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Rhyno posted:You know while we're on this topic, I have a close friend who transitioned and I am constantly terrified that I'm gonna misgender or dead-name them. Does anyone else have experiences like that? Yes, definitely. When I was teaching at a university I had a student who began her transition over the summer. Changed her name to a feminization of her dead name; when I saw her name on the class roster as was calling attendance, I reverted back to her dead name. Several students took the moment to loudly correct me. I didn’t know!
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Mar 10, 2019 19:20
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NowonSA posted:A fun episode, I didn't really think the penny dialogue was out of place, I was more bugged that Kady had a fun "I'm closing all Sam's cases and also maybe have some mysterious other business I'm doing" and then that pretty interesting (to me at least) idea of Kady: Magic Cop got sidelined immediately by the rent being due and what that led to. I feel like that notion got short shrift and I would have liked at least a scene of her out castin' spells and saving peeps, or for her to have that established in a prior episode and then in this episode she gets caught up by all this stuff. I'm okay with the Magicians not devolving into a procedural show.
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Mar 10, 2019 19:53
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Mouse Dresser posted:Yes, definitely. When I was teaching at a university I had a student who began her transition over the summer. Changed her name to a feminization of her dead name; when I saw her name on the class roster as was calling attendance, I reverted back to her dead name. Several students took the moment to loudly correct me. I didn’t know! My friends new name isn't even close to her old one but I still worry I'll gently caress up. To make it worse, my former employer and coworker refused to use her new name which made going to work difficult every day.
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Mar 10, 2019 20:04
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Rhyno posted:You know while we're on this topic, I have a close friend who transitioned and I am constantly terrified that I'm gonna misgender or dead-name them. Does anyone else have experiences like that? I've known a lot of people and been on both sides of this, and I would say that it's probably a good thing that you're putting such a high importance on respecting someone's gender/name. Consider, though, that this person interacts with a lot of people beside you and probably gets misgendered pretty regularly. This sorta cuts both ways. On one hand, we may not be as shocked as you are expecting to hear the wrong pronoun. At the same time, since that kind of casual trauma is such a common, daily occurrence, it also makes that much more important and that much more noticeable when you get people that treat you how you wish you were treated. Put in the effort, and don't make a big deal of it if you make a mistake. Everyone slips up, even transfolk themselves.
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Mar 10, 2019 21:00
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Alhazred posted:I'm okay with the Magicians not devolving into a procedural show. I mean I didn't want a whole episode of Magic Cop Kady, but the notion of still feeling connected to the false identity and magic being used to help people and presumably against normal people are both areas I'd be interested to explore with Kady without her being caught up in the whole plot. In that early kitchen scene it seems like we're going there when she explicitly says "You do your thing I'm not getting mixed up in it" and then right away she's pushed toward being involved in their stuff in a more roundabout way. Give me a bit more to show how she still feels tied to the Sam identity and a quick montage of her using magic to close Sam's cases and I'd be all set.
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Mar 10, 2019 21:46
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Rhyno posted:My friends new name isn't even close to her old one but I still worry I'll gently caress up. Honestly I keep correcting people's names mentally and will make sure that I don't even think of them by their deadname and then eventually that old name ceases to exist for me and I have a number of friends who I don't recall the name they had when I first met them. Mental repetition helps, but like people gently caress up and a lot of folks recognize that. So just apologize when you get it wrong and move on.
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Mar 10, 2019 22:57
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I just caught up. Penny's lectures are clunky and hamhanded, but A, he is himself a cishet dude as far as we know, and B, nobody's as zealous as the newly converted. Also, it's less clunky and hamhanded and generally embarrassing than the "we HAVE to have sex because magic" that the writers keep going back to. Teenage fanfiction writers already know that's a mega dumb cliche
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Mar 11, 2019 04:54
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i like nice words
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My secret is that I don't remember anyone's names regardless and just spend every social interaction figuring out ways that someone can remind me of what I'm supposed to call a given person I've met hundreds of times.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:38
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Anne Whateley posted:Also, it's less clunky and hamhanded and generally embarrassing than the "we HAVE to have sex because magic" that the writers keep going back to. Teenage fanfiction writers already know that's a mega dumb cliche I think the reason they keep going back to that is a huge percentage of nutjobs who practice the occult, magic or wicca are totally into 'sex magic' as a thing. It's like one of the most ultra common forms of supposedly 'real' magic. While the show certainly plays up the angle, I totally get why sex magic keeps popping up in the show over and over as a result, given their use of folklore and legend. Don't even boring rear end wiccans need to gently caress someone to level up? (I guess it nets mad XP)
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Mar 11, 2019 18:47
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Mouse Dresser posted:Yes, definitely. When I was teaching at a university I had a student who began her transition over the summer. Changed her name to a feminization of her dead name; when I saw her name on the class roster as was calling attendance, I reverted back to her dead name. Several students took the moment to loudly correct me. I didn’t know! My biggest problem is my whole life I've used the phases "You guys" and "Man," in a completely gender neutral way. For years I'd say "you guys need to get moving!" even if I'm talking to all women. Now I have to watch myself so I don't come off as offensive which is a little ridiculous but I can see why it's taken the wrong way. Chalks posted:I wonder whether we'll see Zelda working against the library at some point. I'd be up for that. "We call this book the legend of Zelda." XboxPants posted:If anyone is so unfamiliar with words like "cisgender" or "cishet" that it seems this strange and unnatural for someone to use them in a conversation, please consider whether you're having enough discussions with your friends about these topics. They're pretty important to a lot of people, myself included. Rocksicles posted:You know it's a pretty small section of society that uses words like that on the regular right? Ariza posted:You must live in a very tiny bubble.  Alhazred posted:Basically, if you don't like a show using "sjw buzzwords" then the Magicians isn't for you. The problem is old Penny would have absolutely called you an ignorant racist motherfucker straight up, buzzword free, which I can respect. Also a lot of those Margo quotes are also sort of punchlines to jokes, i.e. looking at a messed up fairytale/medieval society hybrid that is backwards as gently caress through the lens of modern ideologies. The humor comes from the extreme ends of the spectrum conflicting. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Mar 11, 2019 |
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Mar 11, 2019 18:59
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Blazing Ownager posted:Also a lot of those Margo quotes are also sort of punchlines to jokes, i.e. looking at a messed up fairytale/medieval society hybrid that is backwards as gently caress through the lens of modern ideologies. The humor comes from the extreme ends of the spectrum conflicting. They're not punchlines and a lot of those attitudes that Margo reacts is attitudes that exists in our modern society too.
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Mar 11, 2019 19:51
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I think the humor thing is a component of why some of the exposition in the last episode landed with a bit of a thud. It was played as kind of glib, but it wasn't actually funny at all, even with the "twist reveal" at the end. It was also played as being incisive and showing Penny's "enlightenment", but it didn't really work in that way either, since as someone upthread pointed out, the main cast is actually pretty diverse. But it's also pointless to make a deal of it, this show is not remotely afraid to date itself or go out on a limb when making a joke or a serious point, and that's to be lauded. They did an election parody episode in 2018, it was somehow still great.
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Mar 11, 2019 20:19
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King of Bleh posted:I think the humor thing is a component of why some of the exposition in the last episode landed with a bit of a thud. It was played as kind of glib, but it wasn't actually funny at all, even with the "twist reveal" at the end. It was also played as being incisive and showing Penny's "enlightenment", but it didn't really work in that way either, since as someone upthread pointed out, the main cast is actually pretty diverse. I think that's what makes it works. It's easy to say that, for example, fantasy has a lot of straight white protagonists, but the Magicians is actually doing something about it.
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Mar 11, 2019 20:28
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Blazing Ownager posted:The problem is old Penny would have absolutely called you an ignorant racist motherfucker straight up, buzzword free, which I can respect. Stop fuckin' calling it a buzzword, you ignorant motherfuckers 
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Mar 11, 2019 21:36
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Whalley posted:Stop fuckin' calling it a buzzword, you ignorant motherfuckers Sorry for bringing the word "buzzword" into this discussion, my definition of it in this context is "a technical term that most people don't understand but has become a lot more popular recently" - I really didn't mean it as a way of diminishing the term. Like, "the cloud" is probably one of the most impactful advances in computer science in the last decade, but I'd still call it a buzzword. Doesn't mean it's not important or very real.
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Mar 11, 2019 21:47
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Whalley posted:It's not a goddamn buzzword. Cis as a term has been used in peer reviewed academic journals since at least 1998 Toxic was a real word before it got turned into a buzzword too. Sorry but that's all it is now. Overuse in dumb contexts. Whalley posted:it is because of a continued effort by chud shitheads to claim it's bullshit, so that they can keep using the term "normal" or "real" to refer to people who aren't trans or nonbinary in order to keep around terms that dehumanize people! Oooooor it's a bunch of poo poo made up by people to feel self important and special. Nobody is using "normal" or "real." People used things like "straight" or "<insert gender here>" before, which worked fine. You didn't need to invent a library book full of terminology to describe things because it's just not that complicated. Whalley posted:This kind of stupid-rear end mindwashing microaggression linguistic trick is explicitly a tool used by propagandists This is the most hilarious string of words I've read on the internet today, thank you Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Mar 11, 2019 |
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Mar 11, 2019 22:51
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Chalks posted:Sorry for bringing the word "buzzword" into this discussion, my definition of it in this context is "a technical term that most people don't understand but has become a lot more popular recently" Yes, that is the definition. But that is literally the opposite of what you were arguing. Chalks posted:Maybe it depends where you're from but I'm pretty sure the only reason I know those words exist is from this forum and I would be pretty surprised if 90% of the people I know in real life have heard of them. I'm honestly not sure how you're expecting most people to be familiar with these sorts of buzzwords. Chalks posted:There's nothing wrong with the Magicians using the term here, but honestly without making any effort to explain it it's just a nod to people who already know the word, which is pretty uncommon in my experience. Your argument was that this word is so obscure and unknowable, that most people in the world have never heard of it, and that you only know it because you are so cultured. And now you're saying that you used the word "buzzword" because you claim that it's really popular. Chalks posted:I really didn't mean it as a way of diminishing the term. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't mean it that way. But you need to understand that it absolutely came across that way, especially given that you continued to double down on your arguments. That's why everybody jumped down your throat. It came across as you saying that this talk of trans people is just a phase, which is something so deeply offensive to trans people. It came across as you saying that this "buzzword" is only here until the next "buzzword." Blazing Ownager posted:People used things like "straight" before, which worked fine. Obviously not, because "straight" refers to sexuality, and not gender. Nihonniboku fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Mar 11, 2019 |
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Mar 11, 2019 22:52
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Chalks posted:I really didn't mean it as a way of diminishing the term. Diminish all you want. People put way way way too much power in words these days for good or ill. People need to relearn the wisdom of sticks and stones. People treat some of this stuff like religion.
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Mar 11, 2019 22:53
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Nihonniboku posted:Obviously not, because "straight" refers to sexuality, and not gender. We also used to have a way to talk gender. It was called 'declare your gender.' I'm fine with people declaring they have no gender if they don't fit into a category or whatever they want, it's entirely cool. But we didn't need to make up all these buzzwords to categorize people into camps. In fact I think that's my biggest problem with most of this stuff, it's finding a way to shove individualism into categorical boxes. Then it gets used in, yes, buzzwordy ways. Honestly this scene was out of place because quite typically the show rolls it's eyes at this stuff too, and instead chooses to present characters that break the mold without constantly going 'Hey look, we're breaking the mold!' and that's why it's great. It feels like the entire point was to preach to the audience about re-evaluating who the heroes were because of their identities, when we'd already done that 3 seasons ago because the character actions speak louder than words. Nihonniboku posted:It came across as you saying that this talk of trans people is just a phase, which is something so deeply offensive to trans people. It came across as you saying that this "buzzword" is only here until the next "buzzword." Just  if anyone doesn't think people will be talking about all the current political buzzwords, from microaggression to cis, as jokes in 30 years. People will say this stuff only in historical films set in the late 2010s the same way people in movies about the 60s say "Far out, man!" or "Groovy." We'll have new words then. We always have new words. And the people using those words will think everyone using these words are ignorant cave people to whatever the current views of like 2059 are.ED: I should say consumable streaming media because I have no doubt cinema will be dead by 2059 Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Mar 11, 2019 |
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Mar 11, 2019 22:58
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Nihonniboku posted:Obviously not, because "straight" refers to sexuality, and not gender. Chalks seems to have not meant harm though so hell yeah let's talk about the magical tutting show more
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Mar 11, 2019 23:20
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Nihonniboku posted:I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't mean it that way. But you need to understand that it absolutely came across that way, especially given that you continued to double down on your arguments. That's why everybody jumped down your throat. Thank you, I appreciate that. I in no way think this and I'd hate for anyone to think that I did. Anyway, sorry for making this derail worse than it was. I knew it was a sensitive topic when I waded in and clearly should have been more careful to give the correct impression.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:31
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Chalks posted:I knew it was a sensitive topic The only way to deal with sensitive topics is to rip the band-aid off and pour that disinfectant straight on in there. The fact you can't even ask a question without a bunch of people getting worked up says something bad about our society.
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Mar 12, 2019 00:07
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Blazing Ownager posted:The only way to deal with sensitive topics is to rip the band-aid off and pour that disinfectant straight on in there. The fact you can't even ask a question without a bunch of people getting worked up says something bad about our society. The bad thing it says is that these people have to live in a society that is so regularly hostile to their existence that they've developed this reflexive hostility in response. It's lovely that this is the reality we live in, but it seems like the least we can do is try to avoid causing unnecessary pain.
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Mar 12, 2019 00:18
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Conversation is over.
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Mar 12, 2019 00:21
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muscles like this! posted:Conversation is over. To assist: am I the only one waiting anxiously for the next musical episode? Both Penny’s can duet. I wonder what song they should sing. I just hope Eliot has a large part... and is shirtless. Also focus on his eyes and keep some stubble. And give him my number. <sigh>
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Mar 12, 2019 00:45
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Von_Doom posted:To assist: am I the only one waiting anxiously for the next musical episode? Both Penny’s can duet.
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Mar 12, 2019 00:46
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Von_Doom posted:To assist: am I the only one waiting anxiously for the next musical episode? Both Penny’s can duet. I wonder what song they should sing. I just hope Eliot has a large part... and is shirtless. Also focus on his eyes and keep some stubble. And give him my number. <sigh> NO, i can handle a lot of stuff, but i can't handle musical episodes. You get one!
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Mar 12, 2019 00:51
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Rocksicles posted:NO, i can handle a lot of stuff, but i can't handle musical episodes. You get one! In the spirit of a better world: how about a compromise? Just one cool musical number or two? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bxYEiZhSlQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0mfBt3mhtc Its surprising how many of the cast have a decent voice... a nice mix that makes even those that aren't so stellar even more charming. Is it weird I want Margo to be my best friend? I love her character.
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Mar 12, 2019 17:14
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Von_Doom posted:
The moment it was revealed that Margo had the common sense to bring a gun to fairyland is the moment I fell in love with her character.
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Mar 12, 2019 17:34
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I need an MP3 of that version of Under Pressure. STAT
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Mar 12, 2019 18:39
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Jesus gently caress I forgot how good Eliot sounds in that
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Mar 12, 2019 19:09
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For sure, Hale Appleman is really talented.
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Mar 12, 2019 19:13
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I still watch the Under Pressure scene like once a week, it's so good. The bit when Kady finally cajoles Penny into joining is A+.
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Mar 12, 2019 20:29
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Alhazred posted:The moment it was revealed that Margo had the common sense to bring a gun to fairyland is the moment I fell in love with her character. Its amusing as she was a total sidekick in the beginning but she really has grown into an fairly complex and rich main character. She is the one person who seems to actually give half a toss about Fillory, despite her snark and outward demeanour. Hell, that could be said of her attitude towards most things. Beard Yawn posted:I still watch the Under Pressure scene like once a week, it's so good. The bit when Kady finally cajoles Penny into joining is A+. I agree with Whalley and Rhyno and am always amazed by Eliot but Fen needs to sing more. She is Disney cartoon princess personified. Kady also has solid pipes that I really want to hear more of. I want to hear her cover this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF7DW_mZatA Penny is not a great vocal talent but I like the small bits he does. Feels very genuine and human. Half the cast is like that and makes the stand out voices shine even more. As an aside since you guys are super cool you should check out Deadly Class if you haven't already. 80s punk rock assassin high school-jinks that a fair bit of fun on the Syfy channel or its affiliates. There's a thread too! DogsInSpace! fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Mar 12, 2019 |
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Mar 12, 2019 22:40
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Von_Doom posted:In the spirit of a better world: how about a compromise? Just one cool musical number or two? I'll allow it, only because Elliot and Bowie are good company.
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Mar 13, 2019 00:57
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Von_Doom posted:I agree with Whalley and Rhyno and am always amazed by Eliot but Fen needs to sing more. She is Disney cartoon princess personified. Fen has easily been the best singer so far.
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Mar 13, 2019 11:04
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Nihonniboku posted:For a show that is constantly dropping obscure pop culture references without taking the effort to stop and explain what they are, and how they relate to the show, people are oddly focused and bothered on this. It's not a good look, and there are some "buzzwords" to describe what they're thinking. Jesus Christ, what’s not a “good look” is drawing a casual parallel between making “obscure pop culture references” and referencing the struggles of minority groups.
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Mar 13, 2019 22:58
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Alhazred posted:The moment it was revealed that Margo had the common sense to bring a gun to fairyland is the moment I fell in love with her character. I totally get why they don't take that to the logical extremes, but I kind of wish she'd steal an arms shipment to one day arm the talking bears with RPGs and AK-47s. Nobody fucks with Fillory. And I would never turn down an episode where the deus ex is a machine gun wielding bear. Von_Doom posted:Its amusing as she was a total sidekick in the beginning but she really has grown into an fairly complex and rich main character. She is the one person who seems to actually give half a toss about Fillory, despite her snark and outward demeanour. Hell, that could be said of her attitude towards most things. If we had to play show survivor, Margo and Elliot are probably the last two I'd lose, with Penny coming in close third. Alice has been such a consistent gently caress-up I think she's the most expendable of the mains at this point. Also I'm surprised nobody has joked about Julia's followers always dying since the beginning? Every single time someone follows her and pledges their life to her they're dead within 2 episodes. Every time. Her recent follower I thought might buck the trend but nope. Has the character ever even commented on this before? If there's some time-travel SAW flashback where it's revealed each follower was setup to take a bullet for her or something, I'd buy it. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Mar 14, 2019 |
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Mar 14, 2019 00:44
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"So it's... dragon pregnancy porn?" "Don't kinkshame"
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Mar 14, 2019 02:35
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I like how they did some real dragon porn. Edit: Also that was a weirdly realistic cat mask, including the tiny, tiny teeth between the fangs. muscles like this! fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Mar 14, 2019 |
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Mar 14, 2019 02:58
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