|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:i've been pleasantly surprised by its absence, tbh. you realize that this the exact kind of disingenuous argument people use to 'discredit' antifa when some dude gets beaten up at a protest, right
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 18:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 04:11 |
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:you realize that this the exact kind of disingenuous argument people use to 'discredit' antifa when some dude gets beaten up at a protest, right Oh my god “hey man, it’s a protest, sometimes a few windows get broken, sometimes you light a guy on fire because he’s black, chill”. The racism of the opposition (which also argues there’s no racism in Venezuela, that’s a laugh) jumps out. Also this is a thread about Venezuela, please don’t go off on tangents about the US/USSR.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 18:41
|
|
|
Acebuckeye13 posted:you realize that this the exact kind of disingenuous argument people use to 'discredit' antifa when some dude gets beaten up at a protest, right that's a tankie. a leftist who is suddenly pro-cop as long as the cop is operating on the orders of a nominal leftist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 18:46
|
|
|
People who defend the actions of the US government abroad and of its military, and bend over backwards trying to justify them, have no business criticizing anyone else for being "pro-cop".Acebuckeye13 posted:you realize that this the exact kind of disingenuous argument people use to 'discredit' antifa when some dude gets beaten up at a protest, right
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 18:56
|
|
|
Jesus this thread is completely unreadable because of all the idiotic shitposting and theorycrafting. How are the same 6 people able to post the same histrionic shrieking page after page after page? You have to sift through dozens of baseless speculative posts unsupported by anything other than rhetorical assuredness to get to anything useful. The bullshit above me is a great example of people responding to literally any assertion possible to further push a narrative of "America = Bad" to literally no benefit to anyone.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 18:57
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:Jesus this thread is completely unreadable because of all the idiotic shitposting and theorycrafting. How are the same 6 people able to post the same histrionic shrieking page after page after page? You have to sift through dozens of baseless speculative posts unsupported by anything other than rhetorical assuredness to get to anything useful. because people seem to give a poo poo about the moral dimension of the topic at hand, op
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 18:58
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:because people seem to give a poo poo about the moral dimension of the topic at hand, op ah yes, a morals fight. An excellent excuse to shitpost and continually diverge onto pointless and extremely attenuated topics of discussion so that its possible to renew completely baseless and speculative assertions. Bob le Moche posted:People who defend the actions of the US government abroad and of its military, and bend over backwards trying to justify them, have no business criticizing anyone else for being "pro-cop". No discussion of an ongoing National crisis is complete without examining this moral element! Let me post a variation of it 30x so people fully understand my position. Kawasaki Nun fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Feb 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:01
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:ah yes, a morals fight. An excellent excuse to shitpost and continually diverge onto pointless and extremely attenuated topics of discussion so that its possible to renew completely baseless and speculative assertions. ya bring in just one war criminal to effect regime change, and suddenly people start talking about war crimes. damndest thing. if only people could just ignore the parts of the crisis that I don't want to hear about!
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:05
|
|
|
Love to baselessly speculate on things like 'bringing in the guy responsible for el mozote might be bad news'
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:08
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/AmericoDeGrazia/status/1098951797190864896 NSFW / content warning because of blood and injuries. the regime is shooting people now, eager to hear the justifications from the various Maduro supporters here how this is both Necessary and Good. https://twitter.com/AmericoDeGrazia/status/1098972790122860544 Laphroaig fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Feb 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:14
|
|
|
mortons stork posted:Love to baselessly speculate on things like 'bringing in the guy responsible for el mozote might be bad news' Fun War Crimes Trivia El Mozote is one of the very few he can argue he wasn't responsible for! chronology doesn't line up. he was just in charge of proclaiming "it didn't actually happen, and if it did happen it wasn't that bad, and if it was that bad paying attention to it would just be helping the Communists win, and ultimately it was a triumph for democracy regardless" while protecting any of the people involved from experiencing any consequences. now, Guatemala, on the other hand. hoo dawgie.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:14
|
|
|
Laphroaig posted:https://twitter.com/AmericoDeGrazia/status/1098951797190864896 Is there any context beyond this tweet for this video?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:17
|
|
|
kidkissinger posted:Is there any context beyond this tweet for this video? https://twitter.com/AmericoDeGrazia/status/1098972790122860544 edit: They didn't try to arrest these people, they loving shot them in cold blood and two are now dead. Welcome to a taste of more to come. It was Pemon tribespeople, indigenous people to Venezeula, who were trying to keep the border open to receive supplies. The regime answered them with bullets and death. Laphroaig fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Feb 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:17
|
|
|
mortons stork posted:Love to baselessly speculate on things like 'bringing in the guy responsible for el mozote might be bad news' A point that has repeated constantly but nobody in here is happy nor supports Elliot Abrams, and I doubt Guaido requested him to be involved due to his statements of resisting US intervention at any step. As well, Venezuelan military is outright firing on protesters much now which is a far greater thing to worry about than US involvement at this point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:21
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:ya bring in just one war criminal to effect regime change, and suddenly people start talking about war crimes. damndest thing. if only people could just ignore the parts of the crisis that I don't want to hear about! Who is saying Elliot Abrams is a good idea? Are you mental? You keep repeating yourself like some kind of nitwit. Is repetition the most moral form of communication or something? It's like you are arguing with a stupider part of your psyche and still not managing to make any rhetorical headway
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:28
|
|
|
ChaseSP posted:A point that has repeated constantly but nobody in here is happy nor supports Elliot Abrams, and I doubt Guaido requested him to be involved due to his statements of resisting US intervention at any step. He kinda failed the first step of resisting us intervention when he went begging trump for help
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:28
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:Who is saying Elliot Abrams is a good idea? Are you mental? You keep repeating yourself like some kind of nitwit. Is repetition the most moral form of communication or something? the people saying that "regardless of bringing in Elliot Abrams to facilitate the opposition's transition to power, we should still support the opposition," OP.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:31
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the people saying that "regardless of bringing in Elliot Abrams to facilitate the opposition's transition to power, we should still support the opposition," OP. what about the people saying "regardless of one of Maduro's generals ordering his troop to open fire on indigenous tribespeople trying to receive aid, killing 2 and wounding 14, we should still support the regime" Just go on the record here saying you support the regime's murder of indigenous people, since thats the standard you are trying to apply to everyone else regarding support of Elliot Abrams.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:33
|
|
|
Truga posted:After today, venezuela will have two unconstitutional governments. Finally someone calling from the overthrow of the PSUV leaders.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:36
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the people saying that "regardless of bringing in Elliot Abrams to facilitate the opposition's transition to power, we should still support the opposition," OP. So because everyone agrees that Elliot Abrams is a pos and a horrible choice by the United States you feel compelled to repeatedly assert that Elliot Abrams is a pos and a horrible choice by the United States?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:38
|
|
|
Presenting Nipples posted:Like where do you think all these western outlets are getting their reporting from? They don't have journalists anymore. They are just repeating talking points given to them by the state department. So it's one thing to parrot Maduro propaganda, but inventing new propaganda seems a bit more diabolical. Reuters, Associated Press, Bloomberg, and the NY Times, the 4 western outlets that are leading the reporting on Venezuela, all have at least 1 reporter on the ground in Venezuela.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:44
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:So because everyone agrees that Elliot Abrams is a pos and a horrible choice by the United States you feel compelled to repeatedly assert that Elliot Abrams is a pos and a horrible choice by the United States? Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:marvellous! so i assume they will support factions that oppose giving him any more power over Venezuela, then? you will find no shortage of me saying Maduro sucks poo poo. in a perfect world, the PSUV-supporting farmers he's been handing out guns to manage to chuck him out the second Guiado and his backers are no longer an active threat. in the one we currently live in, there's a side that promises to rip the country in half in order to drink its blood, and a side that has proven itself incredibly bad at stewardship. this is not a difficult moral call, to me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:48
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:So because everyone agrees that Elliot Abrams is a pos and a horrible choice by the United States you feel compelled to repeatedly assert that Elliot Abrams is a pos and a horrible choice by the United States? Elliot Abrams is part of the the Guaido coup, you can’t have one without the other. gently caress, Guaido just did an interview talking about how Trump is crucial to the coup. Attempting to separate them is the reason he keeps coming up. Own that your beloved self-declared president is part of the US operation to overthrow the democratically elected government of Venezuela and we can move on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:49
|
|
|
Presenting Nipples posted:All these posters talking about "incredible" sources are using Elliot Abrams and Donald Trump talking points without a hint of irony about who they are sourcing there information from. https://twitter.com/ClavelRangel/status/1099011013448474626 Jorge Pérez, councilman in Gran Sabana (district where the town his located), in his own words describing the soldiers opening fire. How is that for a source? Or he is repeating talking points from the US state department?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:50
|
|
|
zapplez posted:Finally someone calling from the overthrow of the PSUV leaders. It's great. Like a week ago Maduro started handing out guns to a bunch of normal folk militias, and they're probably gonna flip on him at the first sign of more food problems. Armies are already cagey about shooting at their own people, if they can shoot back they'll nope out real quick IMO. One can only hope this all happens before trump/pompeo/abrams gently caress poo poo up for venezuelans some more tho. Truga fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Feb 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:50
|
|
|
Chuck Boone posted:Here's a live stream of Venezuela Aid Live: Don't forget about Maduro's counter-concert. https://twitter.com/andrewrosati/status/1099013330222632962
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:53
|
|
|
uninterrupted posted:Elliot Abrams is part of the the Guaido coup, you can’t have one without the other. gently caress, Guaido just did an interview talking about how Trump is crucial to the coup. Attempting to separate them is the reason he keeps coming up. See you seem to have the same problem as balls in that you're indignantly winding yourself up arguing against positions I never put forward. Maybe if you were a little less relentless in your shitposting you'd be able to actually follow other posters discussions instead of inserting your own points to be angry at. Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:you will find no shortage of me saying Maduro sucks poo poo. in a perfect world, the PSUV-supporting farmers he's been handing out guns to manage to chuck him out the second Guiado and his backers are no longer an active threat. Is this the thread for voting on which government gets to rule Venezuela? No? Then shut the gently caress up about your cheerleading. It literally does nothing other than satisfy your sense of moral superiority and it makes the thread impossible to read for other interested parties.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:55
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:See you seem to have the same problem as balls in that you're indignantly winding yourself up arguing against positions I never put forward. Maybe if you were a little less relentless in your shitposting you'd be able to actually follow other posters discussions instead of inserting your own points to be angry at. serious question: if you find the moral dimension uninteresting due to the fact it "does nothing," what are you even here for is there some real-world political outcome that is being strangled by the occasional reminder this is something more than a cool new show on the teevee
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 19:59
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:Is this the thread for voting on which government gets to rule Venezuela? No? Then shut the gently caress up about your cheerleading. It literally does nothing other than satisfy your sense of moral superiority and it makes the thread impossible to read for other interested parties. When one is a citizen of an empire that has, within its means, the ability to cause both economic and military devastation almost anywhere in the world, the question of intervention is always a moral one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 20:06
|
|
|
Private Witt posted:So it's one thing to parrot Maduro propaganda, but inventing new propaganda seems a bit more diabolical. This is a great book on how western reporting is done mostly by correspondents living it up in luxury hotels while paying local stringers to dredge up content that aligns with their agenda Kawasaki Nun posted:ah yes, a morals fight. An excellent excuse to shitpost and continually diverge onto pointless and extremely attenuated topics of discussion so that its possible to renew completely baseless and speculative assertions. The purity policing of condemning a known war criminal and genocidaire who wants to start a civil war in Venezuela. Funny how nominally anti-trump American liberals line up like obedient children when his administration wants its own Syria/Libya style signature conflict.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 20:07
|
|
|
zapplez posted:Finally someone calling from the overthrow of the PSUV leaders. Truga's been on board with that the whole time 
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 20:08
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:serious question: if you find the moral dimension uninteresting due to the fact it "does nothing," what are you even here for It's your cheerleading that does nothing, not discussing the moral dimension of this conflict. Is english your second language or something? You have 4 pages of posts in this thread in 2 weeks and more than 75% of them are about elliot abrams. It's not an occasional reminder. Its like some bizzare compunction you have to belabor a point that literally no one is contesting. Its bizarre and adds literally nothing to the conversation. I'm very aware this is more than something on TV, I have extended family that lived in Venezuela. That's precisely the reason I'm asking you to shut the gently caress up Edit: jesus christ you're like idiot pod people Kawasaki Nun fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Feb 22, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 20:12
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:It's your cheerleading that does nothing, not discussing the moral dimension of this conflict. Is english your second language or something? evading the question, friend. what are you here for. what is the Definitely More Important Thing that those fuckers talking about Elliot Abrams and all that useless "morality" business are preventing you from doing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 20:14
|
|
|
beer_war posted:Don't forget about Maduro's counter-concert. NYT reporter was showing half-full buses of "supporters" being sent to the concert. To be fair to Maduro, most of his supporters are too busy figuring out how to thwart the food-shaped and medicine-shaped CIA guns from entering their idyllic country. No time for such frivolities as a concert.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 20:17
|
|
|
Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:evading the question, friend. what are you here for. what is the Definitely More Important Thing that those fuckers talking about Elliot Abrams and all that useless "morality" business are preventing you from doing. I'm mostly here to try to follow events in Venezuela from posts like Chuck Boone's because most of the mainstream reporting on the topic seems to inevitably skew towards what dipshit President Trump has suggested doing about the situation. What are you doing here other than posting "Elliot Abrams = Bad" over and over like its your loving job?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 20:19
|
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:I'm mostly here to try to follow events in Venezuela from posts like Chuck Boone's because most of the mainstream reporting on the topic seems to inevitably skew towards what dipshit President Trump has suggested doing about the situation. What are you doing here other than posting "Elliot Abrams = Bad" over and over like its your loving job? playing whack-a-mole with the people trying to claim their support for the opposition is because they just care so gosh-darned much about human rights. if one is hopeful, one can imagine that they might learn something from the experience going forward. evidence on the ground is thin for this, but hey. hope springs eternal.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 20:22
|
|
|
Private Witt posted:NYT reporter was showing half-full buses of "supporters" being sent to the concert. This is the tweet you're referencing, I think: https://twitter.com/AKurmanaev/status/1099012278979121155 I can't find a live stream of the government concert anywhere. I think it's supposed to start later today? Anyway, if anyone does find a stream or a video from it, please share it here!
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 20:23
|
|
|
Eliot Abrams is literally the US envoy to Guaido's fake regime and the singular point of contact for coordinating all anti-Maduro activities in that country. Stop pretending like he is some kind of disinterested bystander.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 20:24
|
|
|
providing public transportation to a public event is good though
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 20:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 04:11 |
|
|
Kawasaki Nun posted:See you seem to have the same problem as balls in that you're indignantly winding yourself up arguing against positions I never put forward. Maybe if you were a little less relentless in your shitposting you'd be able to actually follow other posters discussions instead of inserting your own points to be angry at. I’ve actually been contributing plenty to the thread wrt sources saying Guaido was told by Mike Pence to assume the presidency, his right wing neoliberal starvation policies, his attempts to force through an amnesty bill pardoning the military for basically everything, etc. Read through my posts in the thread Just because people don’t agree with you is no reason to lash out at them, or assume they’re not contributing to the discussion. Is Guaido still being held up by the military? Last I heard he was on his way to the border, I never found out if they let him go. Also, looks like a whole bunch of companies opened suits against PDVSA, GE Capital the biggest among them. Since the US has been stealing Venezuelan assets left and right they probably figure this is the best way to get some of their money back.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2019 20:26
|
|