Political Cartoons 2019: My Stuggle

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Political Cartoons 2019: My Stuggle

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Somfin posted:

And to the goon who mentioned feminism... Oh you sweet summer child. We will get to feminism.

This is the biggest strike against any "well maybe Rall is just making so subtle a critique of racism that the ironic shade on his protagonist's racist beliefs is almost undetectable" theory because we know exactly what Ted Rall's actual views on women are (specifically yikesyikesyikesyikes), and his regressive misogynistic opinions are played absolutely straight here.

Clever Spambot posted:

Up until this point i actually thought it was doing a thing where gender doesnt matter anymore because everyone looks/acts the same, which isnt uncommon for futuristic takes on society. His awful art style even reinforces it.

In retrospect that was very silly, anyone as hung up on sexuality as rall is also hung up on gender.

He's already brought up at least twice that even talking to a woman who is openly eyefucking you is a crime thanks to oppressive feminazis

# ? Feb 21, 2019 20:52

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 16:24

Clever Spambot: Sep 16, 2009; You've lost that lovin' feeling,
Now it's gone...gone...GONE....

VitalSigns posted:

He's already brought up at least twice that even talking to a woman who is openly eyefucking you is a crime thanks to oppressive feminazis

I suppose thats true, i was being generous and taking it as open flirting was a crime or something, hence all the eyefucking and why he was able to report that one dude who did it to him to the gay police (god this story is dumb).

2 women and 1 guy have eyefucked the protagonist, and we are what like 16 pages in?

edit: for context i follow this thread but normally skip over ralls comics because its always a million words and bad art, so i actually don't know much of his beliefs but based on this book god drat he has some stuff goin on huh?

Clever Spambot fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Feb 21, 2019

# ? Feb 21, 2019 21:05

I dont know: Aug 9, 2003; That Guy here...

Clever Spambot posted:

edit: for context i follow this thread but normally skip over ralls comics because its always a million words and bad art, so i actually don't know much of his beliefs but based on this book god drat he has some stuff goin on huh?

This book is pretty much a concentrated shot of Rall. It's definitely worst getting it all in one dose, but nothing contained is substantially different than any of his other output. There is a reason he is so hated 'round these parts. Rall's weird sexual hangups and misogyny could fill a textbook by itself.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 21:18

Somfin: Oct 25, 2010; In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.; Nap Ghost

VitalSigns posted:

his regressive misogynistic opinions are played absolutely straight here.

Once we hit that, remind me to throw in a quick diatribe about Big Lie science fiction and why "it's dystopian" doesn't loving fly with Ralltopian feminism

# ? Feb 21, 2019 21:19

Lightning Knight: Feb 24, 2012; Pray for Answer

The comic proves if nothing else the idea that Rall is not poo poo because he works for Sputnik lol. He�s just actually like that.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 21:20

InsertPotPun: Apr 16, 2018; Pissy Bitch stan

Lightning Knight posted:

The comic proves if nothing else the idea that Rall is not poo poo because he works for Sputnik lol. He�s just actually like that.

This one piece of proof that he's a garbage person is only backed up by literally everything else he's ever done.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 21:46

Tibalt: May 14, 2017; What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee

I think my problem with Rall is that he's had (the indie alt-comix version of) massive success, to the point where he's actually managed to penetrate the mainstream. Sure, he's no Spiegelman or Crumb, but my mom recognizes his art and is vaguely aware of him. He was* a mainstay if the weekly alt mags, with national syndication like Dykes to Watch Out For or Keith Knight. Edit: weekly alt magazines don't exist anymore and I'm dating myself pretty hard here.

And it's absolutely clear that it's completely unearned. He didn't choose and refine his style, it's the limits of technical ability. He has no strong message, just insipid drivel. He's an ethically and artistically bankrupt puke, he somehow conned his way into the number two spot - and has the ball to be offended that someone else is number one.

Rall is worse than Kinkade, because at least Kinkade paid his artists.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 22:05

GyroNinja: Nov 7, 2012

Lightning Knight posted:

The comic proves if nothing else the idea that Rall is not poo poo because he works for Sputnik lol. He�s just actually like that.

Yeah, Sputnik definitely hired Rall because he is poo poo, not the other way around.

Personally, if I were a nominally left wing artist, and the state media apparatus of a right wing authoritarian regime told me they wanted to sponsor me, and that my work was perfect as is and didn't need any changes, I would probably consider that a good reason for some self-reflection, but obviously I'm not Ted Rall.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 22:18

Somfin: Oct 25, 2010; In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.; Nap Ghost

GyroNinja posted:

Yeah, Sputnik definitely hired Rall because he is poo poo, not the other way around.

Personally, if I were a nominally left wing artist, and the state media apparatus of a right wing authoritarian regime told me they wanted to sponsor me, and that my work was perfect as is and didn't need any changes, I would probably consider that a good reason for some self-reflection, but obviously I'm not Ted Rall.

He already took his repeated invites to be The Liberal on a Fox News discussion as proof that the network wasn't so bad and thought that they respected his intellect

# ? Feb 21, 2019 22:20

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

InsertPotPun posted:

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/glybera

I need you to view this story with a more critical eye. It's exclusively citing people who stand to benefit from the product's re-entry. The US has an entire orphan drug pathway for this category of product. This story doesn't even touch the entire US approvals process.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 23:20

InsertPotPun: Apr 16, 2018; Pissy Bitch stan

Discendo Vox posted:

I need you to view this story with a more critical eye. It's exclusively citing people who stand to benefit from the product's re-entry. The US has an entire orphan drug pathway for this category of product. This story doesn't even touch the entire US approvals process.

Oh? May I hear more?

# ? Feb 21, 2019 23:25

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

All material from that story indicates the company was incompetent, not trying to suppress a cure. Europe has a generally lighter regulatory clearance burden than the United States. The condition the medication was created to treat does not appear to have some sort of prescription ongoing treatment.

The US has orphan drug programs intended to incentivize and fund the development of cures for rare diseases. The FDA has also already approved a number of gene therapy products.

Gene therapy has been an actively pursued goldmine for pharma industry for years. The initial wave of enthusiasm for it was dampened by a horrific death during clinical trials in 1999. The breaches of medical ethics in that case were field-defining for bioethics. Gene therapy products also turned out to require much more precursor tech than was available back then, but it's now starting to enter the market again.

The author of the article got a bunch of people who were hoping to re-enter the product to the market to speak on the record, then spun the article about product licensing abuses. Which is a genuine problem, but...again, the article is specifically about European approvals, and that's not generally the gold market for new treatments.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 23:36

InsertPotPun: Apr 16, 2018; Pissy Bitch stan

Discendo Vox posted:

All material from that story indicates the company was incompetent, not trying to suppress a cure. Europe has a generally lighter regulatory clearance burden than the United States. The condition the medication was created to treat does not appear to have some sort of prescription ongoing treatment.

The US has orphan drug programs intended to incentivize and fund the development of cures for rare diseases. The FDA has also already approved a number of gene therapy products.

Gene therapy has been an actively pursued goldmine for pharma industry for years. The initial wave of enthusiasm for it was dampened by a horrific death during clinical trials in 1999. The breaches of medical ethics in that case were field-defining for bioethics. Gene therapy products also turned out to require much more precursor tech than was available back then, but it's now starting to enter the market again.

The author of the article got a bunch of people who were hoping to re-enter the product to the market to speak on the record, then spun the article about product licensing abuses. Which is a genuine problem, but...again, the article is specifically about European approvals, and that's not generally the gold market for new treatments.

But if the company makes the price too high to be affordable doesn't that suppress it?
They even justify the price with the line ""It's not a crazy price," he said. "People say it's the most expensive drug in the world and what have you, but in the end, all of these products, even priced at $1 million, are going to be generally cheaper than replacement therapy" because "Unlike Glybera, most replacement therapies must be given for the rest of a patient's life. Many of those drugs cost more than $300,000 per patient per year."
""Van Deventer says the company never considered lowering the price. Why would we? Pricing shouldn't be a political decision. It should be a rational decision based on merits and values," he said. "Hundreds of millions of investor money has gone into the company, and if there is no return for those investments, there will be no new drugs because nobody's going to do that in the future, right?""

I mean it honestly looks like they made a cure and then priced it super high because "what are you gonna do about it" and then took the cure off the shelf due to "lack of interest".

quote:

In a perfect world, van Deventer says, Glybera would still be on the market.
"It's a shame because it does work and I think people accept that it works and it should have been a product for sure."
But he said the costs for uniQure were too high.
"You need to maintain the factory, you need to do the paperwork, you need to test the product, you need to make new product batches all the time because product expires," he said.

Luckily no other products need factories or paperwork. Nothing else needs testing or ever goes bad. Just this one

I'm not trying to fight, this is just what it looks like to me.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 23:45

Feinne: Oct 9, 2007; When you fall, get right back up again.

Discendo Vox posted:

All material from that story indicates the company was incompetent, not trying to suppress a cure. Europe has a generally lighter regulatory clearance burden than the United States. The condition the medication was created to treat does not appear to have some sort of prescription ongoing treatment.

The US has orphan drug programs intended to incentivize and fund the development of cures for rare diseases. The FDA has also already approved a number of gene therapy products.

Gene therapy has been an actively pursued goldmine for pharma industry for years. The initial wave of enthusiasm for it was dampened by a horrific death during clinical trials in 1999. The breaches of medical ethics in that case were field-defining for bioethics. Gene therapy products also turned out to require much more precursor tech than was available back then, but it's now starting to enter the market again.

The author of the article got a bunch of people who were hoping to re-enter the product to the market to speak on the record, then spun the article about product licensing abuses. Which is a genuine problem, but...again, the article is specifically about European approvals, and that's not generally the gold market for new treatments.

FDA suggests here that "Gene therapy, such as Glybera (gene replacement for lipoprotein lipase), failed to show sustained efficacy and only addressed a fraction of the FCS population; that is, those with lipoprotein lipase deficiency. Consequently, Glybera was never approved in the US and was withdrawn from the European market." This from an advisory meeting on what is as far as I can tell as treatment for the same thing.

So FDA is suggesting that Glybera was kind of poo poo and that's a contributing factor to its withdrawal.

InsertPotPun posted:

Luckily no other products need factories or paperwork. Nothing else needs testing or ever goes bad. Just this one

I'm not trying to fight, this is just what it looks like to me.

Those things in fact do all cost quite a bit of money, especially the testing, and I have no idea what the product stability looks like. Poor sales on a low-stability product is a sure way to get it canned.

Feinne fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Feb 21, 2019

# ? Feb 21, 2019 23:48

InsertPotPun: Apr 16, 2018; Pissy Bitch stan

Feinne posted:

Those things in fact do all cost quite a bit of money, especially the testing, and I have no idea what the product stability looks like. Poor sales on a low-stability product is a sure way to get it canned.

But the "poor sales" directly related to the high cost. They priced it so high that no one wanted to pay for it. And they know that that's the reason but justify the high price by naming the same things all products deal with. The price of Corn Flakes is related to the factories and paperwork and testing and sell by dates.

quote:

In April 2017, just two years after it first went on the market, Chiesi announced it was abandoning Glybera. The company allowed the European marketing licence to expire.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 00:06

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Also the high price wasn't justified by the cost of drug trials and approval.

The article specifically asked an executive why it was so expensive, and his answer had nothing to do with recouping expenditures, it was based on the opportunity cost of not being able to bilk patients for a lifetime of treatment at $300,000/yr if you cure them.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 00:18

Feinne: Oct 9, 2007; When you fall, get right back up again.

InsertPotPun posted:

But the "poor sales" directly related to the high cost. They priced it so high that no one wanted to pay for it. And they know that that's the reason but justify the high price by naming the same things all products deal with. The price of Corn Flakes is related to the factories and paperwork and testing and sell by dates.

I'm not sure what their sinister motive was to take a massive bath on a product that probably didn't recoup the cost to manufacture what they did make, never mind development and testing, but okay.

VitalSigns posted:

Also the high price wasn't justified by the cost of drug trials and approval.

The article specifically asked an executive why it was so expensive, and his answer had nothing to do with recouping expenditures, it was based on the opportunity cost of not being able to bilk patients for a lifetime of treatment at $300,000/yr if you cure them.

This is a much better point, the price was almost definitely inflated because it was a one-time treatment.

Feinne fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Feb 22, 2019

# ? Feb 22, 2019 00:21

InsertPotPun: Apr 16, 2018; Pissy Bitch stan

Feinne posted:

I'm not sure what their sinister motive was to take a massive bath on a product that probably didn't recoup the cost to manufacture what they did make, never mind development and testing, but okay.

quote:

In the 2 1/2 years it took to win EMA approval, AMT, which had no other products to sell and no revenue from Glybera, lost millions of dollars. The company was formally liquidated in 2012. Its assets were acquired by a new private company, uniQure.

quote:

Kastelein was also shocked by the price, which he first heard about from a German colleague who wanted to prescribe the drug for a patient.

"The problem is, with people like me and Michael Hayden, we never have any say about pricing," he said. "By the time there's a pricing, we're gone already. We've done the science and the clinical work and everything, and then it's the commercial and financial people that determine the price."

quote:

The decision to price Glybera at $1 million was based on a business calculation, according to van Deventer.

To set a price, they compared Glybera to other drugs that treat rare diseases.

Because Glybera is a one-time treatment that can last at least 10 years (according to patient data collected so far), the $1-million price seemed reasonable, van Deventer said.

"It's not a crazy price," he said. "People say it's the most expensive drug in the world and what have you, but in the end, all of these products, even priced at $1 million, are going to be generally cheaper than replacement therapy."

But please supply any links you have.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 00:29

Feinne: Oct 9, 2007; When you fall, get right back up again.

InsertPotPun posted:

But please supply any links you have.

I mean again FDA suggests it was withdrawn because it wasn't actually a reliable cure for the disorder in question, which is also why they never approved it.

To be clear Glybera treats a rare cause of an already extremely rare disorder. And according to FDA, there wasn't enough data to suggest it did even that well.

Like I agree with you that ideally things that could potentially help people should be on the market and should not cost way loving lots of money, but it sounds like both FDA and HealthCanada weren't big fans of this stuff (and there'd be good reason for HealthCanada to be interested given there's a high incidence of FCS in Quebec).

Feinne fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Feb 22, 2019

# ? Feb 22, 2019 00:45

Bombadilillo: Feb 28, 2009; The dock really fucks a case or nerfing it.

Ugh. I'd have to search for the stuff.

But if they abandon the cure then it becomes fair use and others can generic it. (Others can generic it eventually)

So selling for 1mil is the pharma equivalent of making GBS threads out a bad fantastic 4 movie to keep the liscence

# ? Feb 22, 2019 01:34

Sandpuppy: Jun 16, 2012; Social Abscess
of the
Universe

17
SOME GITMO

# ? Feb 22, 2019 01:35

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

Sandpuppy posted:

SOME GITMO

That hackneyed, tired old cartoon was worth it for this pun :allears:

# ? Feb 22, 2019 01:39

Technowolf: Nov 4, 2009

Sandpuppy posted:

12

# ? Feb 22, 2019 01:41

chairface: Oct 28, 2007; No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

Sandpuppy posted:

9

Cadet Bonespurs can't handle the Sandman's timing changes, especially on the triple uppercut. He really should've known something was up when Bernie got up on a 1 count and grinned at him.

VVVVVV: Horsey, while Very Stupid, is not Always Wrong.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 01:44

Jay Rust: Sep 27, 2011

Yeah what is Horsey�s point? Are we meant to disagree with the dude�s righteous anger?

# ? Feb 22, 2019 01:45

Lightning Knight: Feb 24, 2012; Pray for Answer

Sandpuppy posted:

10

AGC

# ? Feb 22, 2019 01:47

GATOS Y VATOS: Aug 22, 2002

ChaseSP posted:

https://gfycat.com/openbetterhypsilophodon this was a monster of the week.

lol that was from Danger 5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z09bNgSeMI

# ? Feb 22, 2019 01:54

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

This whole Jussie Smollett thing comes at the right time to avoid having to talk about Christopher Paul Hasson.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 02:02

Jerusalem: May 20, 2004; Would you be my new best friends?

chairface posted:

He really should've known something was up when Bernie got up on a 1 count and grinned at him.

Remember the look on Mitt Romney's face when Obama hit him with "Proceed, Governor :smug:

"? God I still smile thinking back on that.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 02:19

KillerQueen: Jul 13, 2010

Sandpuppy posted:

16

Die in a fire, nazi.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 02:25

InsertPotPun: Apr 16, 2018; Pissy Bitch stan

Cat Mattress posted:

This whole Jussie Smollett thing comes at the right time to avoid having to talk about Christopher Paul Hasson.

If it wasn't him it would be something else. The type of people taking glee at the Smollet thing are the type of people that would NEVER admit a hate crime problem so who gives a gently caress what they think?
Except one of them IS THE loving PRESIDENT.

But for those of them that aren't all this really does is delay their smug smile.

It USED to be: "So-called 'hate crimes' are usually hoaxes :smuggo:

"
NOW it's: "So-called 'hate crimes' are usually hoaxes. Remember that actor? :smuggo:

I know when I'M innocent my first defense isn't "but the crimes I did could have been so much worse" but hey, let's see how it goes.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 02:32

T-man: Aug 22, 2010; Talk shit, get bzzzt.

Sandpuppy posted:

17
SOME GITMO

This is a horrible cartoon. I mean, if you have that VR thing in front of your eyes, you can't see the screen you're holding anymore. Do they control what the VR helmet shows? How do they know what buttons they're pressing?!

also it's a bit distasteful to compare american torture camps to SOME GIZMO but as a goon I care more about the tech poo poo

# ? Feb 22, 2019 02:37

frankenfreak: Feb 16, 2007; I SCORED 85% ON A QUIZ ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT RAW AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY TEXT

#bastionboogerbrigade

Sandpuppy posted:

12

So Horsey is now suddenly pro-guillotines, huh? :thunk:

quote:

SOME GITMO

# ? Feb 22, 2019 02:44

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Jay Rust posted:

Yeah what is Horsey�s point? Are we meant to disagree with the dude�s righteous anger?

I'm pretty sure Horsey is arguing we should be setting Amazon on fire.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 02:47

Lightning Knight: Feb 24, 2012; Pray for Answer

SirSamVimes posted:

I'm pretty sure Horsey is arguing we should be setting Amazon on fire.

Horsey�s stance is that Amazon is evil and bad and wrong but if you generalize their behavior to other businesses that�s simply going too far.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 02:58

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; This does not make sense when, again, aggregate indicia also indicate improvements. The belief that things are worse is false. It remains false.

InsertPotPun I already explained why that article is no good as a source. The company that purchased the rights to the drug does not have a competing interest in other treatment products. The product never entered US approvals, which I already explained have policies to address this, especially in the biologics sector. It's not an example of the conspiracy theory you are trying to support.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 03:29

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

Sandpuppy posted:

4

No ring.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 03:37

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Jay Rust posted:

Yeah what is Horsey�s point? Are we meant to disagree with the dude�s righteous anger?

It seems like we're supposed to agree with his righteous anger and desire to make Amazon pay some taxes in the abstract, but according to his other work we should not actually do anything whatsoever to make Amazon pay any taxes because that's so mean to business.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 03:38