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Hostile V posted:[slowly drags the company mechanics from Reign out of where I've been keeping them in case of emergency] I feel like I'm stuck in a "grass is greener" situation with Blades and Spire. I like the Core Mechanic and Stress/Harm/Fallout of Spire more, but all the extra world-mechanics (Faction, Vice, Heat) of Blades. Definitely time to build in some mechanics from other games. I think I'm going to mash in some Reign, some Blades, some Legacy: Life Among the Ruins, and some Cortex Prime.
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Mar 12, 2019 19:43
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What do the people who think serious topics can’t be addressed respectfully in roleplaying games think of Charnel Houses of Europe? I’ve never heard of anyone being able to play it, but a lot of people think it’s the best book in the stellar writing of Wraith.
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Mar 12, 2019 19:59
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I can see how making them might be part of a healing process. But releasing them into the wild seems careless. (For want of a better word.) I don't think serious topics can't be the focus of games, but they probably shouldn't be. For every Charnel Houses of Europe there were a hundred WoD: Gypsies.
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Mar 12, 2019 20:15
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Hell, release them too. But that doesn’t mean someone should actually play them.
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Mar 12, 2019 20:50
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Nah, actually people should be making serious games and people should be playing them. Just because your table is based around a bunch of friends getting drunk and making Monty Python jokes doesn't mean that's the structure of every table, and not every game has to be for every table. There are groups who are willing to address these issues in an earnest and heartfelt way. In some cases, a degree of aesthetic distance can be useful, like how Changeling the Lost discusses themes of trauma and abuse. In other cases, a more direct approach has a more powerful impact. Yes, a lot of stuff out there is poo poo. Don't play the poo poo. Just don't play bad games in general. There's tons of bad games and nobody should be playing them. Life is too short for badly designed games. The industry could use some more curation, it's true, but some exists. Also, look at who is creating your serious games. If it's entirely abled, cishet, white dudes then you need to consider if they have the necessary life experience to cover the material in the product. Look to see if they've brought in sensitivity readers, look to see if they've consulted with a wider variety of voices and perspectives in creating the work. As for the intersection of game mechanics and serious topics, the world as a whole, and oppression in general, operates on systemic levels. By understanding, and occasionally abstracting, these systems, it is possible to create games that reflect the variance of reality to a degree that is more accurate to reality, and thus more of a powerful expression, than would be possible in a more passive work. If the game doesn't handle things well, again, don't play that game. If your group can't handle these themes maturely, don't play that game with them. But these games should exist, these games should be made, and the voices of marginalized creators who are making these games should not be silenced by more privileged people who see these more emotionally intense games as an intrusion into their beer and pretzels fun time space. There's room for both of these things, and people who think otherwise can gently caress right off.
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Mar 12, 2019 21:19
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I backed Rosenstrasse because of this discussion. There's five days left on the kickstarter, and they're approaching their first stretch goal (a collection of essays that look really interesting).
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Mar 13, 2019 03:29
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I'm really hoping the last surge gets the colection of essays funded. There's stuff in that list I really want to read. e. 5 days, $700 for the collection, c'mon in ! The water's fine ! also full of sharks
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Mar 13, 2019 03:48
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Arivia posted:What do the people who think serious topics can’t be addressed respectfully in roleplaying games think of Charnel Houses of Europe? I’ve never heard of anyone being able to play it, but a lot of people think it’s the best book in the stellar writing of Wraith. As a standalone product, it's fine. I don't see it slotting into anything besides ultra-specific one shots or short and depressing interludes in a Wraith game. But given that so many of the oWoD supplements are only useful as bathroom reading anyway, maybe that was the point?
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Mar 13, 2019 04:24
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Charnel Houses is more an elaboration of an aspect of the setting, so its not so much a binary "play/don't play" piece. You could use it for specific flashbacks or historical games, but given the premise of Wraith it can also just be background information that informs specific NPCs or institutions in your game set decades later. So I'm not sure if it would necessarily fall under the same sort of question being discussed here. Though it does seem like its a reasonable parallel question, about describing real world tragedies in relation to a fictional take on the real world. Especially given V5/Mark Rein-Hagen's final fart of "relevancy" in the last few months.
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Mar 13, 2019 19:22
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I think some people are reading Serious Game as inherently trauma porn. They're not interchangeable. Making trauma porn as a role-playing game is a danger and potential failure of a serious games designer, not the goal. Monopoly critiques rent culture through long attrition gameplay that's designed to frustrate and tilt advantage towards lucky rolls made in the first few turns. Old Pilgrims Progress games had a "charity space" that required players that landed on it to donate a real penny to the named charity, often in an included envelope. The Gray Ranks explores the mindset of teenagers in a hosed up rebellion by making players navigate youth culture in a time of war. These all fit the definition of "Game Design engaging with social issues" yet only one them asks you to play a person in a traumatic event. There are even fictionalized serious games. For example, Jason Morningstar once gave a lecture at my college and discussed making a game about the Holocaust vs making a game about Combat Interpreters in Iraq. Since the conversations that lead to making a game about the Holocaust was presenting history in a way that people would engage with he decided to keep the setting in actual World War II. However when he was making Terps he found that people don't like role-playing someone that was actually abandoned by the US military in a contemporary setting. Therefore Terps became a game about space Marines with extraterrestrial combat interpreters to place a barrier between reality and play. A game that triggers people to the point of ruining the table shouldn't be the goal of any game design. But that doesn't mean that every game that engages with trauma is written exploitively.
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Mar 13, 2019 23:48
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Liquid Communism posted:Note that is part of why I despise Dystopia Rising. Take horror, give it immediacy on a level that provokes fight or flight, and keep this up for 36 hours without space to decompress OOG? That is going to gently caress with people who thought they were down with it in unexpected ways and they will try to soldier on because they dont want to ruin others' fun. I have played in LARPs similar to this, though ours were sci-fi survival horror rather than post apoc. Buuut even as the first 36(ish) hour larp people had run on this side of the country, by a bunch of 20 year olds many of whom had never run LARP before, they knew enough to have OOG areas. You had to opt into the 24 hour stuff, and be approved by the storytellers. Half of the sleeping areas were OOG as in, nighttime stuff ONLY happened to people in those dorms. If you were in the other dorms you might hear wierd noises, but you couldn't be messed with. And anyone could go sleep in those dorms at any time. It's one of my favourite LARP experiences though, as you get some really intense experiences after 20 hours of not sleeping (and then the STs coming to suggest you go to bed). I often think of immersion as a meaningless word to sell games, but actually being in character for hours straight gives you a lot more chance to be immersed. From everything I've heard of DR I can't imagine in a place with such a long history of LARP in general (the US has been larping longer than I've been alive) it could have been done so badly by accident.
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Mar 14, 2019 00:51
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In my mind, the real secret is that Michael Pucci, the lead designer of Dystopia Rising, doesn’t come from a boffer tradition, he comes from Vamp Larp. Vamp Larp is particularly well known for its toxic power structures and tendency to intrude upon out of game spaces in unpleasant ways, as well as for having requiring large amounts of time and money invested into a game before seeing any return as a power player. DR then takes this dynamic and throws it into a boffer context, with more prominent threats of in game violence, an economic system that requires constant reinvestment, and a PvP system that incentives participating in these structures fully or risk isolation and in game murder. And on top of this comes a heavy dollop of racism. DR is a fascist game.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:11
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This is only tangentially related, but does anyone have(or can point me to the right place to ask for) a link to a good and current rundown of the Mignogna allegations? I'm feeling like I need to arm myself because my local Con has: A) Announced him as a guest, and B) Apparently been deleting comments from women voicing their concern about this, And I need more facts before I send my "disappointed and disgusted and what do you mean no refunds?" email.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:22
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El Fideo posted:This is only tangentially related, but does anyone have(or can point me to the right place to ask for) a link to a good and current rundown of the Mignogna allegations? I'm feeling like I need to arm myself because my local Con has: Here you go. It's been a well known secret for years Vic is extremely creepy towards female fans. Some of his fellow female voice actors also have stories they've shared on Twitter. The biggest is probably Monica Rial. Lots of cons have disinvited him, the biggest to make the bold flex of not doing so is MatsuriCon.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:29
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Thank you. I'm in an odd space with this, since the women who run the Con and the cosplayers who are starting to organize a boycott because of what's going on are all acquaintances from outside the Con, and I do volunteer work during the event itself. There is nothing in that article that doesn't make Mignogna sound like a pest.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:43
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If you want some video evidence, here's some video evidence of Vic "jokingly" hitting on a preteen Wonder Woman cosplayer and here's Vic asking another young cosplayer if they'd like to be an Orion slave girl from later in that same video.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:52
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here's one from gizmodo too
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Mar 14, 2019 01:55
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Meinberg posted:In my mind, the real secret is that Michael Pucci, the lead designer of Dystopia Rising, doesn’t come from a boffer tradition, he comes from Vamp Larp. Vamp Larp is particularly well known for its toxic power structures and tendency to intrude upon out of game spaces in unpleasant ways, as well as for having requiring large amounts of time and money invested into a game before seeing any return as a power player. I run and play in a lot of 'boffer' larps (we use latex weapons but same deal). There is very limited crossover between us and Vamp Larp, and of the dozen or so players who have come from Vamp Larp, maybe one of them isn't a net negative. I've got Opinions about vamp larp.
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Mar 14, 2019 14:28
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Xelkelvos posted:It's 100% unclear at this point, I think with what's gonna happen to pricing. It's probably likely that prices will go down in certain countries, but it sounds like WotC is gonna keep their hands off of suggested MSRP at this point. This probably also saves them headaches about having to argue with retailers about trying to maintain a particular MSRP and essentially let them try and figure out what margin they want to be competitive. Retailers are going to be buying packs and stuff at the same price, but allowing them to pick their own price point without a suggested MSRP is probably just so they don't have to deal with it as much any more. Lol it's so that it's not on them when prices go up because wotc raised the wholesale cost They did a dry run a year or two back, they raised the price for stores but not the msrp, to see what would happen. Turns out stores just took it in the shorts because players scream if the prices go up Source: j work at a shop This is thirty pages old but goddammit I know something for once
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Mar 14, 2019 15:47
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OH gently caress THISPassive Aggressive Bullshit posted:
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Mar 14, 2019 17:47
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The best way to protect perverts is with pidgin Hawaiian. Kemosabe shalom don’t take to cops Ohana!
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Mar 14, 2019 17:56
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Ah yes, the old "I won't say you're wrong, but you can't say it here [because I think you're wrong and don't want to get rightfully roasted over my lovely views]." What a bunch of assholes.
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Mar 14, 2019 18:12
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El Fideo posted:OH gently caress THIS This should get put on blast. Also forward it to Gizmondo, ANN and other sites that originally reported on the Mignogna thing also possibly other guests that the Con is hosting who might be amenable to that.
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Mar 14, 2019 18:18
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All sorts of people on their twitter feed are talking about how great it is that someone's standing up for Vic in all this. I feel unclean.
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Mar 14, 2019 18:50
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Kurieg posted:All sorts of people on their twitter feed are talking about how great it is that someone's standing up for Vic in all this. The gater crew are making this their foot-in-the-door for an animegate, so don't be shocked at any people voicing support. Even if they're not multiple alts of a small group of people, they're most likely outsiders who are invading anime discussions as a flimsy excuse to make minorities feel unsafe.
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Mar 14, 2019 19:26
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Yeah. People are saying that the claims "have been proven false" when Vic himself admits that they happened. so... yeah.
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Mar 14, 2019 19:35
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Nuns with Guns posted:The gater crew are making this their foot-in-the-door for an animegate, so don't be shocked at any people voicing support. Even if they're not multiple alts of a small group of people, they're most likely outsiders who are invading anime discussions as a flimsy excuse to make minorities feel unsafe. I feel it is important to note that anime fandom has plenty of its own racist shitbags - they don't have to invade anywhere, they just have to start talking about their racist shittiness in anime zones, too.
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Mar 14, 2019 19:40
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Mors Rattus posted:I feel it is important to note that anime fandom has plenty of its own racist shitbags - they don't have to invade anywhere, they just have to start talking about their racist shittiness in anime zones, too. As an anime fan, it sucks. With discord and such I pretty much have to look for lefty places to post anime cuz otherwise you post any number of trans/crossplay/etc and holy poo poo do you get so many heated gamer moments. It’s insane.
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Mar 14, 2019 19:43
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I didn't do it. Ok I did it but they deserved it. Sorry if I offended anyone. They were bad too. Why is this still a thing I apologized. They lied too. Why is this still a thing they were proven to be liars. I didn't do it.
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Mar 14, 2019 19:44
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Chill la Chill posted:As an anime fan, it sucks. With discord and such I pretty much have to look for lefty places to post anime cuz otherwise you post any number of trans/crossplay/etc and holy poo poo do you get so many heated gamer moments. It’s insane. I still don't like talking about anime in nearly any community outside like...a scant handful of threads here, because holy poo poo why is our communal language for discussing anime one that is built on slurs and pedophile slang
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Mar 14, 2019 19:46
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Mors Rattus posted:I still don't like talking about anime in nearly any community outside like...a scant handful of threads here, because holy poo poo why is our communal language for discussing anime one that is built on slurs and pedophile slang Okay, minor derail, but can you elaborate on this? My exposure to anime is thoroughly in the "I have watched some anime" camp and I've never really engaged with the anime community at large. That's a thing????? What?
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Mar 14, 2019 19:57
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Oh friend, this is a rabbit hole you do not wish to explore.
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Mar 14, 2019 20:01
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Xiahou Dun posted:Okay, minor derail, but can you elaborate on this? Short form, the two words I am specifically thinking of are: 'trap' - a feminine-looking character with a penis, a "trap" for people who think of them as a girl. Used now as a slur on trans people. 'loli' - a child. these words are loving omnipresent
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Mar 14, 2019 20:02
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Also "waifu", waifu is pretty gross in most contexts in which it's used. There's a lot more, really. It gets pretty unpleasant.
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Mar 14, 2019 20:07
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My understanding is there is large overlap of anime fans and chud maga people. I know not all anime fans are trumpers but a lot of them are.
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Mar 14, 2019 20:08
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They're also very prone to using other adopted terms to paper over unacceptable ones. Usually a loanword from Japanese.
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Mar 14, 2019 20:10
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From what I can tell, anime fans are either Maga chuds or they’re ardently progressive leftists.
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Mar 14, 2019 20:20
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Mors Rattus posted:Short form, the two words I am specifically thinking of are: Wrt the t-slur, both PedanticRomantic (one of fairly few popular left anitubers) and Contrapoints (leftist video essayist) have very good videos talking about the problems with the slur and its memification by both the anime crowd and the alt-right.
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Mar 14, 2019 20:24
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Meinberg posted:From what I can tell, anime fans are either Maga chuds or they’re ardently progressive leftists. 
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Mar 14, 2019 20:25
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Cocomonk3 posted:I run and play in a lot of 'boffer' larps (we use latex weapons but same deal). When people think about atrocious vampire LARPers it's always the national org people. Always. It's a seductive idea, especially in a game like WoD that pushes global metaplot so hard. You're actually participating in a worldwide event! You can change things with enough effort and there's even players in high-up positions! And then you attend your first con with a doe-eyed 11th gen, diablerize Lugoj, and immediately get your character taken away by other characters you could never hope to confront because they've got 10~ years in the org and turns out that's the group of people who get to make decisions, actually, and they're this messed up constantly dramabombing clique granting shady favors left and right and abuse of authority and harassment/outright assault are just expected by everyone because, hey, no one else wants to ST and Phil mostly shits on other people with that questionable sheet. And your complaint about Bob, well, he said he didn't intend to be creepy when he was propositioning the new person so what's the big deal? I also got Opinions on vamp LARP
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Mar 14, 2019 20:34
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