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Runa
Feb 13, 2011

To be honest I was just elaborating on Splicer's point more than making one of my own, and illustrating what the various thought processes behind all of these attribute spreads probably was. In some cases the thought was as simple as "complex = better, and hurray simulation".

If you put the footwork in to make, say, a Stamina spec (presuming in this situation that "spec" means dedicating more of your freeform character creation and advancement resources in this direction) mechanically robust and meaningful choice in your system, independent of Power, then you've done more than the majority of RPGs out there that have a Str Con split.

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Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Foolster41 posted:

I mean, Strength, and constitution are separate thing in lots of games (including D&D), so I'm not sure what you mean about splitting Power/Stamina and not Agility, Mind and Charm, as if this is something I came up with?
As Xarbala said, it's a split that's very common because it's common, so people tend not to think about if it's actually appropriate. Modern D&D is a good example, where strength does attack stuff, con does defence stuff, and agility does both. When you look at the archetypes D&D tries to represent you'll see there's tough guys (str/con), fast guys (dex), smart guys (int), holy guys (wis), and faces (cha), and it's been suffering from this mismatch since 3.x. So whenever I see someone describe something in terms of stats and they do the str/con split (without matching splits elsewhere) my first thought is, are they doing that because they've got a handle on their system and have determined that's the best fit, or are they just copying the same old mistake?

Do stats directly impact effectiveness? Does having higher Power make a bunch of numbers go up? Do some stats make more or better numbers go up than other stats? If the answer is yes to the last one then you have a point buy system where some points are worth more than others.

You could even lean into the gimmick and have your stats be Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, and Heart. Want to lift something or impress someone with your bulk? Earth. Want to go somewhere fast? Fire or Wind. Inspirational leadership? Fire.

Foolster41 posted:

I guess my reasoning for the split was being able to have more attack (Power) vs. Defense (Stamina) focused characters. so, like I said each would have perks with that focus. (What I thought is a meaningful decision.)
The advantage of a power system is that you can have Earth be the Burly stat, being both toughness and melee damage, and have the defence vs offence split be based on power choice. Want to be the defendy guy? Take Stonewall and Earth Abides. Want to be the attack guy? Take Mountain Punch and Stalactites. Then Fire can be the Power stat, and you can choose to focus on being a Blaster vs whatever.

DigitalRaven
Oct 9, 2012




Splicer posted:

As Xarbala said, it's a split that's very common because it's common, so people tend not to think about if it's actually appropriate. Modern D&D is a good example, where strength does attack stuff, con does defence stuff, and agility does both. When you look at the archetypes D&D tries to represent you'll see there's tough guys (str/con), fast guys (dex), smart guys (int), holy guys (wis), and faces (cha), and it's been suffering from this mismatch since 3.x. So whenever I see someone describe something in terms of stats and they do the str/con split (without matching splits elsewhere) my first thought is, are they doing that because they've got a handle on their system and have determined that's the best fit, or are they just copying the same old mistake?

Do stats directly impact effectiveness? Does having higher Power make a bunch of numbers go up? Do some stats make more or better numbers go up than other stats? If the answer is yes to the last one then you have a point buy system where some points are worth more than others.

You could even lean into the gimmick and have your stats be Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, and Heart. Want to lift something or impress someone with your bulk? Earth. Want to go somewhere fast? Fire or Wind. Inspirational leadership? Fire.

The advantage of a power system is that you can have Earth be the Burly stat, being both toughness and melee damage, and have the defence vs offence split be based on power choice. Want to be the defendy guy? Take Stonewall and Earth Abides. Want to be the attack guy? Take Mountain Punch and Stalactites. Then Fire can be the Power stat, and you can choose to focus on being a Blaster vs whatever.

Fireborn did this, but not to quite the extent. I'm working on a game that's going further, using a combination of Approaches (a la FAE) and Traits (a la PDQ), which I'll share when I've got it out of my head.

Foolster41
Aug 2, 2013

"It's a non-speaking role"

Splicer posted:

So whenever I see someone describe something in terms of stats and they do the str/con split (without matching splits elsewhere) my first thought is, are they doing that because they've got a handle on their system and have determined that's the best fit, or are they just copying the same old mistake?

I guess the problem is, I based the five divines on the 5 D&D stats, not thinking about it being a RPG, but just a worldbuilding. So I feel a bit stuck now on those 5. IDK how much I can still use this without going back and completely changing that, which I'd really rather not do.

Splicer posted:

Do stats directly impact effectiveness? Does having higher Power make a bunch of numbers go up? Do some stats make more or better numbers go up than other stats? If the answer is yes to the last one then you have a point buy system where some points are worth more than others.

I'm not sure what you mean. Basically I was thinking Power would increase melee attack dice rolled and damage, Agility would raise ranged attack dice and any defense dice rolled, and Stamina number of HP. Mind and Charm would contribute to raising mental defense. IDK if one stat is better than another. I've been trying to test it out so that they arn't (running simulations on different combos of attributes).

Splicer posted:

You could even lean into the gimmick and have your stats be Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, and Heart. Want to lift something or impress someone with your bulk? Earth. Want to go somewhere fast? Fire or Wind. Inspirational leadership? Fire.

I could totally see Fire be more the intimidate side of charm skills, because of his sort of "inquisitor" personality. so right there is a difference than the typical D&D stats.
Also, I'm tempted to make Agility be more the attack stat (for attack rolls for both ranged and melee) and Power just be the damage. Which would also diverge from typical, and go with the more kung-fu feel I have for this. IDK if that helps overcome some of the problems that'd been brought up.

E: Acutally, I was going to make the charm guy also a water divine, though maybe it makes more sense for knowledge to be water, so I have those elements.

quote:

The advantage of a power system is that you can have Earth be the Burly stat, being both toughness and melee damage, and have the defense vs offense split be based on power choice. Want to be the defendy guy? Take Stonewall and Earth Abides. Want to be the attack guy? Take Mountain Punch and Stalactites. Then Fire can be the Power stat, and you can choose to focus on being a Blaster vs whatever.

I'm not exactly sure I get what you mean. As I said, I don't want to merge them because of the lore I have. Or are you saying they'd stay separate? I do like the idea of each perk group having slightly non-typical abilities (Earth and Wind having striker abilities, Fire having more defensive abilities), but have it so they have a type that's most of their abilities.

Thanks for the feedback so far. I appreciate it. I don't want to fall into "because it's been that way" traps of RPGs.

Foolster41 fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Feb 16, 2019

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all
I’m using the Str/Con split because I’m working on a lovely OSR hack of D&D (a little splash of every edition). A good chunk of your “ow I’m actually injured hp” (bloodmeat) will come from your raw Con score, while the easily restored “normal hp” (grit? moxie?) are modified by your highest stat bonus. You can make a number of good arguments for why any stat would improve your “you didn’t actually hurt me” hp. Yes, even for Charisma and Hotness (why yes I am using comeliness, thanks for asking). The argument I use for Hotness affecting your hp is that the universe is just nicer to attractive people.

Foolster41
Aug 2, 2013

"It's a non-speaking role"
That sounds neat. Actually I do have some perks/abillities for moxie/get back up/DETERMINATION in the power/fire category

Fuego Fish
Dec 5, 2004

By tooth and claw!
New revision of the Dragon Ball Parallels rules: beam battles. They now take place on a sliding scale on the GM's mat, looking like this:



Only less... beta art.

You start by placing a die in the middle of the clash, like so:

And it gets pushed toward one end, like so:

You can only move the die as many spaces as it's showing. But you can increase the given value of the die, like the 13th Age escalation die.

So now it's showing a 2, it moves 2 spaces at a time:



Still working out the exact specifics of moving the die along the scale, when it increases in value, and so on. But I think it's pretty promising so far.

Fashionable Jorts
Jan 18, 2010

Maybe if I'm busy it could keep me from you



I don't really know what it means, but I like it!

BinaryDoubts
Jun 6, 2013

Looking at it now, it really is disgusting. The flesh is transparent. From the start, I had no idea if it would even make a clapping sound. So I diligently reproduced everything about human hands, the bones, joints, and muscles, and then made them slap each other pretty hard.

Sanglorian posted:

Interesting! One of the weaknesses of some of these "yes, but" mechanics is that the danger can feel a bit forced if done badly: "Okay you failed to unlock the door ... I guess there's an orc behind it?"

Whereas starting with the Danger number (and therefore an idea of what the Danger is) beforehand could avoid that. I think there's something to it!

Does risk always equal reward? Or are there low reward, high Danger options and high reward, low Danger options? (And then the follow up - why would/wouldn't you choose them?)

Great question. Adding a "reward" axis to the roll could be interesting, although again it's drifting into re-inventing the Blades position/effect system. That said, given this is a system where there's no inherent risk of failure (just Bad Things Happening Next), I think "reward" is pretty much always going to be "you do what you wanted to do."

In terms of consequences, right now I'm thinking that when the GM sets the Danger level for a given roll, they have to declare what the escalation is in the event of a bad roll (the "yes, but" - Luke shoots open the jail cell, but alerts the guards), plus establish how much damage will be dealt (maybe zero). Players can distribute the damage between their health, their items, and their traits (the latter two being used to build dice pools, and which become damaged/exhausted when assigned damage).

I'm not sure if there would be a strict rule on it, but my feeling is that the more damage you're willing to inflict on a failure, the less severe the narrative consequences should be.

Fuego Fish
Dec 5, 2004

By tooth and claw!

Fashionable Jorts posted:

I don't really know what it means, but I like it!

In the source material, Dragon Ball Z, a lot of characters know at least one special attack that takes the form of a beam of destructive energy. Sometimes fights end spectacularly with hero and villain firing beams directly at each other:



Generally, whoever lacks the resolve and energy (or in plainer terms, is not supposed to win according to the narrative) finds their beam pushed back on them, and then they get blown up. Sometimes fatally, other times not.

And now you know :eng101:

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
One thing that I think everyone should learn from Dragon Ball:

Names are hard. If you shamelessly use themes and puns for names, you'll save yourself an incredible amount of time.

Fuego Fish
Dec 5, 2004

By tooth and claw!

Ghost Leviathan posted:

One thing that I think everyone should learn from Dragon Ball:

Names are hard. If you shamelessly use themes and puns for names, you'll save yourself an incredible amount of time.

Some of the villains I've created for DBP include the four rage spirits of Vandalu (Rasam, Masala, Keema, & Palak) who are all named after types of curry, the space vampire Baron Darkula and his three brides (Drisheen, Gurma, & Morcilla) who are named after types of blood sausage, and the decadent alien hedonist society the Popinjays (Galanthus, Rosa, Ficus, Viola, Dianthus, & Narcissus) who are named after flowers that show up in Romantic era poetry.

I am fully embracing the Dragon Ball aesthetic of themed puns for names.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all
I AM BANANA HAMMOCK, SON OF TRUNKS! I AM HERE TO DEFEAT YOU! AAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAGHAAAA!

Angry Walrus
Aug 31, 2013

Quinn it
to
Win it.
Threw together a first draft of a ruleset for a worldbuilding game a la The Quiet Year and Microscope after getting an idea at work. The idea is the players slowly build a world through writing the flavor text for items in it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fXzQ5jXc25NfEv6x_-Ii5qs6aHkt9-ulQHNBWISYdpE/edit?usp=sharing

Trying to decide on a couple things. First, if there should be a more solid "end" to a phase, if one ends after X number of turns, or if someone draws an Ace and a specific event is tied to that, either a brief RP scene or someone writing a short piece of fiction like the "lore" tab on specific items in Destiny. (Although I'm not sure about including something that would separate a player from the rest for any particular length of time like writing a ~300 word story) The second is if I should attach some form of identity to specific card values, like if a player draws a 2-7, they write the flavor text for an item, a 8-J, a place, and a King or Queen, a person.

UnCO3
Feb 11, 2010

Ye gods!

College Slice
Re: your specific issues (and a couple others):
  1. I definitely think there should be a clearer end to each phase if you want this to be a standalone game - either a hard, explicit limit (like 'after X turns' or 'once the deck is exhausted' or 'after you draw all the face cards') or something emergent (which would probably need altered or more complex mechanics, plus simulation to get the probabilities right).
  2. On the one hand, this looks like a helpful restriction, one that takes some of the less interesting creative burden off the players. On the other, if your link mechanic stays as-is then items will only link to other items, places to places, people to people etc.
  3. Splitting descriptive and narrative text between players is a good idea, in my opinion, and you could take it further by unchaining the two things after a round or so. That is, once the players have some coherent material to work with, then on each turn a player either adds a new item or adds the narrative flavour text to an existing one. That could let ideas percolate for a bit.
  4. Referencing forwards - adding hooks in the flavour text for things that don't exist yet - could maybe have mechanics rather than being freeform.


and now, brace yourself for MY OPINIONS/design theory

Firstly, I feel like the mechanics as-is are similar enough to Microscope that you could actually hack Microscope to get a game that does the same thing, but more focused and with the benefit of a lot more playtesting behind it. You could replace Events with things themselves and their physical descriptions, and replace Scenes with the narrative flavour text (but still having each flavour text answer a question posed by someone).

That said, I think it's a neat concept. Actually, more than The Quiet Year or Microscope, the concept reminds me of Dialect. If you're not familiar with it, it's a game about language growing and dying in an isolated community. You create new words, then play out scenes showing how those words are used. Someone tried running it on here, but it stalled early on because it's a little tricky to run mostly-aimless scenes in PbP one at a time while holding everyone's attention. We (the facilitator and some of the players) discussed how to change the game to make it more PbP-friendly and settled on getting rid of the scenes and maybe adding more actions in the same vein as creating words. That would let us play out a story through the medium of dictionary definitions of new fictional words (the words themselves, etymology, definition, and examples of use) and other similar things. It's still on hold for unrelated reasons, but hopefully it'll get off the ground again and we'll see whether it actually works as a game. Though that stripped-down idea is pretty similar to yours, there are some key differences that make it much more focused:
  • There's an oracle that gives you a general purpose for each new word, e.g. "make a word about a type of friendship that's unique to the isolation" ('the isolation' is how the game refers to the isolated community)
  • All the words connect to (and were purposefully or accidentally created by) a single community of inter-conneted characters and viewpoints
  • Time advances and words start to build on each other - in-story as well as outside
  • There's a rough pre-set story arc

I think it boils down to narrative. At the moment, your game allows for storytelling, but doesn't really support it, outside of the rule where two things can be linked together and kind of the rules for how themes change in each phase. It feels more like an exercise, tool, or add-on than a full game. I think you need a story (or structure people can build a story on) to give the items and flavour text a purpose that people can work towards, and to help the things and flavour text have emotional meaning. To figure out what that story could be, think about what flavour text is and does, what sorts of world-building you want people to do with the game, and why you specifically picked flavour text as the medium to communicate and play this game. Maybe there's a frame story about a typical group of adventurers exploring ruins and dungeons, while the main game is played out through flavour text of the places they explore, the things they loot, and the creatures they fight. If the flavour text is outside their perception, then you can use it to create dramatic irony (e.g. someone massively misinterprets the function of an artefact found in an ancient ruin), indirectly flesh out the characters, or comment on what an adventuring party is (how they're obsessed with fighting monsters and taking their stuff), or whatever else.

Other examples: an archaeological dig investigating the ancient past that's maybe suppressed by a conspiracy or influenced by politics. A desperate last-ditch attempt to preserve human knowledge during collapse of civilisation (stolen from The Talos Principle). Or go the Soulsborne route and have a largely-ignorant hero on a quest while the real story plays out in the background, via flavour text, until the hero comes in to shake things up. Regardless, the frame story part doesn't need to be mechanically or narratively deep in itself, it just needs to be a jumping-off point that 1) gives you subjects to create things on and 2) makes it easier to create things with emotional and symbolic meaning.

shades of eternity
Nov 9, 2013

Where kitties raise dragons in the world's largest mall.
Man completely unsure where to post this, so posting this here.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18lRPSdWShhekMZkvWFuZmc5SKCoQOvNT/view?fbclid=IwAR1Lf_AqUvEsY6tKklZqIJrtWQRY9c-NhU17YFIg_SnpZW6JG2Fifs2eavg

It's an absolutely generic map of the post-apocalypse. :p

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

shades of eternity posted:

Man completely unsure where to post this, so posting this here.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18lRPSdWShhekMZkvWFuZmc5SKCoQOvNT/view?fbclid=IwAR1Lf_AqUvEsY6tKklZqIJrtWQRY9c-NhU17YFIg_SnpZW6JG2Fifs2eavg

It's an absolutely generic map of the post-apocalypse. :p

Have you been stealing my campaign notes?

E:there may or may not be at least one ancient orbital doom laser in my fantasy setting.

shades of eternity
Nov 9, 2013

Where kitties raise dragons in the world's largest mall.

Pvt.Scott posted:

Have you been stealing my campaign notes?

E:there may or may not be at least one ancient orbital doom laser in my fantasy setting.

Naturally

No self-respecting mad scientist would want anything less? :p

but a ragtag team of rangers, metalheads, and apes have teamed up to stop them.

After all, think of the (unsupervised) children. :p

ZorajitZorajit
Sep 15, 2013

No static at all...

shades of eternity posted:

Man completely unsure where to post this, so posting this here.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18lRPSdWShhekMZkvWFuZmc5SKCoQOvNT/view?fbclid=IwAR1Lf_AqUvEsY6tKklZqIJrtWQRY9c-NhU17YFIg_SnpZW6JG2Fifs2eavg

It's an absolutely generic map of the post-apocalypse. :p

I had to keep reminding myself this isn't a new Battle Royale game map.

Zeerust
May 1, 2008

They must have guessed, once or twice - guessed and refused to believe - that everything, always, collectively, had been moving toward that purified shape latent in the sky, that shape of no surprise, no second chance, no return.
That map is excellent!

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

Zeerust posted:

That map is excellent!

I want to roll up a mutant and blow poo poo up there.

Reminds me of the best map:



And my own terrible map:
https://imgur.com/gallery/67fzA

Fashionable Jorts
Jan 18, 2010

Maybe if I'm busy it could keep me from you



Pvt.Scott posted:

Reminds me of the best map:


Took me a second. :golfclap:

shades of eternity
Nov 9, 2013

Where kitties raise dragons in the world's largest mall.
That map seemed somewhat implausible. :D :p

Zeerust
May 1, 2008

They must have guessed, once or twice - guessed and refused to believe - that everything, always, collectively, had been moving toward that purified shape latent in the sky, that shape of no surprise, no second chance, no return.
Beta 2 of EREBUS is complete! The (fixed) PDF is the same document, just formatted differently and with a slight correction of some outdated information.

EREBUS is a tactical board-based RPG in the vein of XCOM and 4e D&D, with a heavy focus on streamlined, ranged combat. Conflict resolution is based around 2d8 rolls, with an 'advantage' system for handling situational bonuses or penalties, and a graded success system for skill checks.

I've tried to keep the character and stat system simple - no ability scores, character generation involves bolting together a Class and Origin then picking your abilities from between the two. The only persistent attrition in the system is Wounds, which give players bonuses in return for them being a little closer to death. Limited-use Items are for confirming kills or altering the battlefield, and can restock automatically at the end of a combat.

I've not included any of my campaign design so far, but I'm writing it to be a little open to customisation by the GM and their players - the game revolves around the invasion of an inhuman, transdimensional army called the Chimera. The objectives and tactics of the Chimera vary by dimension - they might be seeking an artefact buried on Earth, or to infiltrate and harvest humanity, or they might wake up a giant monster to devastate the planet. The Player Characters are part of the human resistance, forming the tactical spearhead of the Chimera War, fighting the crucial battles and missions to find the Chimera's weakness and stop it once and for all.

I'd appreciate initial impressions and feedback, particularly if anyone would have the time/interest to give the playtest scenario a try. I've already got thoughts for Beta 3 - right now I'm thinking of widening the class and origin options, and designing a semi-narrative resource I'm tentatively calling Escalation, which PCs generate through their actions and the GM can spend to activate enemy abilities or create reinforcements.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

Xarbala posted:

To be honest I was just elaborating on Splicer's point more than making one of my own, and illustrating what the various thought processes behind all of these attribute spreads probably was. In some cases the thought was as simple as "complex = better, and hurray simulation".

If you put the footwork in to make, say, a Stamina spec (presuming in this situation that "spec" means dedicating more of your freeform character creation and advancement resources in this direction) mechanically robust and meaningful choice in your system, independent of Power, then you've done more than the majority of RPGs out there that have a Str Con split.

I just remembered that the 4e D&D version of Gamma World allowed for Con based melee and ranged attacks. A huge hammer might let you use Str or Con, a minigun might do the same. Pretty much any weapon where physical mass, stability and endurance would be a major component of wielding the weapon had that option. A minigun is less about precision and more about being able to hold the thing up and keep it steady, after all.

Foolster41
Aug 2, 2013

"It's a non-speaking role"
I'm coming back to this after a bit of a break/being distracted.

I guess the thing is, I really like the idea of the fire/power guy not just being about arm strength, but also drawing the power of fire for magic in some form. Yeah, it's true generally the archtypes of strong guys usually are burly, but I like the idea of doing glass cannon specs as well. (I guess think Zuko from Avatar the last airbender)

And doing that I think makes me I need to make agility the attack roll stat, since boosting both melee attack rolls and magic ability would be unbalanced/make no sense.

I was thinking about theming and mechanics, and how I might make this game feel unique. One Idea I had was since these are lizard-folk characters, having a "heat" track, similar to the escillation die of 13th age, combined with the sandstorm meter of Forbidden desert.

The idea is, as your heat goes up, you add to your attack, but as it goes up, something bad happens as well. I'm not sure what the bad thing is though, maybe a increasing chance of taking damage as the meter goes up? That feels a bit boring though.

The meter would cap out at 5, and reset when you camp in town/oasis, and there'd be other ways to manipulate it up or down. (Perks, and maybe I need some general way as well).
Maybe it needs to reset each battle like the escilation die does, though I feel like it goes against the thematcs. I feel also like maybe 5 is too low and I need it to increase slower (gaps in the track so it doesn't go up by 1 each turn, or make the maximum higher). I don't know if this is interesting, or an unnecessary gimmick.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

Foolster41 posted:

I'm coming back to this after a bit of a break/being distracted.

I guess the thing is, I really like the idea of the fire/power guy not just being about arm strength, but also drawing the power of fire for magic in some form. Yeah, it's true generally the archtypes of strong guys usually are burly, but I like the idea of doing glass cannon specs as well. (I guess think Zuko from Avatar the last airbender)

And doing that I think makes me I need to make agility the attack roll stat, since boosting both melee attack rolls and magic ability would be unbalanced/make no sense.

I was thinking about theming and mechanics, and how I might make this game feel unique. One Idea I had was since these are lizard-folk characters, having a "heat" track, similar to the escillation die of 13th age, combined with the sandstorm meter of Forbidden desert.

The idea is, as your heat goes up, you add to your attack, but as it goes up, something bad happens as well. I'm not sure what the bad thing is though, maybe a increasing chance of taking damage as the meter goes up? That feels a bit boring though.

The meter would cap out at 5, and reset when you camp in town/oasis, and there'd be other ways to manipulate it up or down. (Perks, and maybe I need some general way as well).
Maybe it needs to reset each battle like the escilation die does, though I feel like it goes against the thematcs. I feel also like maybe 5 is too low and I need it to increase slower (gaps in the track so it doesn't go up by 1 each turn, or make the maximum higher). I don't know if this is interesting, or an unnecessary gimmick.

I think the best bet would be to do some reading in cold-blooded creatures and find out what sort of physiological changes they undergo when warmed up. There may even be some oddball lizards that have a vastly different reaction than the typical one that you could crib from. I don’t know poo poo about any of this.

What I can think of off the cuff is that more heat means more energy, strength and speed, but also an increase of pain sensitivity and emotional responses. Maybe a hot lizardman is more susceptible to things like fear and mind control and is more hindered by injury? Maybe A cool lizardman could defuse a nuclear bomb in the middle of a WWI l-style artillery bombardment without losing concentration for a single moment?

Foolster41
Aug 2, 2013

"It's a non-speaking role"
The vulnreable idea is a good one. I'll have to see how that balances out for how severe to make it.

I guess the next thing since I feel like I"m getting close to testplay redyness is to make up some scenarios and try to get test players.

The problem is, I was thinking scenerios would avoid dungeons (i..e tombs), since Salthans don't burry thier dead (they cremate) and maybe make the game have a different feel than Dungeons and Dragons/Typical fantasy RPGs.
But I feel like maybe there's a reason why dungeons are so commonly used. I know i've played encounters that were less dungeon-like, but I'm having a hard time finding resources on building non-dungeon adventures/encounters.

I guess part of it is geting a feel for the world and what kind of stories I can tell. The world is mostly wilderness with walled cities dotted along the world at Oasises. i Imagine there would be occasional rock features and caves (likely hiding bandits) too, but I don't know what other interesting places there would be, or an idea of the types of stories I'd tell in a more "urban" enviroment in the cities.

I've come up with a bunch of monsters from the mythology that I think are interesting, such as "sun smites" (basicly walking mini-suns), Neksana (Cactus whip monsters), Nalsiskite (Desert sirens with bodies made of smoke), Living Shadows, Reltonsan (Ash-Zombies) and Nekhas (crabs with vine tendrils.)

Also, Turtle people, Snake People, giant Scorpions and Dust Devils.

But there has to be a reason why the party is out in the desert to be attacked by them.

Foolster41 fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Apr 1, 2019

Zeerust
May 1, 2008

They must have guessed, once or twice - guessed and refused to believe - that everything, always, collectively, had been moving toward that purified shape latent in the sky, that shape of no surprise, no second chance, no return.
Do the settlements trade with one another? You could have a merchant guild hire the party to find a vanished caravan out in the wastes, leading to, say, a cliff village or pueblo out in the desert.

Foolster41
Aug 2, 2013

"It's a non-speaking role"
Yeah, that was one idea I thought of (With a few ideas on twists on that), but "look for lost shipments" can't be the only kind of mission.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Pvt.Scott posted:

I just remembered that the 4e D&D version of Gamma World allowed for Con based melee and ranged attacks. A huge hammer might let you use Str or Con, a minigun might do the same. Pretty much any weapon where physical mass, stability and endurance would be a major component of wielding the weapon had that option. A minigun is less about precision and more about being able to hold the thing up and keep it steady, after all.
In EotE/Genesys Brawn is Str + Con and is the aiming stat for Real Big Guns.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Foolster41 posted:

I'm not sure what you mean. Basically I was thinking Power would increase melee attack dice rolled and damage, Agility would raise ranged attack dice and any defense dice rolled, and Stamina number of HP. Mind and Charm would contribute to raising mental defense. IDK if one stat is better than another. I've been trying to test it out so that they arn't (running simulations on different combos of attributes).
I meant that if you look at what you "get" from a point in each stat, are some stats giving you more stuff? In D&D a point in Dex gets you way more stuff than a point in Str or Con or, unless you're the appropriate spellcaster, Int or Cha. This holds true as a splash stat: a couple of points in dex will compliment most builds but a few points in strength or int have minimal synergy.

Foolster41 posted:

Also, I'm tempted to make Agility be more the attack stat (for attack rolls for both ranged and melee) and Power just be the damage. Which would also diverge from typical, and go with the more kung-fu feel I have for this. IDK if that helps overcome some of the problems that'd been brought up.
Again it depends on implementation, but Agility would then be needed for any form of effective physical attacks and you'd get free defence out of it, so my first instinct would be to cap out agility so as to get the most bang for my buck (and more turns where I get to succeed, succeeding is fun!) and put the leftovers in the others. When you say power increases damage do you mean all powers, ranged attacks, spells etc? Are there other potential ways to up damage that may be "cheaper" than investing ability score points?

Foolster41 posted:

I'm not exactly sure I get what you mean. As I said, I don't want to merge them because of the lore I have.
I get that yeah, I was responding to your saying you wanting players to be able to specialise between being tough and being strong to say that mechanically with a power system you can represent that even if tough and strong pull off the same stat. Sure we both have 5 brawn so we have the same HP and raw attack, but my powers are all murder based powers and yours are all about staying alive.

Splicer fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Apr 1, 2019

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Foolster41 posted:

I'm coming back to this after a bit of a break/being distracted.

I guess the thing is, I really like the idea of the fire/power guy not just being about arm strength, but also drawing the power of fire for magic in some form. Yeah, it's true generally the archtypes of strong guys usually are burly, but I like the idea of doing glass cannon specs as well. (I guess think Zuko from Avatar the last airbender)

And doing that I think makes me I need to make agility the attack roll stat, since boosting both melee attack rolls and magic ability would be unbalanced/make no sense.
I somehow completely missed this post. Have Fire be magic blaster damage and accuracy, Earth be melee/thrown mundane damage and accuracy, Wind be ranged mundane damage and accuracy, and split the rest of your magic sensibly between the two mental stats.

Zeerust
May 1, 2008

They must have guessed, once or twice - guessed and refused to believe - that everything, always, collectively, had been moving toward that purified shape latent in the sky, that shape of no surprise, no second chance, no return.

Foolster41 posted:

Yeah, that was one idea I thought of (With a few ideas on twists on that), but "look for lost shipments" can't be the only kind of mission.

How about being hired out by a cartographer's guild to map out a region, say, to find water sources or some kind of archaeological site? It gives the desert setting room to breathe and forces the players to directly interact with it, setting out the threats and opportunities posed.

Foolster41
Aug 2, 2013

"It's a non-speaking role"

Splicer posted:

I meant that if you look at what you "get" from a point in each stat, are some stats giving you more stuff? In D&D a point in Dex gets you way more stuff than a point in Str or Con or, unless you're the appropriate spellcaster, Int or Cha. This holds true as a splash stat: a couple of points in dex will compliment most builds but a few points in strength or int have minimal synergy.
Yeah, I worry in this system Agillity maybe does more than the other stats, since it's both good for both attack and DF. I might have to up how much HP you get, and I'm not sure what for Power to make it more equal.

quote:

Again it depends on implementation, but Agility would then be needed for any form of effective physical attacks and you'd get free defence out of it, so my first instinct would be to cap out agility so as to get the most bang for my buck (and more turns where I get to succeed, succeeding is fun!) and put the leftovers in the others. When you say power increases damage do you mean all powers, ranged attacks, spells etc? Are there other potential ways to up damage that may be "cheaper" than investing ability score points?

what do you mean cap out Agillity? Make it so you can't raise it as high as the other stats? Maybe. I was thinkng it'd be a general stat that raises melee, ranged and magic (at least, fire magic).

The only other character improvement aspect I have is perks, which you get 1/level (and start with 3) and there could be ways of upping damage that way, such as geting boosts to your attack or damage rolls. I"m not sure how that compares in terms of cost to the player.

quote:

I get that yeah, I was responding to your saying you wanting players to be able to specialise between being tough and being strong to say that mechanically with a power system you can represent that even if tough and strong pull off the same stat. Sure we both have 5 brawn so we have the same HP and raw attack, but my powers are all murder based powers and yours are all about staying alive.
I guess I feel like there's a bit less freedom of variation with a single stat then, if they have the same HP and attack bonus, and the only difference is powers.

Splicer posted:

I somehow completely missed this post. Have Fire be magic blaster damage and accuracy, Earth be melee/thrown mundane damage and accuracy, Wind be ranged mundane damage and accuracy, and split the rest of your magic sensibly between the two mental stats.

Hmm. That's an interesting idea. I'll consider it. I feel like making fire magic's attack based on fire/power makes that stat too strong and gives Mind less to do, though it's an interesting idea to have the different kinds of magic be based on their base stat (i.e attack with earth magic with Stamina, wind magic with agillity). I'd have to figure out what Mind does, beyond knowledge checks, since I'd want it to have some combat purpose to make it not near worthless. (Maybe # of casts of spells?)

Zeerust posted:

How about being hired out by a cartographer's guild to map out a region, say, to find water sources or some kind of archaeological site? It gives the desert setting room to breathe and forces the players to directly interact with it, setting out the threats and opportunities posed.

That's another good idea.I feel like I need to come up with a tone/feel that I want to center this world around, like political intregue/war between city-states or sometthing else as a main idea.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all
One decent idea for any setting is to make PCs part of an official troubleshooter organization, like old western US Marshals or biblical heroic judges. Give them enough authority that the organization typically grants begrudging hospitality and technical immunity, but have the organization on the outs with people in general and/or in decline. Scatter big slumbering threats everywhere, city-states/kingdoms/local authorities at cross purposes and a generally lawless countryside. Bam! Players have autonomy, a loose purpose, and are expected to help people, though their aid may only be accepted officially by authorities if things are really bad.

I just realized Fallout 4 did that with the Minutemen.

Small Strange Bird
Sep 22, 2006

Merci, chaton!
Could be a good hook for a fantasy version of Judge Dredd when he takes a team on one of his semi-regular jaunts into the Cursed Earth. Hell, you could literally call them Judges, dispensing the law of whatever kingdom sent them.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

Pvt.Scott posted:

One decent idea for any setting is to make PCs part of an official troubleshooter organization, like old western US Marshals or biblical heroic judges. Give them enough authority that the organization typically grants begrudging hospitality and technical immunity, but have the organization on the outs with people in general and/or in decline. Scatter big slumbering threats everywhere, city-states/kingdoms/local authorities at cross purposes and a generally lawless countryside. Bam! Players have autonomy, a loose purpose, and are expected to help people, though their aid may only be accepted officially by authorities if things are really bad.

I just realized Fallout 4 did that with the Minutemen.


Payndz posted:

Could be a good hook for a fantasy version of Judge Dredd when he takes a team on one of his semi-regular jaunts into the Cursed Earth. Hell, you could literally call them Judges, dispensing the law of whatever kingdom sent them.

These both sound like they have a lot in common with Dogs in the Vineyard.

Foolster41
Aug 2, 2013

"It's a non-speaking role"

Pvt.Scott posted:

One decent idea for any setting is to make PCs part of an official troubleshooter organization, like old western US Marshals or biblical heroic judges. Give them enough authority that the organization typically grants begrudging hospitality and technical immunity, but have the organization on the outs with people in general and/or in decline. Scatter big slumbering threats everywhere, city-states/kingdoms/local authorities at cross purposes and a generally lawless countryside. Bam! Players have autonomy, a loose purpose, and are expected to help people, though their aid may only be accepted officially by authorities if things are really bad.

I just realized Fallout 4 did that with the Minutemen.


That's a good idea.

I think I shot myself in the foot when I was designing this as a world, before I imagined it as a RPG setting,

Basically I pictured it as a wasteland where there are no settlements, only large cities and uninhabited wastes (except maybe small bandit settlements in caves). Having no real small settlements or interesting points of interest like tombs/vaults/ancient Dwarven cities kind of makes it less interesting as a RPG setting, and so I think I need to rethink those assumptions I think, and at the very least put back in small settlements.

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Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

Davin Valkri posted:

These both sound like they have a lot in common with Dogs in the Vineyard.

Same premise as in Kevin Crawford’s Spears of the Dawn, classical heroes such as Beowulf or Hercules, and pretty much any superhero ensemble team. “Gilgamesh and Enkidu, they fight crime, but boy do they have a spotty image with the public!”

Also, Dogs is my second favorite RPG that I’ve never played. The first is, of course, Ghost Dog, Way of the Samurai.

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