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The exceedingly high bar of "Don't hustle for a sexual harasser".
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Feb 20, 2019 22:23
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Oh thank god Mr. Maltose is here with a hot take. Is Morke still sexually harassing, I don't have the unique personal insights that most goons here are adamant that they and they alone possess.
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Feb 20, 2019 22:24
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Let's cut to the chase and have you call me mentally disabled again.
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Feb 20, 2019 22:25
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Mr. Maltose posted:Let's cut to the chase and have you call me mentally disabled again. Was your dick erect while you typed that or what? How can I help you Mr. Maltose. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 20, 2019 22:27
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What the gently caress is wrong with you?
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Feb 20, 2019 22:30
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Lumbermouth posted:What the gently caress is wrong with you? Nah dude, he can either gently caress off or stop trying to bait people into an easy probe with pithy one-liners. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 20, 2019 22:33
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I'm pretty sure this exchange is precisely why you have a sign, Dan. Don't make me tap the sign. E: In the interests of actually doing the thing that profile text is there for, and moving on: I was actually really heartened to see people not letting Zak's defenders get away with their bullshit even in the OSR subreddit. So while most of the OSR figures who've made statements have made pretty bad ones (and that Raggi statement is just atrocious) there does seem to be some RPG Me Too movement in that sphere as well. Which, if nothing else, seems like a good sign for the OSR maybe not being a permanent pit of despair like I've gotten used to? I don't really have much interest in OSR gaming at all (and the two adventures I've read from OSR, Tower of the Stargazer and The Crawling God, were both incredibly bad) but it's nice to think that people who are into classic helldungeons can maybe not also be a cesspool. Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Feb 20, 2019 |
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Feb 20, 2019 22:37
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Joe Slowboat posted:I'm pretty sure this exchange is precisely why you have a sign, Dan. This sign is clearly hosed, as I have gotten many replies in spite of its dire warnings. It is a very cute duck though, and its presence is soothing to me.
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Feb 20, 2019 22:39
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Bedlamdan posted:This sign is clearly hosed, as I have gotten many replies in spite of its dire warnings. Yeah I'll admit, 'don't reply' signs are clearly a completely helpless technology, doomed to failure. But you could, also, consider being less combative and willing to stoop to incredibly bad posts yourself when you want to sway the discussion around here.
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Feb 20, 2019 22:42
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Joe Slowboat posted:Yeah I'll admit, 'don't reply' signs are clearly a completely helpless technology, doomed to failure. But you could, also, consider being less combative and willing to stoop to incredibly bad posts yourself when you want to sway the discussion around here. Should I just cruise into a thread and give a single line like 'go gently caress yourself  ' while safe in the certainty the mods have my back?Sure I'll be nicer to Mr. Maltose if he also chills the gently caress out instead of just languidly trawling into someone else's conversations and then giving something better than a lameass 'heh, actually' for every single one of his posts. It's not like I'm the only one who noticed his tendency to do this. Over and over. Joe Slowboat posted:E: In the interests of actually doing the thing that profile text is there for, and moving on: I was actually really heartened to see people not letting Zak's defenders get away with their bullshit even in the OSR subreddit. So while most of the OSR figures who've made statements have made pretty bad ones (and that Raggi statement is just atrocious) there does seem to be some RPG Me Too movement in that sphere as well. Which, if nothing else, seems like a good sign for the OSR maybe not being a permanent pit of despair like I've gotten used to? Generally Zak was never all that popular a figure to begin with. He had an orbit of cultists and people who would defend him on reflex, but most people weren't invested in him as a person or even as a creator. Generally, people on the internet frown on domestic abuse and are willing to believe testimony from a victim. I mean, it's not like Zak wasn't suspected of having personality disorders even by his former defenders, either.
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Feb 20, 2019 22:52
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LatwPIAT posted:and burned Plague of Hats' career to ashes for resigning over the Abyssals preview. I'd be curious to hear more about this, and from whom it comes. Unless it's just more 4chan fantasies about my troubled marriage or whatever. But I'd rather Holden keep me out of his rallying cries.
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Feb 20, 2019 23:17
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LatwPIAT posted:AHolden further claims that Rich Thomas [url=https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/11856035/]snubbed him out of a Werewolf 20 author's copy Hey, I know about this. And, surprise surprise, Holden is full of poo poo. What he says happened is at best a gross misrepresentation. Which I know because I was one of the people who helped sorted out comp copies for all the W20 writers. Which were late, but they were absolutely not deliberately late and the idea that Rich tried to stiff us on purpose is loving laughable and prt of his ongoing persecution complex.
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Feb 20, 2019 23:24
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That Old Tree posted:I'd be curious to hear more about this, and from whom it comes. Unless it's just more 4chan fantasies about my troubled marriage or whatever. But I'd rather Holden keep me out of his rallying cries. From what I remember hearing from people who were in OPP at the time that weren't working on Exalted, it was just "Rich Thomas was pissed off that you quit mid-project after months of unexplained radio silence, and that if you hadn't quit the dude was gonna fire you anyways." You burnt a lot of bridges all at once supposedly, enough that people who were willing to work with you before on non-Exalted stuff if you only resigned weren't exactly feeling it after. Bedlamdan fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Feb 20, 2019 |
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Feb 20, 2019 23:36
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That duck loving owns Also, what is the deal with RPGPundit? Is he a sex pest or something? I'm not familiar with him but am curious since people here seem to hate him.
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Feb 20, 2019 23:50
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Finster Dexter posted:That duck loving owns It's a good duck Finster Dexter posted:Also, what is the deal with RPGPundit? Is he a sex pest or something? I'm not familiar with him but am curious since people here seem to hate him. As far as we know he's just a pipe-smoking madman who obsesses over people ruining the hobby without having done anything verifiably criminal as of yet.
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Feb 20, 2019 23:53
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Is he like a gatekeeper for OSR or anything?
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Feb 20, 2019 23:55
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Finster Dexter posted:That duck loving owns I spent 30 seconds checking out his twitter, and I can confidently say: dude's a chud.
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Feb 20, 2019 23:58
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Finster Dexter posted:Is he like a gatekeeper for OSR or anything? He tries very, very hard to be. It basically got to the point where the old grognards.txt threads wouldn't stop posting text walls from this guy verbatim. But as far as anyone has claimed, he's scummy, and an rear end in a top hat, but thus far not outright criminal.
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Feb 20, 2019 23:59
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Pundit runs therpgsite.com and believes that anything he labels a story game is literally part of a Marxist plot to destroy RPGs. He is also obsessed with Hunter Thompson.
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Feb 21, 2019 00:18
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That Old Tree posted:I'd be curious to hear more about this, and from whom it comes. Unless it's just more 4chan fantasies about my troubled marriage or whatever. But I'd rather Holden keep me out of his rallying cries. It's what Holden claims. You have an account on SV so you could always just ask Holden where he got it, though as a moderator I should probably not encourage too much cross-forum bitterness or something? I'm glad to hear your side of the story, though. It's all too easy to take these things at face value when I should be approaching them with extreme skepticism.
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Feb 21, 2019 00:24
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neaden posted:Pundit runs therpgsite.com and believes that anything he labels a story game is literally part of a Marxist plot to destroy RPGs. He is also obsessed with Hunter Thompson. Isn't his favorite game Amber diceless?
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Feb 21, 2019 00:35
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fosborb posted:Isn't his favorite game Amber diceless? Pundit is a land of contrasts.
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Feb 21, 2019 00:44
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fosborb posted:Isn't his favorite game Amber diceless? The "Swine" aren't actually people who prefer narrative mechanics over simulationist crunch. It's people(mostly women) who want elfgames to be less racist and sexist.
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Feb 21, 2019 00:58
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Blue Rose's magic deer was IIRC the hill he decided to die on over on rpg,net
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Feb 21, 2019 01:04
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Angrymog posted:Blue Rose's magic deer was IIRC the hill he decided to die on over on rpg,net Among generally being such a relentlessly argumentative rear end in a top hat that nobody could stand to deal with him, yes. He coined the term "venisonocracy" which to this day remains the only good thing he's ever come up with.
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Feb 21, 2019 01:13
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Joe Slowboat posted:E: In the interests of actually doing the thing that profile text is there for, and moving on: I was actually really heartened to see people not letting Zak's defenders get away with their bullshit even in the OSR subreddit. I found this extremely reassuring. It looks for the world like Zak launched two more sockpuppets at them since his ban, but they both got rejected pretty hard. Interestingly, he provided unsolicited photos of women holding dated username signs, and both do a full on "No I swear I'm not a sockpuppet" as they then go on to tell us how Zak actually feels about things. I love the concept of OSR games - they hit me hard in the nostalgia. But the fact that the community tolerated (or were) lovely abuse-golems kept me the fuuuck away from that scene for ages. Now? I'm feeling pretty good about them.
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Feb 21, 2019 01:28
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Bedlamdan posted:It is a very cute duck though, and its presence is soothing to me. The duckling soothes me, and makes me read everything you say in an adorable whiny squeak. Finster Dexter posted:Is he like a gatekeeper for OSR or anything? TheRPGPundit is the type of guy who saw #gamergate and the alt-right roll around and embraced both fully because they espoused the same rhetoric (SJW conspiracies to undermine traditional society, oversensitive snowflakes censoring his right to ~free speech~, namby-pamby-feeling-games taking over the space real men like him carved out after being cast out from society by jocks, etc.) that he'd been ranting about for years before. He used to love making up his own bizarre words for it. Rules-light and narrative-focused games were the games of Swine. Overreactive, identity-policing people further left than him were Pseudo-activist Swine. He's OSR-adjacent by virtue of largely disliking the direction of modern tabletop game design. He's basically Alex Jones if you took away all the success and influence on rightwing American discourse and subbed in an obsession with pipe tobacco and irrelevant nerd hobbies. He's been agitating for a D&Dgate for a while, but so far hasn't managed to get anything going. e- Kai Tave posted:Among generally being such a relentlessly argumentative rear end in a top hat that nobody could stand to deal with him, yes. He coined the term "venisonocracy" which to this day remains the only good thing he's ever come up with. He was insistent that he loved the True20 rules and hated the setting. Because the setting is meant to be Mercedes Lackey: The RPG, a world with fairly equal gender roles, gay and lesbian representation, and an optimistic approach to fantasy and magic. The fact that a magic deer would come around to choose the next monarch as a symbol of divine right to rule was deeply illogical to him. As you know, stories and myths never use divine creatures/objects to anoint the next ruler and no modern traditions are rooted in similar ceremonies. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Feb 21, 2019 |
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Feb 21, 2019 01:38
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Kai Tave posted:Among generally being such a relentlessly argumentative rear end in a top hat that nobody could stand to deal with him, yes. He coined the term "venisonocracy" which to this day remains the only good thing he's ever come up with. oh my god THAT's where that comes from
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Feb 21, 2019 01:46
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Would someone be willing to PM me a summary of what's been happening with Zak S over the last few months(?) as well as some of the other names mentioned over the last few pages? Raggi, Holden, Shearer, Morke at the least because I haven't been involved with tabletop gaming as a hobby other than very casually for more than five years now. I would appreciate some help putting some of the recent discussion in context. I get that the hobby is having a Me Too moment but I don't know any of the specific people involved anymore. Thanks in advance.
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Feb 21, 2019 01:53
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The thread already knows how much of the RPG Pundit is a dick, but here's another example anyway https://twitter.com/Arr_Roo/status/1073004263410987008
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Feb 21, 2019 01:54
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LatwPIAT posted:It's what Holden claims. You have an account on SV so you could always just ask Holden where he got it, though as a moderator I should probably not encourage too much cross-forum bitterness or something? I did go silent shortly after the Kickstarter, due to the encounter that led me to quit. It was a week or two before he even contacted me, but the norm was for me to not hear from him for weeks at a time, unless I specifically talked to him first. And sometimes he wouldn't respond for a week or more. I stewed for another week or two, then emailed all the writers and Rich that I quit. I was pretty polite and said something along the lines of "no hard feelings" but that was obviously a lie. I also assured Rand and I think Lea that I would still do layout on the Nobilis 2e PDF, which I was in the middle of, but then I disappeared completely for a few months to be severely depressed. I've never been directly in contact with Rich except the one pitiful contract he emailed me for a fifth of the words I wrote on Shards (the blame for which I am not willing to lay at anyone's feet in specific, because I don't know), and a very brief, cordial interaction at GenCon 50. I don't know what he knew about an offer I was made to write on something a while after I quit, but I declined that offer anyway. To be clear, I wouldn't blame him at all for never wanting to see me again after I quit, and doubly so for the way I fell over the cliff after that. The reason I pause at "burning my career to the ground" is because I didn't pursue one after quitting, so it's not like Rich ever did anything to hamper me, and he had every right to anyway with the way I acted. So it'd be cool for Holden to not make me a bullet point in his list of grievances against other people, if he's been doing that. Edit: And please don't take this as me roundly condemning Holden's lack of communication. I'm bad at keeping in touch, too. But holy poo poo was it a two-way street. That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Feb 21, 2019 |
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Feb 21, 2019 02:05
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So here's the core problem with Holden's behavior. Holden presents himself on social media as someone who can be trusted to signal boost survivors and name names in an industry that all too often shelters abusers. That is his brand on Twitter now, and how a lot of people first come into contact with him. Regardless of how well known he thinks Morke's past transgressions are, the reality is many of the people he's reaching and interacting with don't know Morke from Adam. When Holden is cagey or outright trivializes what Morke has done, a lot of people don't have any context to put that in. They just have him saying Morke "made some mistakes" - if they even see and digest those statements as they come across the feed. And then they have him signal boosting Morke's Patreon and other work. And that's really dangerous. We have zero evidence of an apology from Morke or actual changes in behavior, of any attempts at restorative action. He's just "stepped away from the community." Even Holden's rose-colored characterizations make it sound very much like Morke doesn't think he did anything wrong - or at least, nothing serious. That means Morke still has to be considered a missing stair and potential abuser and harasser. Holden's view is that because he is trying to "rehab" Morke and keeping an eye on him in some fashion, then he can make sure Morke stays on the straight and narrow. That is, bluntly, absurd. Even if Holden is entirely sincere in this desire, he cannot observe every interaction Morke has, especially when he is pointing people towards venues where Morke has control of how engagements occur. Considering how much of his audience are survivors or otherwise vulnerable, that is quite simply unacceptable. When he points people to Morke's Patreon, he is pointing under-informed, at-risk people towards a high risk situation. Worse his presentation on social media is such that many of those people are going to - reasonably - assume that it's not a risky situation. It's possible that Holden doesn't realize this, that he hasn't made the connection. That's not a sufficient defense. Whether he likes it or not, this is the position he has put himself in. That comes with real responsibilities, ones he is failing at. Holden has stated before that he feels responsible for Morke in some ways, and the reasons given aren't entirely bogus. But that responsibility Holden feels conflicts with the responsibilities he has towards his social media audience. Stating that he has to pick between those responsibilities isn't a scorched Earth zero-tolerance stance. It's a basic ethical requirement for someone in his position. It also creates a significant trust problem. So far we have a set of cases where Holden will loudly call out abusers, and a case where he not only won't call out them but minimize their behavior. The difference is that the first set of people are strangers or at most acquaintances, and the second set is a friend of his who he knew before the allegations were public. That's a huge issue. We know about Morke. Yes, it's possible Morke is a singular case, an exceptional error. But we don't know that. All we have to go on is what he did with the one known example where the abuser was his friend. And that example is a red flag. We don't know what Holden would do if similar things come to light about a different friend of his. We don't know if there's anyone else right now. And we have reason to suspect Holden himself wouldn't tell us. An even worse scenario goes back to Holden's social media position. He's made it likely that a survivor would come to him in the future. That, again, comes with a responsibility to be forthright and open about what he is told and what his connection to accused parties is. And we again have an example where he is being anything but. Those are just the most basic problems. It doesn't get into anything Holden, himself, has done. And as I said before, it is entirely possible Holden is being completely sincere about trying to protect others and call abusers to account. Frankly I don't care and neither should anyone else. As a community we put way too much stock into sincerity. What matters is what he is doing, and what he is doing is dangerous.
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Feb 21, 2019 02:26
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Anyone have a good RPG system that isnt made by rapists/rape apologists
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Feb 21, 2019 02:28
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Control Volume posted:Anyone have a good RPG system that isnt made by rapists/rape apologists That being said to the best of my knowledge Apocalypse World, Dungeon World, Fellowship, Panic at the Disco, the Black Hack, the Fragged games, Blades in the Dark, Scum & Villainy, LANCER, Patrol, Mouse Guard, Breakfast Cult and some others are made by people who haven't assaulted anyone or are writing apologia for someone who has. So it's more a matter of what kind of game you're looking for. In the interest of full disclosure Ettin and Open Sketchbook are also responsible for Two Peeps and Seat which is definitely a crime of some sort but they're good people.
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Feb 21, 2019 02:33
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I think a few came up not too long ago, at least as far as I know, 13th age which is as someone else said is about as close you can get to being D&D without being D&D (I think it was made by designers of D&D 3rd and 4th editions), and is pretty good. It's one of my favorites. Not perfect, but it has some neat additions like escalation and Icons. Also, I've found it's really easy to put together on the fly encounters and modify monsters. Powered by the Apolocypse (PbtA) is much lighter mechanics, and is pretty good as well. There's a lot of different setting flavors for it. (the pro wreslting rulebook one is pretty fun) And in the middle mechanically, FATE is good too (though I thought maybe there was something brought up about one of the designers of FATE here?)
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Feb 21, 2019 02:34
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It was mostly a glib joke but 13th age was the one that was more about social situations than fighting right? I keep on looking that one up, going "yes this is the rpg for me" and then immediately forgetting about it but maybe this time itll stick.
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Feb 21, 2019 02:36
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Control Volume posted:It was mostly a glib joke but 13th age was the one that was more about social situations than fighting right? I keep on looking that one up, going "yes this is the rpg for me" and then immediately forgetting about it but maybe this time itll stick. Nah, it definitely has a lot more wordspace spent on combat than on social stuff, which is treated pretty darn freeform.
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Feb 21, 2019 02:37
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Control Volume posted:It was mostly a glib joke but 13th age was the one that was more about social situations than fighting right? I keep on looking that one up, going "yes this is the rpg for me" and then immediately forgetting about it but maybe this time itll stick. as Mors said, 13th age is fairly combat heavy. If you're looking for a non-combat oriented RPG that's more on puzzle solving, the FATE-based semi-official "Myst" RPG Unwritten: Adventures in the ages of MYST and beyond has no mechanics/skills for combat, and it's assumed problems are solved non-violently.
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Feb 21, 2019 02:40
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Control Volume posted:It was mostly a glib joke but 13th age was the one that was more about social situations than fighting right? I keep on looking that one up, going "yes this is the rpg for me" and then immediately forgetting about it but maybe this time itll stick. 13th Age is largely an attempt to try and make a 4th Edition D&D that didn't have all the baggage of people bitching about : being forced to play on a grid "all classes are the same" (just because they're all on the same resource system) too much math over 30 levels I would say it achieves most of these goals, and while there are some flaws in the game, it's still a drat sight better than most editions of D&D, but as a D&D derivative itself, there's still a lot of emphasis on fighting and killing dudes.
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Feb 21, 2019 02:41
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| # ? May 23, 2024 15:21 |
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Control Volume posted:It was mostly a glib joke but 13th age was the one that was more about social situations than fighting right? I keep on looking that one up, going "yes this is the rpg for me" and then immediately forgetting about it but maybe this time itll stick.
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Feb 21, 2019 02:42
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