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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Not true, I also extrapolated from the scene where Carol immediately assumes the Blockbuster security guard is familiar with Star Force, and her slightly astounded reaction when she realizes she's on a planet that hasn't established first contact. Also her reaction to the 90s tech, but, well, that doesn't really count now, does it? Well, that's kinda even worse, because that's even bigger reach than that sassy remark. Also Skrulls wouldn't like to live on planet that doesn't even know something like Kree Star Force exists because....?
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Mar 11, 2019 01:09
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Maybe it's just me but since the Skrulls kept saying "we want to go somewhere the Kree aren't going to find us and shoot us" and then the Kree come to earth and started shooting at them, Earth probably isn't far enough away from the Kree for them to feel safe. Of course if we extrapolate this into the real world it looks really lovely.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:11
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Lt. Lizard posted:Where exactly did you get that there are hundreds better places they could go? If there are so many better places around, why did Skrull need a FTL engine stated to be able to travel to different galaxies to find someplace safe? 1. Planetary systems are very far apart. So far apart that the distance is measured in how long it takes light to travel in a year. 2. They never once change for the purpose of amusement or fashion, and taking pride in one's exceptional survival/warrior skills is perfectly common.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:12
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As Nero Danced posted:Maybe it's just me but since the Skrulls kept saying "we want to go somewhere the Kree aren't going to find us and shoot us" and then the Kree come to earth and started shooting at them, Earth probably isn't far enough away from the Kree for them to feel safe. Carol would just gently caress Kree poo poo if up they try to start anything with Earth though.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:13
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Adlai Stevenson posted:Does it matter to you that it's the Skrulls who really want to bounce? And that the danger is a civilization bent on eradication that, bar one woman, is vastly superior than everything the planet has? Does the scifi framework of the film that distinguishes our planet as insignificant and weak change any of the allegorical angles for you on this matter? I find it more upsetting because it suggests it is right to exile problematic refugees in order to appease an aggressively expansionist force. If the Kree know of earth and now consider it belligerent, why send away your best weapon and a culture with knowledge of how to resist them instead of fortifying and preparing defenses, which they do anyways?
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Mar 11, 2019 01:14
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Carol didn't age because of time dilation, it showed her flying next to a black hole. 20 years on earth was probably only a couple years for her (Interstellar rules) I liked that the jet they stole was a proto-quinjet. 7/10, would watch again on streaming.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:20
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Lt. Lizard posted:Well, that's kinda even worse, because that's even bigger reach than that sassy remark. Also Skrulls wouldn't like to live on planet that doesn't even know something like Kree Star Force exists because....? Because it means that Earth, like in a lot of sci-fi, is isolated from Galactic Civilization. It's basically Tatooine: a remote planet so lovely and insignificant that the Great Imperial Power didn't even bother with it. Imagine being a refugee and ending up in a place that didn't know other countries existed. It's like that.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:21
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Here is Spiderhyphenman's Happy Triumphant Ending Savage.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:21
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Savage. It's an adventure!
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Mar 11, 2019 01:22
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How would they both settle on Earth and find and bring back the other refugees? If Marvel stays on Earth to protect it, the Kree can just hunt down and destroy anyone leaving/entering the area. Staying on Earth would just mean dooming the rest of their species. Relying on her as the sole defence force for an entire planet is doomed to fail in the first place. If they send multiple fleets of aggressors, it only takes one slipping past while she's destroying another to result in the deaths of millions/billions. The Kree could easily destroy Earth if they threw resources at it, even if Marvel was there. As far as the long absence, who knows but it's entirely possible they found a home quickly and she was just fighting the Kree to keep it safe/protect the rest of the galaxy from them.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:29
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Zeron posted:As far as the long absence, who knows but it's entirely possible they found a home quickly and she was just fighting the Kree to keep it safe/protect the rest of the galaxy from them.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:34
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Zeron posted:How would they both settle on Earth and find and bring back the other refugees? If Marvel stays on Earth to protect it, the Kree can just hunt down and destroy anyone leaving/entering the area. Staying on Earth would just mean dooming the rest of their species. Relying on her as the sole defence force for an entire planet is doomed to fail in the first place. If they send multiple fleets of aggressors, it only takes one slipping past while she's destroying another to result in the deaths of millions/billions. The Kree could easily destroy Earth if they threw resources at it, even if Marvel was there. Sheesh, some people really have no faith in superheroes saving the day.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:34
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:1. Planetary systems are very far apart. So far apart that the distance is measured in how long it takes light to travel in a year. 1. Except that in every other MCU movie set in space, space travel is a causal thing where it takes days, at most weeks to hop from planet to planet (and yes, including this one). Unless you have super secret, unique, trans-galactic FTL engine that uses principles and energy from infinity stone itself to work, at which point it will apparently take years to get anywhere? Also lol at escaping from genocidal dictatorship using a vessel that's apparently orders of magnitude slower than any vessel the genocidal dictatorship would use to pursuers them. 2. They were never in situation to use them for purpose of amusement or fashion. Because guerrilla fighters use clothes to better camouflage themselves in their surroundings and that's their main use of clothes on battlefield, it clearly means clothes are never used for the purpose of amusement or fashion and wearing clothes is extremely stressful and painful for human beings....? SpiderHyphenMan posted:Because it means that Earth, like in a lot of sci-fi, is isolated from Galactic Civilization. It's basically Tatooine: a remote planet so lovely and insignificant that the Great Imperial Power didn't even bother with it. Funny you mention Tatooine a planet where there were never any refugees hiding from genocidal intergalactic Great Imperial Power. Nope. None at all.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:37
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I find it more upsetting because it suggests it is right to exile problematic refugees in order to appease an aggressively expansionist force. Because there's a scifi caused disconnect. The Kree know about Earth and can arrive very quickly. They're also willing to carpet bomb without any rules of engagement. There could easily be no real amount of time to engineer and establish planetary defenses that aren't literally Angry Carol. She can crush three bombing ships, but could she fight off a fleet? An army? Even if yes, how many bombs would get past her in the process? So the concrete help that can be offered is given. Would you complain about a WW2 movie where a refugee is shuttled from safe house to safe house to keep them out of the hands of a hunting enemy? And the only townsfolk with a gun is sent to make sure the refugee is safe?
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Mar 11, 2019 01:38
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Adlai Stevenson posted:Would you complain about a WW2 movie where a refugee is shuttled from safe house to safe house to keep them out of the hands of a hunting enemy? And the only townsfolk with a gun is sent to make sure the refugee is safe? No but I would complain about a ww2 movie in which Jews are sent away by a village so the germans leave them alone as a happy ending
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Mar 11, 2019 01:40
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Adlai Stevenson posted:Would you complain about a WW2 movie where a refugee is shuttled from safe house to safe house to keep them out of the hands of a hunting enemy? And the only townsfolk with a gun is sent to make sure the refugee is safe? Is that townsfolk Steve Rogers?
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Mar 11, 2019 01:41
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This thread's dying, Cloud.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:45
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Mel Mudkiper posted:No but I would complain about a ww2 movie in which Jews are sent away by a village so the germans leave them alone as a happy ending Even if the Germans know for a fact that there are Jews in the town, the Germans already tried to bomb the town and have more planes, and the town is doing everything in its power to keep the Jews safe by sending their only gun with the Jews? teagone posted:Is that townsfolk Steve Rogers? Maybe?
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Mar 11, 2019 01:46
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Lt. Lizard posted:1. Except that in every other MCU movie set in space, space travel is a causal thing where it takes days, at most weeks to hop from planet to planet (and yes, including this one). Unless you have super secret, unique, trans-galactic FTL engine that uses principles and energy from infinity stone itself to work, at which point it will apparently take years to get anywhere? Also lol at escaping from genocidal dictatorship using a vessel that's apparently orders of magnitude slower than any vessel the genocidal dictatorship would use to pursuers them. 2. What I meant is that there's never a "MCU comedy moment" where one of them shifts into something, or even stays shifted, for some trivial reason. It is always an action taken as a measure of survival, abandoned as soon as it is no longer necessary.. They're altering their genes and clearly prefer being in their natural state. I would imagine that body dysmorphia is a factor.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:47
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Adlai Stevenson posted:Because there's a scifi caused disconnect. The Kree know about Earth and can arrive very quickly. They're also willing to carpet bomb without any rules of engagement. There could easily be no real amount of time to engineer and establish planetary defenses that aren't literally Angry Carol. She can crush three bombing ships, but could she fight off a fleet? An army? Even if yes, how many bombs would get past her in the process? So the concrete help that can be offered is given. Why would Kree not attack Earth anyway? Why would they believe that part of the Skrulls were not left on Earth in hiding? While we are at it, how do they even know Skrulls did not remain on Earth? One compromised and disgraced Operative is not exactly an ironclad witness. And finally, why would they even care about presence of Skrull when they suffered a humiliating defeat on Earth and being a race of proud warrior heroes, would almost certainly want to heal their wounded pride by turning Earth into an example why you don't resist Kree? And if even theoretical presence of Captain Marvel protected the Earth from above as it apparently did, why would a Skrull enclave on Earth make a difference?
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Mar 11, 2019 01:50
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https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3884012&userid=183592 44 posts in 4 hours. Averaging a post every 5 minutes hammering on about the same thing. Take a break, my friend.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:52
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Bedshaped posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3884012&userid=183592 calling out someone for caring about discussing a movie in the forum for discussing movies seems a pretty superficial criticism
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Mar 11, 2019 01:56
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"caring"
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Mar 11, 2019 01:59
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I just watched this movie with my wife and we loved it!!! i think they did a great job making it and also do a great job of setting up Endgame with the post credit scene. the cat cracked us up something fierce. 
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Mar 11, 2019 01:59
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Bedshaped posted:"caring" Hey I'm not the one trying to extrapolate the laws of physics in a comic book movie in order to reverse engineer a justification for a problematic ending
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Mar 11, 2019 02:01
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Mel Mudkiper posted:problematic Ah, i see
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Mar 11, 2019 02:02
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:Ah, i see It is though? As has been pointed out pretty clearly so far? Care to share your own reading?
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Mar 11, 2019 02:10
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Lt. Lizard posted:Why would Kree not attack Earth anyway? Why would they believe that part of the Skrulls were not left on Earth in hiding? While we are at it, how do they even know Skrulls did not remain on Earth? One compromised and disgraced Operative is not exactly an ironclad witness. And finally, why would they even care about presence of Skrull when they suffered a humiliating defeat on Earth and being a race of proud warrior heroes, would almost certainly want to heal their wounded pride by turning Earth into an example why you don't resist Kree? Because the AI on Hala can tell when someone is compromised and can pick its way through memories and find the truth of the matter. So Jude Law's testimony is sound. And Ronan is especially interested in Carol and presumably makes a point of focusing Kree attention on her, as implied by his final lines. So with her gone and the Skrulls gone the Kree don't have a reason to revisit Earth. BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:Ah, i see Also also as a rather longtime lurker and occasional poster in TFF I can vouch that Mel is arguing in good faith. He doesn't troll like this, at least not there. For whatever my word is worth.
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Mar 11, 2019 02:10
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I enjoyed the film but it didn't have any real wow moments for a blockbuster. The cat was great though. On a rando note, it's funny that ships in Marvel and Star Wars never seem to have point defense systems, but their fighters have rapid fire weapons that are dangerous to the heroes. A defensive barrage would sell the daring attack run much better than flying at a big target that just sits there helplessly.
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Mar 11, 2019 02:16
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Adlai Stevenson posted:Also also as a rather longtime lurker and occasional poster in TFF I can vouch that Mel is arguing in good faith. He doesn't troll like this, at least not there. For whatever my word is worth. I am explicit believer that the text is always a entangled series of assertions and cultural values that can be explored without necessarily asserting a definitive interpretation In other words, there are always readings, but there is never THE reading. Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Mar 11, 2019 |
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Mar 11, 2019 02:23
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drat your ninja edit
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Mar 11, 2019 02:25
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the ninja edit is the same thing I already said though
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Mar 11, 2019 02:27
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I am explicit believer that the text is always a entangled series of assertions and cultural values that can be explored without necessarily asserting a definitive interpretation I think once you link to a video of a migrant boat capsizing to prove a point you're asserting that, between your reading and my reading, yours is objectively correct. Oh, also invoking internment camps to shame someone else. That's definitely something that somebody does when they're simply presenting their personal interpretation. SpiderHyphenMan fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Mar 11, 2019 |
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Mar 11, 2019 02:28
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I think once you link to a video of a migrant boat capsizing to prove a point you're asserting that, between your reading and my reading, yours is objectively correct. a migrant boat capsizing to the superman theme 
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Mar 11, 2019 02:30
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I think once you link to a video of a migrant boat capsizing to prove a point you're asserting that, between your reading and my reading, yours is objectively correct. Not speaking for MM but I reckon that yes, It is true that they believe in their opinion
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Mar 11, 2019 02:30
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Waffles Inc. posted:Not speaking for MM but I reckon that yes, It is true that they believe in their opinion I mean, a film can simultaneously be a condemnation of xenophobia and rampant militarism while also having problematic assertions about refugees. It can even contradict itself and support multiple alternative viewpoints simultaneously. Art is the fluid interaction of text and reader. I cannot assert that any one meaning is the "correct" one, but I can certainly have fun with someone who is explicitly uncomfortable with an unflattering reading.
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Mar 11, 2019 02:34
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I am explicit believer that the text is always a entangled series of assertions and cultural values that can be explored without necessarily asserting a definitive interpretation I think that while a work may have multiple valid readings a work of sufficient clarity will have one particular focused and correct reading. Other readings may still be possible and supported but in that instance there would be a primary conveyed reading. Having said that I don't think that the way I see the ending is the only way to see it. Just that I'm not on board with how you see it. Que sera, whatever, etc.
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Mar 11, 2019 02:35
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I mean, a film can simultaneously be a condemnation of xenophobia and rampant militarism while also having problematic assertions about refugees. It can even contradict itself and support multiple alternative viewpoints simultaneously. Art is the fluid interaction of text and reader. I cannot assert that any one meaning is the "correct" one, but I can certainly have fun with someone who is explicitly uncomfortable with an unflattering reading. My problem is that when the text of the film is cited with regards to the Skrulls having no desire or intention to remain on Earth, you say that it's part of the anti-refugee propaganda instead of accepting it into your reading on good faith. At that point you can read ill intent into anything that goes against your interpretation and the conversation becomes pointless.
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Mar 11, 2019 02:49
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This movie was good and fun and you should go see it, and I’m actually looking forward to Endgame now as something more than just an obligation piece if Carol’s gonna be a big part of it. Also men are stupid, throw them into mountainsides.
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Mar 11, 2019 03:06
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:At that point you can read ill intent into anything that goes against your interpretation and the conversation becomes pointless. Film and literary criticism is about supporting your reading with the text That, and the language you're using here ("ill intent") is applying some sort of agency to the text where this is none; there is only what you read in it The conversation is only "pointless" when instead of rebutting a particular reading also using the text, you just say "nuh uh"
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Mar 11, 2019 03:15
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