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She's not prevented from doing it. There's no magical spell that makes Erica incapable of the transition. It's frustrating and lovely that they felt the need to show it but don't write in plot points that aren't there. ZenMasterBullshit posted:Even if it was the imaginary implication Your Parents thinks it was it's still the writer.going out of their way to show Erica as a man in the supposed everyone got what they wanted happy ending in the context of a game who's narrative goes out of its way to make sure you know she's really a man even in the eyes of God since she's affected by the curse. It's just one more little barb on the gross writing and transphobic poo poo that the game dumps out. Just a minor thing but the final boss that judges her is not god. It's literally some rear end in a top hat that won the Climbing Cup before Vincent did and he thinks he's doing the world a favor by passing his own judgement about Japanese birth rates. Vincent (and Erica) poo poo on him when they find out and Vincent throws down a challenge to make him gently caress off and stop pushing his views on people.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:16
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Andrast posted:I think I have liked something in the past Bullshit
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Feb 18, 2019 22:27
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:She's not prevented from doing it. There's no magical spell that makes Erica incapable of the transition. It's frustrating and lovely that they felt the need to show it but don't write in plot points that aren't there. Goin back in time and making it so that she doesn't transition literally is preventing her from transitioning via magic.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:31
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Andrast posted:I think I have liked something in the past i liked a youtube let's play channel once but it was a huge mistake and thank god that nightmare is over
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Feb 18, 2019 22:32
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Andrast posted:I think I have liked something in the past you monster
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Feb 18, 2019 22:42
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Improbable Lobster posted:Goin back in time and making it so that she doesn't transition literally is preventing her from transitioning via magic. I'm being very literal in that they go back in time and Erica hasn't transitioned yet but she still can. There is no implications that anything can stop her from going through with it here too. It just hasn't happened yet (if it happens at all) I think it is a insanely lovely and frustrating thing to do and it has turned me from a game I was considering buying, but I've seen a fair amount of posts over the past couple days saying the ending is Catherine literally casting a hex on Erica to stop her, specifically, and Erica shouting that she is a gay man now when both aren't true, and on a topic that I'm trying to take seriously I think it's important to be as 100% clear as possible?
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Feb 18, 2019 22:45
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I love the "ending is fake news" narrative chuds are spinning as of multiple people in the industry didn't confirm it. Can't wait for the inevitable appeal to civility masturbation post beep by grandpa always posts in response to trans people being upset.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:47
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You already missed it
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Feb 18, 2019 22:50
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I'm being very literal in that they go back in time and Erica hasn't transitioned yet but she still can. There is no implications that anything can stop her from going through with it here too. It just hasn't happened yet (if it happens at all) Serious question: are you actually this loving stupid
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Feb 18, 2019 22:55
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Improbable Lobster posted:Serious question: are you actually this loving stupid are you? the ending is literally saying she's going to transition and get together with toby.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:58
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if anything its in bad taste because its supposed to be a tragedy fake out. you see erica standing there in boymode and go oh gently caress its not a good ending after all and then she has dialogue that lets you know everything is going to be fine.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:59
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During the course of the entire game there's constant "jokes" about her "actually" being a man and the new ending ends with her living as a man and the director is a notorious bigot but don't worry, "she could still transition". Nothing about the ending implies that she's still trans or will transition in the future! Just because the possibility hasn't been explicitly eliminated doesn't mean that that's the intended reading.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:59
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Your Parents posted:if anything its in bad taste because its supposed to be a tragedy fake out. you see erica standing there in boymode and go oh gently caress its not a good ending after all and then she has dialogue that lets you know everything is going to be fine. Cool, except it doesn't do that at all actually
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Feb 18, 2019 23:01
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Improbable Lobster posted:During the course of the entire game there's constant "jokes" about her "actually" being a man and the new ending ends with her living as a man and the director is a notorious bigot but don't worry, "she could still transition". Nothing about the ending implies that she's still trans or will transition in the future! Just because the possibility hasn't been explicitly eliminated doesn't mean that that's the intended reading. these "jokes" all got removed in the release you're complaining about.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:01
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Improbable Lobster posted:Cool, except it doesn't do that at all actually it sounds like thats exactly what it does, by all accounts.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:03
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Improbable Lobster posted:Serious question: are you actually this loving stupid gently caress off. I literally said it was bad and I did not like it or agree with it. All I was trying to say is that people should have a clear idea of what actually happens in the ending as actual fake spoilers have been floating around trying to make it even worse than it actually is, or making it better. Catherine at no point attacks Erica. Erica at no point thanks Catherine for preventing the change or says that her life is better now that it hasn't happened. These things do not happen and I saw it getting parroted around as if it was true. I think it's important to get mad at the ending. That the writer should be shamed. But I think he should be shamed and fired for what's actually there. ThisIsACoolGuy fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 23:07
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Your Parents posted:it sounds like thats exactly what it does, by all accounts. It doesn't.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:09
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Your Parents posted:it sounds like thats exactly what it does, by all accounts. "by the accounts of people with suspect motives desperate to deny that Katsura Hashino isn't a hateful bigot who are writing elaborate fanfiction of a non-existent epilogue that fixes the extremely bad look the game ends on" is a not a position I'd want to back up but hey
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Feb 18, 2019 23:10
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:gently caress off. I didn't say any of that poo poo. I said she was prevented from transitioning. She was. That is what happens in the new ending.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:11
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Improbable Lobster posted:I didn't say any of that poo poo. I said she was prevented from transitioning. She was. That is what happens in the new ending. You know I'll bite the bullet. I'm loving awful at getting my points across sometimes and I've rewritten these posts each a few times trying to be clear. Original post I made said "(Not that I've seen it in this thread in particular)" and I was about to jump and point at that but it apparently got deleted in a rewrite.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:15
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Your Parents posted:are you? the ending is literally saying she's going to transition and get together with toby. It literally does not imply that at all. At most it implies she's living as a gay man. I'm sorry you're stupid but me being grossed out by this transphobic garbage isn't me trying to trick people into being mad. That's you own brain demons
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Feb 18, 2019 23:31
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just put your parents and mel on ignore you loving idiots
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Feb 18, 2019 23:39
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Monathin posted:just put your parents and mel on ignore you loving idiots wait what did I do
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Feb 18, 2019 23:52
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Mel Mudkiper posted:wait what did I do u got probed
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Feb 18, 2019 23:57
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Junpei Hyde posted:u got probed Eh, Mel has some bad opinions but I think he didn't say anything too stupid here.
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Feb 19, 2019 00:02
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Dias posted:Eh, Mel has some bad opinions but I think he didn't say anything too stupid here. I factor in previous behaviour sometimes but like, you can't link the same probe to multiple posts, so
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Feb 19, 2019 00:03
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Dias posted:Eh, Mel has some bad opinions but I think he didn't say anything too stupid here. Constantly going back to "but I'm just not into this liam kh stream" over and then arguing obnoxiously with people who say "maybe he likes the game" is pretty loving stupid imo
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Feb 19, 2019 00:14
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Junpei Hyde posted:I factor in previous behaviour sometimes but like, you can't link the same probe to multiple posts, so Eh, fair enough.
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Feb 19, 2019 00:15
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Junpei Hyde posted:I factor in previous behaviour sometimes but like, you can't link the same probe to multiple posts, so I don't have plat so I'll say this here, thank you for probing Your Parents Junpei cause them trying to turn my discomfort in how poorly the transwoman in Catherine is handled into me emotionally manipulating...someone I guess felt really creepy and gross.
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Feb 19, 2019 00:23
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So as someone who didn't play Catherine, was everyone lovely about Erica or was it just the one guy who acted all Crying Game about it because 'liKiNG TRAps Is GaY' since every fiction has to be accurate to the oppression of being a minority and we can't let them have a nice story. Like, is this actually a case of cooler heads prevailing and actually the director who keeps putting in all the callous poo poo about lgbt people in the Persona games wasn't trying to say that in a perfect world Erica never transitioned and they're a much better character because of it? Because- my experience was all secondhand but- I thought everyone was kind of an rear end to Erica in the game but people- who are real and playing it- liked her regardless.
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Feb 19, 2019 00:37
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I don't have plat so I'll say this here, thank you for probing Your Parents Junpei cause them trying to turn my discomfort in how poorly the transwoman in Catherine is handled into me emotionally manipulating...someone I guess felt really creepy and gross. i mean, i'm the mod, so
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Feb 19, 2019 00:40
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RareAcumen posted:So as someone who didn't play Catherine, was everyone lovely about Erica or was it just the one guy who acted all Crying Game about it because 'liKiNG TRAps Is GaY' since every fiction has to be accurate to the oppression of being a minority and we can't let them have a nice story. Vincent could be a dick to her sometimes but Toby was the worst and Johnny usually tried to reign it all in. The shittier things that happen to Erica are writer's fiat like her being part of the curse that only affects men and them deadnaming her in the credits when I don't think her deadname is spoken more than once previously. It's less the characters not thinking she's a woman and more the writer and narratives hand making sure you know she's not. Like in the context of the new stuff and everything else the writer/producer has done It's more "She's better off as a gay man" ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Feb 19, 2019 |
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Feb 19, 2019 00:41
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Vincent could be a dick to her sometimes but Toby was the worst and Johnny usually tried to reign it all in. The shittier things that happen to Erica are writer's fiat like her being part of the curse that only affects men and them deadnaming her in the credits when I don't think her deadname is spoken more than once previously. Alright, I think I get it now. No wonder everyone's like gently caress him, since most of the animosity was from one character and the writing constantly putting her in situations that're way worse for no apparent reason.
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Feb 19, 2019 00:49
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RareAcumen posted:Alright, I think I get it now. No wonder everyone's like gently caress him, since most of the animosity was from one character and the writing constantly putting her in situations that're way worse for no apparent reason. Basically everyone in the group knows Erica before she transitioned and went to school with her then and supported her change over. They're still friends and they get drunk together and hang out and you don't really find out about Erica until a sheep shows up in the dream that looks like her and she drops a few hints about not resting well (because she's climbing like the guys are). They have a younger friend named Toby who only knows Erica as a woman and didn't know she was trans. Toby is constantly hitting on her and the guys are just kind of amused by it but it's all light "she cute" fluff and nothing terribly serious and the guys never bring it up at all with him. In the climax of the game Vincent finds out the bars owner is some kind of weird sheep demi-god and is putting his patrons under a curse if he thinks they aren't helping Japanese birthrates. If you can't produce a child he kills you by making you play Q*Bert (which is the reason why he targets men). Vincent (and Erica who's on duty that night) challenge him to one last game- if Vincent loses he dies and the bar owner keeps loving with everyone and if Vincent wins the bar owner fucks off and just runs his business like a normal rear end bar. If the player wins and is going for the true lovers ending, Toby and Erica have sex off camera (as multiple days have passed) and Toby found out afterwards about Erica being trans. He complains and wants his v-card back and Erica laughs and tells him "you aren't getting that back I own that now." and Toby just grumbles. During the credits there's a picture of Erica catching a Bouquet and Toby giving a exasperated look but over the course of the credits the two seem to be getting happier. Final scene of the game has all the couples paired up with Toby and Erica together with wine glasses so you can take it however you want from there Outside that Vincent just has some random comments like "I don't know if they'd accept you into a womans-wrestling league, Erica" resulting in her telling him to gently caress off or in some cases jabbing back at him. If you want to see the ending here it is E: And for clarity it doesn't come up at all in the other endings, just this one. ThisIsACoolGuy fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Feb 19, 2019 |
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Feb 19, 2019 01:18
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On a parallel topic, I watched the podcast in stream form for the first time today and I was really not pleased with how the chat moderation team handled the situation when the talk about the Catherine ending started. There were some truly vile openly bigoted things being said and nobody got any kind of hit for it. Forget standard 4chan bullshit about SJWs and AGENDAS and all that other trash, when someone can post "It's good to undo the transition in the True Ending because transitioning is evil and ruins lives," or "Trans and Homosexuality are mental diseases," and not suffer any consequences, there's something wrong with your moderation team's work.
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Feb 19, 2019 01:49
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Sanguinia posted:On a parallel topic, I watched the podcast in stream form for the first time today and I was really not pleased with how the chat moderation team handled the situation when the talk about the Catherine ending started. There were some truly vile openly bigoted things being said and nobody got any kind of hit for it. Forget standard 4chan bullshit about SJWs and AGENDAS and all that other trash, when someone can post "It's good to undo the transition in the True Ending because transitioning is evil and ruins lives," or "Trans and Homosexuality are mental diseases," and not suffer any consequences, there's something wrong with your moderation team's work. That's a problem with twitch in general, whenever Scarlett(One of the best sc2 players in the world, who happens to be trans) is on stream it's practically non stop.
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Feb 19, 2019 02:01
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Turns out cishet men are the biggest babies in need of a safe space.
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Feb 19, 2019 02:03
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Roth posted:Turns out cishet men are the biggest babies in need of a safe space.
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Feb 19, 2019 02:50
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I don't know what the gently caress you all are on about, but Woolie made some unintelligible shitpost on Youtube again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5jMXKrpZuo I think it has something to do with fite games?
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Feb 19, 2019 03:36
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I must have entered an alternate reality, as the last 2 pages seem to be talking about members of the Best Friends that I never knew! I'll add to the Woolie talk by saying I'm a week behind on subs still, but just got done watching Woolie's Great Joy at ZOE2 VR. I kind of wish we got to see his head on the screen at the same time or something, because the in game view got kind of old to watch on monitor. He was a joy to listen to though. I've noticed at times Minh seems to have no clue what to say, so he'll repeat things Woolie says. I seem to recall someone in the last thread sharing a "this is supposedly Billy" post where he revealed himself and said he was a streamer. Is Minh actually a streamer? He seems to have a really hard time finding anything to talk about. And he's talked before about his memory being bad and having trouble remembering things. Just seems like he'd not be too great at streaming (though I realize this could also be him struggling more at being the co-pilot) For the past 10 episodes or so I've wondered how much Woolie ever played ZoE2 though. I feel like he's praised ZoE2 a ton before, but he doesn't seem to remember much of anything in the game and doesn't seem to be that great at it. I beat it 4-5 times when it came out and seem to have remembered way more and am way better at the game. I know the joke is that the Best Friends suck at all video games.... But it just makes me wonder if Woolie just played the game once and only held a few vague fond memories. Maybe I'm the one with the lovely memory though, not remembering when Woolie has mentioned his love of Jehuty in the past.
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Feb 19, 2019 04:32
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