[Dune Thread] Gundam Idaho

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White Phosphorus: Sep 12, 2000

I never read any of the later books. But did Frank Herbert ever go into the origins of the Fremen. Were they on the planet before it was officially discovered? Pre Butlerian Jihad? Before spice production? Post spice production settlers that ran off and got good at living in the desert?

# ? Mar 8, 2019 05:58

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 23:07

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

IIRC the basic backstory of the Fremen is that they're basically forcibly relocated people from a future-Muslim population (Zensunni I figure) who are still pretty pissed they were denied the Hajj, probably specifically to harvest Spice, and presumably over many, many years they ran off and adapted to the desert.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 06:17

Take the plunge! Okay!: Feb 24, 2007

Wasn�t the word Fremen a corruption of Frenchmen?

e: yes they are - https://m.imgur.com/t/caterpillar/MUI3N83

Take the plunge! Okay! fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Mar 8, 2019

# ? Mar 8, 2019 07:30

SpaceGoatFarts: Jan 5, 2010; sic transit gloria mundi; Nap Ghost

French don't shower; it checks out

# ? Mar 8, 2019 08:21

AFewBricksShy: Jun 19, 2003; of a full load.

I've been reading Dune again, and I had a question about the Bene Gesserit's plan for the Kwisatz Haderach.

They spend 10,000 years meticulously breeding certain bloodlines in order to achieve their ultimate human, who could predict the future and according to the Dune Wiki "...would be Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother, Mentat, and Guild Navigator, all in one being."

Which, as hilarious as it is that one person falling in love hosed up their entire plan, still seems kind of like a wet fart of a plan.

You get a guy that can predict the future and will be pretty awesome all around on the emperor's throne, but it's still just one lifetime. What's the plan after that? Leto II had to become a worm to achieve his immortality, to my knowledge the Bene Gesserit had no such plans for that. They do mention that Emperor Shaddam IV seems way younger than he is due to the spice. Even figuring on a longer timeline, you'd get maybe 100 years out of the KH.

AFewBricksShy fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Mar 8, 2019

# ? Mar 8, 2019 16:08

SpaceGoatFarts: Jan 5, 2010; sic transit gloria mundi; Nap Ghost

I think the plan was seize power and keep it afterward

# ? Mar 8, 2019 16:18

Anne Frank Funk: Nov 4, 2008

If Paul "Muad Dib" Muad Dib was able to affect the galaxy as he did on his own, I'd guess the sisterhood hoped that with a KH under their control similar changes would be possible, only for the benefit of Bene Gesserit.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 16:19

andrew smash: Jun 26, 2006; smooth soul

Worked out for them in the long term anyway

# ? Mar 8, 2019 16:47

Anne Frank Funk: Nov 4, 2008

btw, Dune may be the only property where the galaxy brain meme applies

# ? Mar 8, 2019 16:51

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

It�s not just the one. Once you breed the trait you can breed it back into the line and make it a permanent feature. That�s why the sisterhood was exploring inbreeding Leto and Ghanima. Basically you can produce a KH on demand, and they�ll all be products of your schooling and hopefully your control.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 16:52

phasmid: Jan 16, 2015; Booty Shaker
SILENT MAJORITY

Yeah, that's the thing of it.

And I hope that guy was joking about the Fremen being French. This is the no @duneauthor thread!

# ? Mar 8, 2019 17:29

YoursTruly: Jul 29, 2012; Put me in the ~~trash~~
Recycle Bin
where
I belong.

I've only read the first book, but did Paul or Leto II ever fold space?

# ? Mar 8, 2019 18:58

Doc Hawkins: Jun 15, 2010; Dashing? But I'm not even moving!

AFewBricksShy posted:

I've been reading Dune again, and I had a question about the Bene Gesserit's plan for the Kwisatz Haderach.

They spend 10,000 years meticulously breeding certain bloodlines in order to achieve their ultimate human, who could predict the future and according to the Dune Wiki "...would be Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother, Mentat, and Guild Navigator, all in one being."

Which, as hilarious as it is that one person falling in love hosed up their entire plan, still seems kind of like a wet fart of a plan.

You get a guy that can predict the future and will be pretty awesome all around on the emperor's throne, but it's still just one lifetime. What's the plan after that? Leto II had to become a worm to achieve his immortality, to my knowledge the Bene Gesserit had no such plans for that. They do mention that Emperor Shaddam IV seems way younger than he is due to the spice. Even figuring on a longer timeline, you'd get maybe 100 years out of the KH.

I think it's a kind of singularity: they have no way of predicting what a society capable of actually predicting the future would decide to do, but they refuse to give in to the fear that they won't be able to control it, because that would mean avoiding a form of progress of innate human capabilities, which is antithetical to the dune universe in general, but especially to them. It's effectively the civic religion, of which they serve as imams, and they refuse to abuse that position to stay comfortable and thwart change. They are already incredibly powerful in their society, and apparently cautious and secretive, but doing what they're doing is an enormous risk; I think they only motive that makes sense is philosophical/religious.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 19:12

Phil Moscowitz: Feb 19, 2007; If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

And perfect sexy pussy power

# ? Mar 8, 2019 19:20

Riot Bimbo: Dec 28, 2006

YoursTruly posted:

I've only read the first book, but did Paul or Leto II ever fold space?

Im not sure leto ii ever left arrakis, before or after metamorphosis

# ? Mar 8, 2019 20:24

adebisi lives: Nov 11, 2009

basic hitler posted:

Im not sure leto ii ever left arrakis, before or after metamorphosis

Actually in the next book by new york times best selling author @duneauthor we are treated with the untold tale of leto II personally leading a fish speaker strike against a sith fortress to prevent a dark force user prescient super robot from exploding the galaxy.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 20:36

hawowanlawow: Jul 27, 2009

adebisi lives posted:

Actually in the next book by new york times best selling author @duneauthor we are treated with the untold tale of leto II personally leading a fish speaker strike against a sith fortress to prevent a dark force user prescient super robot from exploding the galaxy.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 20:44

kiimo: Jul 24, 2003

I know Paul never folded space, the threat of ending spice production alone was enough to freak the Guild out and thoroughly do whatever he wanted.

I think Leto used the Guild for a while but part of his Golden Path was reducing space travel and forcing humanity into a Renaissance middle ages Pleasure Faire kind of existence so there wasn't much space folding to be done.

I'm not sure where no-ships fall into this sort of thing but I don't remember the Guild being part of that.

Also I found it very uncomfortable that there was a Guild navigator involved in the wanna be plot in Children against Leto II and he was a whiny bitch that the others looked down on.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 20:49

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

AFewBricksShy posted:

I've been reading Dune again, and I had a question about the Bene Gesserit's plan for the Kwisatz Haderach.

They spend 10,000 years meticulously breeding certain bloodlines in order to achieve their ultimate human, who could predict the future and according to the Dune Wiki "...would be Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother, Mentat, and Guild Navigator, all in one being."

Which, as hilarious as it is that one person falling in love hosed up their entire plan, still seems kind of like a wet fart of a plan.

You get a guy that can predict the future and will be pretty awesome all around on the emperor's throne, but it's still just one lifetime. What's the plan after that? Leto II had to become a worm to achieve his immortality, to my knowledge the Bene Gesserit had no such plans for that. They do mention that Emperor Shaddam IV seems way younger than he is due to the spice. Even figuring on a longer timeline, you'd get maybe 100 years out of the KH.

It's an underpants gnome level plan, for sure

# ? Mar 8, 2019 20:51

muscles like this!: Jan 17, 2005

YoursTruly posted:

I've only read the first book, but did Paul or Leto II ever fold space?

Folding space isn't a thing that Guild Navigators can do, they still use a machine. It's just that they can use their ability to see the future in such a way that they can lock in a future that makes sure the highliner arrives at the destination.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 21:51

Testikles: Feb 22, 2009

muscles like this! posted:

Folding space isn't a thing that Guild Navigators can do, they still use a machine. It's just that they can use their ability to see the future in such a way that they can lock in a future that makes sure the highliner arrives at the destination.

I think the movie and tv series blurred the lines and made it seem more involved. The movie has the guild navigator shooting beams out of his mouth to navigate.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 21:57

Riot Bimbo: Dec 28, 2006

It's more like they use limited prescience to detect the outcomes of their fold space calculations.

Presumably if folding space would lead to disaster they slightly change the location of the exit fold until they get something workable

# ? Mar 8, 2019 22:07

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

AFewBricksShy posted:

I've been reading Dune again, and I had a question about the Bene Gesserit's plan for the Kwisatz Haderach.

This is tangential to what you're talking about, but I think it's still pretty relevant to Bene Gesserits Original Plan�; Melange has geriactric properties, but as far as I know most of the characters we're introduced to who end up dying of old age don't seem to die at a very high age - certainly no more than how long some humans live nowadays.
So probably part of their plan involved extending the Kwizats Hadarachs lifespan? Also like others have mentioned, they're basically experts at breeding for a certain trait, so I'm sure they'd make use of that too.

YoursTruly posted:

I've only read the first book, but did Paul or Leto II ever fold space?

I wouldn't be surprised if this, since the Dune Wiki is the source of it, is one of the ideas of He Who Must Not Be Named.

kiimo posted:

I'm not sure where no-ships fall into this sort of thing but I don't remember the Guild being part of that.

I think Franks idea of using no-ships, and Leto II breeding Siona, was so that anyone with the prescient ability could not be detected - and thus humanity, part of it if not the whole, would be free of any tyranny of prescience.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 22:09

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

I think getting regular and appropriate dosages of melange would extend your life by 3 or 4 times, which is obviously highly desirable but is still hardly immortality.

I also suppose that the BGs were hoping that once the Kwisatz Haderach could access the male Other Memories, he could then share them, possibly allowing all Reverend Mothers access to them (or at least the ones he himself had).

# ? Mar 8, 2019 23:03

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Nessus posted:

I also suppose that the BGs were hoping that once the Kwisatz Haderach could access the male Other Memories, he could then share them, possibly allowing all Reverend Mothers access to them (or at least the ones he himself had).

I love how the Tleilaxu casually drop a bomb on Mohiam in the second book: "The Kwisatz Haderach? Oh yeah, we made one of those. Long time ago. He went nuts and killed himself, it doesn't work."

# ? Mar 9, 2019 01:58

iamanLLC: May 25, 2007; We're all dead and this is hell...

Scytale in the second book is miles away my favorite representation of the Tleilaxu in the series. It�s the only time their faction is shown to be intelligent and subtle.

# ? Mar 9, 2019 03:53

muscles like this!: Jan 17, 2005

The nice thing about the Kindle version of the series is they use the cool old school art covers.

# ? Mar 9, 2019 04:27

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

iamanLLC posted:

Scytale in the second book is miles away my favorite representation of the Tleilaxu in the series. It�s the only time their faction is shown to be intelligent and subtle.

His depiction in the second book is actually why I always thought that the Bene Thleilax would be part of the final book that never got written.

# ? Mar 9, 2019 10:05

exmachina: Mar 12, 2006; Look Closer

iamanLLC posted:

Scytale in the second book is miles away my favorite representation of the Tleilaxu in the series. It’s the only time their faction is shown to be intelligent and subtle.

To be fair, Taraza and Odrade completely own Waff. Scytale in CH:D is bitter and distrustful, and eventually puts himself in a pretty powerful position.

Edit: Also, Leto makes some pretty significant changes to the BT for his own reasons.

# ? Mar 9, 2019 10:36

phasmid: Jan 16, 2015; Booty Shaker
SILENT MAJORITY

D. Ebdrup posted:

His depiction in the second book is actually why I always thought that the Bene Thleilax would be part of the final book that never got written.

Scytale's null entropy capsule would agree with you.

# ? Mar 9, 2019 18:46

Riot Bimbo: Dec 28, 2006

I still think Frank being a really bad dad is why brian is loving with and ruining dune after the fact. Its revenge for bruce dying neglected and distant from his father.

# ? Mar 10, 2019 22:15

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

basic hitler posted:

I still think Frank being a really bad dad is why brian is loving with and ruining dune after the fact. Its revenge for bruce dying neglected and distant from his father.

I know a lot of people with lovely parents who've gone on to do great things. If this is what he wants to do, he's as brokebrained as his dad.

# ? Mar 10, 2019 22:24

BONGHITZ: Jan 1, 1970

Maybe the dune son just wants a lot of money.

Money is kind of like spice, except it makes you dumber

# ? Mar 10, 2019 22:41

Riot Bimbo: Dec 28, 2006

Brian could be a King licensing dune off to lile competent devs like petroglyph

# ? Mar 10, 2019 23:19

Defiance Industries: Jul 22, 2010; A five-star manufacturer

basic hitler posted:

Brian could be a King licensing dune off to lile competent devs like petroglyph

The scary this is that Brian probably thinks he's doing a good job with it. This often happens with people who gain control of something without really understanding its themes or what is good about it. He's a real Todd Howard.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 06:11

Anne Frank Funk: Nov 4, 2008

Defiance Industries posted:

The scary this is that Brian probably thinks he's doing a good job with it. This often happens with people who gain control of something without really understanding its themes or what is good about it. He's a real Todd Howard.