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Azhais posted:Each frame individually. The pilot equipment rarity you gain from the licence level can be spent on any manufacturers gear however. It should be noted that advanced pilot gear has been parted out of the 1.8.5 document to go into its own separate supplement in order to keep the core book a bit more streamlined and low-overhead for newer players (it's not removed, just moved), but to the question at hand this is the correct answer. You buy individual licenses and then build a mech out of all the stuff those licenses give you. So you have to take Blackbeard I, Blackbeard II, and Blackbeard III to have the complete Blackbeard kit, but if you then want some Vlad stuff you have to start at Vlad I and work your way towards whatever you want. Or you can take Blackbeard I, Vlad 1, skip around to something from HA, go back to the Blackbeard later, etc. Note that you need a level II license in a frame to get the actual frame part of it, but particularly in 1.8.5 the Everest is much less a disposable starter and more a thing you could actually build a longterm plan around, so it's entirely possible to simply take a bunch of level I licenses and make The Ultimate Everest now.
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Mar 2, 2019 09:53
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Makes sense. The constant TECHNO_BABEL_V.123 is a bit grating but I like the core system, which makes sense as I'm a big SotDL fan. This game seems less lethal to PCs than that one, though. Anyone have a suggested range conversion? I know they heavily recommend it in the book but I really don't like using gridmaps in game sessions as it slows everything to a crawl. I was thinking 0 Melee/CQB, 1-5 Short, 6-10 Medium, 11-15 Long, >15 Extreme.
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Mar 2, 2019 10:32
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It seems like Harrison shells got a size reduction and armor buff across the board since I last played but I'm still not sure any of them are good. Just... less poo poo.
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Mar 2, 2019 11:21
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Nanomashoes posted:It seems like Harrison shells got a size reduction and armor buff across the board since I last played but I'm still not sure any of them are good. Just... less poo poo. They're actually quite good in general. The Sherman's received an overhaul and its Solidcore is now a much more useful integrated weapon and it has good all around stats for what it wants to do (fire heat-building and/or loading weapons and stabilizing), the Barbarossa and Genghis now have three mounts each which means you can take a superheavy weapon as well as something else and the Apocalypse Rail is no longer a weird bonus mount but simply The Biggest Gun, the Tokugawa's been decent for a while now...I'd really, really hesitate to say that any of the frames in the game are currently in a lovely state. The one Harrison frame that got a bit of a downgrade between 1.8 and 1.8.5 is the Iskander which lost its innate Tech Attack bonus, which I plan on suggesting it get back since I think it works nicely as a platform for an HA off-hacker In terms of size reduction I think that happened a few editions back, the Barbarossa is no longer size 4 but it's still the largest mech, it's just "the largest" is now size 3 for ease of use at the table (size 4 was too awkward for a lot of GMs and players, so it goes).
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Mar 2, 2019 11:33
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Springfield Fatts posted:Makes sense. The constant TECHNO_BABEL_V.123 is a bit grating but I like the core system, which makes sense as I'm a big SotDL fan. This game seems less lethal to PCs than that one, though. It's not particularly lethal to PCs, you can throw down really overtuned high tension fights and blow up half their mechs, but nobody cares because the PCs can just punch out and reprint the mech after the fight. Those ranges sound about right.
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Mar 3, 2019 01:01
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Also in terms of combat lethality (or "lethality" if we're talking strictly about mechs and not the PCs themselves) the game is set up around a similar sort of encounter pacing to D&D 4E where a mission is expected to be in the ballpark of four or so combat encounters between full rest/repairs. A group of freshly topped off players won't really be too imperiled by the first fight they get into, but as missions drag on they'll start running out of limited resources and the means to patch themselves back up, which means that fights are less about a constant sense of "am I about to die?" and more about "can I get through this without compromising my ability to get through the next one?"
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Mar 3, 2019 01:05
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Kai Tave posted:I like to think both versions of the Sherman exist and they're just production variations. Also committing the extra sin of both double-posting and quoting myself but this is actually 100% canon now if you check out the fluff for the Sherman in 1.8.5, and Tom has said he's gonna try and find room in the finished book for both pictures.
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Mar 3, 2019 06:28
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Kai Tave posted:Also committing the extra sin of both double-posting and quoting myself but this is actually 100% canon now if you check out the fluff for the Sherman in 1.8.5, and Tom has said he's gonna try and find room in the finished book for both pictures. You know the Armory just threw up their hands and said "sure, whatever" to a rich client who was absolutely certain that he wanted his mechs to have trenchcoats, it will look so great.
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Mar 3, 2019 06:31
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wiegieman posted:You know the Armory just threw up their hands and said "sure, whatever" to a rich client who was absolutely certain that he wanted his mechs to have trenchcoats, it will look so great. Really it's SSC that goes all in on mech fashion. The book actually makes clearer some ties between SSC and the Baronies and it mentions that the Baronies love SSC mechs in parade livery, giving the Black Witch as an example.
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Mar 3, 2019 06:35
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Oh hell yes they added a decent amount of new NPC classes, as well as tactics advice and labels like controller/striker/tank. I have been swapping modules between npc types a bunch since I just like building mechs, but this means a bunch of new parts to use. Grunts don't seem to do reduced damage anymore, which means groups of them could potentially be hilariously dangerous. Gonna make my next fight 20 grunt bombards.
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Mar 3, 2019 17:26
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Kai Tave posted:They're actually quite good in general. The Sherman's received an overhaul and its Solidcore is now a much more useful integrated weapon and it has good all around stats for what it wants to do (fire heat-building and/or loading weapons and stabilizing), the Barbarossa and Genghis now have three mounts each which means you can take a superheavy weapon as well as something else and the Apocalypse Rail is no longer a weird bonus mount but simply The Biggest Gun, the Tokugawa's been decent for a while now...I'd really, really hesitate to say that any of the frames in the game are currently in a lovely state. The one Harrison frame that got a bit of a downgrade between 1.8 and 1.8.5 is the Iskander which lost its innate Tech Attack bonus, which I plan on suggesting it get back since I think it works nicely as a platform for an HA off-hacker If youre using hexes and miniatures size 3 is already a ludicrously large robot that looks like a titan from the perspective of normal size 1s. Size 4 may as well have be a gozilla. Infantry squads being size 4 also just seemed too big to me, its more manageable in squares but if youre fighting in places with lots of terrain its hard to maneuver blocks that big.
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Mar 3, 2019 17:37
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Sharkopath posted:If youre using hexes and miniatures size 3 is already a ludicrously large robot that looks like a titan from the perspective of normal size 1s. Size 4 may as well have be a gozilla. Infantry squads being size 4 also just seemed too big to me, its more manageable in squares but if youre fighting in places with lots of terrain its hard to maneuver blocks that big. I don't know if you ever frequent the discord (sorry, it's hard to keep track of everyone these days) but if you have actual play experience with this maybe sling it into the feedback channel. I know you aren't alone in thinking that squads covering a size 4 area is a bit much.
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Mar 4, 2019 01:00
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Is there any chance of someone talking with one of those Thingiverse modelers, into getting some miniatures made?
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Mar 6, 2019 02:26
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According to Tom on the discord, he and Miguel plan to launch the Lancer kickstarter on April 8th. This will be for pdf and PoD hardcopies through DTRPG. The state of stretch goal plans is currently unclear but will probably not be anything ridiculously ambitious like canvas tote bags or a million alternate hacks for things.
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Mar 6, 2019 04:14
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I guess I missed it but what does the starter mech look like?
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Mar 6, 2019 05:30
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clockworkjoe posted:I guess I missed it but what does the starter mech look like? In terms of stats or appearance? If it's the latter, Tom's elected not to illustrate the Everest. He wants groups to decide what their own "galactic standard" mech looks like for themselves. He may wind up illustrating a selection of GMS weapons and equipment for that section, though.
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Mar 6, 2019 05:48
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All mechs can look however you want them to. The illustrations in the book are just how certain pilots choose to customize and build their machines.
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Mar 6, 2019 05:50
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That's also true. This is particularly relevant for Horus mechs which aren't even classified by standard models the way other corps have but as "pattern-groups" which is a shorthand way of saying that while Horus mechs may have common functions, they absolutely do not follow common forms, and as such they're categorized based on what they do regardless of what they look like. The KOBOLD, a p-g that Horus elements have been supplying to the Ungrateful rebellions, exists entirely as code that you upload into a mining and smelting mech which then extrudes a polymer cocoon around itself and, if the code compiles correctly, emerges as a combat-ready frame. If it doesn't compile correctly then you may cook to death.
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Mar 6, 2019 05:53
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Sundry GMS gear is drawn all over the place on misc mechs. Like the Barbarossa has the missile pods, the Minotaur has the assault rifle, etc. The Everest pretty much looks like whatever, you can customize things all you want when you print em
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Mar 6, 2019 05:55
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Kai Tave posted:Note that you need a level II license in a frame to get the actual frame part of it, but particularly in 1.8.5 the Everest is much less a disposable starter and more a thing you could actually build a longterm plan around, so it's entirely possible to simply take a bunch of level I licenses and make The Ultimate Everest now. This essentially made the GMS Everest the space Kalashnikov - it's rugged and can be made to work with just about anything.
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Mar 9, 2019 19:07
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Honestly, one of the KS stretch goals should just be "we'll draw a half dozen takes on what the Everest could look like, and slap those in the book."
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Mar 9, 2019 19:15
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Lemon-Lime posted:Honestly, one of the KS stretch goals should just be "we'll draw a half dozen takes on what the Everest could look like, and slap those in the book." I'd love to see a stretch goal for "we find people and pay them to do more alternate art for mechs", or a stretch goal for an artbook.
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Mar 9, 2019 21:49
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Yeah, I understand that mechs can be customized, but I wanted some kind of reference point for the Everest.
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Mar 9, 2019 23:22
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"At the $25 pledge level, you can submit your own design for the Everest! A random selection will be placed in the book as canonical examples."
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Mar 10, 2019 01:03
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Atlatl posted:It's not particularly lethal to PCs, you can throw down really overtuned high tension fights and blow up half their mechs, but nobody cares because the PCs can just punch out and reprint the mech after the fight. I've been sort of half-considering learning and running the game (I like SotDL, and I like K6BD) but the "losing a mech is a trivial setback" part of the fluff always bothered me even though, from a gameplay standpoint, it seems quite sensible. It also makes it seem like it might be a little tricky to adapt the game to other settings, although Lancer does have the advantage of having a fantastic default setting by the sound of it.
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Mar 10, 2019 01:32
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I mean, it doesn't have to be trivial. The easiest way to up the stakes is to put the players in a place where they don't have access to a printer to just make another mech, in which case it plays a little more traditionally and having to punch out is still real bad. The pilots still have plenty of opportunity to punch out though, unless we're talking about Team Manticore running around Castigating Enemies of the Godhead 24/7 but at that point the players have already established their blood pact.
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Mar 10, 2019 01:41
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I've been sort of half-considering learning and running the game (I like SotDL, and I like K6BD) but the "losing a mech is a trivial setback" part of the fluff always bothered me even though, from a gameplay standpoint, it seems quite sensible. On the one hand I can see how that part of the fiction might not grab everybody, but for me personally I actually found it kind of refreshing to have a mech game where mechs are explicitly not treasured relics of a bygone age or special one-of-a-kind prototypes that you have to carefully tend to but, like, something you can just smash the poo poo out of and push to the absolute limit and then, as long as you have access to a printer, just make a new one. There's a certain liberation to it.
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Mar 10, 2019 01:57
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Kai Tave posted:On the one hand I can see how that part of the fiction might not grab everybody, but for me personally I actually found it kind of refreshing to have a mech game where mechs are explicitly not treasured relics of a bygone age or special one-of-a-kind prototypes that you have to carefully tend to but, like, something you can just smash the poo poo out of and push to the absolute limit and then, as long as you have access to a printer, just make a new one. There's a certain liberation to it. I've been in too many campaigns where I didn't gel with whatever weapon I originally got a magic version of, so just being able to mulligan it with a shotgun that shoots nanobots is a really cool thing.
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Mar 10, 2019 02:21
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I've been sort of half-considering learning and running the game (I like SotDL, and I like K6BD) but the "losing a mech is a trivial setback" part of the fluff always bothered me even though, from a gameplay standpoint, it seems quite sensible. Like others have mentioned the guidebook explicitly states that you can, if you'd like, heavily restrict players' ability to print new mechs, and force them to try to repair or piecemeal replace destroyed frames, simply by putting them somewhere that doesn't have access to a mech-scale printer. Lore-wise, I'd imagine that most non-Cosmopolitan humanity (so, most of humanity) doesn't have access to printers, much less military-grade big boys. That said, I've always really loved that this game is so fast and loose with its mechs, mechanically. In something like DnD if I focus on broadswords and platemail for my first couple levels I'm pretty much locked in unless I swap in a new character or something. In LANCER, I'm supposed to experiment with frames and loadouts on a mission-to-mission basis. At worst, I "lose" three license levels down a license that I end up not liking (but there's probably something in there that's decent, and/or it's reasonable to allow license respeccing). One game you're the sniper, one game you're the melee tank - or - maybe you all you want to do is drop heals all day every day, so you tweak and refine your ideal build down a dozen different licensing and outfitting paths. I've played a few online one-shots and my regular gaming group is gearing up to run a serious campaign sometime after the kickstarter is done. I like the idea (provided they don't bounce off the game) of running a campaign pretty much stock (reprinting, quick swaps, frequent downtime) then running another, shorter, game ironman-style, when everyone is familiar with the rules and building a mech. Limited reprinting, clone complications, multi-engagement missions, all that fun stuff.
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Mar 10, 2019 08:58
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:Lore-wise, I'd imagine that most non-Cosmopolitan humanity (so, most of humanity) doesn't have access to printers, much less military-grade big boys. Lore-wise, most of humanity has printers since you can't set a colony up without a printer and omninet access. That doesn't mean it's capable of rapidly churning out military hardware, or that the omninet connection (which you also need to print) is reliable.
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Mar 10, 2019 10:55
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Lemon-Lime posted:Lore-wise, most of humanity has printers since you can't set a colony up without a printer and omninet access. The colony has a printer. That doesn't mean whoever's in charge of it is letting you use it.
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Mar 10, 2019 11:24
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The Lone Badger posted:The colony has a printer. That doesn't mean whoever's in charge of it is letting you use it. "Whoever's in charge of it" is the colony administration, which should be letting colonists (and Union-affiliated lancers, though this is obviously going to be different if you're playing mercenaries or whatever) use the printer. Given what we know about Union's priorities, I'm 99% sure that preventing people from accessing printers or deliberately restricting omninet access are pretty severe crimes. (Which of course doesn't mean the printer is available right now when you need to print a new mech.) Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Mar 10, 2019 |
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Mar 10, 2019 11:59
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Yeah, what I mean is that if you're not on a core world, printing a mech is going to be a taller order than popping 'round the printer's on your way back from the bar. IF you're Union AND the need is critical enough AND whoever is in charge is sympathetic to your cause AND something's not in the queue already &c. &c. &c. Maybe people, in general, have some reliable access to small scale printers for home goods, depending on the local government or colonial administration -- but even that's not guaranteed. Not everyone is living under Union, and in places the Third Committee is in as various degrees of hands-off as they need to be for whatever reason. From the prerelease, pp. 478: quote:You cannot print a printer. Union tightly controls access to printer plans and licenses, and does There's plenty of opportunity for a GM to have pilots be in a place with greatly reduced or no printer access and have things still be 100% aligned with the written lore. Although when actually playing a game I think the unreliably of printer access probably shouldn't, in most cases, effect actual combat-oriented missions (unless that's something you and your players are good with) but -- they can give a really nice narrative bite to combat losses: "Well, you defeated the enemy cavalry, but in the time it has taken to rebuild the three of your mechs that were destroyed the Evil Baron has rallied his forces at Planet X!"
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Mar 10, 2019 16:23
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Lemon-Lime posted:"Whoever's in charge of it" is the colony administration, which should be letting colonists (and Union-affiliated lancers, though this is obviously going to be different if you're playing mercenaries or whatever) use the printer. There's a reason in the official module, "No Room For a Wallflower," one of the designated Downtime Actions is "Navigate Bureaucracy."
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Mar 11, 2019 04:35
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I do sometimes go back and forth a bit on Wallflower being the "introductory" adventure a lot of people are likely to use because I think the "small, isolated settlement" thing gets leaned on overly much in RPG intro adventures, particularly one for Lancer where the default setting assumptions for players don't usually involve scarcity of resources and/or availability for their giant robots, and yet Wallflower does include this stuff. Something I've noticed a lot of GMs and groups playing Lancer seem to independently stumble into is campaigns where repairs and restocks are doled out too sparingly, and much like 4E D&D where GMs try to play stingy with long rests or introduce house rules to "cut down on all this healing surge nonsense," I worry that it might wind up leading to some bad impressions.
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Mar 11, 2019 05:37
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Kai Tave posted:I do sometimes go back and forth a bit on Wallflower being the "introductory" adventure a lot of people are likely to use because I think the "small, isolated settlement" thing gets leaned on overly much in RPG intro adventures, particularly one for Lancer where the default setting assumptions for players don't usually involve scarcity of resources and/or availability for their giant robots, and yet Wallflower does include this stuff. Something I've noticed a lot of GMs and groups playing Lancer seem to independently stumble into is campaigns where repairs and restocks are doled out too sparingly, and much like 4E D&D where GMs try to play stingy with long rests or introduce house rules to "cut down on all this healing surge nonsense," I worry that it might wind up leading to some bad impressions. Wallflower is beautiful in that if all you read is the first few pages where it says "small, isolated settlement," that's absolutely the vibe it gives off, but if you stick with it, especially for the twists, it's a fascinating look at colonization in a ubiquitous 3-D printing future. Module Setting conceits, spoiler tagged for those that want to be completely unspoiled:
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Mar 11, 2019 06:22
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I mean I'll also say that Wallflower Part 2 absolutely goes off the rails in a pretty spectacular way (I mean this as a compliment) so I don't think it's, like, absolutely terrible or anything as far as adventures go, but ever since Keep on the Shadowfell I've been acutely aware of how an introductory adventure can skew peoples' perspectives on a game and perhaps I'm a bit overly cautious as a result.
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Mar 11, 2019 06:50
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a casual boarding action or something would be nice as a combat tutorial.
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Mar 11, 2019 07:39
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thatbastardken posted:a casual boarding action or something would be nice as a combat tutorial. I know Tom's said that one thing he wants to include in the finished book is a bunch of premade Everests for people to pick up and play, and something I'm going to (politely) push for if he has the time and inclination is some more detail in the GM's section with regard to mission and battlemap structure. There are already some sample mission types which got added in 1.8 but something like an example of what putting it all together looks like as a tutorial adventure would be a good fit as well. It depends on how much more actual added writing he and Miguel want to do between when the KS goes live and when the book is publication-ready.
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Mar 11, 2019 07:45
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40 Proof Listerine posted:the printer and the omninode connecting the colony to the rest of the galaxy are absolutely crucial to logistics To be fair, the module is completely upfront with this one - the omninet node is singled out from the very beginning as the single most important part of the colony to defend in case of attack, far above everything else. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Mar 11, 2019 |
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Mar 11, 2019 08:59
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