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The Butcher posted:Which is kinda cool in a way. All my  is on the right wing position shifting to "now that we're geo-engineering we no longer need emission reductions!"
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Mar 14, 2019 23:00
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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If you think about it carbon emissions are also a form of geo-engineering, which you claim to support. So which is it, smart guy?
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Mar 14, 2019 23:06
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Well it’s good to see SOMEONE at the National Post isn’t talking about SNC-Lavalin!
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Mar 14, 2019 23:30
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I’ve sorta just embraced that we’re all totally hosed and that there’s very little that can be done to change it without putting yourself in the sights of people that would absolutely crush you to continue on with their merry lifestyle We’re dead from climate poo poo in 20-30 years and by the time the political will to get it done comes together it’ll be far too late. E: Like I'm not full on a no-hope climate nihilist, I want to vote, volunteer and do what I can, just that if somebody's going to continuously vote for self-destructive poo poo and cancel me out anyway, rock on, have fun explaining to your kids in 20 years why you hosed everything up for them. TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Mar 14, 2019 |
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Mar 14, 2019 23:33
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PittTheElder posted:All my That has been the reason why scientists have been so reluctant to talk about it generally, but let's face it: 1) If we don't develop some kind of global strategy for geo-engineering, nations that are literally disappearing underwater will try anything with what remaining resources they have. 2) If we don't take certain kinds of geo-engineering off the table, develop international treaties to limit what can be done, then deranged billionaires are going to go ahead and do them anyway.
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Mar 15, 2019 00:08
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Dreylad posted:That has been the reason why scientists have been so reluctant to talk about it generally, but let's face it: Yeah I saw an excellent talk by David Keith (the scientist) like a decade ago, probably one of the leading academics in the field. He pointed out that it was an absolutely terrible idea, with all sorts of terrible potential side effects, but realistically it'll probably be our the option we'll take, because it's cheap. The political angle is particularly severe; the question I remember him posing is "what if China decides it wants to set the thermostat 2 degrees lower than everyone else? They have all the resources they need to do this themselves, and what is anyone going to do about it?
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Mar 15, 2019 00:17
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PittTheElder posted:Yeah I saw an excellent talk by David Keith (the scientist) like a decade ago, probably one of the leading academics in the field. He pointed out that it was an absolutely terrible idea, with all sorts of terrible potential side effects, but realistically it'll probably be our the option we'll take, because it's cheap. Maybe you've already read it, but Gwynne Dyer's Climate Wars deals with the political aspect. If you don't want to get the book, there's a 4 part series on IDEAS about it here.
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Mar 15, 2019 00:27
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Geo engineering is going to mean sea walls, and a shitload of guns to murder climate refugees
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Mar 15, 2019 01:13
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I went to a talk by Gwynn Dyer and during the Q&A some guy kept trying to get him to agree that geoengineering holds promise and he was having none of it lol
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Mar 15, 2019 01:23
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Ever since I read a bunch of articles on Carbon Engineering and their pilot project plant in Squamish I've been wondering why the Canadian and other governments don't throw a massive amount of support behind it and similar ideas. I was so curious I actually got in touch with my MP (Lloyd Longfield) and asked. Apparently the government is aware of it, and has invested $1.5 million into the project. That seems like a paltry sum for something that seems exactly what we need right now. For those that don't know, Carbon Engineering has a pilot plant that pulls CO2 from the air and then combines the carbon with hydrogen harvested through electrolysis, which allows them to create a variety of hydrocarbons like gasoline, jet fuel, etc. Provided that the power for the plant and the electrolysis comes from a renewable or nuclear source, the hydrocarbons produced are carbon neutral. They can also just sequester this carbon, but carbon is useful. I know it's a private company and everything they state needs to be treated with a grain of salt, but the coverage of the plant suggests that the technology can be scaled up readily, and that carbon can be removed from the air for about $100 a ton, and that if it is scaled up enough, gasoline produced from the process can be sold for as little as $1/liter. Again, providing scaling up of the plants. So why aren't we doing anything with this? Someone earlier in this thread (or maybe the C-Spam one) said that a politician should try and reinvigorate Albertan voters by getting their chests pumped up at the idea of being Canada's energy leader but with renewables. Well, why don't we leave the oil in the ground as much as is possible and use this tech to create carbon-neutral hydrocarbons as we need them? Hell, build nuclear plants to power these other plants and to power cities and towns around them. Or use solar, geothermal, wind, whatever makes the most sense for the area in question. Carbon neutral isn't the same as carbon negative, but it seems like a giant's step in the right direction. And we already have the know-how. To me, this seems like it could be a Green New Deal for Canada. Lots of jobs, lots of energy. Much less carbon going into the air. Less and less as vehicles become more fuel efficient and cleaner. So why aren't we doing this? What is the obvious flaw staring me in the face that I'm not seeing? Aside, of course, from the political will to do it.
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Mar 15, 2019 01:33
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vyelkin posted:https://twitter.com/AlexCKaufman/status/1105853650432225280 This is really bad news for most tows/villages in northern Canada. Yes I know 99% of Canadians dont even know or care about the indigenous populations up there but it would be nice to maybe start planning for this so we dont end up with climate refugees coming from other provinces within our own bloody country.
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Mar 15, 2019 01:34
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Faded Mars posted:So why aren't we doing this? What is the obvious flaw staring me in the face that I'm not seeing? Aside, of course, from the political will to do it. "Levelized costs of $94 to $232 per ton CO2 from the atmosphere" The federal carbon price is ~15 USD, less than a sixth that low range. We've got a lot of carbon pricing to go before carbon capture at 100 USD/ton becomes economical.
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Mar 15, 2019 01:48
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"We could have saved the world. There just wasn't enough profit in it."
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Mar 15, 2019 01:54
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Salean posted:Geo engineering is going to mean sea walls, and a shitload of guns to murder climate refugees That's adaptation, not geo engineering.
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Mar 15, 2019 01:55
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Faded Mars posted:"We could have saved the world. There just wasn't enough profit in it." Well no the point is that if this plan can suck out 10 megaton for a cost of 1 billion, there's thousands of alternative projects that'll be able to avoid emitting much more than that for the same cost.
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Mar 15, 2019 02:00
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Thousands of alternatives such as...? Ones that allow us to still produce hydrocarbons necessary to various industrial pursuits for a net neutral of new carbon in the air such as? How many of these projects can be initiated in time before that 12 year or so period we have to prevent the worst of climate change runs out? Can they also provide the impetus for a reinvigoration of our energy infrastructure that will produce electricity, jobs, and less carbon going into the air? I mean, I'm looking through the list Longfield pointed me to and while there appear to be several viable carbon sequestration projects this one and ones similar to it seem like the ticket to give us a jump on a green economy. Additionally, many of the news articles suggest that the expected $100/ton is an incredible achievement, given that projections expected this type of process to cost anywhere from $500-$1000 a ton. Hell, quick Google search of "low cost carbon sequestration" brings up articles on Carbon Engineering in the first page of results. Although there does seem to be interest in some Japanese process whereby carbon can be captured and used as a catalyst to produce electricity. But the article I found doesn't actually give any numbers for it. It's not like if Canada were to spend a billion dollars to remove 10 megatons of carbon that that money would be lost to the ether. What about all the jobs that billion dollars creates? The infrastructure? Although I suppose at the moment I'm just getting caught up in this side argument about this one particular technology. As you have put it, there are "thousands" of projects aimed at this. My ultimate questions are: what is taking so drat long? Why aren't we doing anything? Can't they see the clock is ticking?
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Mar 15, 2019 02:25
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TheKingofSprings posted:I’ve sorta just embraced that we’re all totally hosed and that there’s very little that can be done to change it without putting yourself in the sights of people that would absolutely crush you to continue on with their merry lifestyle As much as I really do think we need to do infinitely more when it comes to becoming a green society, I start to glaze over when people start with the crazy "20 years and were dead" poo poo. Its the same talking points that we had 30 years ago.
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Mar 15, 2019 02:25
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The Butcher posted:That's adaptation, not geo engineering. Think bigger and you get into geo-engineering territory.
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Mar 15, 2019 02:45
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It's one thing to do carbon capture on a small scale. It's another to deploy large scale facilities. Moreover, as the carbon gas concentration drops, the reaction equilibrium shifts :| Not trying to be a party pooper or anything. Just stating technology isn't magic. Yet.
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Mar 15, 2019 03:30
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On the plus side, if a bunch of forces beyond my control are going to destroy the world in two or three decades anyway I feel much less bad about smoking.
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Mar 15, 2019 03:42
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I really have no idea how the climate change crisis will play out, but the prognosis isn't good. It isn't just the direct technical issues of addressing climate change that are problematic, though they always seem to be understated. We are experiencing societal crises that both got us into this mess and prevents us from fixing it. We live in a failing society that has increasing difficulty building or doing anything that doesn't enrich the wealthy; capital must have its due. Throw international politics into the mix and I'm not seeing any possibility of a resolution. It all seems a chaotic mess that makes any prediction impossible. Fortunately I'm Canadian, therefore used to disappointment. Still don't think I can bring myself to vote for Elizabeth May though, particularly given my pro-nuclear pro-gmo stances.
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Mar 15, 2019 03:43
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principal skinner meme with doug fords portrait transposed on it. Does taking away funding to school boards, enforcing a hiring freeze on new teachers, and cutting specialized programming impact quality of education? No, it's the cellphones that are wrong. I cant make political memes  Edit: victim of Ontario conservative influence on education.
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Mar 15, 2019 03:52
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Faded Mars posted:Although I suppose at the moment I'm just getting caught up in this side argument about this one particular technology. As you have put it, there are "thousands" of projects aimed at this. My ultimate questions are: what is taking so drat long? Why aren't we doing anything? Can't they see the clock is ticking? Yeah the problem is that we basically know exactly what we as a society/planet need to do and just aren't doing it. The problem isn't that we're missing a technical solution, there's no one weird trick, it's just that people really don't want to change how they live their lives and governments don't want to (or really, can't) force them there. The tiny gas tax increase in France last year was enough to ignite a months-long crisis, imagine if the a government actually took real measures.
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Mar 15, 2019 03:52
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zapplez posted:As much as I really do think we need to do infinitely more when it comes to becoming a green society, I start to glaze over when people start with the crazy "20 years and were dead" poo poo. Its the same talking points that we had 30 years ago. Yeah I mean right there it's saying 3-5c for the arctic is already locked in after 30 years. That's going to have major impacts on the whole planet, and a lot of people will die, but it's mostly going to be the very poorest people already living in marginally environmentally supportable places. I'd expect for most Canadians, life will be much less comfortable and things will be a lot more hosed up in a lot of ways, but it's not a human extinction thing in any of our lifetimes no matter how bad it gets. As was somewhat mentioned, worst case, the Musk's and Bezos' go live on glittering space stations, the rest of us live in caves. Humans ain't going nowhere. It's just going to loving suck.
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Mar 15, 2019 04:02
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Or maybe to put it another way, we aren't all going to die, but our quality of life will.
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Mar 15, 2019 04:05
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In terms of climate change alone Canada is probably let off the easiest in terms of effects. International actions and migrations are another matter. Weird random fact: The vast majority of the Earth's fresh water is actually locked in antarctic glaciers. Be concerned when nations want to break agreements to extract it.
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Mar 15, 2019 04:12
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While you guys are arguing about carbon prices, Donate to a needy carbon cause We all know Trudeau is going to gently caress something up and hand a minority to Harper's less cool friend
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Mar 15, 2019 04:17
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Its probably more like 50 years till the climate is really in pandemic mode. The problem is in 20 years when the big recession hits and populists fight against it even stronger and hand out lies like "but our growing season is longer so this is better"
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Mar 15, 2019 04:25
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Dreylad posted:Maybe you've already read it, but Gwynne Dyer's Climate Wars deals with the political aspect. If you don't want to get the book, there's a 4 part series on IDEAS about it here. I have not, but gently caress yeah IDEAS link.  Faded Mars posted:Carbon Engineering... Well there's two things here: 1) Reclaimed carbon like that is still vastly more expensive than 'fresh' fossil fuels, if you will. So there's no economic incentive to use it to produce useful fuel. 2) If you do have a viable carbon reclamation technology, you absolutely cannot turn around and burn the fuel again, that defeats the entire purpose. Carbon neutral is not enough, we need something that is strongly carbon negative. Since you can't sell the fuel, no private venture will fund it, and no public entity will want to run it either, due to the free rider problem. You run into all the exact same problems where entrenched business lobbies to protect their industry, and there is no money and thus political will to make the long term better choice. e: if we were still living in a 350 ppm world, then this technology would be amazing. But we don't. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Mar 15, 2019 |
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Mar 15, 2019 05:05
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Carbon capture can be useful in industries where there is presently no viable alternative at any cost, though. Consider air travel: we can't, at this point, do it without carbon-based fuels on any kind of useful scale. Carbon-neutral ain't perfect, but it's a massive loving improvement, and as good as we're likely to get at this point.
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Mar 15, 2019 05:21
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PT6A posted:Carbon capture can be useful in industries where there is presently no viable alternative at any cost, though. We do need to get to at least slightly carbon-negative, in order to allow the build-up of carbon to reverse. Because of the time lag of the system, the full effects of this much carbon in the air is not being felt. So even if we stop and hold here, a bunch of cities, island nations and ecosystems are going to disappear Luckily, eliminating emissions from ground transit and power production is both possible and would accomplish a negative-carbon balance. The planet has the capacity to absorb more carbon than we were making before the industrial era, we just spiked way over that threshold. If we want plastics, air travel, and pretty much any kind of mining and chemical processing we will always be emitting carbon, but it's much more feasible to control just those emissions than the emissions of billions of cars, trucks, ships and fossil-fuel power plants. Unluckily, we're rapidly approaching the day where industrial sabotage or total economic collapse are the only options left to rip the fossil-fuel shareholders off their addiction before their stubbornness literally kills most of us.
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Mar 15, 2019 07:11
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Government scientists warn about safety, impacts of proposed cormorant hunt I guess I don't follow this sort of stuff enough because this is my first time hearing about it. I'm not particularly anti-hunting but I feel like the psychos who think they can't kill enough as it is and want to be able to kill 50 more of just one species per day for most of the year should be the ones put on a watchlist rather than leftist activists
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Mar 15, 2019 13:23
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Scheer, via twitter: Practitioners of an unnamed religion were attacked and that's bad. https://twitter.com/AndrewScheer/status/1106391721498173440 The rest of twitter: Where was this respect for Islam when you were hanging around with white supremacists and flipping your poo poo over a non-binding motion against Islamophobia? https://twitter.com/BevAzevedo/status/1106519588617936896 https://twitter.com/ARCCollective/status/1106426035011088384
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Mar 15, 2019 14:08
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flakeloaf posted:Scheer, via twitter: Practitioners of an unnamed religion were attacked and that's bad. On the subject, Bashir Mohamed has connected one of Scheer's campaign people and CPC hack Stephen Taylor to some particularly virulent alts on Reddit. This is a bunch of primary research and hasn't been corroborated by a news outlet, so take it with a grain of salt I suppose.
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Mar 15, 2019 14:37
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How do we go about banning every loving semi-automatic firearm in the country. Who do I petition to start this poo poo off. I used to be pretty pro-gun, "legal gun owners!!!" and all that poo poo. I'm done. If you can't hunt with a bolt-action/Lever-action/slide action rifle/shotgun, get better at hunting. Nobody should have a pistol unless under very specific circumstances. 5 round mags don't mean poo poo when you can drive to the US and get a 50rd magpul for 20 bucks at any gun store. I've finally found my breaking point on "giving a gently caress about something on the internet" it seems. And it's telling people to like and subscribe to pewdiepie while murdering people in a place of worship.
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Mar 15, 2019 14:42
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Apparently it's secondary school classes that are going to be getting rammed. Some choice bits: quote:High school classes will grow to an average of 28 students, up from the current 22, though class caps in the early elementary years will remain, Thompson announced as part of a package of system reforms. So this is gonna gently caress over a lot of students increasing the average class size by nearly 30%. In university-stream students this means less time for students who need to do well in order to be accepted to and prepared for desired programs, or students that would be on the spoke of failing are straight-up boned. Applied/College stream students are going to get boned even harder because those classes are typically smaller already, and those students need more one-on-one time. Plus having experienced a grade 11 college math class with 31, a grade 10 academic math class with 33 and a grade 11 physics class with 39, I'll tell you right now those classrooms can't hold any more students. That class of 39 I had to have students sitting at the lab benches. Additionally, these items are collectively negotiated and I don't think they can even do this. I'd have to look at our CBA for that. quote:Some details had already been revealed, including a ban on cellphones in classrooms unless teachers require them for instructional purposes, as well as a “back to basics” math plan with training for teachers. I banged on about cellphones earlier but the back to basics math is something that's a bit ridiculous - sitting in a desk doing skill-and-drill stuff is not particularly valuable compared to skills like problem-solving, tool selection, investigation, interpretation or communication. Mental computation is a handy skill and there's no reason why we can't work on it, but it shouldn't be the focus. quote:Provincial math tests show scores have been dropping in recent years, which is a trend affecting many countries. gently caress EQAO and gently caress standardized testing right in their loving ears. quote:Thompson’s plan, which comes into effect fully in the fall of 2021, will provide boards with funding for a “math learning lead,” and numeracy supports for 1,000 struggling schools. These amount to roughly one-quarter of all elementary and secondary schools. More poo poo we already do - my board has an instructional program leader for math and she's dynamite, and there's plenty of supports through her and others. quote:All new teachers will have to pass a mandatory math exam before they can be certified, and the province’s 16,000 middle-school teachers will have to earn additional qualifications in math. What the poo poo? Middle school teachers who may very well never be teaching math? What is this test going to look like? Then there's requiring an AQ and if they're going to do that they drat well better be ponying up the dough instead of it being at the teacher's expense. gently caress this government. gently caress. E: AND ANOTHER THING quote:E-learning REQUIRED online courses. Because all teachers do is deliver content, and we don't need to have our students working WITH people to learn. It's not like teachers design meaningful, realistic tasks or poo poo like that. Education is content delivery, not intellectual and skills development. Motherfucking gently caress. Silver Spooner fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Mar 15, 2019 |
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Mar 15, 2019 14:58
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MA-Horus posted:How do we go about banning every loving semi-automatic firearm in the country. Who do I petition to start this poo poo off. I strongly suspect that if you were to make a Venn diagram of "people who want unrestricted semi-automatic rifles", "people with armalite logos in their avatars", "yellow vests", "posts about white genocide", and "islamic panic" you would wind up with a series of concentric circles.
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Mar 15, 2019 15:02
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MA-Horus posted:How do we go about banning every loving semi-automatic firearm in the country. Who do I petition to start this poo poo off. I'm pretty fed up with this poo poo and shared the same kind of sentiment after the Quebec shooting, but honestly the next 4chan psycho virgin who wants to get famous on CNN will just a shotgun instead and have similar causalities. And if somehow he cant get a shotgun, he will just rent a uhaul like the other incel guy. I'm more leaning towards crazy big brother monitoring at this point. Have a bigger team of CSIS monitoring 4chan and reddit incel etc and identifying the obsessive fantasy shitposters and finding out if they actually have the ability or resources to carry out attacks and start monitoring them more.
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Mar 15, 2019 15:07
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patonthebach posted:I'm pretty fed up with this poo poo and shared the same kind of sentiment after the Quebec shooting, but honestly the next 4chan psycho virgin who wants to get famous on CNN will just a shotgun instead and have similar causalities. And if somehow he cant get a shotgun, he will just rent a uhaul like the other incel guy. The incel guy killed 10 people with his van. The death count in New Zealand so far is 49. If banning guns means cutting mass murder fatalities by four fifths while also getting the related benefits like declines in suicides and a generally less violent society with less murders, it's absolutely worth it.
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Mar 15, 2019 15:11
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Incels and channers should absolutely be tranq'd, chipped, and set back into the wild though
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Mar 15, 2019 15:14
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