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Subjunctive posted:What would prevent them from doing that correlation if the sector wasn’t there? Is this a GDPR nicety I wasn’t aware of?
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Mar 13, 2019 14:47
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FoolyCharged posted:I feel like sticking "paid" in front of exclusives is deliberately misleading enough to not trust the rest of that list. That line is intentionally written in order to pretend that dota2, only on steam, isn't a thing. Stop being a dumb dumb. Discrediting this list because of one thing and you didnt even mention the obviously false China spyware line. Fact is fact and most of that list is true and its a truth that is easily validated. So let’s try again. What else is wrong with this list according to you?
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Mar 13, 2019 15:09
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I have no idea, because all of my knowledge of epic comes from this thread. I ignored the China thing because I honestly dont know if the Chinese government has a deal with them to spy on their own people. People saying that there are incredibly frequent attempts to seize their accounts that make it farther than such things should is damning enough. Making poo poo up is counter productive if the store has real issues that big.
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Mar 13, 2019 15:31
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Community Manager for Snapshot just called someone in reddit "toxic cock-waffle" lmao
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Mar 13, 2019 15:36
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FoolyCharged posted:I feel like sticking "paid" in front of exclusives is deliberately misleading enough to not trust the rest of that list. That line is intentionally written in order to pretend that dota2, only on steam, isn't a thing. Steam's exclusives are things made by Valve. Epic's exclusives are things not made by Epic. 3rd Party games on Steam can and are sold everywhere else too - and of those sales Valve doesn't even take a cut. That's not exclusives. Also add "Being able to choose an install location" to the list of things Steam has and Epic's Store doesn't. Oh and controller config and support, which for some reason isn't on that list either. That's a big one.
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Mar 13, 2019 15:38
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FoolyCharged posted:I feel like sticking "paid" in front of exclusives is deliberately misleading enough to not trust the rest of that list. That line is intentionally written in order to pretend that dota2, only on steam, isn't a thing. Steam doesn't restrict dota2 to only Steam. The developer is free to put it on another platform if they wanted.
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Mar 13, 2019 15:41
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FoolyCharged posted:People saying that there are incredibly frequent attempts to seize their accounts that make it farther than such things should is damning enough. Does Steam notify you in the same cases (password attempt failure)? I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like that from them, over many years, and I’d be very surprised if people aren’t clubbing at the doors of publicly-visible Steam accounts too. I used to get them from Epic before Fortnite was even a thing, because people would try to pop the game engine license accounts. I’d get them all the time from Google too, before 2FA. I might be misunderstanding, though: what exactly do you mean by “make it farther than such things should”? What should Epic be doing differently?
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Mar 13, 2019 15:44
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singateco posted:Community Manager for Snapshot just called someone in reddit "toxic cock-waffle" lmao "Epic" insults need to die
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Mar 13, 2019 15:57
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Subjunctive posted:I might be misunderstanding, though: what exactly do you mean by “make it farther than such things should”? What should Epic be doing differently? Asehujiko posted:In the 15 years I've had steam, they've sent me purchase confirmations and a password reset like once. The part where the log in attempts seem to have gotten through all the way and that the attackers gained access to the users' email.
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Mar 13, 2019 15:58
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FoolyCharged posted:The part where the log in attempts seem to have gotten through all the way and that the attackers gained access to the users' email. You mean that they managed to log in? To an email provider, like gmail? I’m not following, I think.  Email addresses are quite easy to find for purposes of attack, and you don’t see all the ones attackers try that aren’t real accounts.When I get a notification from Epic it’s because someone has used my username or email address (both very public items) and not managed to log in. You get the email to encourage you to add 2FA in case a breach somewhere drops the password that most people are reusing across a billion sites.
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Mar 13, 2019 16:04
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 This is what the community manager said on the discord. So even if 100% of the people refunded Epic gave them enough money to STILL be in the black.
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Mar 13, 2019 16:11
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Well, yeah it's a revenue guarantee. The downside is, of course, that all of the sales for an entire year on EGS are going to generate zero revenue, until they hit the guaranteed threshold and exceed it. Revenue guarantee's are way worse than a lump sum and it's hilarious that devs are going for them.
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Mar 13, 2019 16:16
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singateco posted:Community Manager for Snapshot just called someone in reddit "toxic cock-waffle" lmao He edited his post and people are calling him out on it now. Apparently, the dude has 0 PR training and was basically someone from the community who they decided to hire for the 'we have one of you guys to represent y'all'. The guy has been a trainwreck all throughout this and it's hilarious to see how he's throwing himself on a sword while loving Julian and other big bois who made this decision are playing Warframe all day for all to see on the discord. People started tagging them during the outrage yesterday evening and this dude started threatening people with bans if they start 'harassing' the devs. Why the gently caress even hang around for everyone to see when you are the one responsible for this thing? Especially when people are angry, want a response and you are away playing video games. FOR ALL TO SEE. Commissar Kip fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 16:25
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Subjunctive posted:You mean that they managed to log in? To an email provider, like gmail? I’m not following, I think. I mean if I read that post right, the attacker either successfully logged into epic or submitted a valid password/userid combo only to be blocked for suspicious activity. Followed by the poster got emails asking if the log in was them because it was from a different country. I could be reading it wrong. Xenoborg posted:Steam doesn't restrict dota2 to only Steam. The developer is free to put it on another platform if they wanted. It's developed and published by valve, the owners of steam. So it only being on steam is a deliberate restriction.
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Mar 13, 2019 16:30
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FoolyCharged posted:I mean if I read that post right, the attacker either successfully logged into epic or submitted a valid password/userid combo only to be blocked for suspicious activity. Followed by the poster got emails asking if the log in was them because it was from a different country. I could be reading it wrong. Yeah, I think you’re reading it wrong, and that the poster is inventing a connection between failed login attempts and spam filter effectiveness.
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Mar 13, 2019 16:34
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Commissar Kip posted:
This is very, very bad from a PR standpoint I mean they're basically saying to the people who gave them the money that allowed them to do their thing, "we don't need you anymore, so if you're not ok with our decisions you'll have to deal with it, get your cash back if you want and leave us alone, we know what's best" I feel offended and I didn't even back the game or anything  I mean this is what you'd expect from an EA, or another big fuckoff publisher that doesn't need a good rep... not from an indie studio that still is on their first bunch of games. Oh well, again, I'm not invested in this at all besides the hope to get a good game someday so  Edit: a guy on reddit has a nice take on it, quote:I think what makes this particularly galling is how they basically used us backers for an interest-free loan. They took our money, developed to the point where it was mature enough to attract external investors, then totally changed the game plan and fully expect us to withdraw our cash, since they're now out of the high-risk phase of the project that nobody but us actual fans would back and have a mature product that's been guarenteed external funding. TorakFade fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 16:55
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Oh boy Regional Pricing!       Oh...
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Mar 13, 2019 16:58
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took an 8% shot on a videogame kickstarter and the rookie shot himself in the head instead
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Mar 13, 2019 17:32
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seriously though why on earth would you give money to a Fig campaign, the kickstarting platform championed by pro scammers DoubleFine
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Mar 13, 2019 17:34
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I hope Apex Legends murders fortnite and makes it stay dead.
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Mar 13, 2019 17:41
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CharlestonJew posted:took an 8% shot on a videogame kickstarter and the rookie shot himself in the head instead I think it does suck that as that poster described it they seem to have used FIG as an interest free loan. But I agree with you that any crowdfunding thing is inherently a big risk and people (myself included) can fall into thinking of it as similar to buying a product and it really isn't.
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Mar 13, 2019 18:26
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CharlestonJew posted:seriously though why on earth would you give money to a Fig campaign, the kickstarting platform championed by pro scammers DoubleFine Because it's literally just Kickstarter except you can back at a tier where you get a percentage of revenue back if the game does well enough? There's nothing about Fig that's "a scam", it's just a curated version of Kickstarter with less exposure. The Phoenix Point issue would be the exact same problem if they had done their crowdfunding on Kickstarter. Fig only factors into it because if you've got actual investors, being this scummy looks even worse.
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Mar 13, 2019 18:31
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FIG in particular makes no claims to it being a product purchase. you are specifically investing for a return on sales later - a few jobs ago i coded a crowdfunding platform that we integrated into client websites and we specifically did not see FIG as a competitor because that sort of equity crowdfunding is an entirely different pitch to entirely different kinds of people, and governed by entirely different laws. i've refrained from making ominous rumblings about the fallout of all that because, as the laws were entirely different from the ones our more traditional "give us money and you get the thing when we make it" crowdfunding platform used, i'm unfamiliar with them.
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Mar 13, 2019 18:33
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there's also the fig issue of them telling people they'll get return on investment, but you're not legally considered an investor. so you don't get information on material business decisions like a year long exclusivity contract in return for a revenue guarantee.Commissar Kip posted:
 also there'll be an ama on the phoenix point subreddit if someone wants to find the gems according to https://phoenixpoint.info/epic
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Mar 13, 2019 18:41
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Commissar Kip posted:He edited his post and people are calling him out on it now. lmao at this whole thing The whole concept of backer discords or private fan discords etc. is the weirdest thing to me.
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Mar 13, 2019 18:46
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Oh come on this wasn't a planned scam. They were running out of money and people have to eat and pay rent. Someone offered them financial safety and they took it. They could have absolutely done something different and better but they were probably desperate. Julian is a lot of things but a conniving scammer isn't one of them.
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Mar 13, 2019 19:45
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Elephant Ambush posted:Oh come on this wasn't a planned scam. They were running out of money and people have to eat and pay rent. Someone offered them financial safety and they took it. They could have absolutely done something different and better but they were probably desperate. for the group in here i think this is a pretty easy thing to agree on, yeah. i'm certainly not convinced that julian is a scammer, if you need a point of reference on that just look at good ol chrissy r's exploits in the SCAM subforum. unfortunately angry people don't necessarily see it that way and the laws might basically be all "well you look like a duck and quack like a duck, so..."
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Mar 13, 2019 19:54
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The whole thing sucks and yeah I totally understand why they would take the deal but holy poo poo their messaging was bad, especially starting out with "no steam keys for backers sorry"
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Mar 13, 2019 20:10
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Boogalo posted:The whole thing sucks and yeah I totally understand why they would take the deal but holy poo poo their messaging was bad, especially starting out with "no steam keys for backers sorry"
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Mar 13, 2019 20:45
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ah it's been going on for nearly an hour: https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/b0psjl/ama_with_julian_gollop_and_david_kaye/ choice snippets so far: "Business Guy" quote:Q: What percentage of pre-orders do you currently estimate have requested a refund already? quote:Q: Why were backers and fig investors not consulted about this move? This has potential to upset backers and investors, and is not a transparent move. How can we trust you with any decisions going forward after this? quote:Q: Why are backers who purchased under the condition of getting a steam/gog key on launch not receiving one immediately like what happened with Metro? What changed between that exclusivity deal and yours? Julian Gollop quote:Q: I’d like to start off by saying it takes some balls to do this AMA, especially knowing that you’ll be walking into a forum where your decisions have caused, for the lack of a better word, outrage and a sense of betrayal from many backers. Thanks for doing this AMA, it’s the classy thing to do. quote:Q: Epic does not, so far as I'm aware, have a 'workshop' like Steam does. Does this affect the sense or extent to which PP will be mod-friendly, and can you clarify further yet how modding is expected to be facilitated?
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Mar 13, 2019 20:57
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Oh, you forgot the best part. THEY approached EPIC, not the other way around!quote:Q: Did you approach Epic, or did Epic approach you? So that puts things into a totally different perspective because it was a PLANNED thing. Not Epic offering them cash first. They actually went to Epic knowing the possible consumer backlash and just decided to go with it anyway  .Boogalo posted:The whole thing sucks and yeah I totally understand why they would take the deal but holy poo poo their messaging was bad, especially starting out with "no steam keys for backers sorry" They thus didn't take a deal. They asked for the deal. Automatically turning: Elephant Ambush posted:Oh come on this wasn't a planned scam. They were running out of money and people have to eat and pay rent. Someone offered them financial safety and they took it. They could have absolutely done something different and better but they were probably desperate. Into yes they loving decided to do it themselves which is now a conniving scammer thing to do. Being in a pickle and then getting approached with a deal and taking it is something I can understand. Actively seeking one out though... scammy as gently caress. Commissar Kip fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 21:07
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oh my god how do you gently caress up this bad
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Mar 13, 2019 21:14
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wow that's some gold right there. I haven't seen such a monumental fuckup in quite some time 
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Mar 13, 2019 21:17
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at least now we know why jake soloman played dumb about gollup wanting to be part of an xcom-alike in the modern day. he probably knew that gollup has awful sense.
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Mar 13, 2019 21:19
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I'm wasting some time reading the AMA on Reddit and hooo boy. They answered only the "easy" questions in a very formulaic and formal way (and still managed to screw it because they could not/would not outright lie, on some things at least.. see above snippets). A lot of the "tough" questions went unanswered, even the reasonable and civil, well-worded ones. I don't think these guys will go far unless the game is the second coming of Jesus or something like that edit: also, they won't refund on the original payment method but through a third party which you have to give your bank account info to, because "it's too late now for refunding on the original payment methods since it's been more than 2 years", totally discounting people who pledged late, or preordered on their site recently, or whatever other excellent reason one would have for wanting reimbursement on their card or payment method (which is basically any reason) They're going to get a ton of chargebacks. Would that be "risky" for them? Could the law take an interest in all these chargebacks and people screaming madly that they've been conned? vvv same but if the game is actually good and comes out on steam I might play it couple years from now TorakFade fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 21:33
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Kinda thinking my interest in this game is done, then. A shame. X-COM 2 was a huge disappointment for me and I was hoping this would scratch the Enemy Unknown-like itch. Guess not.
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Mar 13, 2019 21:33
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This doesn't prove that anything was planned. It is highly likely they reached out to a bunch of digital distributors looking for money and Epic was the first to say yes. They were pretty obviously forced into an NDA or they wouldn't get any money. This really sucks though.
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Mar 13, 2019 21:34
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Elephant Ambush posted:This doesn't prove that anything was planned. It is highly likely they reached out to a bunch of digital distributors looking for money and Epic was the first to say yes. They could have said no all throughout that process. I don't know how that turns into "it doesn't prove anything was planned". According to that logic, I can just "oopsie" my way through life. Oops, accidentally accepted a contract forcing me to break my contractual obligations and breaking EU consumer law. gently caress me right?
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Mar 13, 2019 21:43
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wow, 3% cancellations. that's almost 23k they'll lose. If you figure that compared to getting an up front lump sum from a distributor they might have to..... not change anything at all?
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Mar 13, 2019 21:46
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TorakFade posted:They're going to get a ton of chargebacks. Would that be "risky" for them? Could the law take an interest in all these chargebacks and people screaming madly that they've been conned? if your chargeback rate is over 2%, it is considered high and consequences start happening. however, that's 2% over a 3-month rolling window, and chargeback consequences are mostly conducted at the payment level rather than the law itself. Payment companies will start forcing you to keep higher reserves, delay payments to your bank accounts, or simply refuse to do business with you. even if they had like 50% of their backers charge back, the worst that would happen directly is they wouldn't be able to get payment processing done through their company anymore (which doesn't affect them, since they don't take payments in an ongoing way in the first place). i wrote the payment integrations for Stripe among other integrations for our platform and had to aggregate chargeback data so we had some automatic backoffs for lovely merchants so this is something i ended up digging into in detail. the chargeback rate could theoretically be used as part of a class action suit to justify the size of a suit though. Elephant Ambush posted:This doesn't prove that anything was planned. It is highly likely they reached out to a bunch of digital distributors looking for money and Epic was the first to say yes. there is a humongous difference between seeking out these deals and being offered them, both ethically and legally. in the former case you could argue that you could kind of plead ignorance or incompetence, because you were trusting your opposite number. in the latter case you were actively courting these things and it is considered your responsibility to know what your parameters are. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 21:51
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