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Sakurazuka posted:If you didn't shoot off the bosses big gun, pick it up and blast him in the face with it you didn't do the boss properly. That was cool, but I need to see how the final game plays. Im getting like freedom wars vibes from the demo of like impossibly bad story segments in between loot grinding missions on small desert maps. Like why in this demo did they put a 5+ minute conversation where a dude tells a black guy that graffiti and hiphop aren't art? Is that selling copies? Idk.
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Feb 21, 2019 16:35
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al-azad posted:I do think there's this mid-game lull in HK where the game stops feeding you breadcrumbs. I remember my path was something like finish the city the first time, discover that glass mine that doesn't really go anywhere, get the first small key and go to the city waterways which is hard as gently caress and scary and leads to the dung beetle boss (easy) and grub queen (really drat hard), go down deeper into this area that's just covered with spikes like a Celeste level and no quick travel or saves, go back to the city to fight the soul wizard(?) who is also a suddenly hard and unexpected boss, just kind of meander around until fighting the mantis lords, finally stumbling on Deepnest and HEY PLAYER YOU FOUND THE PLOT AGAIN now welcome to the worst level lol Deepnest owns though. It was also pretty much the last zone I did since I just stumbled upon it (and Mantis lords) after doing almost everything else. I kind of don't understand what you mean with the YOU FOUND THE PLOT AGAIN thing regarding deepnest.
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Feb 21, 2019 16:46
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ironically the royal waterways was one of the last areas i explored in the game because i am perpetually seized by a desire to poke my nose where it doesn't belong yet. ask me about getting to the top of crystal peak without the double jump.
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Feb 21, 2019 16:47
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Anyway the first reply told me to play Spelunky first so I will probably bang my head on that first, and when I eventually quit out of frustration I will dive into HK next.
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Feb 21, 2019 16:50
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Nate RFB posted:Anyway the first reply told me to play Spelunky first so I will probably bang my head on that first, and when I eventually quit out of frustration I will dive into HK next. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqk5Zf0tw3o Watch this if you want to see why Spelunky is so highly regarded.
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Feb 21, 2019 16:56
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I wish I had stopped playing Hollow Knight after I got the first ending. I really enjoyed my time up to that point and definitely got more than my money's worth out of that, but trying to open up the additional areas and get the other endings turned into an un-fun grind to me. My memory of that game would probably be a lot fonder if I'd quit on a high note instead of trying to grind for something I could just look up on Youtube.A Sometimes Food posted:Hollow Knight is the best metroidvania. HK might be the best metroidvania, but Steamworld Dig 2 is the most fun metroidvania.
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Feb 21, 2019 16:57
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Over There posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqk5Zf0tw3o Derek Yu's book on developing it is very good
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Feb 21, 2019 16:58
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Derek Yu is a very cool fellow and I have eaten up a lot of content he has been in when it comes to talking about the how and why he made his game, you need not convince me of his moxy. I just have never had any interest in rogue-likes/lites. I'm also playing Dead Cells at the moment so that's changing a little bit at least.
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Feb 21, 2019 17:01
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Andrast posted:Deepnest owns though. I don't remember because I stopped playing shortly after but Deepnest was my first encounter with the dreamers or something and the last heavily scripted sequence before that was Hornet telling you to piss off in the city 8 hours ago.
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Feb 21, 2019 17:01
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al-azad posted:I don't remember because I stopped playing shortly after but Deepnest was my first encounter with the dreamers or something and the last heavily scripted sequence before that was Hornet telling you to piss off in the city 8 hours ago. I mean sure, but there is plenty of plot elsewhere too and that dreamer can easily be the last thing you do
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Feb 21, 2019 17:06
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I guess I'll take this occasion to mention that I'm currently giving Hollow Knight another chance after initially bouncing off of it due to a couple things, one of which is the map system which I'm finding less aggravating but still annoying. I did notice they actually changed the obnoxious hitspark on your character so that I can now actually see my character when I get hit. Also will mention that I don't think I saw Quirrel on the path to the Mantis Lords the first time I went through the area to get to them, though after I died once he was suddenly there to tell me about the upgraded Nail on my way back there. I don't think I realized I could have gone across the bridge to the city before fighting them. So far my path was making it through the fungal wastes to the mantis lords, fighting them, taking a brief detour through Deepnest where the map showed me it connects up to another area which I just did that minor portion so I could come back with the lightbug, then basically going clockwise from the start so I ended up already having the flying dash thing and the dream thing and also the actually annoying bit where I entered the city from the back so I didn't get the map until I had basically seen most of the area.
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Feb 21, 2019 17:07
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Phantasium posted:I guess I'll take this occasion to mention that I'm currently giving Hollow Knight another chance after initially bouncing off of it due to a couple things, one of which is the map system which I'm finding less aggravating but still annoying. The Mantis lords are in fact entirely optional. There also like three routes to get to the city (more if you're count sequence breaking). Andrast fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Feb 21, 2019 |
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Feb 21, 2019 17:08
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Andrast posted:I mean sure, but there is plenty of plot elsewhere too and that dreamer can easily be the last thing you do My point is up until the city the game isn't too different from a typical Metroidvania where you can explore side paths but are gated out of most important areas until you clear a zone and acquire a new power that grants you access to somewhere else. In HK the city is where the game straight up turns into King's Field where there are some general barriers like the double jump but the entire map is pretty much available and the game stops dropping hints on where to go next. It's where I lost interest as my only connection for what I needed to do to progress was find Ridley/Kraig/Phantoon but that path led to a level I didn't care for so I just stopped playing.
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Feb 21, 2019 17:26
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It used to be that I would have devoured a game like HK repeatedly and often, like I used to Super Metroid I'm not exactly sure what changed in the intervening years, or if it's just the relatively unguided nature of HK (relative to other current exploration platformers), but I just bounce right off HK every time I try it before I even get to aforesaid city out of sheer boredom (and I've been through most of said city before--didn't change much) Different strokes for different folks so I'm not all that bothered, but it's definitely the first time a popular game in a genre I like has just plain not been a fit
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Feb 21, 2019 17:29
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Honestly my only complaint with HK is, I love spiders, I give the spiders in my house nicknames and find them cool or cute. The spider area in HK made me deeply uncomfortable. Never been bothered by spiders IRL or in fiction before. That area? Hoo boy.
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Feb 21, 2019 17:31
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it definitely took me a while to realize that HK was the best Metroid-ey game I had played in years I think at least half of my playtime or something would say it has some pacing issues but I wonder how trying to tighten it up would mess with the crucial feeling of exploration present in the game Monkey Fracas fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Feb 21, 2019 |
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Feb 21, 2019 17:32
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A Sometimes Food posted:Honestly my only complaint with HK is, I love spiders, I give the spiders in my house nicknames and find them cool or cute. Deepnest is one of my favorite areas in any game. It's just so deeply hostile. You really get the feeling that you are not loving welcome there.
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Feb 21, 2019 17:36
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Almost every time I hear someone bouncing off HK it seemed to stem from thinking being lost for a lot or most of the game was a bad thing. Which is fine in itself, but when that same complaint comes from people who enjoy Metroidvanias prior to HK it feels a little strange. What is it about HK is that much different other than just being so big? I never liked them enough before HK to call myself a fan of the genre, but it turned around for me with something that was built on the best ideas of everything before it and adding in Dark Souls flavor that I could go back and appreciate the pieces of inspiration on their own.
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Feb 21, 2019 17:36
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DOUBLE CLICK HERE posted:Almost every time I hear someone bouncing off HK it seemed to stem from thinking being lost for a lot or most of the game was a bad thing. Which is fine in itself, but when that same complaint comes from people who enjoy Metroidvanias prior to HK it feels a little strange. What is it about HK is that much different other than just being so big? I never liked them enough before HK to call myself a fan of the genre, but it turned around for me with something that was built on the best ideas of everything before it and adding in Dark Souls flavor that I could go back and appreciate the pieces of inspiration on their own. Wish I had a better answer for you on that, but I genuinely don't know myself. I just get bored, and an answer to "why" is elusive. It might be the combat but that's kind of a stretch even in my own head (ed) It could have been the Souls flavoring itself. I didn't end up really liking a single Souls game after DeS and DaS1--only halfway through 2, and I don't even know why I bought 3 because I have like 2 hours playtime Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Feb 21, 2019 |
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Feb 21, 2019 17:42
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I wish they gave you some of the movement abilities in HK a little sooner because it doesn't feel that good until you've got a few of them
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Feb 21, 2019 17:48
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DOUBLE CLICK HERE posted:Almost every time I hear someone bouncing off HK it seemed to stem from thinking being lost for a lot or most of the game was a bad thing. Which is fine in itself, but when that same complaint comes from people who enjoy Metroidvanias prior to HK it feels a little strange. What is it about HK is that much different other than just being so big? I never liked them enough before HK to call myself a fan of the genre, but it turned around for me with something that was built on the best ideas of everything before it and adding in Dark Souls flavor that I could go back and appreciate the pieces of inspiration on their own. being lost wasn't my issue but lack of fast travel points and the trekking through the same routes definitely was. exploration is fun but sometimes I got fatigued going back and forth in some places. tbh this is the same problem I have with Souls games so it's really just my personal gripe. Sometimes I want to explore more in those games but when I have other stuff to do or get tired of playing I'd like having more shortcuts/savepoints. Help Im Alive posted:I wish they gave you some of the movement abilities in HK a little sooner because it doesn't feel that good until you've got a few of them yeah this too, early on it's not as fun until you get the dash and other abilities
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Feb 21, 2019 17:48
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Night in the Woods is $12 right now on Steam. Please buy it.
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Feb 21, 2019 17:51
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DOUBLE CLICK HERE posted:Almost every time I hear someone bouncing off HK it seemed to stem from thinking being lost for a lot or most of the game was a bad thing. Which is fine in itself, but when that same complaint comes from people who enjoy Metroidvanias prior to HK it feels a little strange. What is it about HK is that much different other than just being so big? I never liked them enough before HK to call myself a fan of the genre, but it turned around for me with something that was built on the best ideas of everything before it and adding in Dark Souls flavor that I could go back and appreciate the pieces of inspiration on their own. You're never actually lost in a Metroidvania. There may be optional side areas but unless you're sequence breaking (which requires mastery or foresight of the levels) the game guides you with an invisible hand. Metroid in particular is fond of dropping you in an area you literally can't get out until you find the item at the end of the path, and it's rare for a level to have multiple exits unless it's the center of the map. The formula for Metroid style games is that you'll go through an entire level, get the item at the end, then backtrack through that level to apply your new item or encounter it in a different way. Hollow Knight is more Souls-like than Metroid-like. Areas have multiple exits into other levels and the game is intentionally opaque: case in point, the fungal wastes is really easy to access early in the game but going there through Greenpath leads to a dead end several rooms deep, with no access to a map and that can make someone feel like they've accomplished nothing. It's not as obtuse as La Mulana, but it's still very similar in that it expects you to wander around finding new gizmos at your pace and then returning to previously cleared areas which in a Metroid game would result in a new energy tank or missile but in HK you get entire powerups or even key items necessary to progress. I think HK's biggest fumble is that despite putting around 15 hours into it I never knew what I was actually doing. King's Field tells you "find the moonlight sword" and Demon's Souls gives you a brief video with all the details you need in the tutorial even if the rest of the game's backstory is hidden. Maybe I'll catch on earlier if I replay it but it wasn't until I read Wikipedia that I understood what the knight was trying to accomplish.
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Feb 21, 2019 17:51
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i think the default melee range of the nail is too short
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Feb 21, 2019 17:57
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DOUBLE CLICK HERE posted:Almost every time I hear someone bouncing off HK it seemed to stem from thinking being lost for a lot or most of the game was a bad thing. Which is fine in itself, but when that same complaint comes from people who enjoy Metroidvanias prior to HK it feels a little strange. What is it about HK is that much different other than just being so big? I never liked them enough before HK to call myself a fan of the genre, but it turned around for me with something that was built on the best ideas of everything before it and adding in Dark Souls flavor that I could go back and appreciate the pieces of inspiration on their own.
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Feb 21, 2019 18:02
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Thinking about King's Field and how it kept me engaged despite playing it for the first time only a few years ago. It put the safe haven in the middle of the game so by the time you reach it is when you start unlocking fast travel and it serves as a hub for the entirety of the game. Compare this to Dirtmouth which is disconnected from nearly everything and your only options are fast travel or start at the beginning. Maybe a piece of the city could've served as a second hub because it's basically the center of the map but the city's fast travel point is practically at the very top.
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Feb 21, 2019 18:04
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Honestly the bigness was a turn off for me. I think I got 8 or 10 hours in and heard there were several large areas that I haven't even discovered yet, which made me feel more tired than excited. The Soulsiness of the gameplay may have contributed as well, despite me being a big fan of Dark Souls and Bloodborne.
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Feb 21, 2019 18:04
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Tales of Woe posted:it's not just that it's really big, it's that it's really big without scaling up the progression proportionally. i think it's got fewer progression items than super metroid despite being 5 times the length. so it's much more about the moment to moment gameplay than a metroid game, which isn't really why i play those games.  I think this clarifies in my head why I bounced off HK, so thanks for that  but yeah, I didn't find the moment to moment platforming or combat entertaining at all, so I guess that really was that
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Feb 21, 2019 18:07
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Real hurthling! posted:That was cool, but I need to see how the final game plays. Im getting like freedom wars vibes from the demo of like impossibly bad story segments in between loot grinding missions on small desert maps. Like why in this demo did they put a 5+ minute conversation where a dude tells a black guy that graffiti and hiphop aren't art? Is that selling copies? Idk. i hope you get to blow the poo poo out of the pretentious guy
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Feb 21, 2019 18:15
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Hi I'm a big baby who decided to go out and try to shovel snow and it turned out the thick snow on top was covering a bunch of foot-deep water underneath so I took a step and ended up sinking into cold water and now my feet are numbed and warming up but it's frustrating because shoveling a little bit of snow shouldn't be hard but it's hard to do so when it turns out it's secretly water. Doesn't help that suddenly being in cold water is a trigger for me so that was no fun. Keep warm everybody, hopefully the bad weather lightens up soon.
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Feb 21, 2019 18:24
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I enjoy fumbling around in La-Mulana, but that's not the same sort of thing I feel... Getting stuck there is more about not having figured out various puzzles and trying to keep track of all the hints you have at your disposal. You both are able to get a map early on in every new area almost without trying and don't really ultimately need said map. It's ultimately also not a HUGE game in terms of map size, so even though I got maybe 30 hours into LM2 before I started to get exhausted by not knowing what to do next it never felt tiring to actually traverse anywhere because the footprint is both not that big and you can teleport at any time to a major point in each area.
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Feb 21, 2019 18:25
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FirstAidKite posted:Hi I'm a big baby who decided to go out and try to shovel snow and it turned out the thick snow on top was covering a bunch of foot-deep water underneath so I took a step and ended up sinking into cold water and now my feet are numbed and warming up but it's frustrating because shoveling a little bit of snow shouldn't be hard but it's hard to do so when it turns out it's secretly water. It's okay friend, even in the best of circumstances shoveling snow is very difficult and time consuming. I was having to do this last week in the same conditions plus ice mixed in with the snow and water. :/
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Feb 21, 2019 18:32
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well my chest still feels kind of weird so i've got a doctor's visit scheduled for monday, i hope all you jerks are happy that you've driven me to this
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Feb 21, 2019 18:33
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I love snow but only because I live in Las Vegas and so it is a rare beast indeed I would never want to drive in it or have to deal with a pile of the loving frozen slushy crap
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Feb 21, 2019 18:34
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Cowcaster posted:well my chest still feels kind of weird so i've got a doctor's visit scheduled for monday, i hope all you jerks are happy that you've driven me to this good 
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Feb 21, 2019 18:34
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More games need to follow La-Mulana and just instant warp. As cute as that big beetle is or the 3D spinning coffin in Symphony, I just want to get where I need to be as fast as possible.
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Feb 21, 2019 18:36
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Cowcaster posted:well my chest still feels kind of weird so i've got a doctor's visit scheduled for monday, i hope all you jerks are happy that you've driven me to this Could the mysterious new feeling in your chest be...love?
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Feb 21, 2019 18:38
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gosh i hope not
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Feb 21, 2019 18:40
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Cowcaster posted:well my chest still feels kind of weird so i've got a doctor's visit scheduled for monday, i hope all you jerks are happy that you've driven me to this hopefully it's just a little doki doki
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Feb 21, 2019 18:40
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maybe it’s ringworm
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Feb 21, 2019 18:41
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