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Elector_Nerdlingen posted:Same on both counts. Reading's different from watching/listening and I do enough of the latter IRL to be able to watch heavy stuff like that in my spare time. Can someone who has watched it please briefly summarise? I get it if nobody wants to. Basically... back when Shane wasn’t presenting as male, he was in an abusive relationship with Devon Oratz. They made games together, it was when they went to GenCon that they encountered the McFarlands via an IGDN booth share arrangement (from which the McFarlands and MDT apparently pocketed the profits and left Shane and Devon with only costs). Matt seemed to intentionally antagonise Devon and direct his aggression towards Shane, and it spiralled from there. Things like Devon smashing Shane’s framed degree and pissing on it, choking him, sending abusive emails in Shane’s name to Matt which Matt then used to exile Shane from TTRPG publishing, and far worse. It seems like yet another example of the IGDN failing its members and creating an environment for abuse. Oh, by the way, I know this because Holden went through the effort of transcribing this - something I’m sure you can appreciate wasn’t easy. Say what you like about him, but he’s been putting in a lot of work this past week to make sure word gets out about the abusers in our community and making sure victims get support (eg promoting Luka’s GoFundMe, which you folks should check out).
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Feb 19, 2019 10:20
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Thank you.
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Feb 19, 2019 10:32
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Kurieg posted:How?  edit - now having scrolled to the bottom of this thread: what the gently caress is wrong with this industry jesus christ. Sion fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Feb 19, 2019 |
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Feb 19, 2019 10:33
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This 'industry' for the most part hasn't so much grown as it has congealed.
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Feb 19, 2019 11:22
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Mentzer has been removed as guest of honour from Gary Con. Given they didn't do it for last year, despite it being after his harassment and lovely behaviour came out, it's got to be because of the ongoing campaign by Contessa/Others to shame them into doing it. Apparently noted assaulter and drunken frat boy-imitator Bill Webb stepped down as a guest of honour in December. Paizo didn't take any action against either https://garycon.com/blog/2019/02/18/harbinger-unheeded/
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Feb 19, 2019 12:23
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On another note, maybe we should do our own awards. The Awfuls. Main requirement for being considered is to not be Awful.
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Feb 19, 2019 12:29
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Angrymog posted:On another note, maybe we should do our own awards. The Awfuls. Main requirement for being considered is to not be Awful. Already significantly better than the Ennies
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Feb 19, 2019 12:30
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http://theonyxpath.com/about-matt-mcfarland/ Don't have the time to make much comments on this or quote it on mobile, but Onyx Path saying something about reviewing the Matt McFarland material they have yet to publish and considering taking actions about his previously published work?
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Feb 19, 2019 14:01
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gourdcaptain posted:http://theonyxpath.com/about-matt-mcfarland/ Basically, yeah. They're also putting out a harassment policy for freelancers to try and head this off in the future, which frankly they should've done a long time ago. And in the comments some dude is shouting about due process and how this article is slander, and it's...well, it's the standard bullshit.
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Feb 19, 2019 14:10
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Concerned OPP Poster posted:Um..I don’t think he was saying anything of the sort, just expressing the importance of due process. (Screaming internally)
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Feb 19, 2019 15:01
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DalaranJ posted:He has been apparently. Yep, this was exactly the one. Thanks!
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Feb 19, 2019 15:05
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Dawgstar posted:(Screaming internally) Yeah, there are a few of these on the WhiteWolf subreddit, as well. I was happily surprised to see that they'd been heavily downvoted.
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Feb 19, 2019 15:07
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gourdcaptain posted:http://theonyxpath.com/about-matt-mcfarland/ Action taken about his previously published work may be difficult. At least in some jurisdictions, copyright also comes with a set of "moral rights" - like, if you are the author of something you have the moral right to be credited with it. Unless Matt is willing to play ball on it, for instance, it may be difficult to simply take his name off Demon without excising and replacing all the text he wrote. Then again, Demon might do with a 1.5 edition which integrates the rules into the text like a regular ChroD game does, since at the moment it's the only one of the "god machine wave" of Chronicles of Darkness games which isn't ready-to-play in one book (you still need core ChroD or the original NWoD rulebook to run it). It's a chore which was going to come up sooner or later to stop it increasingly looking like an odd duck, maybe this is a reason to push it up the priority list.
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Feb 19, 2019 15:07
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Warthur posted:Action taken about his previously published work may be difficult. At least in some jurisdictions, copyright also comes with a set of "moral rights" - like, if you are the author of something you have the moral right to be credited with it. Unless Matt is willing to play ball on it, for instance, it may be difficult to simply take his name off Demon without excising and replacing all the text he wrote. I totally agree that they shouldn't just strip his credits, unless he consents to it.  When I read their statement it sounded more like "We're going to see if we can afford to have someone else write material to replace what his work, and the re-release the books." than engaging with MM in any way, but I can't say for certain.
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Feb 19, 2019 15:47
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Dawgstar posted:(Screaming internally) Stupid and disgusting as those assholes are, its worth pointing out that there's basically 2 of them in the comments, and every other reply has been "you're a loving idiot who only tries this poo poo when its a white dude, and also here's why crying "due process" doesn't apply here". Speaking more broadly than just individual cases, I'm getting the sense that the community as a whole is just fed up with this bullshit. With an added side of becoming savvier on how to counter the lovely talking points of the chuds over the last two years.
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Feb 19, 2019 15:49
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Flavivirus posted:Basically... back when Shane wasn’t presenting as male, he was in an abusive relationship with Devon Oratz. They made games together, it was when they went to GenCon that they encountered the McFarlands via an IGDN booth share arrangement (from which the McFarlands and MDT apparently pocketed the profits and left Shane and Devon with only costs). Matt seemed to intentionally antagonise Devon and direct his aggression towards Shane, and it spiralled from there. Things like Devon smashing Shane’s framed degree and pissing on it, choking him, sending abusive emails in Shane’s name to Matt which Matt then used to exile Shane from TTRPG publishing, and far worse. It seems like yet another example of the IGDN failing its members and creating an environment for abuse. Russell Zimmerman, one of the current Shadowrun writers, popped into a thread over on Reddit about this as well: quote:On the Shadowrun front, Devon was fired for reasons only tangentially related (he was in a tailspin and part of that tailspin was lashing out at his partner, while other parts of it were just being increasingly caustic and unprofessional elsewhere), but I made Jason aware of Shane and Devon's history when Shane first went only-semi-public, and he's made it clear he won't be hiring Devon back under any circumstances.
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Feb 19, 2019 16:22
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Desiden posted:Stupid and disgusting as those assholes are, its worth pointing out that there's basically 2 of them in the comments, and every other reply has been "you're a loving idiot who only tries this poo poo when its a white dude, and also here's why crying "due process" doesn't apply here". The reddit thread on it is worse https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/as6cre/about_matt_mcfarland/ Albeit it's reddit, gamergate and MGTOW and redpill and everything else, but there's a lot more people there doing the typical bullshit and some brigading and so on. There's a general gently caress  here isn't there?
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Feb 19, 2019 16:45
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actually3raccoons posted:When I read their statement it sounded more like "We're going to see if we can afford to have someone else write material to replace what his work, and the re-release the books." than engaging with MM in any way, but I can't say for certain.
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Feb 19, 2019 16:53
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I don't get why people want to save Beast? There are some good scraps here and there for sure, but does it really justify a fully playable game line that you can run for your friends? I can totally see using a Beast as a Werewolf antagonist in the form of alien horror that is manipulating local Pure Tribes or something along those lines. What else would you even want to use them for where they couldn't just be a evil spirit or something?
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Feb 19, 2019 16:59
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I don't get why people want to save Beast? There are some good scraps here and there for sure, but does it really justify a fully playable game line that you can run for your friends? On the other hand, I'm not OPP and I don't have to keep good relations with those freelancers who haven't shat the bed. Nor am I an OPP freelancer who's used professional time on Beast trying to salvage the dang thing. I think if OPP were going to cancel it they'd want to do it with a reasonably careful approach so as not to make it look like they were denigrating any of the freelancers who'd worked on it needlessly, and they might also need to reach some sort of accommodation with anyone who's currently got unpaid time on the clock for Beast writing which won't see the light of day due to the cancellation. EDIT: I mean, current state of the game line certainly feels like a "soft cancellation" in that IIRC there's nothing new planned for it, but on the other hand there's been no cancellation announcement and the thing's still available to buy. At this stage it might be time to shift gear to "hard cancellation". Warthur fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Feb 19, 2019 |
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Feb 19, 2019 17:25
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I don't get why people want to save Beast? There are some good scraps here and there for sure, but does it really justify a fully playable game line that you can run for your friends? There's nothing in beast worth saving. Every "good" thing that beast does is stolen from another game line. They aren't all in the same place like they are in Beast, but they don't work well together so that's kind of the problem. If you want to 'salvage' beast you'd have to burn it to the ground and start over to get rid of the slime and the bad connotations and at that point why even bother.
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Feb 19, 2019 17:40
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Angrymog posted:If you want to see a mismanaged kickstarter, look for saga worldbuilder Aka, why every Kickstarter needs to include a section in their Risks on "what will you do when your manufacturers backstab you?"
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Feb 19, 2019 18:04
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I mean at this point isn't it pretty much 'don't manufacture in China unless you have someone on the ground there who's already in the business' anyway?
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Feb 19, 2019 18:08
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Warthur posted:I guess the major decision to make is "Is it even viable to salvage Beast at this point, or are we just better off discontinuing the line and writing it off as too botched to be worth saving?" That's a biggie, along with other books he has content in, even if he isn't lead dev. I could swear he had a large part in C20, along with his NWoD portfolio. There may be no good (ie. legal, moral, and cost effective) means of removing/replacing his text in those books. Does Beast have any upcoming release obligations? If not, I wouldn't be surprised if the line was quietly shelved for the foreseeable future.
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Feb 19, 2019 18:17
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peak quote:Statutory Rape is a crime that varies wildly state to state (in Nebraska the age of consent is 19, others it is 16). So just hearing statutory rape without further details isn't going to raise my moral hackles, but even if he had consensual sex with a 15 year old at 26 while it's inappropriate and wrong it doesn't warrant lifetime exclusion from his profession as an RPG writer.
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Feb 19, 2019 18:18
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PST posted:peak huh Rob Lowe plays TRPGs
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Feb 19, 2019 18:23
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https://twitter.com/Wizards_DnD/status/1097904200401354752 Spoiler: it's still bad.
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Feb 19, 2019 18:26
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PST posted:peak There is no depth they won’t sink to.
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Feb 19, 2019 18:27
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slap me and kiss me posted:https://twitter.com/Wizards_DnD/status/1097904200401354752 A) Mearls has lied to management and not told them the truth B) Mearls has admitted what he did, and this is their attempt to whitewash it
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Feb 19, 2019 18:30
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PST posted:peak I just need 'ephebophilia not pedophilia' for the bingo.
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Feb 19, 2019 18:40
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Dawgstar posted:I just need 'ephebophilia not pedophilia' for the bingo. I got this: quote:A person having a relationship with at 15/16 yo when they are 26 is inappropriate, but it's not pedophilia, it's not violent rape and it shouldn't be treated as though it was equivalent. Which of course no one was saying other than this poo poo head moving the goalposts, but is that close enough? https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/as6cre/about_matt_mcfarland/egtdrod/?context=3
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Feb 19, 2019 18:52
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Side note: the woman who accused Matt of raping her when she was a minor was very clear on that it was rape.
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Feb 19, 2019 18:55
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Mors Rattus posted:Side note: the woman who accused Matt of raping her when she was a minor was very clear on that it was rape. Yeah I know, but assorted reddit types (see above and keep searching from there) are really keen on how it's nor rape if they're overage, or it's not rape if he hasn't actually confessed and all the other bullshit. I don't know if it's brigading from the MGTOW or red pill bullshit, but there's been this ongoing thing with zak and now matt about how obviously the fee-males deserve it, and it's far worse to accuse a man of anything.
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Feb 19, 2019 19:06
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PST posted:I don't know if it's brigading from the MGTOW or red pill bullshit, but there's been this ongoing thing with zak and now matt about how obviously the fee-males deserve it, and it's far worse to accuse a man of anything. Vox Valentine fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Feb 19, 2019 |
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Feb 19, 2019 19:12
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Can Reddit do anything about their experts on legal child-loving? It's not a good look.
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Feb 19, 2019 19:22
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moths posted:Can Reddit do anything about their experts on legal child-loving? It's not a good look. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming by international media attention into banning the subreddits that were outright advertising child porn On the other hand, they're currently all over anything corporations don't like and might hassle them over
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Feb 19, 2019 19:24
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slap me and kiss me posted:https://twitter.com/Wizards_DnD/status/1097904200401354752 It's essentially the same as Mearls' statement only with the really obvious lie about Zak's involvement slightly changed, good job Wizards 
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Feb 19, 2019 19:25
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Until Mike Mearls personally apologizes for his defence of Zak Smith, no D&D Team statement is worth reading.
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Feb 19, 2019 19:30
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It's an incredibly disgusting response because they aren't actually donating anything to RAIN, just putting it's name there in hopes you'll draw a connection between them and WotC that doesn't exist. They are doing actually less then nothing - they're letting someone else do something, and are trying to take credit for it after they assisted zak.
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Feb 19, 2019 20:09
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moths posted:Can Reddit do anything about their experts on legal child-loving? It's not a good look. I'm sure the corporation as a whole could if they want to, but their statements have tended to be whatever mix of ideological "we shouldn't cut out voices ever no matter how toxic" bullshit and the corporate desire to not have to spend the money that would be required to moderate their userbase. In practice, individual subreddits are moderated in vastly different ways. So one subreddit might be a free for all, where another diligently boots dipshits and downvotes trolls. Its kind of all over the place.
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Feb 19, 2019 20:12
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