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Who do you want to be the 2020 Democratic Nominee? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe "the liberal who fights busing" Biden |
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27 | 1.40% |
| Bernie "please don't die" Sanders |
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1017 | 52.69% |
| Cory "charter schools" Booker |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Kirsten "wall street" Gillibrand |
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24 | 1.24% |
| Kamala "truancy queen" Harris |
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59 | 3.06% |
| Julian "who?" Castro |
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7 | 0.36% |
| Tulsi "gay panic" Gabbard |
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25 | 1.30% |
| Michael "crimes crimes crimes" Avenatti |
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22 | 1.14% |
| Sherrod "discount bernie" Brown |
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21 | 1.09% |
| Amy "horrible boss" Klobuchar |
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12 | 0.62% |
| Tammy "stands for america" Duckworth |
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48 | 2.49% |
| Beto "whataburger" O'Rourke |
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32 | 1.66% |
| Elizabeth "instagram beer" Warren |
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284 | 14.72% |
| Tom "impeach please" Steyer |
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4 | 0.21% |
| Michael "soda is the devil" Bloomberg |
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9 | 0.47% |
| Joseph Stalin |
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287 | 14.87% |
| Howard "coffee republican" Schultz |
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10 | 0.52% |
Jay "nobody cares about climate change  " Inslee |
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13 | 0.67% |
| Pete "gently caress the homeless" Butt Man |
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17 | 0.88% |
| Total: | 1930 votes | ||
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She also was very careful in picking King as a target, because King was in the middle of a controversy recently with regards to that whole "looking for the shooter" thing where some black women went after him and he overreacted and lawyered up, so this is Maxwell is trying to take advantage of that fracture within the left. Because King never explicitly calls her a liar, but Joy did. Joy explicitly called Maxwell a liar, but you can't push the "he has a problem with black women" angle with her. It's all extremely cynical.
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Mar 4, 2019 19:07
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mandatory lesbian posted:Really coming out the gates swinging there Negotiating with terrorists is a bad idea. Also: Please don't run for Senate after this fails, John. You will guarantee us another 6 years of Gardner. Most Coloradan's thought you were a barely adequate governor and your competitors were jokes. I also know about you sucking up to my company's founder. Offering to break your promise to your Western Slope supporters to never wear a tie if it made him happy at an event where you were going to give a speech about our expansion in Denver. It's a minor thing, but it says tons. Luckily, he told you to keep your promise.
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Mar 4, 2019 19:15
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Lightning Knight posted:[looks at ID] I’m a Mexican Catholic, so I can endorse this message. This dumbass probably sees this primary as a way to raise his national profile but just lol to that. I can’t see this playing out in any way that doesn’t make him look like an absolute ghoul and poison his brand for decades to come. This is basically the worst year to run on being extra nice to Republicans.
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Mar 4, 2019 19:26
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The Dems giving up a bunch of winnable Senate seats because every locally appealing candidate insists on running doomed Presidential campaigns feels incredibly on-brand
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Mar 4, 2019 19:31
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:He has a white mom and a white dad. But his biological father is a light skinned black man and he was conceived during his parents marriage. So obviously something he doesn't like to talk about since it involves his mom's sexual history while she was married (for the same reason an extremely lovely thing to attack him on) drat lol
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Mar 4, 2019 19:39
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https://twitter.com/politico/status/1102618497912328192 Hmm, yes, that does seem like it might be an important question
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Mar 4, 2019 19:40
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What sparked all the reparations talk recently? I don't think I've ever heard it discussed this much before.
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Mar 4, 2019 19:51
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/politico/status/1102618497912328192 It is and why isn't it being asked of everyone bar Sanders and Warren?
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Mar 4, 2019 19:55
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Fitzy Fitz posted:What sparked all the reparations talk recently? I don't think I've ever heard it discussed this much before. Warren and Harris claimed to be for reparations. Of course, they didn't actually mean that. Harris, for example, talked about her LIFT act, which is tax cuts for anyone making less than 100k regardless of race. But that gave people the perfect excuse to keep hammering the talking point about Bernie and Black people. So Harris and Warren say they support reparations by proposing race neutral tax credit or transfer programs that are not reparations in any way, shape or form, and a huge chunk of the media then uses that to talk about how Bernie is one of the few candidates not to support reparations.
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Mar 4, 2019 19:58
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The Kingfish posted:drat lol Thanks mom
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Mar 4, 2019 19:58
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joepinetree posted:She also was very careful in picking King as a target, because King was in the middle of a controversy recently with regards to that whole "looking for the shooter" thing where some black women went after him and he overreacted and lawyered up, so this is Maxwell is trying to take advantage of that fracture within the left. Because King never explicitly calls her a liar, but Joy did. Joy explicitly called Maxwell a liar, but you can't push the "he has a problem with black women" angle with her. It's all extremely cynical. Is Joy reading the thread? https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/status/1102625619534331907?s=19
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Mar 4, 2019 19:59
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:Is Joy reading the thread? Brie is an excellent follow and read for the primary, y'all. She is sharp as hell and willing to criticize anyone and give praise where it's due.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:04
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joepinetree posted:Warren and Harris claimed to be for reparations. Of course, they didn't actually mean that. Harris, for example, talked about her LIFT act, which is tax cuts for anyone making less than 100k regardless of race. But that gave people the perfect excuse to keep hammering the talking point about Bernie and Black people. So Harris and Warren say they support reparations by proposing race neutral tax credit or transfer programs that are not reparations in any way, shape or form, and a huge chunk of the media then uses that to talk about how Bernie is one of the few candidates not to support reparations. OK, I knew Blitzer cited them during Bernie's town hall the other day, but I thought he had just pulled that question out of thin air. It's disorienting for me because I want candidates to endorse strong reparations policies, but clearly most of the conversation is a farce. And now I'm seeing Bernie called out legitimately from the left for being wishywashy on reparations, and I agree, but it seems wrong given the context of how the current conversation started.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:06
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joepinetree posted:Warren and Harris claimed to be for reparations. Of course, they didn't actually mean that. Harris, for example, talked about her LIFT act, which is tax cuts for anyone making less than 100k regardless of race. But that gave people the perfect excuse to keep hammering the talking point about Bernie and Black people. So Harris and Warren say they support reparations by proposing race neutral tax credit or transfer programs that are not reparations in any way, shape or form, and a huge chunk of the media then uses that to talk about how Bernie is one of the few candidates not to support reparations. To be fair to Warren, she referred to a proposal she has that specifically gives minorities help in making a down payment towards a home. So her approach wasn't race neutral Also I don't think she's saying her bill is the end all/be all of ways to make reparations, but an example https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-warren/senator-elizabeth-warren-backs-reparations-for-black-americans-idUSKCN1QA2WF quote:“We must confront the dark history of slavery and government-sanctioned discrimination in this country that has had many consequences including undermining the ability of Black families to build wealth in America for generations,” Warren, who is white, said in a statement to Reuters.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:07
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Actually speaking to Kamala supporters it seems like their only criteria for candidates is they’re not old white men. They’re all also Hillary die hards
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Mar 4, 2019 20:10
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theblackw0lf posted:To be fair to Warren, she referred to a proposal she has that specifically gives minorities help in making a down payment towards a home. So her approach wasn't race neutral Well, the point is that Harris and Warren claimed to be in support of reparations and then pointed to policy positions that they've long held and that at no point had been called reparations or things that are completely vague. Which led the media to write things like: https://www.salon.com/2019/02/28/bernie-sanders-dismisses-kamala-harris-and-elizabeth-warrens-calls-for-slavery-reparations/ While only occasionally noting, in passing if at all, that the policies that these people are calling reparations aren't actually reparations.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:11
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Also the idea that the Democratic party at large which is currently fighting very hard to not be pulled left on MFA which has wide cross party support from voters is going to realistically push for reparations which do not is incredibly disingenuous.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:16
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Fitzy Fitz posted:What sparked all the reparations talk recently? I don't think I've ever heard it discussed this much before. It's related to some inter-PoC drama that's been taking off lately on Twitter. I'm not that versed in it, but as best as I can tell (please, someone, correct me on all the bits I'm horribly off-base on, because my understanding is pretty basic), the longtime friction between African-Americans and more recent African immigrants to America has erupted into a movement calling itself American Descendants of Slavery (#ADOS), which argues that African-Americans who can trace their American roots back to before the Civil War are entitled to more generous treatment than transplants who've only been here a generation or two at most. It argues that African-Americans who were brought here as slaves in the 1700s are not members of the same group as (for example) a first-generation African-American whose parents came here from Africa in the 1970s, and that the two groups should be treated differently in both rhetoric and policy, despite their similar skin color. Because reparations for slavery (and the idea that those reparations should be limited only to actual descendants of slaves) are fundamental to this argument, they've been popping up a lot in Twitter drama, and have apparently made their way into townhall sessions and reporters' question lists. I'm sure it also helps that many prominent early #ADOS figures are well-off members of the professional class (such as lawyers, journalists, and Congressional aides) so the mainstream political media occasionally hears a word or two they say but hasn't really comprehended the whole issue, except to notice that black people on Twitter are suddenly talking a lot about who deserves reparations.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:22
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Radish posted:Also the idea that the Democratic party at large which is currently fighting very hard to not be pulled left on MFA which has wide cross party support from voters is going to realistically push for reparations which do not is incredibly disingenuous. Yeah, it's the Schrodinger's like characteristic of Bernie. Someone who simultaneously only appeals to but will never win the vote of red state white voters, who is pushing policies that are too radical and unrealistic but also not at all different from what establishment candidates are pushing, who has crowds that simultaneously only have white people and uses too many minorities as tokens, and gives speeches that are simultaneously offensive for trying to talk too much about the civil rights movement and not mentioning race at all.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:27
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:Is Joy reading the thread? Well, it's pretty loving obvious what they're doing, and Brie seems like a real sharp lady, so prolly not.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:32
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Reparations have multiple problems that mean that while a lot of people spend time arguing for and supporting them in concept, there are few specific proposals that have any sort of consensus. Basically there are two problems. The first is targetting, which has several issues: A) it's hard to trace slave lineages because of poor record keeping during the century of post-abolition legalized discrimination, B) black people who aren't descended from slaves but had ancestors who lived during that century were also demonstrably harmed in largely similar ways, and C) black people from west africa were clearly harmed by the slave trade, even if their ancestors weren't personally enslaved. The second problem is the form of the reparations themselves: A) the damage is basically incalculable; in addition to hundreds of billions to trillions in stolen labor, there's hundreds of thousands to millions of wrongful deaths and other forms of suffering, and again, that century of post-abolition discrimination, B) just handing over a big chunk of money is infeasible and wouldn't have the desired effect, and C) everyone should have universal social services, so that method is out. It's really easy to say 'I support reparations' much extremely difficult to say what those should actually be.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:33
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https://twitter.com/ZerlinaMaxwell/status/610998890876260352
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Mar 4, 2019 20:35
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:Is Joy reading the thread? If she's not we could always invite her. I'm like 0 for 2 on inviting Online Twitter People to c spam and I plan to keep that win rate at 0.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:37
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just saw someone on twitter refer to shaun king as "Martin Luther Cream" and "Talcum X." Not cool, but p. funny.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:40
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Cerebral Bore posted:Well, it's pretty loving obvious what they're doing, and Brie seems like a real sharp lady, so prolly not. Found this in the Zerlina thread about King (King didn't use the slur, someone just posted this screenshot in that thread)  that's a big ol' 
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Mar 4, 2019 20:41
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joepinetree posted:Well, the point is that Harris and Warren claimed to be in support of reparations and then pointed to policy positions that they've long held and that at no point had been called reparations or things that are completely vague. I agree that the attacks on Bernie are unfair and disingenuous, and Bernie was attacked for raising an important point. i just think it's also inaccurate to say that Warren doesn't really mean she supports reparations. Her own campaign has said that the housing bill she proposed a while back isn't actually reparations, which makes me think that she didn't mean to suggest that bill was a form of reparations, contrary to reporting. Hard to say without the actual clip though. She has mentioned though we need to have a discussion about reparations would actually look like though, and also that native Americans should be part of that conversation. I think Warren's approach is "I support reparations, but we have to determine what that looks like". And Bernie's is "I don't know if I support reparations, because we don't know what that looks like yet". Which in a way those positions are somewhat similar in that they acknowledge the ambiguity of what reparations really means, and a need for discussion about it.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:46
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Zerlina has a powerful mind https://twitter.com/ZerlinaMaxwell/status/1102614784414023681
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Mar 4, 2019 20:48
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how can these people never log off.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:51
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The Kingfish posted:Zerlina has a powerful mind
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Mar 4, 2019 20:52
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Groovelord Neato posted:how can these people never log off. if they could log off they wouldn't be extremely online if they weren't extremely online, they wouldn't need to log off in short, the internet is a land of contrasts
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Mar 4, 2019 20:54
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Wow Clinton people really have a knack for poisoning discourse.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:56
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The Kingfish posted:Zerlina has a powerful mind So you can't use "lie" and you can't use "false accusation." What is the word that we should use when talking about a statement about another person that is not true? "Truth-challenged statement?"
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Mar 4, 2019 20:57
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You are supposed to shut up and let them redefine reality.
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Mar 4, 2019 20:58
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It's just your typical bad faith corporate media attack. Claim that Harris supports reparations (she doesn't) while carefully avoiding ever mentioning exactly what she means (means-tested colorblind tax credits), so they can call Bernie a big ol racist despite his platform being demonstrably better for black people than Kamala's because he won't say word-for-word "I want to raise taxes on the shrinking white middle class and hand out government checks to black people" (and if he ever does say anything remotely resembling that, then they will immediately flip on the issue and relentlessly attack him for taking your money and giving it to lazy welfare queens with 10 kids for the next year, while contrasting Harris' compassionate approach to reparations that helps all Americans or w/e).joepinetree posted:So you can't use "lie" and you can't use "false accusation." What is the word that we should use when talking about a statement about another person that is not true? "Truth-challenged statement?" "Alternative fact"
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Mar 4, 2019 21:06
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Same as when Vox ran that hit piece on Bernie last cycle about how he doesn't support open borders.
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Mar 4, 2019 21:08
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joepinetree posted:So you can't use "lie" and you can't use "false accusation." What is the word that we should use when talking about a statement about another person that is not true? "Truth-challenged statement?" I believe the accepted parlance is “alternative facts.”
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Mar 4, 2019 21:09
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Yeah that open borders article was another example of this tactic. Take some radical fringe position and demand Bernie endorse it in its most radical form, then when he doesn't, imply it's a huge departure from the rest of the field and attack him as an alt-right racist while making sure never to ask about nor report on similar stances from the other candidates. Of course if he did support it, they'd attack him with Middle America as a radical SJW whacko and contrast all the other candidates' "pragmatic, compassionate, yet sensible approaches" to border control or reparations or whatever. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Mar 4, 2019 |
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Mar 4, 2019 21:18
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It's pretty similar to when Beto's actual history got reported and they all freaked out. It's pretty clear the Sensible people in the media are all totally off their rockers. They won't actually debate based on policies (because they know theirs either have been tried and failed or are hated for being more austerity) and have decided ramping up every debate into insane levels of screaming about personal attacks is the way to go. The biggest issue is this is going to continue poisoning the well and everyone is going to hate each other come 2020 even more. I don't see how they push Biden while demonizing the large segment of Bernie supporters using this kind of extreme language and expect to get people to turn out for the actual election should they succeed in the primary.
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Mar 4, 2019 21:18
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Radish posted:It's pretty similar to when Beto's actual history got reported and they all freaked out. It's pretty clear the Sensible people in the media are all totally off their rockers. They won't actually debate based on policies (because they know theirs either have been tried and failed or are hated for being more austerity) and have decided ramping up every debate into insane levels of screaming about personal attacks is the way to go. The biggest issue is this is going to continue poisoning the well and everyone is going to hate each other come 2020 even more. I don't see how they push Biden while demonizing the large segment of Bernie supporters using this kind of extreme language and expect to get people to turn out for the actual election should they succeed in the primary. The worst-case scenario is Trump gets reelected which to them is leagues better than a Sanders presidency (which unlike Trump is an actual threat to the power structure that sits atop this country regardless of party), so from their perspective there's no reason not to go scorched earth. Plus just like 2016 they can blame Bernie Bros when their lovely centrist candidate gets annihilated by Trump and radicalize the center even further against any hint of social democracy.
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Mar 4, 2019 21:23
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 02:22 |
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Interesting perspective on Elizabeth Warren from indigenous folks. I thought she was starting to do a little better, but I'm not sure now. The White Supremacy of Elizabeth Warren
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Mar 4, 2019 21:26
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