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mcmagic posted:Impeachment is a political decision and impeachment with zero possibility of conviction isn't a good political path for Dems. Shrugging their shoulders and saying "eh, whatcha gonna do" to various Trump crimes isn't a good political path, either. They have a duty, and they should impeach. Let the Senate acquit him and then hammer Republicans about ignoring the rule of law when it suits them. Let THEM go on record and force their hand.
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Mar 11, 2019 22:57
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Groovelord Neato posted:the opposite. I think you're very wrong. The second he's acquitted in the Senate, he and his Republican enablers will be able to claim a huge victory and dems will look impotent.
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Mar 11, 2019 22:57
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Jaxyon posted:Why isn't Pelosi doing this impeachment she has no ability to pull off? I thought Pelosi was the grand master of controlling her caucus? She can't get impeachment through the house? Or she just doesn't want to?
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Mar 11, 2019 22:57
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1glitch0 posted:I thought Pelosi was the grand master of controlling her caucus? She can't get impeachment through the house? Or she just doesn't want to? Its more about the Senate never being willing to convict
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Mar 11, 2019 22:58
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Nail Rat posted:She can totally impeach him, he just wouldn't be convicted. He wouldn't just not be convicted. He would be vindicated. He'd go into the next election with, effectively, a clean record.
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Mar 11, 2019 22:59
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he would not. clinton's approval rating when impeachment was brought was in the 60s and it was obviously blatantly partisan.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:00
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1glitch0 posted:I thought Pelosi was the grand master of controlling her caucus? She can't get impeachment through the house? Or she just doesn't want to? Or let the Muller report come out Or let the house oversight committee investigation do it's thing. Or wait until there's some sign It can make it through the senate or at least that it's going to be bipartisan in the house so it's not seen as a purely political move that will only strengthen Trump's hand. Or we could not do this thing once a week where a bunch of people give their hot takes on an article that they did not read. Dems in disarray are the hottest stories because both sides click on them. So people turn them out Non-Stop. It doesn't make it true it doesn't make it pertinent. Right now impeachment would be stupid because none of the reports are out so it's off the table. Even if the leadership knows things that we don't, since they can't yet tell us it's still off the table. How is this stuff so hard? We've been looking at the same stories for years now and some of y'all are so quick to jump on the 'Dems are bad' bait about every little thing.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:02
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1glitch0 posted:I thought Pelosi was the grand master of controlling her caucus? She can't get impeachment through the house? Or she just doesn't want to? There might be a case once the Mueller report drops or the numerous House investigations conclude.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:02
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1glitch0 posted:I thought Pelosi was the grand master of controlling her caucus? She can't get impeachment through the house? Or she just doesn't want to? Pelosi heard that thing about how fascists need their enemies to be simultaneously weak and useless AND all powerful and cunning and she assumed that was actual advice
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Mar 11, 2019 23:03
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1glitch0 posted:I thought Pelosi was the grand master of controlling her caucus? She can't get impeachment through the house? Or she just doesn't want to? She was, but recent events have called that into question. She's been losing votes to bullshit gotcha resolutions.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:03
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The Glumslinger posted:Its more about the Senate never being willing to convict Pelosi has no power over conviction in the senate. Who cares? Pelosi had time to shame Omar over a tweet saying American politicians are greedy, she has time to impeach Trump. Unless.. and follow me here, she just doesn't want to.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:03
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bird cooch you did this when her m4a interview came out and when i quoted directly from the article supporting what i said (after you stupidly claimed i hadn't read it) you for some reason ignored that.Crows Turn Off posted:It would be a waste of time. He will never face the appropriate consequence with a Republican Senate. everything they do right now is a waste of time. our government is useless without unitary democratic control now.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:03
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pelosi, as well as most of washtington, knows the mueller report has nada. She's a good politician, and a survivor creating space for her to be the adult in the room. The nice thing most senate/house dems have going for them is no real game in the mueller report or the coming counter investigations besides Waters, Schiff and a few others. As long as they position themselves, they benefit either way it goes.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:05
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ScentOfAnOtaku posted:By not acting like it's a game anymore and actually talking like it's peoples lives and not votes? I have to agree here. Pelosi and Dem Party leadership smiling and playing along like this is just another GOP sideshow that must be endured is a big part of the problem. There shouldn't be any return to civility planned. Impeach this traitorous gently caress. He's the most treasonous President in history (discounting Buchanan) so if Congress doesn't even try to impeach Trump, why the gently caress even pretend impeachment is a thing other than a way to poo poo on Democratic Presidents? This election is going to be about turnout and just doing the minimum while counting down the days to a fabled return to the previous status quo is a good way to spike it. We've tried tactical triangulation. We've tried it for 50 loving years.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:05
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1glitch0 posted:Pelosi has no power over conviction in the senate. Who cares? Pelosi had time to shame Omar over a tweet saying American politicians are greedy, she has time to impeach Trump. Unless.. and follow me here, she just doesn't want to. Pretty much this. Saying it is acceptable for the House to shirk its duties because the senate is doing so is a stupid shrug, and it disrespects the importance of how complicit they are being in this mess.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:06
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Mnoba posted:pelosi, as well as most of washtington, knows the mueller report has nada.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:06
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Groovelord Neato posted:bird cooch you did this when her m4a interview came out and when i quoted directly from the article supporting what i said (after you stupidly claimed i hadn't read it) you for some reason ignored that. I did that because you removed all context of the quotes in order to make it worse so that you could scream and tear at your clothes. There's lots of stuff to be done with a controlled house, like investigations and issuing subpoenas. Getting things entered into the Congressional record. All of these things are important.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:07
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Mnoba posted:pelosi, as well as most of washtington, knows the mueller report has nada. Yeah just a bunch of dudes charged and going to jail.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:07
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https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1105217370623217674
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Mar 11, 2019 23:07
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https://twitter.com/BresPolitico/status/1105207232378126337 Some folks seem to think this is a smart move, I dunno 
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Mar 11, 2019 23:08
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Mnoba posted:pelosi, as well as most of washtington, knows the mueller report has nada. She's a good politician, and a survivor creating space for her to be the adult in the room. How do you speak with such authority on the opinions of 'most of Washington'? Please share the source of your infinite wisdom.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:08
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Crows Turn Off posted:Source? mnoba is an open chud and has spent way too many days trolling this thread without catching a ban
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Mar 11, 2019 23:08
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ignoring collusion, obstruction, etc donald trump will have personally pocketed hundreds of millions of our tax dollars by the time he's gone.bird cooch posted:I did that because you removed all context of the quotes in order to make it worse so that you could scream and tear at your clothes. lol no i didn't. nice loving try.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:08
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It seems to me that Trump would never get removed from office, even if he was super guilty of a lot of crimes and the various investigations turned up solid evidence of that. I'd support impeachment if there was clear enough evidence (as in evidence which is hard to argue against) of crimes/wrongdoing. If you could get a good trial going and have, say, a few R senators flip because the evidence is there then it might be worthwhile. But if it's just partisan or every Democratic senator minus Joe Manchin (or a few others) and the evidence is lukewarm it's possible that impeachment is a bad idea. That being said, I think Pelosi's position is not good. A better position may be that we should wait for the house investigations to turn up what they can and see what Mueller accomplishes before deciding on whether to impeach.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:09
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DaveWoo posted:https://twitter.com/BresPolitico/status/1105207232378126337 So we'll hunt her. Because she can take it.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:11
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mcmagic posted:I think you're very wrong. The second he's acquitted in the Senate, he and his Republican enablers will be able to claim a huge victory and dems will look impotent. Seriously. When the Republicans don't remove Trump from office after impeachment, it will be seen as a huge win and proof that there was no collusion. It doesn't matter what is in the Mueller report at that point. Trump, his base, and Fox News will repeatedly hammer the message that the Democrats were wrong and Trump was totally in the clear this whole time.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:11
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Xombie posted:Catholicism isn't an ethnic group, it's an organization. Catholicism is deeply tied to the identity of a poo poo ton of ethnic groups in the same way Islam and most other religions are. Protestantism is just about the only sect that doesn't manifest like this usually.... and even it does in some cases.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:13
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Astro7x posted:Seriously. When the Republicans don't remove Trump from office after impeachment, it will be seen as a huge win and proof that there was no collusion. It doesn't matter what is in the Mueller report at that point. Trump, his base, and Fox News will repeatedly hammer the message that the Democrats were wrong and Trump was totally in the clear this whole time. yeah they don't do that every time he fails or shits himself in public already.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:13
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Unzip and Attack posted:why the gently caress even pretend impeachment is a thing other than a way to poo poo on Democratic Presidents? Two out of three presidents it was done to or considered for were Republicans but, uh...ok?
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Mar 11, 2019 23:15
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One of the important intangible things impeachment would do is show voters that they actually have a spine and are willing to stand for something and that would energize a lot of people. They won't though of course.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:19
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Imagine having to be sat down by Dick “go gently caress yourself” Cheney and being told “hey you’re really loving up our relations world wide with other countries” 
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Mar 11, 2019 23:19
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah just a bunch of dudes charged and going to jail. It's always possible that the Mueller report turns out to just say that Trump employed a bunch of lovely people who got sent to jail but otherwise turns up nothing conclusive against Trump on the Russia or obstruction after Trump's inauguration. Personally, I'm convinced that he did something bad, but Mueller could turn up nothing exciting. I don't think Pelosi has any insider knowledge of this though. If she did then I feel like we'd have a leak by now.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:19
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VH4Ever posted:Two out of three presidents it was done to or considered for were Republicans but, uh...ok? Yeah I mean nothing has changed since Andrew Johnson and the charges leveled against Bill Clinton, Nixon, and Trump are all pretty much comparable right?
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Mar 11, 2019 23:21
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Vote him out of office. Then convict his rear end when he doesn't have any protections and let him spend the rest of his life in prison. Impeachment would be nice just so it would be in the books that he was impeached. But the slow game has a bigger payoff.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:22
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Mike Pence nods approvingly, assuming Cheney is implying that the US to start jailing the gays.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:22
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Chilichimp posted:There is no god, and everything a religious person does to actively harm society is done out of a hilarious cosmic cruelty. loving lol at leftists who are really into anti-racism and fighting back against stuff like Islamophobia, who also apparently actively resent and hold immense condescension for a good 75% of those people because they're "ewww religious!!" Like I'm picturing you standing up for someone in a hijab, while simultaneously trying not to barf about their ways.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:23
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Eeyo posted:It's always possible that the Mueller report turns out to just say that Trump employed a bunch of lovely people who got sent to jail but otherwise turns up nothing conclusive against Trump on the Russia or obstruction after Trump's inauguration. Personally, I'm convinced that he did something bad, but Mueller could turn up nothing exciting. I don't think Pelosi has any insider knowledge of this though. If she did then I feel like we'd have a leak by now. It's entirely possible there will be no Russia stuff, but even if it doesn't there's zero way it won't have a bunch of white collar poo poo that, at the very 'best' for Trump just HEAVILY IMPLIES he almost certainly knew about what was happening with poo poo like Wikileaks. I think if anything wrt Russia does bust him it's gonna be that, all they need is one big of hard convo to create a link between point A of 'Stone was a trump surrogate who talked with Wikileaks about the emails' that we already know and point B of 'there's no way he just randomly thought this was a good idea and never told his best friend Donnie'.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:25
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Just remember that regardless of anything else, Trump's companies are already hosed.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:26
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Given that 1) Impeachment will have zero actual consequences because he won't be convicted and 2) While no one can say for sure, there's a very real possibility a failed impeachment will bolster Trump's odds at being re-elected The argument for it amounts to "I want Dems to spend their effort on symbolic stands that may well get in the way of actually changing things" Groovelord Neato posted:everything they do right now is a waste of time. our government is useless without unitary democratic control now. That's not true at all. Actions they take now can improve or decrease their odds of winning big in 2020.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:28
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VideoGameVet posted:She did it in 2013. And she does it again: "...unless there’s something so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan,..." This is the door that needs to be opened for impeachment to happen. The key to that door is the Mueller report, et al. (we hope). Remember that the Republicans hosed up by prematurely impeaching Clinton. If they were at all smart, we could accuse them of setting a trap then for the situation we're in now. [Narrator: "They're not, of course, and never were.]
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Mar 11, 2019 23:28
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