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Vernacular posted:The 2-to-3 swap is actually almost always a Good Thing, with turnouts like this being aberrations, so they should keep doing it. The minority tribe still ends up being steamrolled more often than not
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Mar 14, 2019 22:26
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Rarity posted:The minority tribe still ends up being steamrolled more often than not And 2-to-2 splits somehow remedy this? Have a look back at the second half of the Survivor catalogue. The seasons with a vanilla 2-to-2 split were not as good, and I don't think it's just correlation over causation. We're talking One World, Caramoan, Redemption Island, BvW 1 and 2, South Pacific, etc. It's no coincidence that the majority of recent seasons have had more fluid tribe dynamics and thus higher entertainment value.
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Mar 15, 2019 00:10
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I like the 2 to 3 tribe splits. It gives some fun and interesting small number of player tribals before the merge. Although, it's probably a bit of a fail in seasons like this, where 1 tribe just sucks and can't even get the advantage in a 3 tribe split. I mean, there still is 9 players in the game that haven't been to tribal council at this point...
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Mar 15, 2019 01:03
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For me, I think Wendy is a dangerous ally because she very much marches to the beat of her own drum. I imagine a standard conversation might go: "Hey Wendy, I'm thinking of voting out Aurora tonight." "No way, I like Aurora! Let's vote Victoria." "...Wendy, we know Victoria has an idol. Aurora is the only safe move." "I don't care! I like her better so I'm not voting her yet." At first I thought it was dogged loyalty like to Reem, but it might just be 'she only does what she wants', like with the chickens, and if she doesn't like the move, she won't swallow her pride and play along.
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Mar 15, 2019 01:04
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It's certainly possible she'd be that kind of ally, but I think fairly we haven't seen any evidence of that yet. Her siding with Reem and Keith was obviously the tribe Dynamics and Wentworth's crew were pointing them out as outcasts right way. And her trying to target Wentworth made not only game sense because she was a target but very nearly worked and had a bunch of peoples noses open. She's a massive gamble and id be terrified to work with her without some kind of test she could stick to the plan. But as far as I remember she has stuck to the plan and been loyal to her people so far. I don't know if that would hold up but she's not Chaos Kassing so far. That being said the only reason you should be considering Wendy as an ally is if you don't have better options. Because at best, she's a wild card.
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Mar 15, 2019 01:29
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STAC Goat posted:My guess is they have the means to build a shelter and fish and stuff but for one or two hungry people its gonna be hard. Especially since the early people voted out don't tend to be the "hunter/gatherer" types. The fact that broheim shows up and is apparently the first one to grab the fishing gear and try and go catch some little babyfish seems to indicate Keith and Reem are just scrub survivors. I can totally see them just laying about in the basic shelture structure they started with, starving themselves until the cast legally has to give them some amount of food and water. I also thought it was funny how much was trying to be like "you can't sit with us karen" but instantly turned around the second she saw he had brought food. Broheim was chill about it, seemed like he already figured out these 3 are going to have to end up as a crew of misfits by necessity anyway. It's more funny that Reem is trying to gatekeep at all. Regarding Wendy, seems like she could set herself up as a carry if she managed to actually build some loyalties with at least 2 people. If her tribe can avoid enough tribals before merge, seems like they'll find a person or two to blindside first.
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Mar 15, 2019 01:55
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STAC Goat posted:Now Wardog's a terrible person. But that's just because he calls himself "The Wardog" and tattooed it on his body. I wish someone on the season kept innocently calling him “the Warthog” until he went insane like Frank “Grimey” Grimes.
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Mar 15, 2019 02:10
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We have no idea how much Reem or Keith might have tried to fish or anything else. We just know Chris was successful. Most Survivors just seem woefully unsuccessful at fishing. And Keith can't even swim. Theyre clearly sucky Survivors but not necessarily for lack of effort. Also I thougt Reem was pretty clearly defending Chris to Keith the morning after he showed how. She said something like "he's just processing it all". They just gave him some light poo poo about being backstabbed considering he had outed them. It seemed pretty good natured to me. I don't even like them but none of that felt super fair.
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Mar 15, 2019 02:12
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I've avoided all spoilers and have been racking my brain figuring out what the big twist is going to be for the EoE losers so that this isn't just Redemption Island. I just had the awful realization that there isn't going to be a twist and it's just going to be "Find the immunity idol." Goddamn Jeff, how did I fall for this idiocy.
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Mar 15, 2019 03:27
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They have to stay on that island straight through to the next season of Survivor and play again without going home
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Mar 15, 2019 04:24
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Oh man, the startling realization that Wendy is Shambo 2.0.
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Mar 15, 2019 05:53
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Vernacular posted:And 2-to-2 splits somehow remedy this? I think 2-to-2 is better than 2-to-3 because the bigger tribes give the players a little more room to maneuver. The tribes in a swap-to-3 season are so small that you *maybe* get one exciting vote and then if the tribe goes to TC again it's always a super boring down-the-line vote. And swapping to 3 smaller groups increases the odds of one tribe being inherently weaker and thus losing most of the challenges anyway. I think 3-to-2 is actually the best because it is very unlikely any pre-swap tribe has a majority on a post-swap tribe, so each tribe is bound to be interesting; with 2-to-2 or 2-to-3 usually each tribe will have a majority consisting of a pre-swap tribe (unless it's exactly tied or, like this weird swap, a post-swap tribe consists entirely of members of a pre-swap tribe) so if the majority tribe doesn't want to budge there's not much the minority can do. In terms of comparing seasons from a historical perspective, two of the seasons you listed (Redemption Island and South Pacific) didn't even have swaps, and the post-swap stuff in BvW1 was pretty good! I think the producers got really lucky that the swap-to-3 worked out in an exciting way the first two times they did it (31 and 33) mostly because different tribes kept losing Immunity and the players were playing aggressively. In 34, 35, and 36 all of the post-swap tribals were pretty boring by-the-numbers votes with little suspense except when there was an idol involved. I guess the swap in 37 worked produced 2 out of 3 good episodes, but I'll chalk that up more to the great cast than a good format. Also even in the seasons were this type of swap worked out well, any time a post-swap tribe had to go to a *second* Tribal it was a boring vote even if the first was interesting (Varner getting voted out in 31, Lyrsa in 37). With only like 4 people voting there's only so many ways the show can even pretend the vote can go.
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Mar 15, 2019 06:51
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"You know what would give us a lot of energy? A chicken." https://i.imgur.com/teETrFl.mp4 "I think you just cut the head off and then you boil it, I think, and then the feathers come out easy." https://i.imgur.com/j71yIkQ.mp4 "You don't think she took it to save her chicken?" "No, that would be insane." "That would be psychotic." "I took the flint!" https://i.imgur.com/28YgW4D.mp4 Zesty fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Mar 15, 2019 |
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Mar 15, 2019 07:55
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My biggest actual gripe with the chickens is that Wendy was the only person on that beach to have contributed to winning said chickens. The sense of entitlement coming from the others left a bad taste in my mouth.
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Mar 15, 2019 08:34
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I don't think it's unreasonable at all to take the advantage where you can get it. The goal right now is to not lose immunity challenges. If you're on Survivor, eat the chickens immediately. After the reward challenge but before the immunity challenge. You will never ever get eggs.
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Mar 15, 2019 09:24
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I did not enjoy that tribal at all.
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Mar 15, 2019 12:04
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Zesty posted:I don't think it's unreasonable at all to take the advantage where you can get it. Perhaps not. That's a production problem, and I'd really really love to see a pure vanilla season with impotent idol hunting sometime soon. Pretty much everybody involved was acting like a huge jerk though.
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Mar 15, 2019 14:52
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STAC Goat posted:We have no idea how much Reem or Keith might have tried to fish or anything else. We just know Chris was successful. Most Survivors just seem woefully unsuccessful at fishing. And Keith can't even swim. Theyre clearly sucky Survivors but not necessarily for lack of effort. Yeah, Keith was the only one who really seemed like he was gatekeeping to me. Honestly he's up there for worst casting ever for me, he just seems like he's wholly unprepared for the game in literally every aspect.
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Mar 15, 2019 15:13
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A "pure vanilla" season might be taking it a bit far for me but I'd love them to just skip the swap once or twice, so people know they can't rely on a swap happening... I think with a cast full of decent players you'll still get action post-merge
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Mar 15, 2019 16:48
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mancalamania posted:In terms of comparing seasons from a historical perspective, two of the seasons you listed (Redemption Island and South Pacific) didn't even have swaps, and the post-swap stuff in BvW1 was pretty good! I think the producers got really lucky that the swap-to-3 worked out in an exciting way the first two times they did it (31 and 33) mostly because different tribes kept losing Immunity and the players were playing aggressively. In 34, 35, and 36 all of the post-swap tribals were pretty boring by-the-numbers votes with little suspense except when there was an idol involved. I guess the swap in 37 worked produced 2 out of 3 good episodes, but I'll chalk that up more to the great cast than a good format. I definitely misread the wiki pages for those seasons so my bad there, and I’m totally a fan of 3 original tribe seasons. That’s the ideal format. But I don’t really buy your “room to maneuver” argument (is there really that much of a difference between a 7 person tribe and 5 person tribe in that regard?), and I think you’re putting too much emphasis on the few episodes following the swap rather than looking at how it influences whole season dynamics. The point of the 2>3 is to create more permutations for possible post-merge relationships in a way that is harder to optimize with 2>2 swaps. It also leads to better challenges and more idols, which is good. Plus, if you want to lean on the “good vs bad casting” argument to discredit the role of tribeswaps in 31/33/37, you’re conveniently forgetting that bad casting played a large part in the failures of 34/36. Basically I think we’re seeing the worst-case scenario of 2>3 swaps this season, but I still don’t see how 2>2 maximizes more interesting outcomes than 2>3 (though like Fast Luck just said, throwing a curveball and scrapping the swap altogether to keep people on their toes could be interesting). Vernacular fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Mar 15, 2019 |
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Mar 15, 2019 17:12
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IcePhoenix posted:Yeah, Keith was the only one who really seemed like he was gatekeeping to me. He's a kid. Besides that one dude a couple of seasons ago (Michael?) when they cast a kid they're usually not terribly impressive. I mean, look at Lauren reacting so hard and missing her parents. It's just a tough ordeal for anyone and a teenager like Keith is probably just unprepared for it even in small ways like "ok, we had our fun giving Chris some poo poo, now let it go because it's just a game".
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Mar 15, 2019 17:37
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the last two non swap seasons were Redemption Island and South Pacific and those were straight up pagongings after the merge. by that metric, never don't swap.
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Mar 15, 2019 19:57
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STAC Goat posted:look at Lauren reacting so hard and missing her parents. Oh this reminds me of something I wanted to chime in on during parents chat but couldn't at the time. So I live really close to my mom (we actually work at the same place, though we're on different campuses) and also do the "I can go forever without talking to her" thing, but I can absolutely understand how the castaways feel about missing family so quickly, because even though I don't talk to family super often, I can whenever I want to. It's just a short text/e-mail/phone call away and I can talk to them about whatever. But on Survivor that safety net is gone. If you need some emotional support for whatever reason, be it a breakdown all the way down to just wanting to hear their voice, that option is gone. And I think the very first time you feel that need, even if it's one that you might normally brush off and not reach out were you at home, the absence of the ability to call them probably hits really hard.
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Mar 15, 2019 20:07
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Yeah, I think that's a big problem with fans judging Survivors with a lot of the stuff they go through and putting it in real world context. "Like, no, I can go X days without much food" or "I've lost sleep" or "I've been cold" or whatever. As you said, its probably not that Lauren can't go a couple of weeks without talking to her parents, its that her family has always been her support network and people she could trust implicitly and now she's in this stressful and difficult situation where she can't really trust anyone and she's longing for that. Its probably gonna hit a young player like Lauren or Keith more because they've had less life experience and time away from that family safety net to find other ways to cope and adjust and rely on themselves. But there's a reason EVERY SINGLE Survivor loses their poo poo and breaks down with the loved ones visit. Survivor just fucks with you physically, emotionally, and psychologically and seeing one of the people in your life you wholly and completely trust and know will support you has to be an oasis in the dessert.
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Mar 15, 2019 20:14
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Lone Goat posted:the last two non swap seasons were Redemption Island and South Pacific and those were straight up pagongings after the merge. by that metric, never don't swap. The meta has evolved so much since then. We needed swaps more then, we don't need them anymore! I'm not saying cancel swaps, either, just throw in a no-swap season or two and see what happens and how it affects future seasons too. Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Mar 15, 2019 |
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Mar 15, 2019 20:16
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My original come was less about the outcome of the 2 to 3 swaps and more the predictability. I think 3 to 2 tribes is my favourite but I’m fine with anything really, just not for 7 seasons in a row
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Mar 15, 2019 22:49
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#TeamWardog
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Mar 16, 2019 04:18
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Bigass Moth posted:#TeamWardog  I mean, I guess he makes pretty good TV but seriously
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Mar 16, 2019 05:39
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ApplesandOranges posted:Oh man, the startling realization that Wendy is Shambo 2.0. I think Shambo’s weirdness was her legitimate personality, whereas I think a lot of Wendy’s weirdness (although not all of it) is an act and bid for attention.
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Mar 16, 2019 07:28
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STAC Goat posted:We have no idea how much Reem or Keith might have tried to fish or anything else. We just know Chris was successful. Most Survivors just seem woefully unsuccessful at fishing. And Keith can't even swim. They're clearly sucky Survivors but not necessarily for lack of effort. I just rewatched it and you're right, it was more Keith being bitter and Reem was actually just peacekeeping. I think I am just desperate for drama and blew up that situation in my head. Thanks for calling me out, that wasn't fair.
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Mar 16, 2019 22:47
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The Dennis System posted:I think Shambo’s weirdness was her legitimate personality, whereas I think a lot of Wendy’s weirdness (although not all of it) is an act and bid for attention. In fairness we don't know these people but "bid for attention" seems like it might well be Wendy's usual personally
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Mar 16, 2019 22:59
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Why else would you decide you're vegetarian literally when starting on Survivor? If I were to go out there I wouldn't be very happy eating any fish, but I'm not going to pretend that I wouldn't demolish a steak in order to- whatever her motivation is.
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Mar 16, 2019 23:05
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I still think its totally possible that for the first time in her life Wendy was confronted with her dinner alive and walking around and couldn't get herself around to the idea of killing it to eat it. Like that part I'm happy to give her the benefit of the doubt on. It doesn't change how we judge her actions. It certainly wouldn't have been more right for her to steal the flint and release the chickens if she was a lifelong vegetarian. I don't really think its worth worrying about what the Survivors are doing for the cameras and what they're not. Aubrey crying about finding an idol could have been faked for the camera. Wardog could have made up his nickname (and got it tattooed) to get more attention. They're all attention whores. That's the baseline we're working with so I just call it even most of the time.
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Mar 16, 2019 23:41
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I've said it before but if Survivor was somehow NOT on TV, I'd apply in a heartbeat but I am the opposite of an attention whore
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Mar 16, 2019 23:48
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The Bloop posted:I've said it before but if Survivor was somehow NOT on TV, I'd apply in a heartbeat but I am the opposite of an attention whore It's too bad forums Survivor died. That was a great way to scratch that particular itch without having to make oneself into any kind of public figure. Like I guess you're not camping, and the prize isn't 7 figures (6 after Obama's done with it) but the game is the game.
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Mar 17, 2019 00:55
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Thanks, Obama
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Mar 17, 2019 01:05
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The Bloop posted:
He's like Tony without the interesting parts of Tony.
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Mar 18, 2019 19:52
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Propaganda Machine posted:It's too bad forums Survivor died. That was a great way to scratch that particular itch without having to make oneself into any kind of public figure. Are there any links to some good Forums games? I'd be interested to see how it plays out when it's online-only.
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Mar 18, 2019 20:10
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lol @ not thinking Wardog is wonderful
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Mar 18, 2019 20:32
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PopZeus posted:Are there any links to some good Forums games? I'd be interested to see how it plays out when it's online-only. Awful Big Brother 1 has imo the best story arc out of any of them and I'm not just saying that cause I was in it (the OP spoils the final 2 so scroll past it) Rarity fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Mar 18, 2019 |
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Mar 18, 2019 20:53
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