The Web Design & Development Megathread

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Tei: Feb 19, 2011

Nolgthorn posted:

My understanding was edge was a rewrite from scratch

I don't think is a full rewrite.

Google for "ie and edge bug" theres many hits. Both codebases share many bugs. This imply that share code, or the code new code was written the same way the old code.

But this is my gut feelings. I don't have a smoking gun.

# ? Feb 8, 2019 15:36

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# ? May 29, 2024 19:20

Munkeymon: Aug 14, 2003; Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.

IIRC the Edge renderer (that they're dropping for Chrome's lol :sigh:

) is based on Trident but significantly rewritten for standards compatibility.

# ? Feb 8, 2019 15:46

Bruegels Fuckbooks: Sep 14, 2004; Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

Nolgthorn posted:

My understanding was edge was a rewrite from scratch, they ditched all backwards compatibility for ie stuffs

Edge was mostly "gently caress supporting activex controls and every version of the IE standards from 5-11." It was still based off trident renderer as mentioned.

# ? Feb 8, 2019 16:22

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

Nolgthorn posted:

I've found edge in a lot of cases works better than chrome or other competitors, it's got features and speed. I'm sure there are reasons for switching to webpack but it sure seems like it's going to delay their minimal 64-bit-only Windows Lite project. As webpack is still 32-bit.

Chromium, not webpack, is the word you're looking for.

# ? Feb 8, 2019 19:31

NtotheTC: Dec 31, 2007

Thermopyle posted:

Chromium, not webpack, is the word you're looking for.

Thank christ I thought I was having a stroke

# ? Feb 8, 2019 20:24

Nolgthorn: Jan 30, 2001; The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense

Webpack, Webkit what's the difference, nobody knows that stuff mang. Practically identical things

# ? Feb 8, 2019 21:36

HappyHippo: Nov 19, 2003; Do you have an Air Miles Card?

I have a website that's statically hosted and want users to be able to contact me with questions/comments. How bad is it to just put my e-mail there, in terms of spam? You see people trying to "obscure" emails from bots with various tricks ("john dot doe at gmail dot com") but somehow I doubt that's going to confuse a crawler.

Am I going to be getting a ton of spam putting my email online or are modern filters good enough that I shouldn't need to worry about it?

# ? Feb 13, 2019 21:55

spiritual bypass: Feb 19, 2008; Grimey Drawer

Just put your email out there, it's not a big deal. Forms are much worse for spam in my experience.

# ? Feb 13, 2019 22:11

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

HappyHippo posted:

I have a website that's statically hosted and want users to be able to contact me with questions/comments. How bad is it to just put my e-mail there, in terms of spam? You see people trying to "obscure" emails from bots with various tricks ("john dot doe at gmail dot com") but somehow I doubt that's going to confuse a crawler.

Am I going to be getting a ton of spam putting my email online or are modern filters good enough that I shouldn't need to worry about it?

If you're just wanting email sent to you there's a few on page remailers that don't require back end processing. I think mailchimp has a JS based one, and these guys claim to do it as well:
https://formspree.io/

# ? Feb 13, 2019 22:11

Nolgthorn: Jan 30, 2001; The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense

Something like this will give you an email link and confuse bots.

JavaScript code:

function initEmailLink () {
    var elements = document.querySelectorAll('.email-link');

    for (var i = 0; i < elements.length; i += 1) {
        var element = elements[i];

        element.addEventListener('click', function (ev) {
            ev.preventDefault();
            var href = "mailto:" + (element.dataset['e0']) + "@" + (element.dataset['e1']);
            window.location.href = href + '?subject=Hello from your website';
        });
    }
}

document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', function () {
    initEmailLink();
});

code:

<a class="email-link" data-e0="myemail" data-e1="gmail.com">Email me</a>

# ? Feb 13, 2019 22:53

HappyHippo: Nov 19, 2003; Do you have an Air Miles Card?

Cool, thanks for the info/suggestions

# ? Feb 13, 2019 23:30

Dominoes: Sep 20, 2007

Hey dudes. Using pure JS, are there any gotchas for rendering an SVG? I'm using (an equivalent to)
Document.createElementNS(), with namespace "http://www.w3.org/2000/svg", but the SVGs won't render until I go to the dev console inspector, select the tag, and edit its HTML (Any edit, including no change)... At which point it renders. This indicates that I'm missing a step during my DOM manipulation that FF is completing when it re-renders the SVG element from HTML.

edit: Turned out, internally, I wasn't actually using createElementNS (used createElement), which will cause SVGs to fail to render.

Dominoes fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Feb 18, 2019

# ? Feb 17, 2019 17:48

Newf: Feb 14, 2006; I appreciate hacky sack on a much deeper level than you.

I've got a thin express webserver handling client requests from the browser and doing read / writes etc from a CouchDB database. As of now, I'm using a single request handling method app.post('/', (req, res) => { /* do things*/ }), and forwarding requests to different methods based on a requestType enum in the request's json body.

Is there any reason not to do this?

# ? Feb 22, 2019 08:09

McGlockenshire: Dec 16, 2005; GOLLOCKS!

I mean, you have a perfectly good router just sitting there, what compels you to reinvent that wheel?

# ? Feb 22, 2019 08:43

fuf: Sep 12, 2004; haha

Is there a site like mailchimp but just for plain text emails? I need to send an email to about 500 people every two months or so.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 10:10

Newf: Feb 14, 2006; I appreciate hacky sack on a much deeper level than you.

McGlockenshire posted:

I mean, you have a perfectly good router just sitting there, what compels you to reinvent that wheel?

I guess that I'm just using the tools I'm most familiar with to accomplish the task. I'm using typescript, and I'm using discriminated unions to type check / distinguish between the different requests. The client and server are sharing the type definitions, and these things combined make me less nervous about potential refactoring headaches down the road. The entire client code is:

JavaScript code:

import ENV from '@/ENVIRONMENT_VARS';
import { ServerRequest } from './types';

const SERVER = ENV.EXPRESS_SERVER_URL;

export default async function serverRequest(requestData: ServerRequest) {
  const xml = new XMLHttpRequest();
  xml.withCredentials = true;
  xml.open('POST', SERVER, false);
  xml.setRequestHeader('Content-Type', 'application/json');
  xml.send(JSON.stringify(requestData));

  return xml;
}

type ServerRequest = DoServerStuffA | DoServerStuffB // and so on

which feels easier to manage and more 'type safe' than taking the extra step to make sure requests hit the right endpoints.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 15:38

Lumpy: Apr 26, 2002; La! La! La! Laaaa!; College Slice

fuf posted:

Is there a site like mailchimp but just for plain text emails? I need to send an email to about 500 people every two months or so.

Unless you wish to avoid Mailchimp, you could do it trough them: they allow plain-text campaigns/ templates.

EDIT: https://mailchimp.com/help/create-a-plain-text-campaign/

# ? Feb 22, 2019 15:55

spiritual bypass: Feb 19, 2008; Grimey Drawer

fuf posted:

Is there a site like mailchimp but just for plain text emails? I need to send an email to about 500 people every two months or so.

I use my own homegroan thing with SMTP2Go for this

# ? Feb 22, 2019 15:59

EL BROMANCE: Jun 10, 2006; COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬

So, I'm probably going to build up a dashboard and overview of stuff going on with the company I work for using ArchitectUI, which is basically a template that someone made using bootstrap and a few other things. It's pretty lightweight, and means I can just put it on a thumbdrive and walk over to the PC in our meeting area and load it all up on the screen there. I have full access to this computer, so I can install anything as needed but trying to avoid doing a WAMP type thing if possible.

If this was a public, web based thing I'd just have my Excel files have a tab I could export to CSV then parse these using PHP (or if I wanted to be longwinded, put them in MySQL tables and grab them that way), but I'm wondering if there's anything I can do that would work without having to go beyond what the web browser itself can generate. It looks like JavaScript can handle CSV importing, is that likely the easiest way or am I setting myself up for banging my head against the desk with that? Of everything mentioned so far, JavaScript is the thing I'm least knowledgeable about.

The reason I'd like to avoid PHP beyond the headache of getting all that working on a machine that doesn't run quickly to begin with, is ideally I'd like to be able to pass the pendrive to people to put in their own computers and see the same thing. At worst I could generate PDF files from the output, but trying to keep things simple (if this is possible).

# ? Feb 22, 2019 17:41

Ahz: Jun 17, 2001; PUT MY CART BACK? I'M BETTER THAN THAT AND YOU! WHERE IS MY BUTLER?!

EL BROMANCE posted:

So, I'm probably going to build up a dashboard and overview of stuff going on with the company I work for using ArchitectUI, which is basically a template that someone made using bootstrap and a few other things. It's pretty lightweight, and means I can just put it on a thumbdrive and walk over to the PC in our meeting area and load it all up on the screen there. I have full access to this computer, so I can install anything as needed but trying to avoid doing a WAMP type thing if possible.

If this was a public, web based thing I'd just have my Excel files have a tab I could export to CSV then parse these using PHP (or if I wanted to be longwinded, put them in MySQL tables and grab them that way), but I'm wondering if there's anything I can do that would work without having to go beyond what the web browser itself can generate. It looks like JavaScript can handle CSV importing, is that likely the easiest way or am I setting myself up for banging my head against the desk with that? Of everything mentioned so far, JavaScript is the thing I'm least knowledgeable about.

The reason I'd like to avoid PHP beyond the headache of getting all that working on a machine that doesn't run quickly to begin with, is ideally I'd like to be able to pass the pendrive to people to put in their own computers and see the same thing. At worst I could generate PDF files from the output, but trying to keep things simple (if this is possible).

You're rambling a bit, what are your hard requirements?

# ? Feb 22, 2019 17:43

EL BROMANCE: Jun 10, 2006; COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬

Sorry!

* Easiest way of getting data from external source (Excel, most likely to CSV) into the ArchitectUI system
* Preferably without having to install Apache/PHP/MySQL etc on any machine

# ? Feb 22, 2019 17:47

Tei: Feb 19, 2011

Maybe I am wrong, but if you don't want to use PHP and you know only littel Javascript, but you know you are proficient in Excel... your best bet is to make a access application. Microsoft Office let you make full desktop applications that are essentially 1 access file. Anyone with the right version of Office installed can use the application.

If is for internal use that could be enough and painless enough.

I belive you could use tools to compile PHP to a portable app, or do something similar with javascript and Atom. But that may require learning a lot of technologies along the way.

If you are strongly interested into making a HTML application. You could make a single page application with a Javascript framework of your election. You will have to learn more javascript, but maybe will be less work than other options.

Tei fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Feb 22, 2019

# ? Feb 22, 2019 17:52

kedo: Nov 27, 2007

There are lots of JS tools you can use to parse a CSV. If you don't want to deal with a server, Javascript seems like it's really your only option here assuming you want this application to run in a browser?

I'm not familiar with ArchitectUI, but the only downside I see is that it's "powered by jQuery" which might make writing a complex JS app less pleasant than if you were using a framework like React.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 17:54

EL BROMANCE: Jun 10, 2006; COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬

Tei posted:

Maybe I am wrong, but if you don't want to use PHP and you know only littel Javascript, but you know you are proficient in Excel... your best bet is to make a access application. Microsoft Office let you make full desktop applications that are essentially 1 access file. Anyone with the right version of Office installed can use the application.

If is for internal use that could be enough and painless enough.

I belive you could use tools to compile PHP to a portable app, or do something similar with javascript and Atom. But that may require learning a lot of technologies along the way.

If you are strongly interested into making a HTML application. You could make a single page application with a Javascript framework of your election. You will have to learn more javascript, but maybe will be less work than other options.

Interesting, I'll take a look into that. Not something I've messed with, but we have the Office 365 suite thing here so likely to have it. Takes me out of the system I want to use for delivering, which I dig a lot, but it all comes down to speed/lack of headaches getting things to work!

e: saw your edit, yeah I was wondering if there was a portable PHP thing that existed. Looks like I've got some researching to do, never a bad thing really.

kedo posted:

There are lots of JS tools you can use to parse a CSV. If you don't want to deal with a server, Javascript seems like it's really your only option here assuming you want this application to run in a browser?

I'm not familiar with ArchitectUI, but the only downside I see is that it's "powered by jQuery" which might make writing a complex JS app less pleasant than if you were using a framework like React.

From going through the code, all the jQuery stuff is all prewritten and not really there to be touched by hand. It's more a case of just copying out the elements you like to where you want them, and putting the data in. I just get the feeling if we end up using this for a wide range of elements, I'll be spending ages copying/pasting code and data every week/month whereas something that can pull in data and loop it would make my life easier.

EL BROMANCE fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Feb 22, 2019

# ? Feb 22, 2019 17:55

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

fuf posted:

Is there a site like mailchimp but just for plain text emails? I need to send an email to about 500 people every two months or so.

Less easy to use but Amazon SES has a lot of advantages if you're willing to put in the work setting it up.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 19:03

NtotheTC: Dec 31, 2007

I am infuriatingly lost when it comes to using sass/materialize/bootstrap or whatever this hellish combination of frontend frameworks is. Even something as simple as "modifying the background-color of the body element" is hidden behind so much magic I can no longer work out why it's being set.

there's a $white: #fff in a variables.scss that certainly seems to control it, in that if I set it to $white: #111 everything goes dark. It stands to reason that somewhere there would be a background-color: $white that I could hook into.

does $theme-colors control it? That appears to be part of bootstrap4 but hosed if I can find any documentation on what to override to change the body background-color. It appears to use $white by default and thats it.

Holy gently caress web design winds me up. There's no shallow end anymore.

e: So what I actually wanted was $body-bg. https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap-sass/blob/master/assets/stylesheets/bootstrap/_variables.scss

NtotheTC fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Feb 23, 2019

# ? Feb 23, 2019 23:37

Nolgthorn: Jan 30, 2001; The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense

The shallow end is html/css/js, it still works and does everything you need, the deep end gets you view frameworks like react. What you are is on a waterslide with a loop-de-loop. There are a billion tools out there and a billion blogs wrongly gushing about all of them.

# ? Feb 24, 2019 00:52

Raskolnikov2089: Nov 3, 2006; Schizzy to the matic

Bootstrap isn't really needed anymore. Prefixing has gotten to the point where a solid build will let you build quickly without it.

Flexbox all the way.

(I'm also blessed with designers who don't build to a grid)

# ? Feb 25, 2019 01:26

LOOK I AM A TURTLE: May 22, 2003; "I'm actually a tortoise."; Grimey Drawer

NtotheTC posted:

I am infuriatingly lost when it comes to using sass/materialize/bootstrap or whatever this hellish combination of frontend frameworks is. Even something as simple as "modifying the background-color of the body element" is hidden behind so much magic I can no longer work out why it's being set.

there's a $white: #fff in a variables.scss that certainly seems to control it, in that if I set it to $white: #111 everything goes dark. It stands to reason that somewhere there would be a background-color: $white that I could hook into.

does $theme-colors control it? That appears to be part of bootstrap4 but hosed if I can find any documentation on what to override to change the body background-color. It appears to use $white by default and thats it.

Holy gently caress web design winds me up. There's no shallow end anymore.

e: So what I actually wanted was $body-bg. https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap-sass/blob/master/assets/stylesheets/bootstrap/_variables.scss

$white = #fff, brought to you by the creators of const int ONE = 1.

# ? Feb 25, 2019 01:26

The Merkinman: Apr 22, 2007; I sell only quality merkins. What is a merkin you ask? Why, it's a wig for your genitals!

Raskolnikov2089 posted:

Bootstrap isn't really needed anymore. Prefixing has gotten to the point where a solid build will let you build quickly without it.

Flexbox all the way.

(I'm also blessed with designers who don't build to a grid)

Blessed?

# ? Feb 25, 2019 02:00

Nolgthorn: Jan 30, 2001; The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense

LOOK I AM A TURTLE posted:

$white = #fff, brought to you by the creators of const int ONE = 1.

Are those the same people that created the wonderful dev experience of no-magic-numbers?

https://eslint.org/docs/rules/no-magic-numbers

code:

const TEN = 10;
return parseInt(myVar, TEN);

# ? Feb 25, 2019 03:14

RobertKerans: Aug 25, 2006; There is a heppy lend
Fur, fur aw-a-a-ay.

The Merkinman posted:

Blessed?

If you don't need a grid structure for your application then the FE layout will generally be way easier, particularly w/r/t responsive features and flexbox. I think that's pretty uncontroversial.

# ? Feb 25, 2019 11:20

Cugel the Clever: Apr 5, 2009; I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

RobertKerans posted:

If you don't need a grid structure for your application then the FE layout will generally be way easier, particularly w/r/t responsive features and flexbox. I think that's pretty uncontroversial.

I'd much rather a well-defined, rigidly-adhered-to grid than whatever the designer haphazardly throws together in Photoshop without concern for feasibility. Grids are also very easy for responsive design and are aided by flexbox, so I honestly have no idea what kind of better alternative you're referring to :confused:

I mean, are you just talking about having everything being blocks and flowing down in a single column or something?

# ? Feb 25, 2019 14:22

Munkeymon: Aug 14, 2003; Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.

Nolgthorn posted:

The shallow end is html/css/js, it still works and does everything you need, the deep end gets you view frameworks like react. What you are is on a waterslide with a loop-de-loop. There are a billion tools out there and a billion blogs wrongly gushing about all of them.

Funny you should put it that way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Park#Cannonball_Loop :thunk:

The Merkinman posted:

Blessed?

#blessed, surely

# ? Feb 25, 2019 15:02

The Dave: Sep 9, 2003

RobertKerans posted:

If you don't need a grid structure for your application then the FE layout will generally be way easier, particularly w/r/t responsive features and flexbox. I think that's pretty uncontroversial.

Huh

The Dave fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Feb 25, 2019

# ? Feb 25, 2019 15:03

Opulent Ceremony: Feb 22, 2012

Do you or someone you know work on Google Chromium? Would be really happy to have some official comment on this bug we've had for the last couple of months, even if it's to say that no fix is planned: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=899299

# ? Feb 25, 2019 20:09

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

Raskolnikov2089 posted:

Bootstrap isn't really needed anymore. Prefixing has gotten to the point where a solid build will let you build quickly without it.

Flexbox all the way.

(I'm also blessed with designers who don't build to a grid)

The grid is only one small part of bootstrap.

# ? Feb 25, 2019 23:52

Nolgthorn: Jan 30, 2001; The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense

Munkeymon posted:

Funny you should put it that way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Park#Cannonball_Loop

Well, as you can clearly see it works perfectly ok.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDHqfhyCbbM&t=497s

# ? Feb 26, 2019 00:58

Lumpy: Apr 26, 2002; La! La! La! Laaaa!; College Slice

Thermopyle posted:

The grid is only one small part of bootstrap.

Very true. The point of Bootstrap is to make your site look like every other site. Sure you *could* tweak it, but who has the time to gently caress around figuring that poo poo out.

# ? Feb 26, 2019 06:22

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# ? May 29, 2024 19:20

Nolgthorn: Jan 30, 2001; The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense

The problem with Bootstrap is that unless you're just using it for an admin area, your website will grow out of it.

But by that time you'll have html that is structured in Bootstrap's weird proprietary way and that's hard to turn around. I don't understand when people say they can leave Bootstrap in forever, you need to tweak it to hell to do that.

# ? Feb 26, 2019 12:14

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > The Web Design & Development Megathread

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