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Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves
All ambitions can be pre completed

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The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE
Once you complete all three crisis; does the game continue to throw random ones at you every once in a while? I had thought not but now I'm not sure because I've started seeing zombies and ancient dead travelling together in a mixed group again.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

The Lord Bude posted:

Once you complete all three crisis; does the game continue to throw random ones at you every once in a while? I had thought not but now I'm not sure because I've started seeing zombies and ancient dead travelling together in a mixed group again.

Crisis events will keep on happening every 75 days or so.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

Hunt11 posted:

Crisis events will keep on happening every 75 days or so.

Good to know.

I found a decently statted Eunuch; so naturally I made him into a Pikeman.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011
One of the most disappointing things in this game is when you're best buds with a noble house, go into the noble war, and then they just don't have any war contracts for you to do and they lose.

I go from city to city and in like all four or five of their cities there will be one contract. So I'll go do it and come back after five days of raiding expecting them to have refreshed and have a new one for me, only to find that now there are no contracts.

imo during crises there should be like five different contracts available in every city at every time, so you have a choice of how involved you want to be, and also so there's a feeling of being overwhelmed, like the thing that's going on in the world right now is actually a big deal that's bigger than your little band of guys, and there's no way you could ever handle all the work that's on offer. Instead these events pop up with random NPCs saying "there sure will be a lot of work for you in the coming noble war!" and then actually there isn't. It's incongruous.

Russian Remoulade
Feb 22, 2009
New Dev Blog is up.

Nordick
Sep 3, 2011

Yes.
That dragonhead banner is cool as poo poo

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead
NuDoggos are going to be great. I haven't been in a lot of situations where I go "man, sure would suck if my doggo didn't reach the retreating rear end in a top hat this turn", but I've been in more than a few where even an extra turn of doggo life would have made a sizable difference.

ZearothK
Aug 25, 2008

I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021


I hope the dogs show up in the obituary with the DLC's patch. The lack of memory for their sacrifices is my greatest gripe with the game.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE
DoggoXL

SickZip
Jul 29, 2008

by FactsAreUseless

ZearothK posted:

I hope the dogs show up in the obituary with the DLC's patch. The lack of memory for their sacrifices is my greatest gripe with the game.

Dead dogs should have more of a morale penalty then dead brothers

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves
Are Wiz and I the only people who use Dogs as ablative armour here?

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Gridlocked posted:

Are Wiz and I the only people who use Dogs as ablative armour here?

I usually completely forget dogs exist unless I'm trying to chase down retreating enemies.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves

vyelkin posted:

I usually completely forget dogs exist unless I'm trying to chase down retreating enemies.

They are really good for drawing fire in melee or deploying to increase your hit chances

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead
just had an event I hadn't seen before.

A peddler is hauling around a traveling menagerie. For entertainment, you see. Part of the menagerie is a caged wildman. There used to be two. Now there is one, and the guy can't get the corpse out of the cage, because angry wildman. He asks for help.

There are special resolution options for, at least, monks and wildmen. I had my wildman handle it. He communicated with the caged wildman and murdered the peddler gruesomely.

I got an additional wildman recruit, a dog, and a falcon out of the deal.

Best day ever, even if the wildman recruit was kinda bad - it's day 20, even a kinda bad wildman is still a perfectly serviceable linesman.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Gridlocked posted:

Are Wiz and I the only people who use Dogs as ablative armour here?

I deploy them in emergencies, and in goblin fights, and in alp fights. They're not super-cheap to just expend on the fly, especially if you only have 1-2 kennels on the map.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE
So my current run; which is now in crisis number 4; is my first truly successful post first crisis run. My observations now that I’ve had a chance to really explore the late game:

I’ve become thoroughly convinced as per earlier discussions in this thread that crossbow men aren’t worth it. Where I had originally planned to have 4 archers in every fight; now I very often tend to only use 2. In future I’ll be training archers only, not crossbowmen, and hiring only the very best. I’ll be aiming for 2-4. Some fights you still want more archers - they’re great against bandits; since having more archers than them determines whether they come to you or vice versa. Also against goblins, spiders, nachzherers, zombies and unarmored orcs. Many fights though they just don’t help.

I had always ignored polearms; but now I really like them. Particularly the warscythe. I now tend to have 2-3 of them; including the sarge. They’ve replaced my extra archers. I think the new nimble is part of the reason I like them so much more now.

I’ve tried out a guy with a fencing sword. I don’t think he ended up being optimal - I think you need to have the very best of the best initiative wise; but he is promising. Hard to use though. Some fights he does really well, but I often find myself rotating him out in many types of fights; or he’ll hang back and not do much. I’m not convinced I wouldn’t be better off just always having another pole arm dude instead.

Specialising a guy in orc chains was a mistake. They seem good in theory, but you never get a chance to use the aoe attack; and single target damage was a mistake.

My cleaver duelist does crazy damage; but I’m not sure if I wouldn’t be better off with a greatswordsman; especially vs ancient dead. I think I’d still have a heavy duelist next time; but I also want to have 3 2hander dudes and swap one out with the duelist depending on the fight.

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001


Dogs seem great against orc warriors too. If the warrior plows through my frontline and starts hitting a ranged or polearm dude I just have the ranged or polearm dude Footwork back a step and drop a dog where they were standing. Now the orc warrior is easier to hit and as far as I've seen they will never attack the dog if there's a human in range

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE
I swear I've dug up like half a dozen golden chalices on this map.

moot the hopple
Apr 26, 2008

dyslexic Bowie clone
I've started experimenting with the new fencing sword and it seems pretty cool. I really like Lunge's ability to avoid zone of control. I'm thinking of a build that skirts the flanks of larger battles to fight his way through to to annoying backliners like necromancers or ancient priests. The brother I was grooming for it unfortunately ate a crossbow bolt so I have to start over. Probably for the best since he was a farmer who was splitting too many level ups on getting resolve and health to an acceptable baseline before even touching initiative.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

moot the hopple posted:

I've started experimenting with the new fencing sword and it seems pretty cool. I really like Lunge's ability to avoid zone of control. I'm thinking of a build that skirts the flanks of larger battles to fight his way through to to annoying backliners like necromancers or ancient priests. The brother I was grooming for it unfortunately ate a crossbow bolt so I have to start over. Probably for the best since he was a farmer who was splitting too many level ups on getting resolve and health to an acceptable baseline before even touching initiative.

I had initially thought that the 2 tile range meant he could move 2 tiles, but in fact he can only move 1 tile and hit someone on the second; which makes the ability less useful for moving around the battlefield. Also the damage being tied to initiative means you have to kinda dart him in, chain 2-3 kills - I like heavily damaging guys with archers/etc and then using my fencer to sweep through and finish them all off - I give him Berserk and killing frenzy - but then you have to pull him out for a couple of turns and use recover, because once he's heavily fatigued his initiative goes to poo poo and he stops doing crazy damage. I still think on balance another guy with a polearm is probably going to do more damage overall in most battles.

Wizard Styles
Aug 6, 2014

level 15 disillusionist
So it's day 20 and I need cash fast. The only contract available is one to find some ruins for 300. I usually hate those contracts but this one is telling me to go northeast and I'm almost at the eastern edge of the map already, so I take it.

Company leaves town in the afternoon and finds the ruins before it's dark. So, nice, easy money. But I still need more so gently caress it, let's at least see what's in there. It's 13 Armored Wiedergängers and 4 Geists against a company in the level 1-5 range, mostly using Raider gear and some decent armor I bought when I had money that one time.

I should run. I don't.



Most notable thing here is how these deaths happened:

Ejnar was a Disloyal Mason who despite taking Gifted had essentially no Melee Skill. When he lived, that is, when that absolute fucker came back he didn't miss a single attack. :v:

It was all worth it, though:

Also got 2 Golden Chalices and a Signet Ring out of it so the company's money issues were over until I spent it all on a Hunter and a Poacher.

Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Feb 24, 2019

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Wizard Styles posted:

So it's day 20 and I need cash fast. The only contract available is one to find some ruins for 300. I usually hate those contracts but this one is telling me to go northeast and I'm almost at the eastern edge of the map already, so I take it.

Company leaves town in the afternoon and finds the ruins before it's dark. So, nice, easy money. But I still need more so gently caress it, let's at least see what's in there. It's 13 Armored Wiedergängers and 4 Geists against a company in the level 1-5 range, mostly using Raider gear and some decent armor I bought when I had money that one time.

I should run. I don't.



Most notable thing here is how these deaths happened:

Ejnar was a Disloyal Mason who despite taking Gifted had essentially no Melee Skill. When he lived, that is, when that absolute fucker came back he didn't miss a single attack. :v:

It was all worth it, though:

Also got 2 Golden Chalices and a Signet Ring out of it so the company's money issues were over until I spent it all on a Hunter and a Poacher.

If you could rename items in this game I would say you should rename that armour Sir Ejnar's Betrayal

Wizard Styles
Aug 6, 2014

level 15 disillusionist

vyelkin posted:

If you could rename items in this game I would say you should rename that armour Sir Ejnar's Betrayal
You can do that with BB-Edit, so:

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream

That's a little harsh on Ejnar isn't it? Dude gave his life for the cause, it's not his fault his corpse was animated and used to kill another guy

Wizard Styles
Aug 6, 2014

level 15 disillusionist

Wafflecopper posted:

That's a little harsh on Ejnar isn't it? Dude gave his life for the cause, it's not his fault his corpse was animated and used to kill another guy
He was disloyal and took the first opportunity that presented itself to rise up from the dead and kill an actually promising recruit in a display of prowess he had never shown before.

He was probably a spy for the zombies all along.

moot the hopple
Apr 26, 2008

dyslexic Bowie clone

The Lord Bude posted:

I had initially thought that the 2 tile range meant he could move 2 tiles, but in fact he can only move 1 tile and hit someone on the second; which makes the ability less useful for moving around the battlefield. Also the damage being tied to initiative means you have to kinda dart him in, chain 2-3 kills - I like heavily damaging guys with archers/etc and then using my fencer to sweep through and finish them all off - I give him Berserk and killing frenzy - but then you have to pull him out for a couple of turns and use recover, because once he's heavily fatigued his initiative goes to poo poo and he stops doing crazy damage. I still think on balance another guy with a polearm is probably going to do more damage overall in most battles.

I'm at the point in my game where I have a good backbone of 11+ guys in my roster so I can somewhat safely gently caress around with sub-optimal builds. I'm just going to run out this save with theory-crafting and experimentation until the new expansion comes out.

I now have a squire who's got the right baseline stats and stars for a fencer. I think I'm going to go full-hog on this concept and pump initiative and even take perks I normally avoid like Lone Wolf and Dodge, though the last time I tried them on a parry duelist, I was left severe underwhelmed. It also remains to be seen if the initiative-to-damage bonus and unique fencing sword options (if there are even any in the game right now) will be competitive to the damage output of a straight unique orc cleaver/axe duelist.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

moot the hopple posted:

I'm at the point in my game where I have a good backbone of 11+ guys in my roster so I can somewhat safely gently caress around with sub-optimal builds. I'm just going to run out this save with theory-crafting and experimentation until the new expansion comes out.

I now have a squire who's got the right baseline stats and stars for a fencer. I think I'm going to go full-hog on this concept and pump initiative and even take perks I normally avoid like Lone Wolf and Dodge, though the last time I tried them on a parry duelist, I was left severe underwhelmed. It also remains to be seen if the initiative-to-damage bonus and unique fencing sword options (if there are even any in the game right now) will be competitive to the damage output of a straight unique orc cleaver/axe duelist.

Yeah I really don't like that I have no idea what the bonus actually is. At least with an orc cleaver you can calculate the damage and compare it to say a 2h weapon; but I have no idea what I'm actually getting here; and the game doesn't show damage rolls in the combat log either.

Wizard Styles
Aug 6, 2014

level 15 disillusionist
Looking at the game data, the Fencing Sword's damage calculation works like this:

You get an Initiative-based modifier (i):
i = 2*max(0,Initiative/175)

Notably, the modifier can actually go to 0.

You use that modifier as follows to determine the overall attack damage modifier (m):
m = min(2,i)

So there's a cap at 2. Even if you somehow get to >175 Initiative for the initial calculation of i Initiative points beyond 175 won't do anything for the current attack. Of course, good luck getting there in the first place, especially after the first round of combat or so.

Anyway, total damage is then just base damage multiplied by m. So with 175+ Initiative you deal double damage, but once Initiative is 87 or less i is lower than 1 and Lunge does less damage than a regular attack.

Oh, and since all Fencing Sword bros will be Duelists, that means you can deal up to 125 damage with a max damage lunge. I don't think Fencing Swords are worth it since their output naturally drops off in tougher/longer fights and their effectiveness against armor is poo poo, but that will hurt somebody.

Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Feb 24, 2019

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Flavahbeast posted:

Dogs seem great against orc warriors too. If the warrior plows through my frontline and starts hitting a ranged or polearm dude I just have the ranged or polearm dude Footwork back a step and drop a dog where they were standing. Now the orc warrior is easier to hit and as far as I've seen they will never attack the dog if there's a human in range

You can also drop a dog and rotate out of danger (and doggo into danger).

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE

Wizard Styles posted:

Looking at the game data, the Fencing Sword's damage calculation works like this:

You get an Initiative-based modifier (i):
i = 2*max(0,Initiative/175)

Notably, the modifier can actually go to 0.

You use that modifier as follows to determine the overall attack damage modifier (m):
m = min(2,i)

So there's a cap at 2. Even if you somehow get to >175 Initiative for the initial calculation of i Initiative points beyond 175 won't do anything for the current attack. Of course, good luck getting there in the first place, especially after the first round of combat or so.

Anyway, total damage is then just base damage multiplied by m. So with 175+ Initiative you deal double damage, but once Initiative is 87 or less i is lower than 1 and Lunge does less damage than a regular attack.

Oh, and since all Fencing Sword bros will be Duelists, that means you can deal up to 125 damage with a max damage lunge. I don't think Fencing Swords are worth it since their output naturally drops off in tougher/longer fights and their effectiveness against armor is poo poo, but that will hurt somebody.

Thanks for this. That definitely sounds like it isn’t worth it. My cleaver duelist bro would be doing more damage, and I can stick him in plate.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Wizard Styles posted:

Looking at the game data, the Fencing Sword's damage calculation works like this:

You get an Initiative-based modifier (i):
i = 2*max(0,Initiative/175)

Notably, the modifier can actually go to 0.

You use that modifier as follows to determine the overall attack damage modifier (m):
m = min(2,i)

So there's a cap at 2. Even if you somehow get to >175 Initiative for the initial calculation of i Initiative points beyond 175 won't do anything for the current attack. Of course, good luck getting there in the first place, especially after the first round of combat or so.

Anyway, total damage is then just base damage multiplied by m. So with 175+ Initiative you deal double damage, but once Initiative is 87 or less i is lower than 1 and Lunge does less damage than a regular attack.

Oh, and since all Fencing Sword bros will be Duelists, that means you can deal up to 125 damage with a max damage lunge. I don't think Fencing Swords are worth it since their output naturally drops off in tougher/longer fights and their effectiveness against armor is poo poo, but that will hurt somebody.

This is really interesting. I never realized that Lunge can actually decrease your damage as well, though the ability to move around AOE is still useful. I think it can still be worth it but you would have to build the bro around a unique fencing sword rather than the base one. Like as I posted a little while ago, I only built a fencing bro to try out this unique I found:





Comparing those stats to the base fencing sword, it's actually pretty effective against armour, especially with duelist making it so a lot of extra damage goes through the armour too.

There's also a couple harder-to-measure aspects to the duelist that might make having one better than just measuring the numbers and saying a cleaver duelist will output more damage, like the ability to ignore ZOC and the ability to overwhelm an enemy in combat.

Overall though I'm just not sure that the fencing sword really fits in a game where so much of combat revolves around fatigue management and not going off on your own because you'll die. The fencer is so reliant on their initiative and their initiative is so reliant on their fatigue, that if you actually use them for more than one or two turns all their benefits disappear: no more dodge, no more overwhelm, no more lunge.

I think if you wanted to buff the fencing sword the way to do it wouldn't be to boost its damage, it would be to significantly reduce the fatigue cost for using its actions, so that it remains good for more than one or two turns. If I were the one doing it I would tie this reduction to sword mastery as a skill: have it give like a 50% decrease in fatigue cost for fencing sword actions instead of 25%, and that would make them way, way more viable as a weapon, even if the fencer would still remain a very niche bro.

The Lord Bude
May 23, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SHITTY, BOUGIE INTERIOR DECORATING ADVICE
Based on my experience using mine; they shine vs bandits - nipping around ignoring zoc; finishing off the wounded and taking out archers/polearms in the back line. But by the time you have a guy with a high enough level to be a decent fencer, bandits are a trivial opponent even in large numbers.

I suppose orc young/berserkers and goblins are similarly squishy; but the former hit hard, and will be grouped with heavy warriors most of the time anyway and the latter have lots of archers that can poke your duelist full of holes and poison him to sap action points and fatigue.

Some of the squishier beasts are good fencer fights too.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead
"healing all your wounded brothers will require between 2 and 5 days and expend between 21 and 54 medical supplies"

in hindsight, maybe that day-60 3-unhold contract wasn't my brightest idea ever

stopgap1
Jul 27, 2013

GreyjoyBastard posted:

"healing all your wounded brothers will require between 2 and 5 days and expend between 21 and 54 medical supplies"

in hindsight, maybe that day-60 3-unhold contract wasn't my brightest idea ever

as much as I like what you can make from Unholds... it's not always a great idea. So many injuries.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead
did you know: webknechts can ignore height restrictions (ie go from a 0-height tile to a 2-height tile)

i mean, it makes sense

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves

GreyjoyBastard posted:

did you know: webknechts can ignore height restrictions (ie go from a 0-height tile to a 2-height tile)

i mean, it makes sense

I think their nets count as throwing weapons.

Back Hack
Jan 17, 2010


Man, I wish nets and throwing weapons would eat ammo like instead of being consumables.

Wizard Styles
Aug 6, 2014

level 15 disillusionist


It seemed like a good idea at the time.

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vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011
Oh my god this stupid game is stuck because I hit retreat and 11/12 of my bros have retreated but there's one guy left behind who runs three tiles one way one turn, then three tiles the other way the next turn, and never just moves to the edge of the map and retreats. And all the enemies are just chilling in the forest like they dgaf, so they won't even come kill him so I can get on with my life.


e: he's currently on turn 136 of running back and forth in a forest clearing after all his friends left him to die

vyelkin fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Mar 1, 2019

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