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Stickman posted:Requiring motion vectors is different from a TAA pass, though. That's just extra input. Ah yeah, the game doesn't actually do TAA when DLSS is enabled. The game supporting TAA is kind of a soft-prerequisite for DLSS integration if it still uses motion vectors though, since a game with no TAA probably doesn't have accurate motion vectors lying around already and that work would have to be done from scratch just for DLSS. Stickman posted:E: Since you're on now, what do you think about pipelining DLSS? Since it just uses completed framebuffers (and maybe a motion vector buffer) as input, it seems like should be relatively easy to start the next frame while DLSS finishes the first, effectively eliminate the frame rate hit over the input resolution (but not the frame time hit). It seems like they definitely didn't do this, because DLSS is a bit frame rate hit over 1440p, but is there a good reason not to besides maybe requiring a small amount of extra hardware? Do we know for a fact that Turing SMs can execute on the regular shader cores and Tensor cores simultaneously? Nvidia made a big deal out of Turing's ability to execute FP+INT but I don't recall them talking about FP/INT+Tensor. I suppose you might be able to use async compute to squeeze some DLSS ops in alongside the raster-bottlenecked parts of the next frame, but if the engine is already leveraging async there might not be much left on the table there. repiv fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 22, 2019 21:49
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repiv posted:Ah yeah, the game doesn't actually do TAA when DLSS is enabled. The game supporting TAA is kind of a soft-prerequisite for DLSS integration if it still uses motion vectors though, since a game with no TAA probably doesn't have accurate motion vectors lying around already and that work would have to be done from scratch just for DLSS. Makes sense, and makes sense  They've made a big deal about the concurrent fp/integer processors in the Turing architecture, but nothing seems to indicate that the tensor cores can run concurrently.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:01
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Mr.PayDay posted:I went from a 980Ti to 2080Ti on 1440p and had an average fps jump - depending on the game/engine - from 100-200%. That’s nice, but for the value proposition to be even, the 980ti would have to be priced the same as it was in the summer 2017 crypto bubble. It’s about diminishing returns, and more importantly it’s that the price of performance isn’t static. Aside from GPU makers sometimes selling overperforming cards at good value, if you’re willing to wait then playable performance at x resolution and y setting will be playable. I remember when cards that could do 1024x768 were a premium over 800x600. Cards that play well at 4K will be more affordable eventually, and as I don’t have a 4K display right now anyway I’m not incentivized to over-invest in it. That said, telling people in the throes of late stage capitalism that you’re really not that rich doesn’t win you any awards. Instead of feeling the need to defend your acts of consumerism, have fun with your thing and let the rest of us talk amongst ourselves about how it’s simply not worth it.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:15
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Craptacular! posted:Instead of feeling the need to defend your acts of consumerism, have fun with your thing and let the rest of us talk amongst ourselves about how it’s simply not worth it. This is probably the best advice. In the same way that car enthusiasts will happily plunk down $1000 for a new exhaust that adds <5% horsepower to their car that they already can't use to its full potential because of speed limits while the rest of us just shake our heads at the "waste," there's absolutely nothing wrong with buying a new shiny because it's what you want and you can afford it. Basically the rest of us are just grumpy we don't have the money to blow on a 2080Ti. 
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Feb 22, 2019 22:24
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While I can see some differences with some of the DLSS comparisons, I'm not sure which one I would consider "better". Sometimes it's really hard to tell at all.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:30
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Especially not for the performance hit. If it was free sure, but to look arguably better and cost performance makes it a hard option.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:34
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GTX 1660ti is the most power efficient card by some margin, 20% ahead of Pascal. 1070 performance at 1060 power consumption. That chip shrunk to 10/7nm would be great for laptops. I hope they extend the GTX line for value oriented customers and improve the RTX line as a luxury product, rather than forcing it down everybody’s throats.
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Feb 22, 2019 22:52
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craig588 posted:Especially not for the performance hit. If it was free sure, but to look arguably better and cost performance makes it a hard option. Currently DLSS is a performance boost because it upscales from a lower resolution. The comparisons posted are between DLSS upscaling from 2/3 resolution and standard up scaling from 80% resolution wits TAA. They have similar performance, but after the latest patch, DLSS looks better in many ways. Neither are as nice as native 4K + TAA, but they boost performance (and DLSS has a different set of artifacts than TAA).
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Feb 22, 2019 22:53
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drat CAD pricing makes the 2060 looking like a far better value now, especially since it comes with either BFV or Anthem. $460-$500+ for the 2060 vs $380 for the 1160, and that's the one-fan models. I was hoping it would closer to $350 cad.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:02
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eames posted:GTX 1660ti is the most power efficient card by some margin, 20% ahead of Pascal. 1070 performance at 1060 power consumption. Personally I hope they keep the foot on the gas of the RTX stuff for the whole range so that it becomes standard. The Global Illumination stuff in Metro looks good to me, and im excited to see what it could do with more and more power behind it and developers planning for it from the start. My opinion would probably be different if i was 144hz-240hz competitive gamer or needed to be really frugal with my toy purchases, though.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:15
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Cygni posted:Personally I hope they keep the foot on the gas of the RTX stuff for the whole range so that it becomes standard. Given the lackluster sales of RTX cards so far and their quarterly estimate miss of a half billion dollars, I kind of doubt that it goes anywhere any time soon.
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Feb 22, 2019 23:30
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Stickman posted:Currently DLSS is a performance boost because it upscales from a lower resolution. The comparisons posted are between DLSS upscaling from 2/3 resolution and standard up scaling from 80% resolution wits TAA. They have similar performance, but after the latest patch, DLSS looks better in many ways. Neither are as nice as native 4K + TAA, but they boost performance (and DLSS has a different set of artifacts than TAA). I was thinking of 2560x1440 with it enabled or disabled. It arguably looks better but you lose the option for 120+ FPS.
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Feb 23, 2019 00:08
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eames posted:GTX 1660ti is the most power efficient card by some margin, 20% ahead of Pascal. 1070 performance at 1060 power consumption. Yeah a 980ti with 120W stock TDP is pretty bonkers. At 249$ it's like the perfect card for the filthy masses with their 24" 60 fps FullHD monitors.
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Feb 23, 2019 00:14
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Oh yeah, we can use TU116 to get a better estimate of how much die space the big chips spend on raytracing/tensor stuff. TU116: 284mm² / 24 SMs = 11.83mm²/SM TU106: 445mm² / 36 SMs = 12.36mm²/SM I know it's not an ideal calculation (not all of the die is made of SMs) but I expected a bigger difference.
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Feb 23, 2019 00:24
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I would like to see something cool to replace the GTX 1050ti
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Feb 23, 2019 00:52
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Statutory Ape posted:I would like to see something cool to replace the GTX 1050ti GTX 1150 (1650?) is evidently due out next month. For some reason I think nVidia will stick with 4GB, though.
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Feb 23, 2019 00:54
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3 fan Vega 64 + 3 games for $419 https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202321 pretty good $/frame ratio, especially if you are a still an amd loyalest (bless your heart) e: speaking of that, here is Hardware Unboxed's latest $/frame chart for 1440p. you can adjust the prices if you see sales on stuff to get an idea of dealz 
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Feb 23, 2019 00:56
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BIG HEADLINE posted:GTX 1150 (1650?) is evidently due out next month. For some reason I think nVidia will stick with 4GB, though. That would be a good upgrade to that card. I had tried a 1050 for a sff build and ended up switching it to a 1050ti because 2g vram wasn't cutting it for me
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Feb 23, 2019 00:58
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BIG HEADLINE posted:GTX 1150 (1650?) is evidently due out next month. For some reason I think nVidia will stick with 4GB, though. This would make sense, particularly as a replacement in the laptop sector.
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Feb 23, 2019 02:49
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Craptacular! posted:That’s nice, but for the value proposition to be even, the 980ti would have to be priced the same as it was in the summer 2017 crypto bubble. Eventually a 2080Ti won’t be able to push even near 60 fps. If you bought the Maxwell Titan X in 2015 and where at top 50 fps in Titanfall 2 @ 4K for example, you are already „done“ with 4K and 60 fps in 2019, it’s over. The graphics and engines will alway improve and right now there are many games (especially Ubisoft and Square Enix Games) where the shiny new 2080Ti is dropping to 60 or 70 fps in some moments on 1440p Ultra. I wouldn’t even consider the 2080Ti a 4K card tbh. Cards that play well at 4K in new games will usually be the current Generation with all effects maxed, that was the case since 4 or 5 years now. And while you are referring to price and performance ratio, I repeat that there is a group of enthusiasts that only cares about performance and is willing to pay that price. I don’t feel I am the one defending buying a 2080Ti but gamers defend why it is NOT worth it. And that does not make sense. I get it when money is sparse, but in this threads here we are nonstop talking about fps and graphics quality, right? So we all are caring as much as possible about graphics and visual stuff. So it is all about the money, as always. If you put 30 bucks aside monthly the last 4 years, you got that 2080Ti paid right now. I get that when you are in school and a job freshman or get social welfare you have a budget and might get annoyed or jealous that gamers throw 1200 bucks at a GPU. But if you have a full time job since years and have to explain why a 2080Ti is not „worth“ the money (another topic is that many ignore that the new Turing tech costs money, the 2080Ti has a completely new and more expensive to produce architecture compared to the 1080Ti, nvidia spent 10 years and millions into that development ) you might be seriously underpaid. That fact that not everyone buys the fastest GPU simply is a personal budget issue but not that the top end GPUs are not „worth“ it lol. The best and fastest graphics are always allowing the best visual experience , everything else is denial. So please don’t put me into a „Defensive“ state while you want to tell me your possible step to 100-200% performance while playing with max sliders at Ultra is not „worth“ your money. Your budget is limited, okay, but not the High End GPU. What is the problem to admit that? Mr.PayDay fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Feb 23, 2019 |
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Feb 23, 2019 08:08
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DrDork posted:
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Feb 23, 2019 08:14
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Mr.PayDay posted:And while you are referring to price and performance ratio, I repeat that there is a group of enthusiasts that only cares about performance and is willing to pay that price. 
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Feb 23, 2019 08:46
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I'm probably going to buy a 20xx series once I have the time and money solely because I want to test out the hardware raytracing and the alternative vector pipeline.
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Feb 23, 2019 08:51
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Mr.PayDay posted:That fact that not everyone buys the fastest GPU simply is a personal budget issue but not that the top end GPUs are not „worth“ it lol. Jesus, dude. It's like cars. (obligatory  ) Yeah, you can get where you're going in a Kia, but you don't get the same ride you get from a Mercedes S-Class. You have to roll your windows down. You have to make do. You still eventually get somewhere.. Almost everybody in this thread is driving a virtual BMW or Covertte, and you're the guy in a Ferrari going "DON'T HATE DON'T HATE it's worth it!" It makes you look insecure and/or immature. There's a space somewhere between your old 980ti and 2080ti that is the point of diminishing returns for most people. It's why I'm about to buy DDR4-3000 instead of DDR4-3200 for $20 more. Because I will appreciate and enjoy the $20 in my wallet more than I'll ever notice the difference between those two speeds.Most people can't afford to buy every new game that comes out, and if you aren't buying eternally better monitors you can actually squeeze quite a long lifespan out of a card. Really at this point it's display feature creep than game engines that are moving progress, because the latter has to accommodate consoles and the former doesn't.
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Feb 23, 2019 08:53
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I don't understand why the 2060 or the 1660ti don't have 8gb vram.
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Feb 23, 2019 09:28
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Freakazoid_ posted:I don't understand why the 2060 or the 1660ti don't have 8gb vram. GDDR6 is significantly more expensive than GDDR5, and the Turing chips are huge and more expensive than they were supposed to be when they were designed for a 10nm process.
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Feb 23, 2019 09:53
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eames posted:GTX 1660ti is the most power efficient card by some margin, 20% ahead of Pascal. 1070 performance at 1060 power consumption. Came into this thread because I don't follow the business of video cards and wanted to see if anyone had any insight as to what the release of the 1660 would do to pricetags on RTX cards. I'm looking to get a 2070 and someone said to wait a bit and see if prices drop at all, but I have no idea if this person knows what they're talking about. Is it possible that RTX pricetags could actually go in the other direction- should I buy a card sooner rather than later?
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Feb 23, 2019 10:13
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So I bought a Gainward 2060  but I'm wondering do I need to get memory & vrm heatsinks? I have some vrm heatsinks left over from twin turbo ii and 3 memory heatsinks, but 2060 has 6 memory chips.
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Feb 23, 2019 10:22
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Memory (at least up to GDDR5) doesn't get hot and I haven't heatsinked memory in years (Probably even a decade) and never had an issue reaching the same clocks other cards do.
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Feb 23, 2019 10:30
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My GTX 970 with GDDR5 memory had no heatsinks. But this 2060 has GDDR6 I think? So is it a different matter? Heatsinking the VRM's should be a good idea at least.
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Feb 23, 2019 11:14
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Yeah, VRM heatsinks are important. I had a VRM heatsink on a 680 half off and the clock speeds were low by about 300MHz. Probably lucky it didn't burn up, I took it apart and found one of the retaining pins was out.
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Feb 23, 2019 11:34
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Craptacular! posted:Jesus, dude. lol, that did not take long, the road to ad hominem posts and tagging me "insecure and/or immature". Look, I went from your scenario 980Ti to a 2080Ti, and the difference is a serious night and day experience. I was actually installing older games to play them again because finally getting that 144 pfs/hz fueled while on top pulling all gfx sliders to Ultra/Extreme is fantastic. Your 980Ti gets wrecked on 4K in new games. Period. Posting in a GPU thread you wont "notice a difference" and taking the DDR4 scenario while we were talking about the second next GPU jump from Maxwell (980Ti) to Turing (2080Ti) is hilarious. "There's a space somewhere between your old 980ti and 2080ti", yes and is is bound by budget, because who will seriously tell me in a GPU thread she or he would not always love to get the best visual quality and frames? Whats holding back is the money. I get it, but the conclusion the top End GPUs (that have the most fps overall and allow the best graphic settings without a compromise like the devs built it into the engine) were not "worth" it, is a strawmen argument that does not make sense. You got 400 Euro budget? Ok, the 2070 and above are gone, I understand. Would money be no issue? 2 Titans nvlink everywhere. Maybe I completely misunderstood you, so thats on me then, but you told me I was "defending" a 2080Ti purchase while I only read funny arguments how the only GPU (beside Titan) that actually can push 60+ fps avg on 4K Ultra settings and allows RTX stuff ingame is not "worth" it In a Fun and gaming forum online and a "Serious Hardware /Software Crap" tagged Thread.  Edit: Let me phrase it like this: The 2080Ti is worth every loving expensive Dollar/Euro for 1440p Gaming and adds new features with RTX that you can enjoy and play at the (right now) highest possible fps. Mr.PayDay fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Feb 23, 2019 |
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Feb 23, 2019 11:55
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Yeah I'm going with this.
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Feb 23, 2019 12:40
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Settle down, Beavis.
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Feb 23, 2019 12:54
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I went from a 980 Ti to a 2080 Ti and I'm glad I did but I don't know if I'd say it was worth $1239.
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Feb 23, 2019 13:22
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Before this generation came out I decided to spend up to 1000 dollars on a videocard. I didn't feel bad at all about skipping Titans since they're so much more expensive. I was originally thinking I might pay up to 1200 for a Titan, but 3000 makes it an easy no.
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Feb 23, 2019 13:37
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Not sure if this is the correct thread, so apologies in advance. I just grabbed an ASUS Dual RTX 2060. It's been a while since I changed out a gfx, anything in particular I should do, software/drivers-wise? I was thinking about running du uninstaller (is that still a thing? is it even needed it I'm swapping a 970 for a 2060 from the same company?). I also have EVGA PrecisionX running for OCing the 970 and the overlay, was thinking about uninstalling that and installing the one included with the card (GPU tweak 2), or just reinstalling PrecisionX after I swap the card. Any input is appreciated. Cheers!
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Feb 23, 2019 14:13
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I just want to say I also agree that video cards do cost money and that some cost more of it while some cost less , in my opinion
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Feb 23, 2019 14:14
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Edmond Dantes posted:Not sure if this is the correct thread, so apologies in advance. You can do all that, or you can just shut down and swap the card. I've done it several times before and never had an issue beyond occasionally needing a second reboot.
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Feb 23, 2019 14:53
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Edmond Dantes posted:I also have EVGA PrecisionX running for OCing the 970 and the overlay, was thinking about uninstalling that and installing the one included with the card (GPU tweak 2), or just reinstalling PrecisionX after I swap the card. Most of the Nvidia overclocking tools are the same with a different skin, pick the one you like the look of the most. EVGAs and Asus are the same, I don't think the different one has been updated in a long time, I can't even remember its name. All of the major brand tools are the same.
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Feb 23, 2019 14:58
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