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Seriously? Wow, I should've picked that on way more people
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Mar 12, 2019 14:40
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tarbrush posted:Seriously? Wow, I should've picked that on way more people Well, obviously you can't use it for shooting (since if you move somewhere you have LoS to shoot someone, you're no longer unseen unless concealed), and melee attacks are usually pretty high hit chance to begin with. But it's still a nice bonus for careful positioning. I wonder if it's possible to get it as a bonus skill on a sharpshooter? Because that would be hilariously broken.
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Mar 12, 2019 20:06
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It is absolutely terrible luck that that hack on the Mec failed. You could have used that to blow the objective and been done right there.
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Mar 13, 2019 05:43
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Akratic Method posted:the game doesn’t make it clear, but (there’s a refrain) It could be worse - there's an ability in the expansion whose description makes it sound like it only works half the time when it actually works 100% of the time. It's a heckuva lot better that way. Silent Killer, the ability I never ever took until I noticed something funny in the legacy pack missions where someone has it by default You guys are really getting the hang of this - generally a lot of good moves, with occasional understandable mistakes like the acid grenade (though I think its description actually does say that it doesn't go through cover, and the guy and cover weren't highlighted in red).
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Mar 13, 2019 08:39
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Qrr posted:It could be worse - there's an ability in the expansion whose description makes it sound like it only works half the time when it actually works 100% of the time. It's a heckuva lot better that way.
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Mar 13, 2019 09:13
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Rather (WotC stuff for a unit not in base), the odds of being revealed are 50 percent after one shot and 80 after two, but with that skill any kill shot doesn't count so if you kill every shot it never advances to 50 in the first place. If you take one normal shot then get a kill it's 50 rather than 80.
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Mar 13, 2019 09:27
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Bruceski posted:Rather (WotC stuff for a unit not in base), the odds of being revealed are 50 percent after one shot and 80 after two, but with that skill any kill shot doesn't count so if you kill every shot it never advances to 50 in the first place. If you take one normal shot then get a kill it's 50 rather than 80. Essentially, the base chance is 0%, and goes up with each shot before it's rolled. So normally the first shot is 50%, then 80%, etc. The ability makes it so it doesn't go up if the shot is a kill, so if every shot is a kill it stays at 0. If a shot isn't a kill, it will make the 50% roll, and if the next shot is a kill it will be 50% again, etc. The ability just says the chance doesn't go up on kills, though, so it's really easy to read the ability as locking the chance at 50%. Which would make for a very weak ability instead of one of the most broken ones in the game.
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Mar 13, 2019 10:49
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I am facepalming so hard right now. And by this point I really ought to be aware of the fact XCOM rewards exploration of your options...
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Mar 13, 2019 11:54
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Got to play an Avenger defense mission for the first time myself (never got shot down before so I wasn't even aware this was possible) just before seeing the video, was unlucky/stupid enough to get half my people bombed with micro missiles on the round before evac  RE: Nat comments on equipment: Frost Grenade is super powerful, but it wasn't in the base game - and I never got around to buy the expansions cause I didn't like a lot of the content. Also I love the fact that Nat and Tea have tried to go over the "Build Items" list and managed once again to completely gloss over the Mimic Beacon  Which to be fair is not mandatory in normal, as powerful as it is, especially once you start having a good hang on the game. But it's such a handy reset button to fix mistakes that is always useful, imo. A properly placed beacon will cost 1 action and waste 4+ (move+shoot) actions on the enemy end, while protecting an exposed soldier and it doesn't really care about enemy positioning since it can be thrown so far away.
That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 12:26
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Qrr posted:It could be worse - there's an ability in the expansion whose description makes it sound like it only works half the time when it actually works 100% of the time. It's a heckuva lot better that way. I actually got into an argument with the XCOM thread about that skill when I was playing WotC a couple months ago because the thread was so used to how they know it works and I was going off of how it's displayed 
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Mar 13, 2019 13:54
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To be quite honest I've played a ton of Xcom and never built a mimic beacon, so I entirely understand how they're continuing to miss it.
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Mar 13, 2019 15:21
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sniper4625 posted:To be quite honest I've played a ton of Xcom and never built a mimic beacon, so I entirely understand how they're continuing to miss it. I've never even used the specialty grenades so this is a whole new world of opportunity for me if I do another playthrough  Really hoping they get bluescreen rounds soon, those were super good for me in WotC once more robots started showing up in the advent troops
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Mar 13, 2019 15:29
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sniper4625 posted:To be quite honest I've played a ton of Xcom and never built a mimic beacon, so I entirely understand how they're continuing to miss it. Yeah it's not that it's mandatory, especially on normal...but a single mimic beacon is so much more powerful than a single regular grenade that as long as you have it, there is really no point in not bringing one. It's kind of a "one-size-fit-all" solution when you have a difficult turn. - Moved in the wrong spot? Beacon and save your soldier while wasting 2+ aliens turns; - Sectopod still alive? Mimic beacon; - Want some aliens to move out of high cover? Beacon and they'll try to flank it; By the way, I think at this point is clear that I receive a % on every single *************Mimic Beacon**************This is to make the spoiler tag longer************** that is sold to XCOM. 
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Mar 13, 2019 15:47
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Qrr posted:(though I think its description actually does say that it doesn't go through cover, and the guy and cover weren't highlighted in red). I attribute this entirely to the camera also yeah Nat completely glossing over the item in question, not even looking at it again and trying to think "well maybe this is the broken thing, why might they say that?", is hilarious. Like, use your sense of logic, dude!
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Mar 13, 2019 17:54
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GeneX posted:I attribute this entirely to the camera to their credit re:broken thing discussion Flash bangs are drat good and I don't think he realized that his jokingly large radius for flashbangs is pretty spot on. That said, the continued trend of completely missing the mimic beacon's existence amused the hell out of me.
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Mar 13, 2019 17:59
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i feel like by this point if they ever figure it out, the item will be so overhyped that it'll be a disappointment regardless. it's not that amazing
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Mar 13, 2019 19:03
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Yeah, it's what I was trying to allude to with the whole Silent Killer story: in XCOM, it really pays to explore your options. Some of the most humble looking items have amazing potential when used right.
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Mar 13, 2019 19:03
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From my incredibly uninformed perspective, it seems that Nat is locked into the mindset that the only good defense is a good offense. From that perspective, things like the Mimic Beacon don’t seem appealing because it doesn’t directly aid you in killing the target, and both he and Tea seem loathe to allow the enemy to get a turn in the first place. From the sounds of the thread though, it seems like eventually they’ll run into something they can’t burn down in round or two of combat, so maybe then they’ll start looking at their defensive options?
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Mar 13, 2019 22:02
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Notty posted:From my incredibly uninformed perspective Basically, yes
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Mar 13, 2019 22:13
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Notty posted:From my incredibly uninformed perspective, it seems that Nat is locked into the mindset that the only good defense is a good offense. From that perspective, things like the Mimic Beacon don’t seem appealing because it doesn’t directly aid you in killing the target, and both he and Tea seem loathe to allow the enemy to get a turn in the first place. From the sounds of the thread though, it seems like eventually they’ll run into something they can’t burn down in round or two of combat, so maybe then they’ll start looking at their defensive options? To be fair...in the early to mid-game they're correct. It IS better to kill your enemies than to have better defenses. It's all about the action economy. You want to have as many of your actions in play (hence the importance of squad size upgrades) and give your enemies as few actions as you can (which his also why the Frost Grenade is so OP). That's also why everyone hates the Alien Rulers...because they take the normal action economy and break it over their knee (or serpent lower body, or jet engine, as the case may be). It's also why its so important to try and face the enemy one pod at a time. If you can make sure every skirmish within a larger battle is 12 XCOM actions (squad of 6, 2 actions each) vs 6 ADVENT actions, then the fact that there are fifteen ADVENT total vs your six dudes doesn't matter as much. But as you correctly infer, we're rapidly approaching the point where there will be big enough enemies that killing them in one turn is difficult if not impossible. Especially if you don't have max level gear, which you almost certainly won't. Eventually, once everyone's a Colonel in power armor with plasma weapons, focusing down the really big poo poo (Andromedons, Gatekeepers, and especially Sectopods) quickly actually is possible. But with LTs, Caps, and maybe one Major with Magnetics? That's a tall order, and that's when purely defensive toys and skills like the Mimic Beacon really come into their own. jng2058 fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 22:20
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Notty posted:From my incredibly uninformed perspective, it seems that Nat is locked into the mindset that the only good defense is a good offense. From that perspective, things like the Mimic Beacon don’t seem appealing because it doesn’t directly aid you in killing the target, and both he and Tea seem loathe to allow the enemy to get a turn in the first place. From the sounds of the thread though, it seems like eventually they’ll run into something they can’t burn down in round or two of combat, so maybe then they’ll start looking at their defensive options? Additionally... Trying to keep the enemies from taking actions is the right tactic. Even late game, though it gets harder. The problem is more that, as has been said, 90% of soldier deaths in X-Com are caused by things like accidentally activating a second pod later in your turn. No one's really suggesting a player should use a mimic grenade every turn, and mostly Nat has the right tactic. But mimic grenades are extremely valuable for those "oh poo poo" moments where you activate another pod, and they also let you take more risks like running those sword rangers forward to kill people, which does help with killing the enemies quick, because you know if you accidentally activate more enemies you can throw a mimic grenade and basically freeze every active enemy on the map for one turn.
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Mar 13, 2019 23:31
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Mar 14, 2019 00:16
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You misread something key. Implacable isn't a bonus action, it's a bonus move. Go out --> kill --> retreat to cover, not a kill chain.
Bruceski fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Mar 14, 2019 |
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Mar 14, 2019 00:49
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I gotta admit, it's pretty amusing to watch you guys logic out some of these things. ...even if you end up making the wrong choice because of a lack of relevant data. In this case Bladestorm is by far the better choice, because it lets you use forward placed Rangers to massacre Chryssalids, who are too fast and too dodgy to reliably take out with overwatch. But they don't know that since the death bugs haven't deigned to show themselves yet! It'll be fun seeing how that plays out down the line!
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Mar 14, 2019 00:55
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jng2058 posted:I gotta admit, it's pretty amusing to watch you guys logic out some of these things. ...even if you end up making the wrong choice because of a lack of relevant data. In this case Bladestorm is by far the better choice, because it lets you use forward placed Rangers to massacre Chryssalids, who are too fast and too dodgy to reliably take out with overwatch. But they don't know that since the death bugs haven't deigned to show themselves yet! Watching Pete die to those things when Nat runs up and tries to stab it to death is going to be really sad. Also I feel like Guardian is an amazing ability, given that it appears it can trigger on itself and create a chain of overwatches until you run out of ammo, but given that Emi is wedded to the Bolt Caster, giving her a "take a potshot if you run the hell away" power isn't a bad idea. Very well played mission, by the way, the game just giving you a billion soldiers to use at once made it a very nice farming run.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:14
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I think you managed to pick the one pixel where the micromissiles wouldn't hit a single enemy. Implacable and Bladestorm are both really nice. That said, Bladestorm is heavily reliant on anticipating what the enemies will do (if you know they'll run up and try to melee your soldier, etc) which requires knowing the enemy AI pretty well - so I think you made the right choice considering your level of experience with the game. Also, remember that you can sell stuff at the black market for supplies.
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Mar 14, 2019 01:16
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GeneX posted:Also I feel like Guardian is an amazing ability, given that it appears it can trigger on itself and create a chain of overwatches until you run out of ammo, but given that Emi is wedded to the Bolt Caster, giving her a "take a potshot if you run the hell away" power isn't a bad idea. It can definitely do that, but it's 50% on top of 50% on top of 50% so I'd only choose based on a 50% single proc than playing the long odds. That said, seeing a new big nasty stomp into view and immediately die to that one in a hundred chain of six shots is beautiful.
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Mar 14, 2019 02:40
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Is there anyone who DOESN'T take spite potshots from extraction? That seems to be a very standard XCOM skill/habit development.jng2058 posted:I gotta admit, it's pretty amusing to watch you guys logic out some of these things.
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Mar 14, 2019 09:00
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The gently caress
Affi fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Mar 14, 2019 |
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Mar 14, 2019 09:21
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Excellent work on that mission, Nat and Tea. We now interrupt the regular programming with a public service announcement. I'll just add this message here to those who have missed it elsewhere on the forums in the past days. There are threads stickied in GBS and elsewhere so I won't start a new one: Please do your civic duty and donate to our invertebrate overlord Lowtax. He needs to grow a new spine after the old one fell apart at the neck (WTF? That can happen? Welcome, new nightmares!) and the healthcare bills are a bitch since he is in the USA. Your money can help keep Something Awful alive; if you have enjoyed having it around, put some goodwill and currency over there: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/GamingGarbage Direct donate through SA: https://secure.somethingawful.com/products/donate.php I will throw some money his way at some point since these forums are a good thing to have. Here's hoping his head doesn't fall off from lack of vertebra or that he doesn't collapse into a boneless puddle of flesh some day. Fight against entropy and donate.
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Mar 14, 2019 09:42
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Fish Noise posted:Is there anyone who DOESN'T take spite potshots from extraction? That seems to be a very standard XCOM skill/habit development. You do get kill experience, so there's a gameplay benefit from it. I usually don't, though, because once you find out there's a benefit to it it just becomes tedious :P
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Mar 14, 2019 10:11
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Why take spite potshots when you can throw spite grenades?
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Mar 14, 2019 12:45
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Bremen posted:That said, Bladestorm is heavily reliant on anticipating what the enemies will do (if you know they'll run up and try to melee your soldier, etc) which requires knowing the enemy AI pretty well - so I think you made the right choice considering your level of experience with the game. Bladestorm triggers on any enemy action in your melee range so you can run up and stab something that won't die from it and then if they try to shoot you you'll attack them again before they fire, which opens up a lot of options regarding action efficiency. If you can finish your turn in cover from other enemies it's a really good way to take a higher health pool enemy out. Obviously you have to weigh the risk of one of the attacks missing but 
IcePhoenix fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Mar 14, 2019 |
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Mar 14, 2019 13:52
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I love bladestorm, but implacable is also really handy for murdering people in awkward places and still being able to get into cover.
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Mar 14, 2019 14:01
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Bladestorm is also good at countering Advent reinforcements. Since the reinforcing units are forced to do a cover seeking move as their first action, a Bladestorm ranger sitting on the red flare gets a free hit on them. It's a powerful but very aggressive ability, since it usually requires the ranger to stand right next to the heat. Implacable is very good as well, and allows for more conservative play. Like Bremen said, Implacable might be better for less experienced players.
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Mar 14, 2019 14:29
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Yeah Bladestorm was the skill that made me really fall in love with Rangers, turns 'em into a cuisinart.
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Mar 14, 2019 15:13
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Bladestorm has saved many a soldier many a time and with some of the higher end Ranger doings can get real Rules of Nature real fast.
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Mar 14, 2019 16:05
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Affi posted:Jesus gently caress was that a poor choice you just made. this is a bad post
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Mar 14, 2019 16:15
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Mordja posted:Yeah Bladestorm was the skill that made me really fall in love with Rangers, turns 'em into a cuisinart. Implacabile is great when you rush you ranger forward and end up revealing something else for the same reason Mimic Beacon is good, ironically
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Mar 14, 2019 17:01
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GeneX posted:this is a bad post Yeah that was some black magic fuckery cause i wrote that up in spoiler tags and it was a longer sentence too. No loving idea why it didn’t take. (Still a bad post)
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Mar 14, 2019 17:02
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