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You must build every weapon and grind them up to 30. Think of the mastery!
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Mar 12, 2019 17:54
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GreatGreen posted:Does this game ever give you a test environment where you can try out weapons before having to spend the resources to get them? Nah, the design is such that building the weapon isn't the core of the investment anyway. Building weapons and ranking them to 30 is part of the loop. Taking the ones you like and investing the resources to slot in more and better mods is where you'd want to consider whether or not a weapon sucks.
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Mar 12, 2019 17:54
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Death Panel Czar posted:Are the jet engines and dangly bits on the Surator syandana animated at all, or is that whole thing static? is it a bug? could be the main issue.
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Mar 12, 2019 18:09
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It would be nice to give the player access to all the frames, weapons, and mods in the game, but only in a limited test environment, from the start of the game. At least that way you could really get a feel for what Warframe has to offer, especially as a new player struggling to see a reason to stay because the only weapon you get is a totally generic and boring assault rifle you're stuck with for quite a while. If I would have had any concept of the kind of ridiculous poo poo you can come up with between frames, guns, and mods in this game I would have been glued to it years ago, instead of installing it a couple years ago like I did and bouncing off it so hard I forgot all about it until recently. In a game like this, you need a specific, tangible reason to grind, and letting players test drive gear is the best incentive I can think of for that. Not to mention this kind of thing would go a long way towards actually showing new players what the game is, which itself is not even very apparent to new players.
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Mar 12, 2019 18:13
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or they might find something like that so overwhelming and have no clue what any of the mods are to make weapons really work so they're looking at 200 choices with no context as to why or what any of them mean so they just quit. regardless, DE has acknowledged new player experience as something they plan to work on this year. Everyone knows it's in need of fixing, at least.
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Mar 12, 2019 18:15
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Yeah, the game probably would sell a lot more of its cosmetics too if it had better "preview" options that let you see the thing with different colorschemes or combinations besides the awkward layered Arsenal menus, some of that stuff doesn't even have actual previews and the only thing supposed to sell you on it is a tiny lovely thumbnail. The freeroam hubs where you can inspect people with fancy fashion sort of help advertise a bit of it. Same for all the frames and weapons, if they had a "test this weapon with top community rated mod layouts" demo-simulacrum. Or sometimes you just see someone in your pub game going ham with a crazy firework display and can then check what they might be using. It's just another aspect of the game's eternal struggle with properly presenting all its wealth of stuff. RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Mar 12, 2019 |
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Mar 12, 2019 18:18
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Adding tutorial missions where you can test out the gameplay of all frames with some tips and prompts would not only go a long way to improving new player experience / stickiness, but I guarantee would sell more poo poo / encourage more grinding. Like, if I'd had something say "here's what you do to make Gara have a shield that does a couple hundred thousand damage to anything nearby, forever" I would've gone to Orb Vallis ASAP and not left until I had the glass queen.
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Mar 12, 2019 18:32
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Psion posted:or they might find something like that so overwhelming and have no clue what any of the mods are to make weapons really work they just quit. It's a double edged sword. I think DE is so awful at explaining things to players that you might be thinking about this in terms of how DE normally does things, in which case I'd agree with you. However, I also think any half way decent tutorial and interface design could account for this. You'd wait until after the player is told what mods are and how to upgrade them, then give the player a simulation space in their orbiter. Then when they enter the sim, say "Here's the simulation room. In this place you'll be able to test out different combinations of Frames and weapons against simulated enemies. In here, you cannot make progress in your game, meaning you'll earn no experience or resources. Instead, you can use this place to learn about all the different weapons, abilities, and strategies you can have at your disposal to deal with the challenges you'll face out there in the solar system. Good luck, Tenno!" or whatever. Then give the player an Arsenal interface with everything (non-cosmetic) unlocked along with a description like required mastery level or whatever. Re-explain that there are almost a thousand mods so approach them more like an encyclopedia than a novel and let the players go nuts. Maybe limit the enemy types they'd be able to fight to enemies they've already encountered but other than that, I think it would be fine to give them access to everything. GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Mar 12, 2019 |
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Mar 12, 2019 18:33
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Fruity20 posted:is it a bug? could be the main issue.
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Mar 12, 2019 18:37
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Adding tutorial missions where you can test out the gameplay of all frames with some tips and prompts would not only go a long way to improving new player experience / stickiness, but I guarantee would sell more poo poo / encourage more grinding. Pablo is doing his absolute best but he's just human after all. I still say they should go for it, but it'll probably be a lengthy iterative process and not some giant "Warframe totally explains everything about itself perfectly and intuitively now" overhaul, as much as we all like to dream of it. 
RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Mar 12, 2019 |
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Mar 12, 2019 18:38
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hey it's not just him, the guy who runs their livestreams put together a lot of those little video tutorials and Pablo called out someone else as helping them out too
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Mar 12, 2019 18:41
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Being able to try weapons/frames before building them would be AMAZING. I slept on the Staticor for so long because the description of it doesn't really give you an idea of what it can really do at all, unless you go out of your way to look up guides or something. Needless to say, I only built it because of a youtube video talking about it being good and I was like there's no way it's that good.
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Mar 12, 2019 18:47
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Similarly i had no idea the Ballistica Prime let you make hilarious enemy ghosts and let it rot in my foundry, unclaimed, for weeks. It's still not a great weapon, but drat, some of that silly fun stuff is impossible to find on your own.
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Mar 12, 2019 18:50
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Giving players simulation access to everything would also remove the need to do those little video descriptions for frames. You could just read the description and if you were still curious, you could try it out yourself in the simulation.
GreatGreen fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Mar 12, 2019 |
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Mar 12, 2019 18:51
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Death Panel Czar posted:Are the jet engines and dangly bits on the Surator syandana animated at all, or is that whole thing static? Its got three flaps that open/close covering smaller jets, if you're idle or actually bullet jumping around like other syndana that move. The big main jet is always going.
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Mar 12, 2019 19:02
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Doesn't Aegis Storm trigger bullet jump syandanas? I didn't notice it when I was using the Icarius one, but I could also have just not noticed. I feel like flying frames should open wings and such.
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Mar 12, 2019 19:22
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Are there any good Thrown secondaries / if so which and how? I got the Limbo Limina bundle so now I throw tarot cards instead of knives and I'm hoping this won't be purely fashion frame.
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Mar 12, 2019 19:38
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Fruity20 posted:So, i finally got frost and I wanna know some builds and how each of his abilities work. i'm enjoying the new system though. Some other little bits I didn't see mentioned about Frost. His 1 can also chill an area of ground, so if you've built yourself for range and any duration this is probably a cheaper way to slow a group or hallway than his 2 or 4. For a while I thought recasting his 3 inside of an existing 3 reset or added to the dome's health. Instead the new domes absorb the old one's health and each have their own few seconds where the globe can absorb incoming damage as extra health. So if you're just surrounded by incoming fire you can spam globes in place for a few seconds and make a single really tanky globe. Doing this does not count against the maximum number of snow globes. In addition to damage and freezing cc, Frost's 4 also strips armor, how much depends on his ability strength. Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Are there any good Thrown secondaries / if so which and how? I got the Limbo Limina bundle so now I throw tarot cards instead of knives and I'm hoping this won't be purely fashion frame. All of the basic throwing knives can be made okay with Concealed explosives and as much multishot as possible. Whichever is fastest and has the most ammo is going to be king here. Concealed Explosives doesn't scale with weapon damage or mods so the goal is to just pepper an area with small explosions, works real real well against anything that isn't big and heavily armored. I remember liking throwing knives but I can't remember any of them being really good, but if any have really good crit or status then that's what you're looking for. There are also the Castanas and probably another remote grenade throwing weapon, those can be made out to be fairly strong but again I was never a big fan. Then there's The Pox. Little gas bag status monsters. Imo the Pox are hands down the best thrown weapon. They're strong, they've got crazy good status, and they proc whatever status you have on them through the gas cloud they leave behind. Mod them for corrosive and blast, toss two on a group of heavy units, watch them them all repeatedly flail on the ground as they get knocked down and have their armor stripped with every tick of the gas cloud. Mod them for straight gas and electric and brutalize Corpus and have a good CO secondary. These things don't have a lot of ammo but they don't need it, you toss a few in a crowd and the crowd dies, toss three in a doorway and just don't worry about people coming through that door for a few seconds. The only thing they can't do is stack slash procs. FunkyFjord fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Mar 12, 2019 |
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Mar 12, 2019 19:43
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v1ld posted:Playing a static defense like Hydron when there's a killframe just standing on the artifact and deleting the map can be utter tedium even though I'm there to level up things and the killframe is doing just that for me. I'm also there to play the game and it's boring to see things die before you can do anything. Being there with a competent Saryn is probably the worst while Mesa isn't bad, she at least needs to see things to kill them. Get Nova and building her for speeding up enemies. It won't solve the issue, but it makes the runs a whole lot faster. I go as Saryn sometimes when I'm with friends who need to level a frame or two and I'm always happy to see a Nova
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Mar 12, 2019 19:47
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A nice Speedva is also a great way to just surprise pub killframes.
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Mar 12, 2019 19:54
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Pox are great, I already had Gas proc Pox with a +toxic +multishot riven, primed heated charge, and I think both the 90 and 60/60 toxic mods. Bought that bundle and slapped that skin on immediately, proudly brought them on a mission to get the Gas Weapon kills Nightwave, figured out that gas status procs didn't actually count for it, didn't care because Pox are good dumb fun.
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Mar 12, 2019 20:53
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I rolled a goddamn Kunai riven with multishot and fire rate and you bet my rear end I went and spent a bunch of forma to make them into a weapon where I can flail wildly and everything will spontaneously explode. Sadly, Concealed Explosives doesn't scale up at all so they're kind of a joke on enemies past level 40.
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Mar 12, 2019 21:09
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so arcane velocity not working with peacemakers is now a bug turned feature, yay https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1067436-patch-2440-mesas-peacemaker-not-working-anymore-as-intended/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-10585588
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Mar 12, 2019 21:22
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Awesome! posted:so arcane velocity not working with peacemakers is now a bug turned feature, yay I'm going to be entirely real with you that I don't have, nor have looked at what Arcanes do. Even having acknowledged that, I'm going to say from my extensive use of Mess Prime that Peacemaker is the last thing on Earth that needs a big buff. I regularly kill Synthesis targets without realizing it because that ability is so drat good.
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Mar 12, 2019 21:33
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Awesome! posted:so arcane velocity not working with peacemakers is now a bug turned feature, yay I hope they actually get a consistent position on arcanes and exalted because they're still broken for every other frame. Saying "oh well we decided to keep this bug as a feature" for Mesa doesn't answer those questions for Excalibur, Valkyr, Titania, even the two people who use Wukong...so that's gotta be addressed too. I'm not thrilled with the idea of 'get a crit with your other weapon and then turn on 4' to fly as a compromise value for Mesa but for some of the others that's just not even plausible to begin with. LornMarkus posted:I'm going to be entirely real with you that I don't have, nor have looked at what Arcanes do. Even having acknowledged that, I'm going to say from my extensive use of Mess Prime that Peacemaker is the last thing on Earth that needs a big buff. it's not about giving it a buff, it's about restoring functionality the game had from forever to mainline. Anyway to answer your question specifically, arcane velocity has a chance to raise fire rate for secondaries when you get a critical hit, giving you +80% rof for 6 seconds at r3. it is truly good when you have regenerating or infinite ammunition, as peacemakers do, but it's also only useful there due to opportunity cost of slotting the arcane. so this is removing 50% of Velocity's use case, the other half being Titania, which is also broken at the moment. You can see why people would be salty even if you don't have them. On a broader note, guardian/energize being doubled down upon as the only arcanes worth taking is not a good outcome when the arcane system already struggles to give you a reason to take anything else. Psion fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Mar 12, 2019 |
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Mar 12, 2019 21:38
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Awesome! posted:so arcane velocity not working with peacemakers is now a bug turned feature, yay That's both completely loving stupid and completely in character with how they've been with... well, everything since Fortuna Part 2 came out.
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Mar 12, 2019 21:44
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Thanks to Stash Augustine's generosity (and the runs we did tonight for some Sarin Prime parts) I've got a 2nd Nikana Prime set ready to gift. I'd like to be part of this. In-game name is Axegrinder45. Thank you.
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Mar 12, 2019 21:48
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Awesome! posted:so arcane velocity not working with peacemakers is now a bug turned feature, yay I kind of wish "yeah, I broke it, but on second thought, gently caress you" was a valid response in my line of work
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Mar 12, 2019 21:54
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you can still just trigger it and then turn on peacemaker
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Mar 12, 2019 21:55
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that would require me to shoot at things outside of peacemaker though very happy i only bought a couple velocities to get to rank 2 and not the whole hog
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Mar 12, 2019 22:05
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Psion posted:it is truly good when you have regenerating or infinite ammunition, as peacemakers do, but it's also only useful there due to opportunity cost of slotting the arcane. so this is removing 50% of Velocity's use case, the other half being Titania, which is also broken at the moment. You can see why people would be salty even if you don't have them. at least I got it before Mesap was announced and the price doubled, i guess edit: the dude in that thread going "Yeah but Peacemaker loving sucks against armor, check out this poo poo involving level 250, 400, and 1,300 enemies is pretty comical though Zereth fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Mar 12, 2019 |
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Mar 12, 2019 22:22
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what do you even have to do to get the game to generate level 1300 enemies
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Mar 12, 2019 22:26
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Johnny Joestar posted:you can still just trigger it and then turn on peacemaker You don't have to defend every stupid and bad decision they make, btw
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Mar 12, 2019 22:31
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probably 2 hours in the index or Mot or ESO? Neither titania nor mesa needed a R3 to be even more insane, but they should really give people another fun and actually significant use case in return if they remove some powerful synergy.
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Mar 12, 2019 22:35
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Johnny Joestar posted:you can still just trigger it and then turn on peacemaker Ok but Titania and valkyr and Excalibur and every other frame where pushing 4 doesn’t delete the room? Or more specifically, what about frames where staying in exalted for extended durations is the point rather than the exception?
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Mar 12, 2019 22:35
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RoadCrewWorker posted:Neither titania nor mesa needed a R3 to be even more insane No one has ever said they "need" it more damage/bigger numbers = more fun how is this hard for people to grasp
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Mar 12, 2019 22:43
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My gaming plan for after work is literally to see how big I can make the numbers get with Ivara and crit buff stacking. I like big numbers, okay.
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Mar 12, 2019 22:45
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Kyrosiris posted:You don't have to defend every stupid and bad decision they make, btw i don't. this is just kind of a weird and inconsequential thing, is all
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Mar 12, 2019 22:54
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Kyrosiris posted:No one has ever said they "need" it I think the problem is that it's kind of lame when two or three warframes/guns/whatever spiral out of control into complete crazy murder town and the rest are "merely good" at best and "completely useless compared to X" at worst. Even without arcanes Mesa is already an unbelievably, game-bustingly powerful warframe and anytime she gets better, it makes it harder to justify running literally any other warframe. Like, what if Peacemaker did ten times what it currently does? By the bigger numbers = more fun train of logic that'd be amazing, but it doesn't mean it's not a bad decision that utterly invalidates every method of killing enemies that aren't immune to powers. But then again, I'm one of those crazy people that doesn't find wiping out every enemy on the map with the touch of a button fun, and I also kinda hate when I join a game and oops somebody is soloing the entire mission for me, better go take a nap next to the crypod. So I guess I'm just a wrong person or something.
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Mar 12, 2019 22:55
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when higher numbers just railroad all weapons into the same play style and mod sets, they might be bad I'm against more damage arcanes. I wouldn't mind if they were reserved for utility and weapon behavior changes like exodias and pax arcanes even then, I feel they need to be consistent here. If the exalted weapon is a secondary, secondary arcanes should work there, no question
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Mar 12, 2019 23:03
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