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Ilor: Feb 2, 2008; That's a crit.

On the topic of inventory, tracking individual bits of gear is a total rear end-pain, especially when you're dealing with a world with a higher standard of technology or where having a particular bit of gear might enable a player to do [thing]. To get around this nitnoid, fiddly equipment tracking issue, here's a custom move I created for one of my AW campaigns (set on a dilapidated space station long cut-off from Earth):

quote:

When you rummage through your oddments to find something useful to your present situation, roll+Sharp. On a 10+ you have just the thing, or near enough that it'll work more or less like you need it to. On a 7-9 you can make it work if you have to, but using it this way will be acting under fire. On a miss, you try to make it work and something goes horribly, horribly wrong in the process.

This approach worked great, and covered everything from "can I get the lighting in this corridor/deck working?" to "do I have a telescope or binoculars or something that will let me keep a watch out for approaching enemy shuttle-craft?" to "gently caress, I need to repair my torn vac-suit in a hurry!"

# ? Feb 21, 2019 17:16

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# ? May 14, 2024 10:08

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

CitizenKeen posted:

Oh man, that requires a whole introduction to the game / line, bordering on F&F, huh? Okay, I'll get on it.

Don't go to extremes, the F&F was very thorough. Here:

Spire is an ancient artifact of unknown purpose or provenance.
Spire is a drow city, two miles tall.
Spire was conquered by the high elves two centuries ago.
Spire will be freed by the Ministry of the Forbidden Goddess.
That's you.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 17:31

CitizenKeen: Nov 13, 2003; easygoing pedant

As a GM, I feel like I'm always struggling with the balance between "my character concept means I would have *this* gear on me" and "my character concept is 'I have a gently caress-ton of gear on me and am always prepared for everything'".

# ? Feb 21, 2019 17:54

CitizenKeen: Nov 13, 2003; easygoing pedant

mllaneza posted:

Don't go to extremes, the F&F was very thorough. Here:

Spire is an ancient artifact of unknown purpose or provenance.
Spire is a drow city, two miles tall.
Spire was conquered by the high elves two centuries ago.
Spire will be freed by the Ministry of the Forbidden Goddess.
That's you.

Phew. I might just post a link to the F&F, as it was thorough. Just state the existence of some Spire-adjacent stuff like Ascendancy, Resistance Toolbox, and move on.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 18:16

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

Ilor posted:

On the topic of inventory, tracking individual bits of gear is a total rear end-pain, especially when you're dealing with a world with a higher standard of technology or where having a particular bit of gear might enable a player to do [thing]. To get around this nitnoid, fiddly equipment tracking issue, here's a custom move I created for one of my AW campaigns (set on a dilapidated space station long cut-off from Earth):

This approach worked great, and covered everything from "can I get the lighting in this corridor/deck working?" to "do I have a telescope or binoculars or something that will let me keep a watch out for approaching enemy shuttle-craft?" to "gently caress, I need to repair my torn vac-suit in a hurry!"

IMO that�s better than the way Blades in the Dark did it, which is to just hold X and spend when you want to use an existing item. Though, this prevents you from doing something like �I hold onto this magic stone for safekeeping�. Maybe we should discern between macguffins/weapons and gear? A move for �random crap to accomplish a goal�, and handle noteworthy/key items with...something else.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 18:21

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

I think that in a game as narrative as PbtA, scrounging tools and incidental parts to get a job done is just part of the fiction as you play and roll, with Ilor's Move being the most you should have to do when you're not talking about something luxe or hi-tech.

Some bean-counting is appropriate in AW because scarcity is a major theme. But gear should really be a matter of "do you have it or not" unless it's character-defining stuff like the Driver's car, the Angel's kit, the Battlebabe and Gunlugger's weapons. Another reason I'm in favour of the situational Harm rules from the Fallen Empires preview.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 18:51

megane: Jun 20, 2008

Halloween Jack posted:

This isn't relevant to DW, but I've considered an alternate armor system where the rating of armor decreases by 1 every time it prevents Harm, and is assumed to be repaired when the fiction says you'd have the time and means to do so. Thoughts?

My only reason for doing this is to lessen the value of heavy armor in games with more retro inspirations. Snake and Trash didn't wear Kevlar.

If your genre doesn't have dudes in heavy armor, just don't have armor as a mechanic. It's in AW because post-apoc guys walk around wearing a bunch car parts, but that doesn't mean it needs to be in other games.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 19:32

Ilor: Feb 2, 2008; That's a crit.

Pollyanna posted:

IMO that�s better than the way Blades in the Dark did it, which is to just hold X and spend when you want to use an existing item. Though, this prevents you from doing something like �I hold onto this magic stone for safekeeping�. Maybe we should discern between macguffins/weapons and gear? A move for �random crap to accomplish a goal�, and handle noteworthy/key items with...something else.

Sure, you can make a distinction between [plot item] and [generic gear], no worries. The question is simply one of "how important is [thing] as a discrete item in and of itself, and how will it uniquely interact with or influence the narrative?" If the answer is "it won't," then treat it as oddments and don't track it individually. Call it an interesting piece of apocalyptica perhaps, but assume it will get used/traded/consumed off-screen. Only keep track of it if it's uniquely important to the narrative.

Also, I don't know if it came across clearly in the custom move I posted above, but the term "oddments" is important there, because many of the playbooks in AW include things like "oddments worth three barter." The implication is that if you have no barter, you might have no oddments through which to rummage. This requirement to have barter-worthy junk on-hand to trigger the move makes the decisions around gigs and paying lifestyle up-keep super important - like, "Yeah, you had a couple of crusty old 9-volt batteries and a spool of dodgy wire that probably would have done the trick, but you traded it to 8-Ball last week to ensure your doss had breathable atmo this month. Bummer." Losing or having to spend your last barter was always a dodgy proposition as a result, which occasionally made for interesting dilemmas.

# ? Feb 21, 2019 22:06

Golden Bee: Dec 24, 2009; I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.

Generally, if someone needs to have something unlikely, just give them a lovely version of it. Especially if the item is required to solve a problem, there is little to be gained in not letting the player have it or figure out how to get it.

I think a little skepticism is a great tool for GM�s. �Would your character really know x or have Y or prepare for Q?� Can get players to go and completely new directions or fight for interesting new details.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 01:56

lessavini: Jun 22, 2017

@Flavirius, where's the usual MC pack (basic moves, MC moves, playbooks, etc) for Generation Ship and Worldfall? I can't seem to find it.

# ? Feb 22, 2019 17:15

Flavivirus: Dec 14, 2011; The next stage of evolution.

lessavini posted:

@Flavirius, where's the usual MC pack (basic moves, MC moves, playbooks, etc) for Generation Ship and Worldfall? I can't seem to find it.

Oh, they should have come with the PDF wherever you bought it from. Give me a sec and I�ll put them up on the UFO Press downloads page.

# ? Feb 23, 2019 07:58

lessavini: Jun 22, 2017

Thanks, FLavivirus!

I'm pitching a Generation Ship game to my folks. If all goes well, we could continue on to Planetfall and then Legacy.

Some questions that came up during a read:

1) Shouldn't the Scrounger have more significant explorer capacities? By the fluff/drives he seems the more indicated to this role. More specifically, I thought I would see a move interfacing with Into the Dark as to arrive at ship destinations safer and faster, but nope. The A Man's Trash.. move seems the one helping out with exporing but only indirectly. Maybe the author opted for this because otherwise it would make ship exploring too easy?

2) On The Digital Ghost playbook, there's the option to interact physically with things around. How people usually justify it in fiction? Some nanotech or microbot swarms function as his "touch" or something? Also, how do you justify the move Mind Body Connection that let's you control living beings when you pass through them? Maybe the humans onboard are gene-upgraded to interface with machines by default, which would allow for such a control by the Ghost? Or I'm stretching things here?

Thanks in advance!

# ? Feb 23, 2019 15:34

Flavivirus: Dec 14, 2011; The next stage of evolution.

lessavini posted:

Thanks, FLavivirus!

I'm pitching a Generation Ship game to my folks. If all goes well, we could continue on to Planetfall and then Legacy.

Some questions that came up during a read:

1) Shouldn't the Scrounger have more significant explorer capacities? By the fluff/drives he seems the more indicated to this role. More specifically, I thought I would see a move interfacing with Into the Dark as to arrive at ship destinations safer and faster, but nope. The A Man's Trash.. move seems the one helping out with exporing but only indirectly. Maybe the author opted for this because otherwise it would make ship exploring too easy?

2) On The Digital Ghost playbook, there's the option to interact physically with things around. How people usually justify it in fiction? Some nanotech or microbot swarms function as his "touch" or something? Also, how do you justify the move Mind Body Connection that let's you control living beings when you pass through them? Maybe the humans onboard are gene-upgraded to interface with machines by default, which would allow for such a control by the Ghost? Or I'm stretching things here?

Thanks in advance!

Hey!
1) I can certainly see that argument. I think Aaron wanted expeditions into the dark to be a risk no matter who you were. They do have above-average Steel, at least. If you wanted, I could see them getting a move where �if you roll a 10+ on Into the Dark, gain an extra hold no matter what you pick�.
2) I�ve seen nanomachines, yeah, but I find that�s the sort of thing that�s fun for groups to find an explanation for in the moment. Maybe the characters don�t know what allows a ghost to control people, and that can be another mystery to uncover?

# ? Feb 23, 2019 17:55

lessavini: Jun 22, 2017

Flavivirus posted:

Hey!
1) I can certainly see that argument. I think Aaron wanted expeditions into the dark to be a risk no matter who you were. They do have above-average Steel, at least. If you wanted, I could see them getting a move where �if you roll a 10+ on Into the Dark, gain an extra hold no matter what you pick�.
2) I�ve seen nanomachines, yeah, but I find that�s the sort of thing that�s fun for groups to find an explanation for in the moment. Maybe the characters don�t know what allows a ghost to control people, and that can be another mystery to uncover?

I like that move suggestion for the Scrounge, as it's subtle enough to not break the Into the Dark one. Any name suggestion that feels fitting for the game theme?

About the digital ghost, yeah leaving it to the group is a good idea, just like the Maesltrom in AW.

# ? Feb 23, 2019 21:06

Flavivirus: Dec 14, 2011; The next stage of evolution.

lessavini posted:

I like that move suggestion for the Scrounge, as it's subtle enough to not break the Into the Dark one. Any name suggestion that feels fitting for the game theme?

About the digital ghost, yeah leaving it to the group is a good idea, just like the Maesltrom in AW.

Off the top of my head, something like �Tunnel Rat�? Or �At Home in the Dark�?

# ? Feb 23, 2019 22:18

lessavini: Jun 22, 2017

Tunnel Rat it is! Thanks!

# ? Feb 23, 2019 23:07

thefakenews: Oct 20, 2012

Does anyone have tips for writing commentary on moves for PbtA games? Or any observations about what has and hasn't helped them in move commentary.

I haven't managed to do any real serious work on Malleus in a long time, because most of the rules are in there already and most of the work left is commentary and explanation of the basic moves and GM moves etc. Whenever I sit down to write any of that, I really struggle.

# ? Feb 24, 2019 03:42

Golden Bee: Dec 24, 2009; I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.

Buy Spirit of 77, they explain absolutely everything with hilarious examples.

Can someone explain why helping/hindering need to be rolled after? It�s counterintuitive...But otherwise you get the effect where someone rolls 10+ to help you succeed and you still fail...Or tries to hinder you after there�s no way they could�ve succeeded.

I know why I just can�t articulate it well.

# ? Feb 24, 2019 17:50

megane: Jun 20, 2008

Help/Hinder is not my favorite move, no. It sorta feels like they wanted Hx to be a thing so interpersonal relationships would matter, so they just threw a mechanic in to justify it.

See also how getting to know someone really well causes you to loop around and not know them as well anymore, mechanically speaking.

Personally I'd replace it with something more like Strings from MH, where you collect tokens on people and can spend them to help/hinder.

# ? Feb 24, 2019 18:00

Glazius: Jul 22, 2007; Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.; Clapping Larry

Golden Bee posted:

Buy Spirit of 77, they explain absolutely everything with hilarious examples.

Can someone explain why helping/hindering need to be rolled after? It’s counterintuitive...But otherwise you get the effect where someone rolls 10+ to help you succeed and you still fail...Or tries to hinder you after there’s no way they could’ve succeeded.

I know why I just can’t articulate it well.

???

It's actually the opposite? OG help/hinder was always before the roll, but don't be a nit about it since interrupts are tough to adjudicate perfectly fairly?

"I'll take a risk to help this person" and "I'll take a risk to hurt this person" are things you decide before the outcome is certain, and they're notable because you can do them when the spotlight's not on you. The GM can say any number of things before the spotlight gets to you, so if someone's doing something you want to see succeed, like sprinting across the floor of some secret South American bunker to unplug the Hitler mainframe, helping them is how you give that thing the best chance to get done.

# ? Feb 25, 2019 20:36

lessavini: Jun 22, 2017

It just occurred to me that Legacy could be the ideal template for that Planescape hack I was thinking about some time ago. Families = factions playbooks (Sensates, Harmonium, etc), and characters playbooks = occupations or concepts (The Tiefling!, The Automaton! The Avatar!).

One thing I would definitely do, though, is distance it from Dungeon World mechanically, and instead make it more like Legacy or original AW.

lessavini fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Feb 28, 2019

# ? Feb 28, 2019 21:15

lessavini: Jun 22, 2017

Hey @Flavivirus, I'm not grokking how damage works in Legacy/Generation Ship. Is it supposed to be fixed, like:

1 harm: all unarmed and small animals
2 harm: armed melee, most guns
3 harm: really big guns, explosives
4 harm: big acidents, huge explosions, etc

Somting like that?

# ? Mar 1, 2019 02:22

Freudian: Mar 23, 2011

I'm running a one-shot of Uncharted Worlds for some friends - this is the first time I've run a PbtA (or any game honestly) and I'm kind of nervous, what are things I should know going in? What should I have prepared that I completely forgot? Will this go on my permanent record?

# ? Mar 1, 2019 03:17

Flavivirus: Dec 14, 2011; The next stage of evolution.

lessavini posted:

Hey @Flavivirus, I'm not grokking how damage works in Legacy/Generation Ship. Is it supposed to be fixed, like:

1 harm: all unarmed and small animals
2 harm: armed melee, most guns
3 harm: really big guns, explosives
4 harm: big acidents, huge explosions, etc

Somting like that?

Ah, yeah, the same harm table as Legacy 2e is assumed. Looking at it there was space to put that in with Harm Moves, wish we�d done that. So those are:
1-2: Unarmed blows and animal attacks.
2-4: High-quality weapons or monsters.
4-5: Natural disasters and supertech weapons.

# ? Mar 1, 2019 08:21

Merilan: Mar 7, 2019

Hey folks, I'm looking into PbtA games and wondering what recommendations you have for games that have a more light-hearted/less grim setting or genre emulation? My go-tos so far have been things like Fellowship and MASKS. Our preference is definitely those whose mechanics are less punitive/lethal.

# ? Mar 9, 2019 22:51

Mr. Maltose: Feb 16, 2011; The Guffless Girlverine

Action Movie World comes to mind.

# ? Mar 9, 2019 23:07

LongDarkNight: Oct 25, 2010; It's like watching the collapse of Western civilization in fast forward.; Oven Wrangler

Pigsmoke is about wizard university, it's a comedy.

# ? Mar 9, 2019 23:17

Megazver: Jan 13, 2006

World Wide Wrestling or Spirit of 77, perhaps?

Hilarious comedy answer: Bluebeard's Bride.

# ? Mar 9, 2019 23:20

Angrymog: Jan 30, 2012; Really Madcats

I'm recruiting for a Rhapsody of Blood game to be played over Discord on Sunday afternoon, UK time. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3884080

# ? Mar 10, 2019 10:10

lessavini: Jun 22, 2017

lessavini posted:

That's certainly a way to do it, Jack. But I think the factions already suggest enough though their beliefs and activities to allow a single playbook. For example, Anarchists already cater to spies and saboteurs while Doomguard cater to fighters amd assassins, and Bleakers cater to healers, etc.

An important question would be how to implement the "belief shapes reality" motto of Planescape. My first thought is creating moves like "When you do X mark xp"; where X is things central to the factions beliefs. This way players are incentivized to act in specific ways.

Alternately, we could reward player behaviour in line with beliefs with Holds to be spent in special, "reality changing" Moves specific to each faction. So for e.g. each time an Athar ("gods are frauds") kick a saint image in front of believers, he gains 1 hold that allows him to fuel a special move (say, one allowing him to nullify believers/miracles effects when he pleases, or just to spread skepticism among crowds).

So, I'm coming back to this (my Planescape hack). And having met @Flavivirus ' excellent "Legacy: Life among the Ruins 2e" since the last post, I now think it could be a nice framework to build the hack upon. In other words: having players controlling two playbooks, Faction ones analogue to the Families, and character archetypes. So: Anarchist Ratcatchers, Sensate Gate-Seekers, etc.

I'm not sure of the pros & cons of each approach, though. I suspect controlling directly the factions as in Legacy (and keeping it's generational aspect) would make the game less about characters' personal issues and more about the strategical/political game. While basing the hack on other games like Urban Shadows could make it the opposite - more focus on the personal char issues, and less on high level politics. Or maybe I'm mistaken, as I've never played neither Legacy nor Urban Shadows, only read them.

Thoughts?

# ? Mar 11, 2019 03:10

Golden Bee: Dec 24, 2009; I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.

Always play the games before you copy them or you won�t know how the things work. It�s like combining two recipes or something.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 07:49

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

HerraS posted:

Anyone else backed Comrades yet? I started mapping out a campaign where you play italian communists in 1944 bashing the fash because Bella Ciao is such a good loving song.

I've just found out about this and backed it. Gonna hve a read through today, looks pretty good so far though.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 18:14

lessavini: Jun 22, 2017

Golden Bee posted:

Always play the games before you copy them or you won�t know how the things work. It�s like combining two recipes or something.

Yeah that's good advice. It's just that I'm a bit eager to begin creating playbook layouts and basic moves and all. Hehe

# ? Mar 11, 2019 20:26

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

I am sometimes baffled at how even professional, high production value PbtA games just copy their Basic Moves from AW or DW without thinking. This is a particularly bad thing when the Move in question is DW's Defy Danger.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 20:58

Wrestlepig: Feb 25, 2011; my mum says im cool; Toilet Rascal

Halloween Jack posted:

I am sometimes baffled at how even professional, high production value PbtA games just copy their Basic Moves from AW or DW without thinking. This is a particularly bad thing when the Move in question is DW's Defy Danger.

I get nicking Read a Sitch/person and Act under fire but after that you want to be real careful

# ? Mar 11, 2019 21:14

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

I feel like Defy Danger is a golden example of why you should look very carefully at the necessity and implementation of Act Under Fire in a game, frankly.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 23:57

Sailor Viy: Aug 4, 2013; And when I can swim no longer, if I have not reached Aslan's country, or shot over the edge of the world into some vast cataract, I shall sink with my nose to the sunrise.

What exactly is the problem with Defy Danger?

I've been running DW for a while but I don't think I ever really 'got it' (the whole system). At this point I basically run it the same way I'd run D&D so Defy Danger is just the equivalent of 'roll under your ability score'. But I feel like that's not how it's supposed to be used.

I've never read any other PbtA games so maybe I don't have the right perspective to do it properly?

# ? Mar 12, 2019 01:46

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

I've been thinking about running Masks and while it's a pretty broad subject, I wouldn't mind hearing anybody's tips on how to make it work. One I already know is encouraging people to pick the playbook for the story, not the powers, which helped me as a player but what's some stuff to keep in mind behind the screen?

# ? Mar 12, 2019 01:58

Ilor: Feb 2, 2008; That's a crit.

Sailor Viy posted:

What exactly is the problem with Defy Danger?

Because of the way to move is actually worded, if the DM is not good about putting the fiction first, the players tend to want to always roll Defy Danger with their best stat. An Ogre swinging a tree-trunk at you and you don't want to get hit? "I...uh...I quickly calculate the arc trajectory of the tree trunk and position myself just outside it. Yeah, my INT is so high I can do math just that fast." Or more egregious, "Yeah, I just stand there and let him hit me. I'll just, like, soak the hit. My CON is totally high enough to Defy this measly Danger."

Also, I cannot recommend highly enough that you give Apocalypse World a look. Running PbtA games is paradigmatically different than most traditional RPGs, and will really help you to "get it."

# ? Mar 12, 2019 02:12

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# ? May 14, 2024 10:08

megane: Jun 20, 2008

Sailor Viy posted:

I've been running DW for a while but I don't think I ever really 'got it' (the whole system). At this point I basically run it the same way I'd run D&D so Defy Danger is just the equivalent of 'roll under your ability score'. But I feel like that's not how it's supposed to be used.

This is pretty much exactly the problem with Defy Danger. As written, it's basically "When you do basically anything, roll whatever stat you can convince the GM might apply." This is exacerbated by DW's use of D&D stats, which overlap a lot and are subject to a lot of interpretation, the mental ones especially. Pop quiz: come up with a situation where I can roll Wis to defy, but can't justify rolling Int. Hell, think of a situation where exactly one stat obviously works and none of the others do. PbtA moves work best when they're sharply defined: it should be clear whether the move applies or not, and what will happen if so.

At least Act Under Fire is tied to one stat and does something somewhat more specific: if you're trying to accomplish a thing, but you might get hosed by X while trying, roll Cool to not get hosed by X. It's still not the best move since it's still pretty vague and widely applicable, but it's better.

e: f;b

# ? Mar 12, 2019 02:30

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