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bewbies posted:The question wasn't would the Virginia change the eventual outcome of the war (it wouldn't) I was joking when I was talking about the Japanese using the Virginia as a kamikaze but there is a serious point - the rot in the Japanese higher command was pretty severe at this point. So assuming what the IJN *would* do in 1945 to equal what they *should* do is a dubious assumption. The scenario says the Japanese are taught how to crew the submarine. It does not say that Japanese high command are replaced with rational actors. Also note that all the Japanese naval codes are broken at this point and the Japanese need not know this. So there's a high chance that the US will know *exactly* what's going on. It's by no means a certainty, but there's a lot of possibility for the submarine to be just lost due to a mistake or incompetence.
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Feb 28, 2019 15:00
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Ok, what would the Romans do with a working nuclear sub? How would that delay the fall?
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Feb 28, 2019 15:12
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Even if they get the Virginia in 1941 the Japanese Naval Command is still not going to send it after tankers. They absolutely send it after capital ships, maybe even battleships to the exclusion of carriers as prestige targets.
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Feb 28, 2019 15:27
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if it's during the first punic war they don't get their rear end handed to them on the water although to be honest a WWII sub with a deck gun is probably more useful in the Republican era Med
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Feb 28, 2019 15:29
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bewbies posted:Halsey/Nimitz... didn't know the atomic bombs were on the way. That's an interesting topic I'd never thought about. Did Nimitz know before August 6th? At what point did who know what about the bomb's existence? Truman hadn't been told while he was vice-president.
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Feb 28, 2019 15:41
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What's the biggest ship the Virginia can sustainably sink by ramming? You could park it outside some logistics hub (Noumea?) and torp everything too big to ram.
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Feb 28, 2019 16:04
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They could send the Virginia after the USS Quincy en route to the Yalta conference.
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Feb 28, 2019 16:21
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aphid_licker posted:What's the biggest ship the Virginia can sustainably sink by ramming? You could park it outside some logistics hub (Noumea?) and torp everything too big to ram. Did the upgrade from the Los Angeles class move it beyond Japanese fishing vessels?
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Feb 28, 2019 16:31
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To piggyback off this hypothetical, how would an Aegis cruiser (Arleigh Burke class) for either the IJN, or the USN have changed the war at say Midway
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Feb 28, 2019 16:37
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What would the Virginia hypothetically have been able to do if it sailed to the United States? Could its torpedoes be used to fire on shipyards or dry docks to try and disable them?
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Feb 28, 2019 16:41
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They could blow up the submarine as a dirty bomb in LA...
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Feb 28, 2019 16:48
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Honestly if Japan found themselves with a nearly undetectable, unlimited range submarine with giant fuckoff torpedoes, there's no way they wouldn't find some way to try and gently caress up the Panama Canal. It probably wouldn't even be effective, but that's what they'd do.
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Feb 28, 2019 16:48
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aphid_licker posted:What's the biggest ship the Virginia can sustainably sink by ramming? You could park it outside some logistics hub (Noumea?) and torp everything too big to ram. the submarine-as-nuclear-torpedo is definitely a one and done thing, there's a lot of important fancy fragile stuff in the nose. so, pick your target carefully
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Feb 28, 2019 16:49
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They'd hoist the whole submarine out of the water and mount it on the Yamato.
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Feb 28, 2019 16:51
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SlothfulCobra posted:They'd hoist the whole submarine out of the water and mount it on the Yamato. wasn't it already sunk by then?
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Feb 28, 2019 16:58
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Tythas posted:wasn't it already sunk by then? Hoist the entire Yamato out of the ocean floor and turn it into a space battleship first, then slap on the Virginia class sub.
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Feb 28, 2019 16:59
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bewbies posted:the submarine-as-nuclear-torpedo is definitely a one and done thing, there's a lot of important fancy fragile stuff in the nose. so, pick your target carefully How close could it conceivably get to government stuff in Washington DC?
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Feb 28, 2019 17:00
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I mean the correct answer is that they park permamently somewhere over the telegraph cable between Hawaii and the Mainland and intercept everything but again, there's no option for the Japanese High Command that will trump chasing capital ships to sink.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:07
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Tythas posted:wasn't it already sunk by then? It was not! Yamato went down in April of '45.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:09
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An ordinance-less Virginia class could still go around finding, ramming and sinking US subs of the era, couldn't it? I dunno if US naval doctrine incorporated sub ops with carrier groups, or if US subs were doing anything critically important in 1945 so maybe that matter much.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:12
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Open this can of worms a bit more, the Virginias all carry a small complement of Tomahawks, something like 12.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:12
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chitoryu12 posted:How close could it conceivably get to government stuff in Washington DC? Not very, they had sub nets and mines and all that. Also to be clear I don't actually think that they could actually blow up the reactor and create any meaningful destruction, I just like the poetry of using your multi billion dollar submarine in a kamikaze attack once the torpedoes are gone.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:14
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zoux posted:An ordinance-less Virginia class could still go around finding, ramming and sinking US subs of the era, couldn't it? I'd think it would end up damaging itself. A WWII US Sub had a pressure hull that's 7/8" high tensile steel. It's not a battleship, but I think deliberately ramming it could cause problems for a submarine that isn't really designed for that sort of thing.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:21
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Alchenar posted:Even if they get the Virginia in 1941 the Japanese Naval Command is still not going to send it after tankers. They absolutely send it after capital ships, maybe even battleships to the exclusion of carriers as prestige targets. I think this depends on who gets to order it around and who is commanding it. Yamamoto probably would have gone after carriers and supply lines but someone in the "gently caress naval aviation" side of the IJN probably would have gone after gunboats specifically thinking it would cripple the US fleets.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:26
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Cessna posted:I'd think it would end up damaging itself. I know I tend to underestimate the technology of WWII era and overestimate modern tech so please forgive me if I'm way off, but is it not true that a Virginia has far superior detection and maneuverability than the subs of the era? I just wonder how they could leverage that against contemporary subs to gently caress them up. Find them, and I dunno, position themselves above and then with the weight of the sub, force them down below crush depth?
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Feb 28, 2019 17:26
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Tythas posted:To piggyback off this hypothetical, how would an Aegis cruiser (Arleigh Burke class) for either the IJN, or the USN have changed the war at say Midway Whichever side gets it wins handily, being able to shoot down every plane that came in range of the carriers that day without even troubling the CAP. If Japan gets it the US just builds a bunch more carriers and wins the war. If the US get it they don't have to build one more carrier but do so anyway and win the war. One Shot Superweapon hypotheticals are boring. Wars generally don't work like that.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:27
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zoux posted:Find them, and I dunno, position themselves above and then with the weight of the sub, force them down below crush depth? I don't even know how that would work. How would the Virginia secure itself on top of the WWII sub and force it down without severely damaging itself at the same time? (Edit: Or having the other sub just drive out from under it?) It doesn't have grappling hooks or...  (It's a Warhammer thing, claws that let Cessna fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Feb 28, 2019 |
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Feb 28, 2019 17:32
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https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/1100922052272447488 What warplane would you name your child after
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Feb 28, 2019 17:40
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/1100922052272447488 I’m sure there must be at least a dozen Florida men named mustang
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Feb 28, 2019 17:42
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/1100922052272447488 Ling Temco Vought Corsair the Second
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Feb 28, 2019 17:45
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/1100922052272447488 Rafale or Gripen for sure , also the names sound more normal than all the others
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Feb 28, 2019 17:45
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Cessna posted:(It's a Warhammer thing, claws that let Hey now, that was a thing fitted on one ship. 
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Feb 28, 2019 17:48
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Peashooter.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:50
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Super Tomcat Or... MIG
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Feb 28, 2019 17:54
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sullat posted:Ok, what would the Romans do with a working nuclear sub? How would that delay the fall? How many legionaires could you fit inside a Los Angeles class sub for boarding operations? zoux posted:https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/1100922052272447488 Mörkö-Morane
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Feb 28, 2019 17:59
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"Blackburn Firebrand" would be a pretty good name for a heavy metal guitarist, actually
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Feb 28, 2019 18:04
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I can't believe this Virginia derail went on for as long as it did. What would happen if you dropped a space marine into Berlin in 1945?
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Feb 28, 2019 18:04
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Oh also jeers to all the twitter people for the last two days who have been scaring me with poo poo like "India/Pakistan teeters on a knife's-edge, with global apocalypse almost a certainty" for the last two days for retweets. Like "Oh I know you're paying attention to Cohen/NK Summit/Whatever but don't ignore the fact that we're about to see how much ecological damage a limited nuke exchange can do", dude, what is my personal attention to a complex situation I don't know the first loving thing about supposed to accomplish besides more gray hairs for me. Saint Celestine posted:I can't believe this Virginia derail went on for as long as it did. Soviet or US aligned?
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Feb 28, 2019 18:05
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/nktpnd/status/1100922052272447488 "Say Dad, how did Rose get her name?" "Well, your mother loved roses, so when she was born it was a natural fit." "Ah, cool, thanks." "No problem, North American B-25J Mitchell."
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Feb 28, 2019 18:05
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(Steps into the office of Hawker Hunter, private investigator)
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Feb 28, 2019 18:06
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