster action movie format. They don't really have enough time to fully thread the needle from the reasonable sounding argument to the inevitable toxic outcome, so it ends up feeling artificial. There are very few that pull it off -- and a lot of times when they do, there are a significant amount viewers who don't "get" that the villain is wrong.
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Feb 19, 2019 23:49
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Fangz posted:He just doesn't like working for them, he's not opposed to them existing. He assaulted his boss because his boss was stopping him from chasing a mugger. It's not like he blows up the company after the events of the film.
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Feb 20, 2019 01:06
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I would watch a show that was just Miyazaki talking about how terrible anime is.
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Feb 20, 2019 03:42
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Hemingway To Go! posted:You can read a lot of things into Incredibles 1. Not enough happened in Incredibles 2 and it did not feel as purposeful, so there's not as much to discuss or feel about it, in my opinion. The fake news/escapism thing is pretty surface level. "oh, here are the villain's motivations" "oh, wait, the villain was just saying that as a ploy and she probably didn't really mean it, so that speech was just a waste of time?" was a real whiplash moment. I was entertained by it, and anything that's fun isn't really a waste of time, but I mean in the sense of the narrative with conveying motivations galenanorth fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Feb 20, 2019 |
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Feb 20, 2019 03:57
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Speaking of Miyazaki, I was able to go to the Ghibli Museum during my travels. It’s a lot like My Neighbor Totoro, in that it’s pretty to look at and incredibly charming, but it’s not a deep dive into anything. (Also they either pinned up a bunch of reproductions of original design sketches as wallpaper or they’re very trusting that no one is gonna touch all over original production sketches and mess them up).
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Feb 20, 2019 05:36
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dirksteadfast posted:Speaking of Miyazaki, I was able to go to the Ghibli Museum during my travels. It’s a lot like My Neighbor Totoro, in that it’s pretty to look at and incredibly charming, but it’s not a deep dive into anything. (Also they either pinned up a bunch of reproductions of original design sketches as wallpaper or they’re very trusting that no one is gonna touch all over original production sketches and mess them up). I went there just over a year ago! It was fantastic, my favourite part was the recreation of Miyazaki’s study. I wanted to spend hours in there. They also had an exhibition of the food of Ghibli movies with hyper-real 3D recreations of various fantasy foods (eg: the banquet that turns Chihiro’s parents into pigs in Spirited Away) and some fully constructed sets of kitchens from Ghibli movies (eg: the kitchen from the airship in Nausicaa) What a fantastic museum. You can’t take photos inside it sadly 😔 But I got a bunch of souvenirs from their excellent gift shop.
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Feb 20, 2019 07:31
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